Reading 1001 discussion
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Q2 part 2: The Children's Book
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Part 2 Questions:1. As things unfold, which scenes/references to history caught your attention? Have you noticed references to any real figures/authors so far?
The artists Beardsley and the writer Oscar Wilde were the stand outs for me but there were quite a few references to the Arts and Crafts movement practitioners also. It is interesting that both Beardsley and Oscar Wilde were considered decadent at the time.
2. A number of the adult characters are artists in one way or another; many of them - through their art or their actions - cause damage to the other people in their lives. Discuss how the artists in the novel both create and destroy. And on that note, does Olive do the right thing in apprenticing Philip to Benedict Fludd?
Many of the artists/writers in the book are "creators" of whole worlds. Olive certainly creates not only her odd children's books but also a strangely unrealistic world for her children to grow up in. Herbert Methley, we are lead to believe, although it is never explicitly stated, has ruined not only his wife's life by asking her to love him through his infidelities but also by giving up her children. He also did major damage to Elsie. Benedict Fludd is clearly someone who is not in control of all his impulses and living with that has clearly damaged his wife and children and has kept Philip on edge when he really just wants to create.
3. In an essay she wrote for the London Times, Byatt wrote, "There is a strong case to be made that the Edwardians enjoyed school stories, magical tales, and tales of children alone in landscapes - woodland camps, secret expeditions - because they were themselves reluctant to grow up." How do the adults in the novel reflect this idea? What distinction do the characters make between childhood and adulthood? What distinction is Byatt making through the novel?
Byatt clearly draws lines between those who care for others (adults) and those who care for themselves (childish) but then, in this section, she has begun to muddle that up. Violet is maybe not just the care taker of the children. Prosper may have hid his own motives for helping Imogen from himself. Dorothy, the grown up one, the practical one, is swept away by the world making of her father. Tom, is Peter Pan and no one seems to be telling him that he has to make a choice about what he wants to do even if it is just to be a games keeper. The camps, theaters, educational seminars, mid-summer night festivities also reflects an era when people actually had the time and money to participate in such activities....the carefree days of the early 1900's were underwritten by a working class that was not participating in these activities. Further Byatt steps in and talks to us, the readers, about the future in a very interesting way. We know WWI is on the horizon, but she also gives us glimpses of her characters when they are just a bit older and how they transform when they are no longer young and the world has aged into a different era.
4. On the other hand, Dorothy largely acts as an adult before her time- perhaps more so than her mother- how do you see her maturity in the novel? An anti-rebellion against her mother? Stepping up to be the ‘real’ adult she feels is lacking? Just personality differences? Something else? How does Humphry's revelation, and his betrayal, change her?
Dorothy is simply a more practical person than some of the others. She is presented as the one that has the prickly hedgehog coat but is a princess underneath. She loves Tom and even wants him not to change but she also believes that she needs to be able to make a living. She may well have learned this from her mother as Humphrey is not able to support the family (or his other families). Further, Dorothy wants to know, Hedda wants to act, Florence wants to love but Dorothy wants the unbelievable freedom to actually really learn and know something on her own. The introduction to the magical and other worldly world of her father gives her depth and emotional resonance but does not waylay her real desires. Also, it is a moment that allows her relationship with Griselda to deepen as Griseld becomes the practical one and Dorothy the one that is overwhelmed. I really liked that particular transformation.
5. What are your thoughts on Charles/Karl’s journey into anarchism and political activism?
It is very well depicted as there are many times when he is put off by the passion of the activists and feels that his essential British nature is being mocked in some way. He also doesn't quite know what he himself can do even as he learns more about the poor and the disadvantaged and what ultimately must change. There is a way in which it feels as if he is still only a child in his investigations. I look forward to how this plays out in the final third.
6. How do the references to the Fabian Society, British socialists, women's rights, etc. enrich the purpose and the plot of the novel?
Historical fiction can be so rich because you learn about the context of the narrative, not just the character's storyline. Byatt is particularly eager to give us a great deal of background in the women's movement and the different reactions to it. In Chapter 25 she spends quite a bit of time giving us the history but also the different approaches. I enjoyed her having the women characters talk about the vote, the restrictions in their job and educational opportunities, even their very impractical clothes while Herbert Methley speaks to free love....hmmm. Also Elsie's alarm at realizing how unknowledgeable she was is well depicted as she represents the working class that doesn't have time to go to seminars.
7. A German puppeteer is a surprise guest at the Wellwoods' Midsummer party at the beginning of the novel. What did you think of the sections with Anselm Stern? And what role do you think puppets may play in the novel, and what could they represent?
I love that the puppets depict more allegorical roles that our characters parallel to a lesser extent. For example, there is Cinderella (Imogen), but there is also death in the puppet world which is always in the back of my mind while reading this book because as a reader, I know that the characters are heading toward WWI and the political revolutions. I don't know if they will get there within the actual book but nevertheless, the death is behind the curtain in the puppet world and the real world.
