The Writer's Roundtable discussion

Help other people with their story problems, or post your own! (requested by Moon :D)

I want to write a book, but its main character (trigger warning) participates in self harm, and I've never personally done that. I feel I may not be qualified to write about that, because I could be really offensive to people who've gone through such a thing. I hope this wasnt disrespectful, sorry if it was!

R wrote: "I want to write a book, but its main character (trigger warning) participates in self harm, and I've never personally done that. I feel I may not be qualified to write about that, because I could b..."

Don't worry about it, you said it very nicely lol. When I write about stuff I don't know about, first I do research. Self-harm is a deep topic, and difficult to find out a lot about because every person's story is different. I would ask friends who you know have mental health issues. Be empathetic about it and tell them why your asking. I think most people would be open for a conversation because you want to educate yourself about it.
Don't be afraid to write about dark topics or things that aren't "mainstream". The stigma around self-harm is stupid, and probably hurting a lot of people who want help, but are scared to ask. Some of the most powerful stories are written about characters who have mental heath problems. Don't be afraid to dive into the topic.

R wrote: "I want to write a book, but its main character (trigger warning) participates in self harm, and I've never personally done that. I feel I may not be qualified to write about that, because I could b..."

Ok, thank you so much! I'll use this advice well!

I can never write the beginnings of books because I only ever have ideas for the middle of the book. Any suggestions?

Don't worry about it. I usually start by thinking about the middle, then backtrack to fill in the gaps. It usually isn't good, but don't spend a lot of time on the beginning. Get to the action quickly, or you and the reader are going to lose interest. After you finish, go back and write it out because chances are, you will get ideas while writing the middle of your story.

How do you keep the motivation to finish a novel or a draft at least? I'm a pantser so I never REALLY know what I'm writing and it can feel like I'm getting nowhere. I've been writing this story for about 4 & a half months(not including when I got writer's block)and only recently reached 3,000 words. That is likely why my brain keeps jumping to other story ideas. I've had to scrap TWO whole drafts because of things not working. I'm just struggling. I want a cover, I want it printed, but I have to write first and that is hard right now with school, etc. How do I do it?

I'm writing a novel, and I have this problem sometimes, although I'm an outliner. If I were you, I would try outlining. Last year I was a pantser and wrote like 50,000 words on TWO separate novels (around 100,000 words in total). Then I just lost interest. This year, I found my old novel and realized it had potential. So I drafted an outline. It went through so many revisions that by the time I was done, it was a completely different story. I'm still not done outlining, but I've written 60,000 words (60 pages) and going strong. Trust me, outlining helps. Even if its not your style, try writing things down, because if you have a great idea, you don't want to forget it. Just do a few bullet points, beginning, middle and end. Then go into more detail. Sometimes writing the ending first helps a writer keep interest in the story. It gives you a goal.
But don't be afraid to write other stories while writing a novel. It helps to step away from your project for a while. I hope this helps.

It REALLY helps thank you. You gave me some really good points to keep me invested in the story (also made me very jealous of you XD). I actually want to try and finish this story. Could you (message or just tell me) how you outline so I could test and pick apart what works for me? It's interesting to me how you were a pantser then wrote 60,000 words outlining. You are amazing as always.

Moon wrote: "It REALLY helps thank you. You gave me some really good points to keep me invested in the story (also made me very jealous of you XD). I actually want to try and finish this story. Could you (messa..."

lmao idk about amazing. But hmm lets see... just so you know, everyone's approach is different, but you can try mine if you like, then change it up to how you want.

You are going to need a lot of Google docs. That's how I do it, anyways. make a folder for your story. I'm writing a fantasy, so I REALLY have to go into detail about the world and people. Here are some examples of my different docs:

Random Ideas: Put thoughts about the plot and characters here. It's just a bullet point list, but I can pull ideas from it and add them to my novel. It also helps with organization.

Plot: This is a biggie. I do a list, like this:

-
-
-

And on each line, I write around a paragraph about each scene of my novel, starting at the beginning. You could just write a sentence or two, or whatever you have time for. It's difficult at first, but I've learned to rush through the first draft, getting an idea of where I want to go with the story. Half the time, during plotting, I have so many ideas about the novel that I change the story 10+ times. Afterward, go back and make changes. Remember, once you plot out your story, it isn't permanent. Change it as much as you like.

