Tournament of Books discussion

holding place for the discussion on eventual match-up (TBD) of June 2021 Camp TOB

Here is the commentary for Week One (feel free to delete if this is in the wrong place) - I really enjoyed Lauren's deep knowledge on the internet novel!

Lauren had a lot of interesting books to recommend. Does anyone know here Twitter handle (is it still called a handle?!)

I can't get into Disqus so I will end up being a lurker (the pswd reset has been NOTHING but frustration; I've been trying...)

in Instagram she is @readmoresteinbeck

Yes, great commentary by Lauren today! I loved the discussion, and it made me appreciate the novel more (which isn’t hard to do because I didn’t love it in the first instance).

Care wrote: "Lauren had a lot of interesting books to recommend. Does anyone know here Twitter handle (is it still called a handle?!)

I can't get into Disqus so I will end up being a lurker (the pswd reset ha..."

ah, what the heck Disqus? Care, I will miss your comments over there.

Oh, no, Care! Wait a day or two and try again? It won't be the same without you...

I could only stand about 4 pages of No One. Excited for Detransition and Klara, though! I haven't started the other 3 just yet.

So far, I've read Peaces, Klara, and No One (etc.), and didn't think much of any of them, except maybe the second half of No One. I'm almost half-way through Detransition, Baby, and I'm desperately hoping that, like No One ..., it has some drastic change in the middle and I'm not going to be reading another 150 pp. like the first 150 pp. But I pretty much know I will.

I have to pin all my hopes on Whereabouts and Everyone Knows Your Mother is a Witch.

I have high hopes for the witchy mama.

Me, too -- but I'm just hoping I get it in time. It's still "on order" at both of my library systems.

Ellen wrote: "So far, I've read Peaces, Klara, and No One (etc.), and didn't think much of any of them, except maybe the second half of No One. I'm almost half-way through Detransition, Baby, and I'm desperately..."

I've started Peaces and will spend some of my evening talking myself into returning to it... it just didn't grab me in the first 50 pages.

Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I've started Peaces and will spend some of my evening talking myself into returning to it... it just didn't grab me in the first 50 pages."

I know I'm not the right reader for Peaces (I don't really get Oyeyemi in general) but I stopped reading it. Was I supposed to understand what was going on? Why was there a mongoose? Is the book all over the place, or am I just not smart enough to weave the pieces? I'm looking forward to the Camp discussion to help me put it together, if it does I'll pick it up again before the second week.

I thought Detransition, Baby was all over the place too, and there were definitely parts I didn't enjoy. I think it could have used more editing and more story (although those could just be personal preferences.) But I'm glad I read it, it was a good character study and study of gender and motherhood, and it should be a good discussion.

Elizabeth wrote: "Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I've started Peaces and will spend some of my evening talking myself into returning to it... it just didn't grab me in the first 50 pages."

I know I'm not the right re..."

I'm not an Oyeyemi reader either, and I had to push myself to keep going. The going wasn't painful since I find her writing pretty frictionless, but still, I kept wondering why I was still reading. It was kind of like a painting with beautiful colors, but not much else. But by the halfway point I began to feel some plot momentum, and the characters felt pleasantly familiar, so that kept me going.

OOoooooo! fun stuff here today. AND at the Summercamp Campfire...

I'm only 14% in on Klara and am over it already. UGH. I just might have to admit -- this being my 4th Ishiguro -- that he is NOT my author. I can't stand his style and tone and am itching to DNF. I do not care for Klara nor Josie. UGH.

I have never read anything by Oyeyemi and this scares me.

Care wrote: "OOoooooo! fun stuff here today. AND at the Summercamp Campfire...

I'm only 14% in on Klara and am over it already. UGH. I just might have to admit -- this being my 4th Ishiguro -- that he is NOT m..."

Can I retract the double-UGH? such a horridity.

Care wrote: "OOoooooo! fun stuff here today. AND at the Summercamp Campfire...

I'm only 14% in on Klara and am over it already. UGH. I just might have to admit -- this being my 4th Ishiguro -- that he is NOT m..."

