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It's perfectly fine to show samples of your writing if you're asking for help. Which you are. And the appropriate place to ask is in the Writers Workshop folder, which is greatly unused and vastly ignored most days.
So, I moved your topic.
Share away.
I believe you should stay on target for young adults, which we know is attractive for producers to turn into series, etc., and 'dark' issues are expected to occur. Reading your description of how you write, I look forward to seeing (reading) your fantasy. Just for the record, I was a big fan of Game of Thrones and I am 70!
Are you writing these books as a series?
Have fun and good luck with your writing!
Phyllis wrote: "I believe you should stay on target for young adults, which we know is attractive for producers to turn into series, etc., and 'dark' issues are expected to occur. Reading your description of how y..."I am writing these books as a series! I currently have two books out and plan and hope for 7-8 books in it.
From this brief sample, it sounds like middle grade. Very dark things can happen, as in fairy tales, but it's how they are presented. A dark YA book would sound less friendly or conversational, less story time, in its approach and feel more immediate and urgent. This is based on the very brief sampling above.
Well, you did ask…Prologue:
A calm, peaceful land as the waves crashed onto the shoreline and withdrew as guillemots zipped above the water
Frankly, it needs work. “Calm and peaceful land?” So no one is arguing? No disputes?
This is way too generic, given that we don’t know the century, the location, the size of the country, or anything meaningful but the name. And since story is about people, not the country, it’s the state of their lives that matters to a reader.
And… the word “peaceful” and waves “crashing” clash.
And… “Calm and peaceful land” is a condition. But adding “as the waves” to it turns it to momentary, which also clashes.
A few ships off in the distance sailed to the coastline
Not to the port, but to the “coastline?” That’s an abstract, the port is real. That aside, all the ships at an unknown distance are sailing toward, not away? Why does a reader care that ships they can’t see, of an unknown size and function, an unknown distance from an unknown country, are sailing toward it’s coastline? You know what they are, and why they're coming, but the reader doesn't, and will be confused as to why you mentioned it. In any case, if the country is small enough that someone standing on the beach can see every ship sailing near the country, that’s three miles, or less, from them. So your “country” is smaller in size than the average city. This makes no sense.
The king, overjoyed, looked out and cheered, ensuing a mass cheer across the kingdom.
So everyone in the kingdom can hear the king cheer, even though he’s inside? And they all know why he’s cheering? Telepathy?
I wish I had better news, and the last thing I want to do is discourage you, but this story isn’t ready for publication. You need to look at this prologue, and the story, from the seat of a reader who knows only what the words mean to them, based on their background, not your intent and personal knowledge. At the moment this is a transcription of you telling the story aloud to an audience. But verbal storytelling is a performance art, so how you tell the story matters as much as what you say. But, none of your performance makes it to the page, so all the reader gets are words that carry no emotion but what’s suggested by punctuation.
One of the best editing tricks I know of is to have the computer read the story aloud. That will allow you to hear it as the reader does, catch awkward phrasing, and lots more. It’s something I recommend to any writer.
I know, given all the work you’ve done, and the time spent, that this is unhappy news. But you did ask about the prologue, and I thought you would want to know.
Jay wrote: "Well, you did ask…Prologue:
A calm, peaceful land as the waves crashed onto the shoreline and withdrew as guillemots zipped above the water
Frankly, it needs work. “Calm and peaceful land?” So ..."
I do appreciate the words and definitely will take what you said to mind and edit the manuscript, but there are some things I feel I need to clear up.
For the waves crashing, it was originally "as the waves came..." but crashing sounded better. It's the way I tried describing how waves normally come and withdraw on a beach.
For the calm and peaceful argument, I mean at the moment there isn't anything going on to disturb the peace. And the kingdom can be described that way as it's typically without trouble. It's like how certain neighborhoods can be typically safe and calm but things can occasionally happen that disrupt the peace. It doesn't necessarily take away the fact that, usually, the area is calm.
The ships sailed to the coastline and themselves are mentioned because they're like a butterfly effect. What's contained on the ships is what causes the conflict in the prologue and, eventually, creates the villain of the story. The ships belongs to vikings, and they don't care to dock at a port. They anchor the ship at the coast and begin their raid. The ships also are within view of the kingdom. They're near it, not to mention that the citizens cheering are standing over the coast, so they can see the nearing ships better.
For the king cheering, I didn't intend him being in the castle, he's on the mainland. He's a king, but he doesn't need to be in his castle 24/7. There are people in the mainland and near the coast who heard his cheer and saw the ships, hence the mass cheer, although I could say ensuing a cheer across the kingdom mainland rather than the kingdom.
