Support for Indie Authors discussion

A few months ago I self-published my first novel (a Thriller) on Amazon publishing. Sales are slow now that most of my friends bought or got a book as a present; so nothing unusual. Reviews are another story: On Amazon I have 22 reviews with an average of 4.75 out of 5 stars. On Goodreads I have 11 reviews with an average rating of 4.45 out of 5. Another post here suggested that with these numbers I might catch the interest of a publisher.
Question: do I patiently wait for the 'Knock on the Door' or do I start sending out query letters?

I think you should start with a bit of research.

First, you should think whether seeking a publishing deal is good idea for you - if you have ratings and reviews as well as the time and guts to delve into DYI marketing, you could as well stay self-pub and enjoy the higher % royalties instead of giving up a major chunk to a publisher.

If you really want to get trad-published, then see if agents in your genre are even interested in re-publishing an already-published book. If yes, then it's time to start querying. A publisher would need a massive success in order to seek you out - there's a lot of people trying to get published (despite all the disadvantages) so they're probably swamped with submissions and they're unlikely to notice a book with just 22 reviews on their own.

Either way, good luck.

Publishers are swamped with manuscripts. They don't need to browse Amazon or Goodreads looking for books that have a few reviews in hopes that they can republish them. I am not positive, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but a few of your reviews came from your friends. Right? If so, then no. Publishers aren't going to come looking for you just because your friends liked your book. If you want to be published traditionally, you'll have to go to them.

I understand publishers are not interested in a book that has already been published unless it does very, very well - e.g. Fifty Shades of Grey. In such a case, they would come to you, not the other way around.
The best thing would be to write the next book and approach publishers/agents using the current book as evidence that you've got what it takes. Perhaps by then, the first book will have sold more impressive numbers.
I don't have first knowledge of trad.pubs. I'm Indie all the way.

Alessandra Torre is a very successful writer and her path to success came through Goodreads.

One of her books was nominated by GR for an accolade (forgotten exactly what) and this was seen by a publisher and she was picked up by them.

As Thomas said, you get more from being self-published. If they give you an advance, you'll need to use it to advertise your book since they don't really publicize your books unless you are famous.

Here is another thing, when with a publisher, you are required to do what they want, including what you are writing, they determine the covers, the prices for the books and the number of books you need to sell to keep a contract. Don't even think of changing your style or genre. If you do, you'll need to find another publisher or self-publish.

Without looking it up, what other book(s) did the author of 'Fifty Shades of Grey' write? Chances are that she may not have a contract any longer if her other books aren't selling well.

There are very few Nora Roberts, JK Rowling, Lee Childs, James Patterson or John Grishams out there. If you aren't a top seller, you become a mid lister who needs to keep selling a steady number of books to keep your contract. You can do that on your own and get more income.No matter what route you go, you will need to have a good platform and be able to promote your own books. If you are going to do all that work, why give away a bic chunk of your profits?

So I looked at the book on Amazon. Yes, you have good reviews. But, many of the “reviewers” had never reviewed a book before. That shouts: friend or relative. Others were from people whose only other recommended books were obviously not written on a professional level. That’s part of why, unless you have hundreds of reviews, and sales in the thousands, it’s a waste of time to submit an already published novel to a publisher.

Speaking as someone who owned a critiquing service, one of the absolutely guaranteed rejection points is the classic, “She is blissfully aware of what awaits her.” So having it in the first paragraph is never a good idea. First, because it’s melodramatic. Of course the protagonist doesn’t know what awaits. Who would read a book in which the protagonist doesn’t face the unexpected? But of more importance, it tells the acquiring editor or agent who receives the submission that your presentation technique is 100% narrative—what we call telling—as against being presented in the viewpoint of the protagonist, or, showing.

It’s the most common cause of rejection, and comes because of what I call, The Great Misunderstanding: Because it’s the only writing technique we’re taught in our primary education years, we assume the word “writing,” in the profession we call, Fiction-Writing, refers to that skill. It doesn’t. But our school-days writing, honed through endless reports and essays, is designed to make us proficient in the reports and essays that employers often require.

Professional skills, such as those of of the fiction-writer, are acquired in addition to the general skill-set commonly called, The Three R’s.

It’s not a matter of talent, how well you write, or even the story. And it’s a misunderstanding we nearly all leave our school years with. Of more importance, the solution is simple enough: Add a few of the tricks the pros take for granted and make them yours. And for that, the local library’s fiction-writing section is an invaluable resource.