No, keep the UGHs. I understand completely. There are some authors where I have read a few of them (these are Important Literature Writers even), and I am okay with not reading any more from them... I can't read everything... and Ishiguro is one of the writers on this list. Just not for me. So I will read Klara because of the tournament but I'm not looking forward to it. Same with Peaces if I can get it in time. I read 'Gingerbread' and Oyeyemi just has this crazy dreamlike style where the pieces to me are better than the whole... which never really make sense. (Also, its interesting the name of the book is 'Peaces' and I just said "pieces"....maybe there is something in that...) So I'm wondering if ALL of Oyeyemi's books are like this or she just might go on my not-for-me list. I have a handful of her books on the tbr to find this out though!

C wrote: "Care wrote: "OOoooooo! fun stuff here today. AND at the Summercamp Campfire...

I'm only 14% in on Klara and am over it already. UGH. I just might have to admit -- this being my 4th Ishiguro -- tha..."

So I read this from the review of someone who does actually seem to get Oyeyemi, and it helped this make a bit more sense. It's intriguing, and maybe brilliant. But I don't know that it makes for enjoyable reading.

"Early in the novel, narrator Otto details the ‘four different philosophies of enjoying’ a marionette show, all of which also make for succinct metaphors of the ways someone would read a novel. There are those ‘whose attention is reserved solely for the actions of the marionette;’ those who look at or for the puppet master; those who watch the faces of the other audience members; and, finally, ‘those who follow the strings and the strings alone.’ Now, as a metaphor for reading, all of these are valuable and it’s worth considering which you are. As a string watcher myself, I found the performance of Peaces highly enjoyable because the way she crafts sentences and sets them on a winding and chaotic path without ever tangling the strings is nearly miraculous to behold.

’[W]hen I look at matters in those light...as arrangements rather than relationships, the primary movers start to look...familiar’

This description of attempting to understand the novel’s events also verbalizes some of Oyeyemi’s narrative techniques. It is fascinating how she is able to orchestrate the elements of the novel and suddenly reorganize and re-juxtapose them to unveil a different impression of everything like a slight of hand trick. The slightest change in string pulling for the maximum effect.

Oyeyemi’s magic act on the strings makes this a novel that is tough to pin down. Oyeyemi as puppeteer seems to embody this as a major element in her ouveur. Novels like Mr. Fox weave and reinvent themselves metafictionality, her books are populated with shapeshifters, ghosts, and marionettes, her narratives have dual metaphors, etc. All of these nuances create a slippery and shifting landscape of meaning. Her work is often couched in the theories and traditions of fairy tales but set in modern day, such as the gingerbread house of Hansel and Gretel being a factory that makes gingerbread as part of a larger statement on slavery and Brexit in Gingerbread. Here, enigmatism seems to be the primary function of the novel, turning a mirror back onto itself as if attempting the improbable task of understanding something not meant to be fully understood."

Elizabeth wrote: "C wrote: "Care wrote: "OOoooooo! fun stuff here today. AND at the Summercamp Campfire...

I'm only 14% in on Klara and am over it already. UGH. I just might have to admit -- this being my 4th Ishig..."

Yeah, Oyeyemi is probably way too genius for many of us (definitely me) to figure out. haha.

Thank you everyone for the kind thoughts on response to my disinclination of Ishiguro and my hesitation (dread?) of Oyeyemi. However, I made it through Stephen Florida so maybe I can be appreciative of style and genius.

Elizabeth wrote: "C wrote: "Care wrote: "OOoooooo! fun stuff here today. AND at the Summercamp Campfire...

I'm only 14% in on Klara and am over it already. UGH. I just might have to admit -- this being my 4th Ishig..."

Reading this review, I'm glad I bailed! Hahahaha.

Hey, I made a comment on today's page but because I added some links it's stuck in limbo. Any tips on expediting the process?

Bob wrote: "Hey, I made a comment on today's page but because I added some links it's stuck in limbo. Any tips on expediting the process?"
Repost without the links; then if necessary, delete your earlier post with the links. Otherwise your post will be in limbo until the Camp moderator is able to review and approve it.

