The Sword and Laser discussion

I found The Fold to be predictable and little tedious. It wasn't a badly constructed book, just building a "mystery" on territory so well worn as to be blindingly obvious. (Modest spoilers follow). (view spoiler)[

Maybe I've just been reading SF too long to appreciate it. Niven did "close alternate reality" in his early stories. Star Trek had Mirror Mirror and its followups. The topic appeared in innumerable space opera novels. The concept goes back to at least What Mad Universe and likely well before that.

The "wrong wife" bit from the intro was done in a similar book at least three decades past and is so similar as to be a direct lift. Tribute? Or did the author really not know it? It's been so long I don't recall author or title, but the setup was the same. The MC went through a portal, or perhaps piloted a vehicle, and had a rough time of it. On return he went home with a woman that he had been trying to romance. She was getting in bed with him before he realized that she had more familiarity with him than he could have hoped. From there they both came to the easy realization that he was from a close but not identical universe.

I fail to see a mystery at all. The Star-Trek-loving character should have seen one, maybe two instances of people seeming out of place and said "fuck me! We're in 'Mirror Mirror.'" Her later statement "I'm Thomas Riker" makes it even worse because she should have seen it from the getgo. The whole plot is a mystery without any mysteriousness.

And then there's the trope. The worst trope in SF. A trope that should die a nasty brutish ugly death. I refer, of course, to the "Nerd Gets The Cheerleader" trope. It is hurltastic! I had enough the first time on Deep Space Nine when Nog gets the Dabo Girl. Then Star Trek did it AGAIN when Barkley winds up with Deanna Troi. Riker I could at least see. Worf, silly but understandable. Barkley? No. How about we have a new, different trope: Nerd finds girl like himself. Both forgive minor flaws and develop a deep love. It's one of the things Ready Player One did right.

The Lovecraftian thing at the end was bizarre but modestly interesting. It didn't follow from the previous plot. I expected creeping horror and perhaps a techno threat. Nope, it's barbarians right out of Conan. O....kay.

The author clearly has some decent writing skill, but I'm arsed if I know why he proceeded as he did. Decent pacing, if the mystery weren't completely blindingly obvious from the first "clue." Fairly good characterization, except for the "Nerd Fantasy" as above. It's like a good meal served on a table next to a loud, clanking kitchen, so you can't even really enjoy the good parts.

I enjoyed the "nerd alternate history" bit where Star Trek ended after two seasons and Assignment Earth took over. The book could have used a whole lot more of that.

I saw a warning that there's a kicker at the end, and there is...kinda. I expected something a little more intense, say (view spoiler)[ that a member of the team knew all along and was trying to trigger the connection to the Lovecraftian world. Arthur, perhaps. (hide spoiler)]

I see others enjoyed the book, and it's not exactly bad so much as it is thoroughly predictable. That took away any tension and reduced the enjoyment. (hide spoiler)]

I can’t gainsay any of that; solid points. I still liked it fine, though.

I may have dinged it harder had I not just read (view spoiler)[the alternate universe book A Peculiar Peril immediately before this one. That genuinely terrible book has all of these faults plus a dozen more.

I’ve actually read quite a few multiverse books lately; I feel like it’s the new “in thing.” The Space Between Worlds, The Midnight Library, The Ten Thousand Doors of January, and Dark Matter, among others. (hide spoiler)]

(Although the worst trope is “woke up without a memory.” Yuck.)

The twist was predictable, but I still really enjoyed it.

I didn't find the (view spoiler)[Lovecraftian thing strange as the first book in the series has a long scene in that alternate universe with the monsters. Also the Man and Woman in Black at the end were major characters from book 1. So I knew that they weren't anything sinister. (hide spoiler)]

Tassie Dave wrote: "I didn't find the [spoilers removed]"

I KNEW IT!

Trike wrote: "Tassie Dave wrote: "I didn't find the [spoilers removed]"

I KNEW IT!"

Which one?

All. 👍🏻

John (Taloni) wrote: "(view spoiler)[Nerd Gets The Cheerleader (hide spoiler)]"

This one got to me a bit too. I suppose wish-fulfillment is one thing, but (view spoiler)[ the "damaged" girl is literally switched out for a upgraded model that is more into the main character. Felt a little creepy. (hide spoiler)]

When it comes to the rest of this book, this is why I always think raves about books being "compelling" are a little suspicious. That just means the author nailed the plot/pacing. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the characters, or the world-building, or the writing were also exemplary. There was a night where I just decided to finish the book because I wouldn't be able to sleep until it was done. I was compelled to read it, but I'm not really sure that it was good.

Agreed, entirely. I gave this 3 stars and I'm thinking of moving that down to 2. Aside from all of the points Taloni raises in his spoiler protected bit, the "MC is the smartest guy on the planet AND he has perfect memory" is cringeworthy. Also, for a guy who supposedly can pick up almost anything in any field very quickly (seriously??) he's frankly pretty slow to pick up on obvious things.