Character profiles. Ahh yes. Character profiles. They are amazing, and a little frustrating at first. here is an example of what it would look like. The idea is to ask questions about your character, like an interview, and figure out who they are. I also like to add photo's on that doc of what I want the character to look like.


Basic stuff


Name:

Age:

Height:

Weight:

Gender:

Sexuality:

Hair:


Important stuff


Fatal flaw: (the most important question you will ever have to answer. This drives your conflict forward and makes the climax a climax. Overcoming the flaw is essential for the story. In the beginning, my characters were flat. I was angry that I didn't know who they were, and what made them tick. Then I realized that my two main characters were practically the same person. So then I had to make them different. So I did. Now one of my characters is an introvert and an outsider, and the other one is an extrovert and a leader, which also causes conflict between them. Fatal flaws are important. Every character, even side characters, needs at least one)

Leader or follower:

Goal #1:

Goal #2:

Internal conflict:

External conflict:

You get the idea.


Then I have a background doc full of chaos and randomness. I have magic powers in my story, so I use this doc for organization and making the world feel as real as possible. I have notes about the government style, the types of magical powers, the number of magical people in the world. Everything "background-ish" about the world and time period goes here. If you have a realistic fiction novel, you might not need this.

I hope this helps lol. I think this is a basic explanation of what I do, although I have so many details and random crap that it's hard to explain. :)

I have a writing idea that is focused on the death of a loved one. The problem is that I can´t find a way to make the first chapter start out quite right. What do you guys do in this situation? Is there anything that helps get your mind working a little more?

Dalilah wrote: "I have a writing idea that is focused on the death of a loved one. The problem is that I can´t find a way to make the first chapter start out quite right. What do you guys do in this situation? Is ..."

Well, showers and anything where my body has to do one specific thing helps. It lets my mind wander to the story. Music also helps. However, just quiet situations where I have nothing to do but think. This is also where anxiety can be heightened but just try to shift your mind to the story. You force yourself to concentrate on your story. Think about other things in your story first, then after a while, the dots will connect. Also, generally I like to start in some type of action. For example, one of my stories starts in a football game. That game is important because it creates ripples in the story but the reader doesn't know. They are just trying to keep up.

Just my opinion :)

Thank you! I will definitely try these out!

No problem, Dalilah.

Hello. A good amount of you have read my GR story Traitor, so I have questions.

Should the story continue? I have ideas, major ones but it's a complete 360 (kinda..). The style is different, the characters are older, and since I have not (and WILL NOT) outline this story things aren't... lining up.

So, what do you enjoy and what don't you about Traitor (we all hate Stevie's Chapter let's be honest). I want to rewrite the right way before I take summer leave so let me know.

I think you should definitely continue the story and I love the different perspectives and the story line. I think maybe you could put in more detail on how the murder happened?

Mmmh...🤐The murder is the only thing in the story where I know exactly was happens. I made BLAH BLAH BLAH {redacted for mystery and plot reasons}. Is there anything else?

Not that I can think of. It is a really good story and I hope you continue on with it. 😁

I thank you for the compliment! I hope I continue also because I might delete some chapters....

No problem😀

so I've largely only written privately/for funsies- fanfiction/roleplay style stuff, unless for classwork. I'm currently working on a novel I'd actually like to maybe publish, but I'd love some suggestions for research resources. I'm writing a supernatural romance, and my main characters are a black woman and a native american (lakota sioux) man. I, being a white woman, want to responsibly and accurately create these characters and avoid harmful stereotypes. Any suggestions for sources and/or cultural sensitivity training/groups would be awesome

I don't know many resources, but the Lakota Sioux have an official tribe website here:

http://lakotadakotanakotanation.org/

I don't know if this'll help you, because I don't fully know what you are looking for. I would advise researching which words have been offensive to Natives and Black people in the past. You obviously don't want to paint them negatively.

For sure, thank you. I'm sorry, I wasn't particularly clear- I'm kind of confused about it to be honest. It's mostly that I want to paint an accurate picture of how this couple would experience the world, and their lens is undoubtedly different from mine. While I'm familiar with general history, the setting is modern and the world, apart from the supernatural stuff, is mostly realistic. Its hard to ask for specifics without explaining the story in mind better lol but I think I'd like to talk to people and get different perspectives

No, that's perfectly okay. There are many resources online for this type of stuff. It just takes some digging. I would try to talk to Black people, particularly women. I think talking to Natives would help as well (as long as it's Lakota Sioux because all Native tribes have different cultures, customs, and languages). I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help. If I come across any resources, I will make sure to link them here for you.