Ok, I've read 5/6. I totally didn't get the Oyeyemi; the only other book I'd read by her (Boy, Snow, Bird), I hadn't liked very much, but I understood it. I was kind of appalled by the Ishiguro -- to me it read like he had plagiarized his own work, the excellent Never Let Me Go -- felt that the first half of No One Is Talking About This was only marginally redeemed by the second half, and truly disliked Detransition, Baby, while being afraid of being judged as anti-trans if I express that dislike. Whereabouts, while hardly earth-shattering, is my favorite so far, but only in comparison. So what's the deal? Why these five books?

I am thrilled that I've just gotten Everyone Knows Your Mother Is a Witch from the library, since it was on order and I was afraid it wouldn't come in in time, so soon I will be a completist. But it had better be damned good to make up for the others. Sheesh.

Not participating this year in the summer book club, but I seem to recall that for the most part, the summer books are generally sort of meh. The only one I recall being excellent was "Marlena" from 2017.

Kyle wrote: "Not participating this year in the summer book club, but I seem to recall that for the most part, the summer books are generally sort of meh. The only one I recall being excellent was "Marlena" fro..."

Sharks in the Time of Saviors and Fever Dream are both excellent summer winners. :)

But I mostly agree about this year. I did like Klara and the Sun quite a bit, but DNF-ing "No one..." and Whereabouts. Fingers crossed for "Mother is a Witch"

Reading Everyone Knows Your Mother Is a Witch now. I find it slower moving than I thought it would be. Have only Whereabouts after this. So far Detransition, Baby is my favorite.

Ah, I forgot that Sharks was a winner! Yeah, that one rocked. Fever Dream was also very unsettling, and succeeded at what it was intended to do - even if it wasn't one of my favorites.

Different strokes...right? Detransition Baby is probably my favorite so far. I recognize it is messy in ways but none of that bothered me when reading.

I am a fan of Ishiguro and enjoyed Klara and the Sun, though it isn't as powerful as earlier works, I agree. I actively hated No One is Talking About This. Despite enjoying the book, I've already forgotten most of Whereabouts (which I only read last week).

Currently I am reading Every One Knows Your Mother Is a Witch and I appreciate the sly tone of it. But I'm only 10% in. I am waiting for my hold to come in for Peaces but I haven't liked any Oyeyemi novel that I've yet encountered. I don't gel with her fabulist writing style.

Darn it, I just screwed up and didn't claim an ebook of Whereabouts from the library. Now I'm back third in line. Looks like I will also have to purchase Peaces and Everyone Knows if I want to read these. Our library system doesn't have them. I really miss being in New England - the library system is SO GOOD. Not so much Kansas unless I'm missing how to navigate!

Thanks for listening. I'm just venting a little frustration... Have a great weekend and safe/fun/thoughtful June Nineteenth.

Darn. Now I'm sorry that my library DID get those books in time, or I could have sent them to you. I've just gotten Everyone Knows.

Ruthiella wrote: "Different strokes...right?..."

That's what makes this so much fun! While I was disappointed with No One is Talking About This, in no small part due to how much I loved Priestdaddy, I'm really enjoying Detransition, Baby, which I hadn't expected to like, based on comments here.

And my favorite is Whereabouts, that gorgeously written quiet gem.

I blame us voters...I'm currently reading Great Circle and loving it, and I know that was on the longlist for summer camp. Wondering know which others that didn't get voted in are also gems?

I loved Whereabouts too! So quiet and nuanced and sad. That last scene really got me. I’m not going to pass on sharing the snacks on the train after reading that (those of you who have read it know what I mean). I LOVED Lahiri’s earlier work in English, and the newer work in Italian is so much sparer, but it’s beautiful in it own way.

Ellen wrote: "Darn. Now I'm sorry that my library DID get those books in time, or I could have sent them to you. I've just gotten Everyone Knows."

Thanks Ellen - I realized that my library has two systems to search (I'm still new and learning) -- I do think I might be able to get all three of the books I need!

Heather wrote: "I blame us voters...I'm currently reading Great Circle and loving it, and I know that was on the longlist for summer camp. Wondering know which others that didn't get voted in are also gems?"

I think Great Circle might have been left out because it's so long. Maybe we'll see it again?