Come on, I knew in the first chapter the issue with the door. I get that our MC hasn't seen that event at that point in time, but it's pretty apparent early on for anyone who's read a lot of SF.

Other points - no government is going to pour hundreds of millions into a project where the scientists won't share anything about how they're doing what they are. And I don't like the mashup of 80s Benford-style SF (Brilliant Scientists make breakthrough that will change everything but there's A Problem) with (view spoiler)[Lovecraftian horror (hide spoiler)] in large part because the latter feels like Cline is grabbing onto a trend.

This is one of those books that I didnt object to as I read it because it was unchallenging, middle of the road SF that filled a need for something to read when I wasn't in the mood to pay attention to an intricate plot, etc. As I've thought about it more, I'd be pissed if I'd bought this for $13. Since I got it from the library as an ebook, though, I just hit the Return Early button on the library app.

I DNF’ed this pretty quickly as I just found the characters flat and the story uninteresting. Reading the spoiler-protected stuff above, I’m glad I quit when I did as I think I’d have found it all really annoying, especially the (view spoiler)[ nerd-guy-gets-the-cheerleader thing (hide spoiler)] which is a trope I HATE.

I enjoyed the story. It was fast-paced, funny, and nutty. Light weird fiction! Just what I needed!

I enjoyed the first two thirds of the book, primarily because at that stage it was a tech(no) / science mystery whodunnit / whatdunnit, but I struggled with the final third (view spoiler)[as the whole Lovecraftian horror show has never floated my boat (hide spoiler)]

It was a 5 star read for me up to that point, but in the end I gave it a generous 4. Although I may lower it 3. Hmmm

Interesting point about the (view spoiler)[nerd gets cheerleader trope - I wasn't even aware that was a "thing" - the main point I took away from that was the continuing plot reveal about alternate universes. (hide spoiler)]

Now that kind of commentary and insight that is going to lower it to 3 stars for me!

Leesa wrote: "I enjoyed the story. It was fast-paced, funny, and nutty. Light weird fiction! Just what I needed!"

Agreed! I can see the points John (Taloni) made but I don't need every book to be unique. I don't need it to be special. I need it to be engaging (and lately, not depressing). I enjoyed the romp. Perfect? Absolutely not. But a fun read.

Agree with the agreement ;)
Lots of flaws with the book, but I still enjoyed the read.

I dunno why it took me so long to figure this out, but apparently I can be convinced to like any book with inter (or sometimes intra) character banter. The Fold wasn't as good for me in that respect as, say, Gideon the Ninth, but I still found enough to tip me into liking it.

“Bob,” Olaf said without looking at the flatscreen, “how long has it been since I asked you to shut up?” “A few hours, at least.” “That explains why it’s worn off."


I also giggled at the bits about TV shows. (Most of which will seem suuuuper dated really soon.)

"Marty really likes it, but it just seems like nothing but boobs and snow and blood. And the frozen zombie things."

“What’s Star Trek?”
There was silence on the main floor.
“You are fucking kidding me."

Yeah some of the book was good. I think the degree to which the tropes will bother you is partly how many times you've read them before and that's going to vary. If you've really SF for a long time, more of this telegraphs itself. If not, it's likely less obvious.

This was one of those unchallenging, meat and potatoes reads. That's fine, especially given that I borrowed it so I didnt have that 'damn, I spent $13 on this...' overhead.

Rick wrote: "Yeah some of the book was good. I think the degree to which the tropes will bother you is partly how many times you've read them before and that's going to vary. If you've really SF for a long time..."

Yeah - it's a pretty pulpy story, which, on the one hand, is exactly what I probably needed right now. On the other hand though, I did check this book out from the library. If I had spent $13-15 on the hardcover and we weren't in the middle of a Global Pandemic, this would probably have gotten traded in to Powells or another book store on my next visit.

I'm 100 pages in and my first reaction was, so a tesseract?

Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I'm 100 pages in and my first reaction was, so a tesseract?"

I had a similar thought 😂

terpkristin wrote: "Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I'm 100 pages in and my first reaction was, so a tesseract?"

I had a similar thought 😂"

You always remember your first.

*humblebrag* As someone who dated above his league in high school, I can attest that some attractive women do indeed like nerds with offbeat senses of humor. Or at least they did *cough cough*-years ago... I feel very sorry for anyone trying to date today, not matter what their age. So if Snape can get the girl, more power to him.