Thank you very much :) I'll keep doing some digging, and hopefully I'll be sharing some of my writing with yall soon

Leah wrote: "Thank you very much :) I'll keep doing some digging, and hopefully I'll be sharing some of my writing with yall soon"

You're very welcome! I'm looking forward to reading your work =D

Hi all! I just joined and am hoping to brainstorm a little bit about plotlines/backstories in my novel. It's about two sisters who have experienced tragedy, but back when I first plotted it out ages ago, I didn't think too much about it being a true-to life portrayal. These backstories in question are important for their character development, but I think they need to change because they're so outlandish. Any advice is much appreciated!

The first person's (MC's) lost her first love to murder. It feels out of place but might be the better one to keep (I'm hesitant to change it to a car crash, cancer, or just a break-up).

The second person (MC's sister) is a drug addict (keeping that), but this is implied as being the result of a horrific ordeal (being kidnapped and held hostage for a few days). This also feels too outlandish and/or like I don't give it enough space in the story because I don't want to describe it gratuitously. I have considered changing this to the character having escaped an abusive relationship, but I also don't feel like to story has enough room to fully explore that, and I'd hate to just gloss over it.

Any suggestions are much appreciated!

Hello T. Welcome!

So for the MC depending on the town etc, murder could be too outlandish. So something self-inflicted may be better if add. If you know what I mean I don't want to say it to trigger anyone.

Second an abusive relationship could be just as horrific as a kidnapping. Or maybe the reason for the addiction was that they used medicines to cope with the bad relationship and that's how she got addicted.

Just some ideas : )

If you wanted to make their sister's addiction a big part of the story, then I would recommend even just drafting a backstory to what happened to her. Then you can add excerpts into the story itself, so your readers can indirectly explore the awful things that she faced, allowing them to sympathise with her in a way. You could even go further than that and include the entire backstory in the novel, with a separate POV for the sister, letting her voice shine through and letting us see the details of what it was like for her and how she's tried to handle it.

Thanks all!

I've got a really good story idea (it's very slightly different and improved from the doc some of you read) but I feel like to make it feel authentic I need to have lots of characters. I've come up with around 12 but haven't gotten any details on them. its just really annoying because I want to write but I can't!!

When this happens to me I just think of people I know and use details from them

☆ Kelsie ~ in libras, libertas ☆ wrote: "I've got a really good story idea (it's very slightly different and improved from the doc some of you read) but I feel like to make it feel authentic I need to have lots of characters. I've come up..."

Hmm I've never had this problem before. I just... outline my plot and fill in the characters if I need them. Remember that less is more. Think about why you need this character exactly. Can you combine 2 people into one?
I would look up character traits and assign them to your blank characters. Also, find bad habits, strengths and weaknesses for each one to make them unique.

This is great advice! Thank you so much!

I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except that I have no idea how to end the Story. Can I simply end it with the mc staying evil or should she change? What about the other characters (there are several mcs)? Will the Story still be interesting if she just turns evil and then the book ends?
I would love some advice and thanks in advance!

books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except that I have no idea how to end the Story. Can I simply end it with the m..."

If the MC is supposed to be a hero-turned-villain, then I think it would be kind of a cop-out if she changed. She should stay a villain if that's the aesthetic you're going for. I think that it would be a good conclusion if you have enough of a build-up and if her villain transformation makes sense. You could write some evil line (non-cliche, non cheesy of course) and end it right there, maybe leave readers curious but also with enough to not feel like the story just ended abruptly. I hope this helps :) Let me know if you need more tips or something

books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except that I have no idea how to end the Story. Can I simply end it with the m..."

I love a good 'turn evil ending', which I normally see in shorter pieces of fiction. As you're writing a novel and you have a little bit more space to develop your theme, I would be interested in seeing your character develop a little bit more and make more decisions; even complete psychotics often believe that they are making reasonable, not evil decisions.
Personally, I would write on a bit past the point where they turn evil and show us the result of that action, particularly if you can make a decision that is abhorrent but also understandable to the reader (and perhaps a decision that the reader could see themselves making in similar circumstances, however horrible it might be).
Just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. Sound like an interesting story, so good luck!