Fifty Shades of Grey was the first book of a trilogy by E.L. James. I'm not sure she wrote other books, but she doesn't have to. By the time Hollywood offered her a movie contract, newspapers claimed she had sold books worth $95m.

I would recommend doing some marketing of your novel. Right now you're at #818,000 or so in Amazon's sales. That is not going to get an agent's or publisher's attention.

Have you attended any writers' conferences, pitched to an agent? You'll learn a lot at those.

E. L. James is an absolute success story. Wanjiru is right. James doesn't need to.

Check for agents. I know of a few writers who had agents seek them out but that was after proven success, word of mouth, buzz.

Also, there is nothing wrong with being a mid-lister. So what? Most are not even doing that well.

this question may be better for another group. I've been looking at companies that publish and it seems most will take money with little in return. I'd like to find a company that will do what needs to be done. How do I find them? companies you like?

The things a publisher does, like professional-level editing, costs them significant money, which they recoup by sales of the book.

Pull any part of that and the risk goes up to the point where no one in their right mind would invest in doing it.

So naturally, to protect themselves, they're very picky about the manuscripts they accept, and must be.

So...if you want the advantages of traditional publishing you take what come with that, because, as they say, it's their football, so we play by their rules.

But the whole point of self-publishing is to bypass the traditional path. So if self-publishing is your goal you need to make the services of the publisher unnecessary, or buy them, yourself, which means that in addiction to developing professional level writing skills, you need to know the tricks of editing, manuscript prep, and marketing.

It's a package deal.

You've already gotten some really good advice above from the others, so all I'll add is that, yes, you're going to run across amazing success stories from people who started in self-publishing and got a trad deal. Those are outliers, meaning you can't bank on that working for you. Some of those authors have gone right back to indie in the last year or two because it works better for them than traditional, especially with all that's been going on there in the last couple years.

Traditional publishing is a business. They aren't there to help you, to rocket you to success. They are there to make money from your words, period. (Self-publishing should also be looked at through a business model if you're looking for financial success, by the way, but you get to set all the rules because you're taking all the risk.)

As others said, I would do your research and decide which path you want to go for and then go for it-- with an entirely new manuscript if you're going for traditional. And unless you've made a bunch of money (we're talking A LOT of money) and/or gotten a bunch of notice in the media while consistently hitting bestseller lists. If you aren't doing that, it's best not to even mention your self-publishing efforts. And do not query with a book you've already published.

Richard wrote: "this question may be better for another group. I've been looking at companies that publish and it seems most will take money with little in return. I'd like to find a company that will do what need..."

First of all, you are going to be paying big money for the things you can do yourself. They are in it to make money and your $3-5,000 is making them money for doing next to nothing.

Here's the low-down on them, they all charge this huge fee and al you get is a book cover, formatting, a publicity sheet that goes out to places you don't know and a few copies of your book. If you want marketing you are looking at another 5 grand. Don't waste your money. As for paying for their editing, you could do better using your local English teacher.

How do I know this, I made the mistake of thinking they could help me get started. I ended up with a nice book but ten sales that didn't even come close to getting back what I spent on the book. Check out the ALLI site for the ones that are safe to use.

If want traditional, then find an agent (and no, you don't pay them. If they ask for money, you are getting taken) and let them handle the submissions for you. Go to conferences for your genre and get to know the editors that show up at them. Find out what they want and get permission to submit to them.

If you have the money, then use someone like BookBaby who is at least reputable but understand that you will not get that money back in sales unless you are one of the very rare ones who actually makes a profit. Most of those either sell books at conventions or they have a big following in an email list or on social media who actually buy books.

My best advice, get an agent and submit to traditional publishers since you don't sound like you want to take the time to learn how to do it yourself or spend the money on BookBaby and see what you can do with the book afterward.

Most of us on here do use Amazon, Draft2Digital or Smashwords. You can use their numbers or your own ISBNs If you use your own, you will need to come up with an imprint for your own publishing house. If you use their imprint and ISBNs or ASINs for Amazon, you do not get put in libraries or have your book listed in bookstores for ordering.

Bottom line, deicide what you want to do and go for it. Self-publishing isn't all that difficult. The marketing you'll need to learn no matter what route you go or pay someone like Tim Grahl several thousand to do it for you.