(view spoiler)[The Lovecraftian horror, I really should have seen coming. It surprised me anyway, and I remember that's where the book soured a bit for me. I haven't read the other books in this series, but the whole using-math-from-a-century-old-madman-tome really ought to have warned me. I feel like the conundrum of how to shut the door off and the environmental ramifications of its existence could have been threat enough. We see enough of those stories too in basically every franchise, but the reason we do is they're so interesting. Everyone loves a black swan. (hide spoiler)]

As for the genreblindness of the characters, well, that's par for the course. We all like to think we'd know, but we don't know that we'd know. People can rationalize a lot, especially when they feel threatened by outside forces like the government, superiors, peers, etc. Why make everyone think you're crazy because you can't find your office? It felt odd, but not deal-breaking.
I'm also reminded of an episode of Fraggle Rock, where Uncle Matt discovers an elevator and rationalizes that seeing a door close and open on a new world must mean his perception of the world has been altered, that he has gained a greater understanding and possibly attained enlightenment, and not that he has actually moved. Fraggle Rock was deep.

I still enjoyed this book, it's fluff and I tend to like fluff. I'm just glad to finally get my head in the game enough to finish a book before month-end!

Grimothni wrote: "As for the genreblindness of the characters, well, that's par for the course. We all like to think we'd know, but we don't know that we'd know."

That’s a good point. I’d guess 99% of characters in zombie stories have never heard of zombies before.

+1 for Fraggle Rock ref.

Trike wrote: "That’s a good point. I’d guess 99% of characters in zombie stories have never heard of zombies before."

I always hate this. Endless terms like walking dead, lurkers, and rotters, but never zombie. Not even voodoo zombies.

Phillip wrote: "Trike wrote: "That’s a good point. I’d guess 99% of characters in zombie stories have never heard of zombies before."

I always hate this. Endless terms like walking dead, lurkers, and rotters, but..."

Or, why "Zombieland" was delightfully refreshing

I found it derivative, but almost self-aware of it...which was doubly annoying.

Mirror-Universe trek references, "You're not my wife" intro....then that ending.

Enjoyable, but instantly forgettable. I gave it 3 stars.

Well, Science Fiction works in general don't seem to have ever had science fiction literature in their past. Nobody ever says "Who would have guessed, those science fiction writers of the 20th century actually predicted the hyper space correctly. This is so strange!"

Are there non-genre blind science fiction stories that recognize how close they are to stuff from old novels? Besides Red Shirts?

Jan wrote: "Are there non-genre blind science fiction stories that recognize how close they are to stuff from old novels? Besides Red Shirts?"

The Bobiverse (We Are Legion (We Are Bob), etc.) very knowingly references sci-fi and other pop culture.

Almost forgot! My wife loved the first episode of "Resident Alien" and asked me to watch it again with her. I found it okay. About halfway through he references his mission for the umpteenth time and I say (modest ep 1 spoiler)(view spoiler)[ "which is of course to wipe out humanity." (hide spoiler)] End of the episode comes, she turns to me and says "how did you know?" I mean, it's a standard TV-style plot twist.

Jan wrote: "Well, Science Fiction works in general don't seem to have ever had science fiction literature in their past. Nobody ever says "Who would have guessed, those science fiction writers of the 20th cent..."

For me, it's less about re-using ideas and more about execution. To use another Scalzi work as an example, Old Man's War takes the idea of transferring consciousness from an old body to a new one and riffs on it. That idea had been done a lot in past SF. But JS expanded it a bit with the idea that Earth had to field a defense force and it did that with old people. That alone is a decently interesting idea and not as common. Then he added his now typical snarky wit and the result was an entertaining novel.

The Fold didn't seem like Cline was aware of the things it was reusing and the writing itself didnt elevate the book. I think Harold, above, nailed my feelings on it - "Enjoyable, but instantly forgettable" and like him, I tossed it a 3 star rating. It's fine. It's just not special in anyway and not a book I see myself ever re-reading.

I enjoyed it as a lighthearted romp, basically an updated Heinlein juvenile with added snark and pop references

Rick wrote: "Also, for a guy who supposedly can pick up almost anything in any field very quickly (seriously??) he's frankly pretty slow to pick up on obvious things. ."

This was this thing that made the book a two star for me. There was never a point where I found the protagonist anything other than intensely irritating, and his know-it-all-ness rocked the suspension of disbelief that was just fine with portals and the like
And yet made some unfathomably stupid decisions. I mean, perhaps I’m misremembering (Ha!) but I’m sure he was the one who came up with the idea that (view spoiler)[people around the fold were powering it. Then he gets a bunch of soldier types to go in there! To add insult to injury, he tells them absolutely no information about what they would be facing, provides no instructions or plans at all. He’s pretty much single-handedly responsible for all their deaths. And THEN it occurs to him the extra people made things worse. Maybe I missed something but hadn’t he already worked that out? (hide spoiler)]

Once we got beyond explaining how awesome the protagonist was (nearly half way through the book, unfortunately) I did start enjoying it, and it was generally a fun read, but not really for me.