Heather wrote: "I blame us voters...I'm currently reading Great Circle and loving it, and I know that was on the longlist for summer camp. Wondering know which others that didn't get voted in are also gems?"

Oh, I'm hoping you can help me out with my question on this book (there's no Q&A section for its page on Goodreads, like most books have). I was listening to the audio version of it from the library about a month ago and I came across a part where the main character (Marian I think?) bragged about getting "two scalps and some buffalo(?)" from a raid on a local tribe. Yikes! I listened ahead a bit to see if that was addressed, if it was actually an antagonist that said that, or was reckoned with in some way, but the story just moved on and I was too upset to continue listening. It seemed the author was glorifying/normalizing white settlers massacring the Indigenous tribes in the area and I needed to step back from that book. Maybe I confused something? Maybe it's addressed in a respectful way later? Let me know if you noticed this and can help with my alarm on that part. I think it was at the 1/6 mark on audio, so maybe somewhere between pages 80-110? I was otherwise enjoying it, so I'm willing to return to the book if I can find that was handled better than it seemed during my first read/listen. Thanks!

Lauren wrote: "Heather wrote: "I blame us voters...I'm currently reading Great Circle and loving it, and I know that was on the longlist for summer camp. Wondering know which others that didn't get voted in are a..."

I haven't read Great Circle but I have the ebook, so did a search. This is where scalps are mentioned...It's not Marian, it's a character from a story in a section titled "An Incomplete History of Sitting-in-the-Water-Grizzly.” I don't see it coming up again:

"Again she walks through the forest. She doesn’t know where her people are, exactly. They take a bit of finding. With a gun she took from the white men, she hunts for food. Prowling among the trees, she imagines herself a warrior, and an idea presents itself. More than an idea—a truth, unnoticed before.

It turns out, she announces when she has rejoined the Kootenai, that white men have supernatural powers, and they have used those powers to change her into a man.

She starts dressing as a man. This man gives himself a new name: Gone-to-the-Spirits. He hunts and fishes, refuses to do women’s work. He gets a horse to go with his gun, invites himself along on a raid. The warriors tell him to go away, but he follows, camps in the darkness just outside their circle. In battle, he takes three horses and two scalps. Not bad at all.”

Elizabeth wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Heather wrote: "I blame us voters...I'm currently reading Great Circle and loving it, and I know that was on the longlist for summer camp. Wondering know which others that didn't get..."

Yes, what Elizabeth found is correct. It's an interlude in the book (not involving any of the main characters) about a Native American who starts living as a man. Pretty sure the scalps in question belong to white men.

Heather wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Heather wrote: "I blame us voters...I'm currently reading Great Circle and loving it, and I know that was on the longlist for summer camp. Wondering know which othe..."

Oh ok - thank you both for clearing that up for me!

Someone in Litsy posted the Roxane Gay syllabus for Detransition, Baby and I found it very useful, even if you just read the first review listed!

I am still finishing it so have been avoiding the discussion online.

Am I missing it, or is today's installment not yet posted?

Alison wrote: "Am I missing it, or is today's installment not yet posted?"

I don't see it yet! Sometimes it's a bit later.

Thanks! Honestly, so am I, usually.

Alison wrote: "Thanks! Honestly, so am I, usually."

It's up! And when I say "later" I just mean at a later time than usual. The ToB isn't an official job of anyone, so I don't expect it at any actual official time. The ToB is a privilege. :D

C wrote: "Alison wrote: "Thanks! Honestly, so am I, usually."

It's up! And when I say "later" I just mean at a later time than usual. The ToB isn't an official job of anyone, so I don't expect it at any act..."

I agree whole-heartedly.

Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "Someone in Litsy posted the Roxane Gay syllabus for Detransition, Baby and I found it very useful, even if you just read the first review listed!

I am still finishing it so have been avoiding the ..."

I love The New Yorker review listed in the syllabus - especially since I DNF'ed the book at page 35. The story sounded great, but there was something about Reese's angsty, Millennial voice that turned me off. I can't decide if the review makes me want to try again or not, since it gives me all that's great about the book in a small, tidy package. I also wish publisher descriptions of debut novels didn't use the word 'whipsmart'. To me, it's become code for exactly that angsty, Millennial voice.