I don't see the century being neccesary to mention other than the entire time period of the series being the Middle Ages. This kingdom also isn't the main kingdom of the story, so the size and all those details isn't really necessary either. The only purpose of this kingdom is that it's where the main antagonist was raised and that the raid on it turned him into a villain.
Also, location of the kingdom, as well as Sineria, is explained in the epilogue, and I guess can even be picked up on when Sineria's location is revealed in chapter one, as the prologue kingdom is one of Sineria's neighboring kingdoms. I'll admit the epilogue is pretty childish sounding and nothing like the story, but it's from the MC's point of view, two years after the events of the story. He's still really young, and this is kind of like his journal of events, but its purpose is to establish the world such as the history of Sineria, things that happened after the villain's defeat, dragon species and classes, etc.
Again, I appreciate your input and will definitely use what you said to help this story, but in saying this, I do feel that without reading the entire story, I don't see how one can mention things that are later answered in the book or don't have much of an impact other than setting someone or thing up for the story. With only reading a snippet of the prologue, there's going to be things you don't know, which I understand. However, I will fix grammar and the wording to make it less confusing to readers. Thank you.
I didn't have a problem understanding the sample. I just pictured the king on a balcony and the crowd picks up the cheer. In that sense it was definitely a kid lit story, sort of a Little Amadeus type image.How dark the story becomes, I don't know. The important thing is to stay consistent. For example, in a workshop setting someone had a story sort of A Bug's Life - except at times he turned it into a Stephen King type story - and then flipped back into a kid type story. Doing that confuses the reader - messes up expectations - and well, just doesn't sound right.
For reference: MG reference, read something by Rick Riordan; for YA something by Sarah J. Maas.
Dave wrote: "I'm the author of two out of (maybe and hoping 7-8) Medieval fantasy books. I intend my books to be for young adults, considering that they can get pretty dark in certain parts, especially the seco..."First of all, JK Rowling and all the others took years to learn to write like that, so keep learning. Look up Margie Lawson and get a few of her packets. They are only $22 and worth every penny.
Another thing is to skip the prologue. Over 50% of your readers won't read it. Make it into Chapter 1 and skip to where the story really starts in chapter 2.
If you feel like the writing is 'childish' look at your word choice and sentence structure. Go back and read authors like Tolkien and Paolini and Goodkind. Look at each scene. PIcture it like a video. Rerun that video until it is as good as you can make it, then write what you are seeing and hearing and feeling.
"The kingdom of Saulkton. A calm, peaceful land as the waves crashed onto the shoreline and withdrew as guillemots zipped above the water. A few ships off in the distance sailed to the coastline. The king, overjoyed, looked out and cheered, ensuing a mass cheer across the kingdom. Saulktanians adored seafood, so seeing massive ships coming in made them think of all the fish, crabs, and other creatures they could dine on."
Look closely at this passage. It is all narrative. Telling to be exact, without a good description to put us in the land. There is not real visual in that paragraph. you need a good visual. This isn't flowery, but is more descriptive.
The kingdom of Saulkton sits on the (Name) ocean. (Give here something specific about this land such as: Those who live along the shore in (Give the city name) are fishermen, bringing back their catch to feed those who live below the castle.) The people of ____Kingdom are content, seeing King ____, a just and generous ruler, encouraging them to be prosperous and happy.
On this particular day, King (Name) stood on the parapet of his castle, watching the calm ocean waves breaking on the shoreline in a calming rhythm. Guillemots zipped over the water, looking for a meal while the sandpipers skipped away from the waves. His gaze stopped on the sailors who hadn't gone out this time repairing their nets and sails. Continuing his survey of the town, he watched the people at the busy market, enjoying the colorful clothes and faint laughter he could hear.
The fishing fleet was late returning. Had they gotten caught in the storm he had seen off shore? A quick scan of the horizon had his eyes stopping near the entrance to the port. A line of (#) ships were heading into the port. Finally, the fishing fleet was returning. Tonight there would be a celebration with fresh fish.
He turned to his valet. "Have the horns blown to notify the people the fleet is returning."
The boy took off to do his bidding. As soon as the horns sounded, he heard the people cheering. Like him, they appreciated the fishermen and the fresh seafood they had caught.
The above isn't good and needs more editing, but you get the idea. By changing the wording and using more complex words, it changes it from middle grade to young adult. It is also more active. Without actually saying it, you can imagine the castle as the highest place in the town. You know that the city is a port and fishing is one of the major industries of the town. With it being a port, you can also infer that there is trade with other places, so you would expect other ships other than the fishing fleet to be coming into the port.