Tom wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except that I have no idea how to end the Story. Can I simpl..."

Thank you! I have another question: When the story ends and the mc lives, she would probably continue doing evil things. Can I just let the story end like that? Or should I let her die?

Alexandria wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except that I have no idea how to end the Story. Can I simpl..."

Okay thanks that was super helpful!

Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except that I have no idea how to end the..."

No problem! =D I'm happy to help. If I knew more I might be able to be of more help, but I'm glad my comment helped you :)

Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except that I have no idea h..."

Okay so I've thought a little more on it and I have another question: When the story ends and the mc lives, she would probably continue doing evil things. Can I just let the story end like that? Or should I let her die?

Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except th..."

I think it depends on how much setup you have. How would she die? Would it come out of left field? Because if she suddenly died out of nowhere for no real reason, then I'd say don't kill her off.

Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost do..."

Well, she would die for a reason, and I suppose it would make the world a little better if she was gone ...

Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain stor..."

If it works with your story, I'd consider it. I tend to think of a lot ways a story can end, so what I would do if I were you is have multiple documents where you write all the different versions of the story that you can come up with. Maybe one where the MC dies, and another where she doesn't. You could have one where she stays evil, or turns good again. If you can't finish the whole project again, you could copy-paste what you've written and rewrite the scenes, or you could just write a different scene/chapter for each idea you have. Then, once you've finished, you can determine which one you like the most and keep that one as a final draft to edit. This is what I do a lot of the time. It's tedious and a bit time consuming, but if you really want to write a satisfying ending and give your story the ending it deserves, I'd highly recommend doing this.

Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to..."

Thank you! So do you think readers would still enjoy the book, even if the mc dies at the end, as long as it's written well?

Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So ..."

Potentially. As long as you write it in a way that makes sense and is slightly realistic, then yes, I think readers would enjoy it. There would be a lot who wouldn't, but that's just the reality of being an author. And no problem! I'm happy to help :)

Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Zoey wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except th..."

One thing I would bear in mind when considering killing the main character is that while books are a representation of life rather than a replica of life, evil people generally don't die conveniently, and generally people die for no clearly defined reason at all.
I wouldn't feel cheated if the main character died at the end through established events, such as a rival or the world having been established as dangerous and violent. However, I would feel cheated if the hero died because of deus ex machina; Aristotle noted in Poetics that the audience would feel cheated if the gods directly intervene in events and caused something miraculous to happen (like a character dropping dead or being resurrected), rather than letting events follow a logical course, and it's still true today!
I also think its dependent on what feeling you want to give the audience; a dead evil character has closure, and the possible feelings of safety and satisfaction on the part of the audience, whereas having an evil character survive the end of the story is one of the cardinal tools of effective horror, as it leaves the audience thinking about how the evil character might have behaved after the end of the book.
I agree with the idea of writing different versions of the ending, and I would consider what you want to leave the audience with at the end of the book and let that guide your decision making. Think about your story's armature (central message, moral) and make sure the ending reinforces that point.

R wrote: "I want to write a book, but its main character (trigger warning) participates in self harm, and I've never personally done that. I feel I may not be qualified to write about that.

I have been asked to speak on the topic of writing, as well as participated in panels, and offer my two rules of writing:
Don't write what you feel, just feel what you write.
Don't write what you know, just know what you write.
In this techno age, nothing has been streamlined as much as research. You don't have to personally experience an illness, a profession, a crisis to write about it - you do have to know about it, and then use your imagination and skills to tailor it to your character and his/her plight.
You may want to read a few novels where the protag is engaged in self harm, such as "I Never Promised You a Rose Garden" (Joanne Greenberg) or "Sharp Objects." (Gillian Flynn).

books.zoey wrote: "I‘m writing a YA fantasy novel and I have a little problem. So my wip is a hero-to-villain story and I‘m almost done, except that I have no idea how to end the Story. Can I simply end it with the m..."

I would personally do it so in the next book you can explore the idea more. Also it will make people want to read the next book more.

"I can never write the beginnings of books because I only ever have ideas for the middle of the book. Any suggestions?"


What I would do is start writing the middle the work on the beginning as you come up with ideas