8. What is the significance of the Tree House? What does it mean to Tom - and to his siblings?
It is a safe place where they can play at being adults without the adults muddling things up. Further, it is a safe place where the children do not have to be a group. Olive and Humphrey's children tend be two groups, the older and the younger children and in the Tree House, they can be individuals. Later, the Tree House flips and becomes the place most safe for the children to go to be children rather than adults....especially Tom.
9. What do you make of Julian’s crush on Tom? How do you predict it will go?
I found the thoughts of Julian's father to be interesting. Prosper assumes that Julian will grow out of this sexual phase while he assumes that Gerald will not. Julian loves Tom largely for his beautiful body and the fact that he is allowed to remain himself in this unspecified age of youth. I have no idea how this will go but I believe Byatt is preparing us for Tom to be destroyed in some way, as the golden child simply will have to grow old even if he never grows up.
10. And finally, how are you enjoying the book so far? What direction do you think it’s going in?
It is funny. It took me quite awhile to get into the book and as I was launching into the 2nd third for this month I was having a great deal of trouble with the book. I did not want to spend more time with Olive, Humphrey, the Fludd's and even Tom. I really did not like the long section on the Paris Exposition - that could have been one page as far as I was concerned. However, then it went on to being about Elsie, Dorothy, Florence, Imogen and Griselda and it became much more fascinating. By the time I came to the end of the place I had marked as 2/3rds done, I wanted to keep reading...
Mod
There are growing references to specific events and historical figures of the era, whether from a political, activist (the suffragettes, the anarchist movements in Europe) and literary/artistic perspectives (hello Oscar Wilde). The evolution of the characters follows the development of these various movements and events, with some taking a more active part in them.
2. A number of the adult characters are artists in one way or another; many of them - through their art or their actions - cause damage to the other people in their lives. Discuss how the artists in the novel both create and destroy. And on that note, does Olive do the right thing in apprenticing Philip to Benedict Fludd?
Fludd definitely fits that description. While some laud him as a genius, he has reduced his family to total apathy through full control and almost servitude. Philip managed to survive there probably because he had more genius seeds than Fludd himself could ever have; in the end, it is because of Philip (and indirectly Geraint) that the Fludd family managed to have a constant source of income. Herbert Methley is another destroyer, considering how many children he has engendered out of wedlock. So is Humphry Wellwood, but he is less of an artist (he was mainly writing political pieces).
5. What are your thoughts on Charles/Karl’s journey into anarchism and political activism?
It feels very typical of several representants of the youth throughout the generations; they get inspired and influenced by nice ideas aimed at creating a better world. But he gradually discovers that some darker aspects of these ideas (anarchy: even killing famous figures to prove a point is allowed) do not fit with his deeper beliefs: Charles/Karl cannot think of himself killing another human being.
6. How do the references to the Fabian Society, British socialists, women's rights, etc. enrich the purpose and the plot of the novel?
It provides several directions of engagement for all the children involved in the story; because of their parents and their other relationships, it became part of their education but, as they grow up, each will decide to take their own path.
8. What is the significance of the Tree House? What does it mean to Tom - and to his siblings?
Not only was this a secret refuge for the children (but mainly Tom and Dorothy), it was also an extension of the world of fairy tales created by Olive. It has an extreme importance for Tom, who becomes really attached to this place and to the world and environment he cherishes in his long walks in the forests surrounding the property; it is a world where he wants to belong and where he refuses to really grow up.
Part 2 Questions:
1. As things unfold, which scenes/references to history caught your attention? Have you noticed references to any real figures/authors so far?
2. A number of the adult characters are artists in one way or another; many of them - through their art or their actions - cause damage to the other people in their lives. Discuss how the artists in the novel both create and destroy. And on that note, does Olive do the right thing in apprenticing Philip to Benedict Fludd?
3. In an essay she wrote for the London Times, Byatt wrote, "There is a strong case to be made that the Edwardians enjoyed school stories, magical tales, and tales of children alone in landscapes - woodland camps, secret expeditions - because they were themselves reluctant to grow up." How do the adults in the novel reflect this idea? What distinction do the characters make between childhood and adulthood? What distinction is Byatt making through the novel?
4. On the other hand, Dorothy largely acts as an adult before her time- perhaps more so than her mother- how do you see her maturity in the novel? An anti-rebellion against her mother? Stepping up to be the ‘real’ adult she feels is lacking? Just personality differences? Something else? How does Humphry's revelation, and his betrayal, change her?
5. What are your thoughts on Charles/Karl’s journey into anarchism and political activism?
6. How do the references to the Fabian Society, British socialists, women's rights, etc. enrich the purpose and the plot of the novel?
7. A German puppeteer is a surprise guest at the Wellwoods' Midsummer party at the beginning of the novel. What did you think of the sections with Anselm Stern? And what role do you think puppets may play in the novel, and what could they represent?
8. What is the significance of the Tree House? What does it mean to Tom - and to his siblings?
9. What do you make of Julian’s crush on Tom? How do you predict it will go?
10. And finally, how are you enjoying the book so far? What direction do you think it’s going in?
Discuss!