Notice how I changed to the king's POV in the second paragraph. Even though it is still 'telling' you are there with him, looking out to sea. Without a person, you are up in the sky with the camera and just looking around, not bringing your readers into the story. By bringing that camera in closer, you bring the reader into the story. (It took me almost 3 years to learn that one thing, so don't feel bad.) The one line of speech adds to that feeling of being there.
The last paragraph leaves it open for the transition into the twist...it isn't the fleet but nasty guys coming into the port.
Don't copy mine, but go back and work on the description of the kingdom and the city. Picture it. Write it in adult words, using a more complicated sentence structure.
This is what editing is all about. You may want to start by describing the overall kingdom before getting to the city itself. The key is bringing your reader into that setting. Introduce your king, making him a person with feelings, concerns and making him a living person. Have him talk. I used a lot of your words, so there is nothing flowery about it.
Go back and edit that first paragraph and post what you did. It should be at least 4 or 5 paragraphs with verbal photographs of what the king is seeing. You can do this. It just takes practice and a whole lot of time.
What most new authors don't understand is that actually writing the story is 10% of writing. Editing is the other 90%. You may spend a month or longer editing one scene since it is in the editing that all the magic happens.
It took JK Rowling 5 years to write that first book. Dan Brown took 15 year to write his first one. James Patterson does at least 10 rewrites on every last one of his books. It took Tolkien 12 years to write the Lord of the Rings series. And how long have you been writing? It takes time. Read a lot of books in genre you write in. Keep note cards of what stands out for you. Look at what draws you into the story, then try to do that in your own voice, using words you like and doing it in a way that you would want to read it.
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The only criticism I have is it reads more like a travelogue than a novel. Bring it to life. Don't tell us what the kingdom is like, show us.
I mean at the moment there isn't anything going on to disturb the peace.And this is the crux of the problem. You’re letting your intent shape the images as you read. But intent doesn’t make it to the page. For you, every line is a pointer to images, backstory, action, and all the things in your mind that give context to the words. So as you write, it’s shaped by that knowledge. But the result doesn’t provide that knowledge to the reader. For them, every line is a pointer to images, backstory, action, and all the things in your mind that give context to the words.
It’s an easy trap to fall into because when you read it, having that knowledge the story works, perfectly. That’s one of the reasons writing in the protagonist’s viewpoint, rather than that of the external observer who is reporting and explaining, is so widely used. It forces us to perceive the scene as the protagonist does, so as we write we focus on what matters to them in the moment they call “now.” That eliminates talking about waves that no one is the story is paying attention to. It gets us out of overview mode and makes the action seem to be happening to to the reader in real-time.
A quote by E. L. Doctorow that I find myself using more and more, sums it up nicely: “Good writing is supposed to evoke sensation in the reader. Not the fact that it’s raining, but the feeling of being rained upon.”
So has this happened to anybody and how can I change this?
Edit: I just found out it's fine to post samples of a work when asking for help, so I copied and pasted the first paragraph from my prologue and first chapter to help explain the question.
Prologue: The kingdom of Saulkton. A calm, peaceful land as the waves crashed onto the shoreline and withdrew as guillemots zipped above the water. A few ships off in the distance sailed to the coastline. The king, overjoyed, looked out and cheered, ensuing a mass cheer across the kingdom. Saulktanians adored seafood, so seeing massive ships coming in made them think of all the fish, crabs, and other creatures they could dine on.
Yet after this is where things begin to take a dark turn. I'll just say the ships don't belong to the kingdom and things go wrong quick, and things that would probably want parents of middle schoolers keeping this book out of their children's hands. Nothing sexual, but just some destruction of both living things and inanimate objects... viking style.
Chapter one: Centuries ago in the Medieval time period, a kingdom known for all things great stood about in the lands beyond mountains and great lakes: Sineria. It was one of the most well known kingdoms of that time. Located in Eastern Europe, formerly the northwest many years back until epidemics and powerful invaders attacked, Sineria retained its beauty that it was known for. Astounding coasts, woodlands that stretched for miles, mountain chains, and even a small, jungle-like portion were a few of the geographical beauties of Sineria. Beavers, otters, marmots, golden eagles, Eurasian lynxes, snakes, wolves, foxes, badgers, and of course, dragons of all types, along with a multitude of other animals, called Sineria home, attracting hunters and animal viewers alike.
It's fairly peaceful from here, but chapter two and onward, when the story really kicks in, is when things can began to look a bit grim.