Stephen King Fans discussion

hey guys so i was wondering. why does he write the n word so much? it seems weird to me especially since he's white and i feel like that's inappropriate towards poc.

A lot of writers use that word in the context of how their characters are talking. I get why could make somebody uncomfortable but the writer has to write what is true and that includes how his characters talk. Even fiction has to be true. Especially fiction has to be true.

I agree with Steve. People use that word. They used to use it even more than they do now. While I would never say that word, writing certain characters and choosing to "censor" their speech simply would not ring true.

Quentin Tarantino uses the N word in his dialogue too.

I guess it's just the way some people talk and you'll probably find that most black people use this word a lot.

So I guess it's just being true to how people talk in the real world.

I know a lot of black people who read King books and they're not offended by it, so you shouldn't either.

thanks guys for clarification!

I've read somewhere, perhaps in an interview, that the characters that say it are despicable, uncouth people, and in this early years he used it too much in order to tell the reader that the character was a mean/evil person. In his later works he has stopped or at least extremely minimized it's use.

Michael wrote: " you'll probably find that most black people use this word a lot."

I used to take a bus from downtown St. Paul out to the Mall of America. It would be unusual for me not to hear the word at least a dozen times...

Even more if I decided to take the bus from the Mall of America to downtown Minneapolis.

It was rare for me to hear it on any other routes. I lived in Downtown St. Paul for several decades, without a car, so I used the buses quite a bit. Just when I was going out and about though, because my daily commute was a 5-block walk.

It's pretty much what Charles said. If you've read your fair share of King novels, you'll have noticed that it's always racist, bigoted and all around despicable characters who use it.

I'm not saying he wasn't overusing that word especially in some of his earlier novels, I'm just saying he obviously didn't use it because he liked the word so much or because he wanted to show what great guys the characters using it were.

As whacky as some of his stories are, King usually writes about "real" poeple or let's say he writes about people that are supposed to feel real. And sadly, real people tend to have some really ugly sides to them.

Also, as a writer, it IS an easy way to identify a character as a racist. Just have him or her use the word.

because that's how those characters talk. don't be one of those cry babies looking for things you can dub inappropriate, the world is full of a lot of really bad people, some of his characters are really bad people, no need to dig into this

On a related note:

https://thetakeout.com/st-paul-s-hot-...

Deep in the beating heart of what is probably America’s politest state lies an edible contradiction. The Hot Dago sandwich of St. Paul, Minnesota, is a humble, honest, working class Italian-American dish that has been appearing on menus since the early 20th century. But the word “dago,” a slur long slung toward Italian-Americans, also enrages some customers, particularly people visiting from out of town.

Tschida seems to be one of the St. Paulites who’d speak openly about the Hot Dago, which for decades, has pitted those who take offense to the word and the restaurateurs that openly embrace—they’d say reclaim—that word. Every few years, it seems local press revisit the controversy, which if anything, keeps the sandwich in the public eye. In 2007, the director of the St. Paul Human Rights Department even tried to get the name removed through a city ordinance. An attorney for DeGidio’s told the St. Paul Pioneer-Press: “Doesn’t this guy have anything to do?” (A few thousand miles east in New York, an Albany food truck called “Wandering Dago” won a ruling in federal court this past January, allowing them to serve near the state Capitol after Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s administration had barred them.)

When I lived in St. Paul, I rode a city bus past the restaurant several times as I was on my way elsewhere. Always meant to stop and try the sandwich. The pictures they had up looked delicious.

I've always wondered about that. well for example, there's a part in The Stand where Mother Abigail, a black woman was thinking back on her youth. So I know he sometimes uses it for authenticity, because it's been used a lot through history

I hope that doesn't count as a spoiler

I don't think Stephen King has used the N word extensively in his recent works. And even when he does use it, he always does so in a proper context, never as a means of promoting hateful propaganda towards any particular group of people.

The same goes for his portrayal of gays and lesbians. In fact, his daughter being a lesbian may have influenced his understanding and respectful representation of diverse sexual orientations (his story "Elevation" or "Insomnia" come to mind). So, even if he includes sexual slurs, it's always within the context of a negative character or situation.

thank you guys for your input i though a lot since i made this post and agree with you guys

Did you also recognized that he also use the word Hysterical very often (to describe woman behavior). Don’t want to start a whataboutism question. It just came to my mind as I read your question about the N-word. Because if you know the root of this words, it’s not that pleasant to read it that often (as a woman).

The medical Latin term “hysteria” was used to diagnose neuroses that were almost entirely specific to women—and that were believed to be caused by the uterus.

Any suggestions? Anyone? Or am I alone with it? :D
I believe that language forms our society too and I’m really uncomfortable of hearing/reading that word.

(And sorry if this might be the wrong thread to ask).

Tara wrote: "Did you also recognized that he also use the word Hysterical very often (to describe woman behavior). "

I never noticed the frequency of the word 'hysterical' being used to describe women's behavior, but I understand why it could be concerning. I did a quick search inside 'The Stand' ebook and found the term used about fifty times throughout the entire book, seemingly applied to both men and women. The usage might vary from book to book.

Tara wrote: "Did you also recognized that he also use the word Hysterical very often (to describe woman behavior). Don’t want to start a whataboutism question. It just came to my mind as I read your question ab..."

Limiting a writer’s lexicon restricts their ability to express emotion, whether good or bad. Those limitations ripple out through society encumbering our freedom of speech as well as our ability to express ourselves. This looks like a feeble attempt to limit such things through identity politics, which shouldn’t be pushed in any art form. It only serves to segregate society, limit people’s rights, and isolate individuals to make them easier to manipulate by those in power. In short it would be double-plus bad to censor an artist’s ability to express themselves. For more information on this see: Fahrenheit 451, 1984, Lord of the Flies, and/or Animal Farm. Otherwise, if you dislike the vocabulary being used it’s simple enough to put the book down and find another writer to follow. Though I’d avoid the horror section if you’re particularly sensitive to strong language. Horror writers require the ability to depict monstrous people, places, and things. To do so they must use monstrous words. Perhaps you'd be more comfortable with a Nicholas Sparks books instead. Or if that bores you you could try writing a horror story that depicts a realistic character, whom the readers can recognize as evil? That way you’ll have a new perspective on the subject. Best wishes.

@caitlin

This sounds kinda defiant to me. How you can call this a discussion when all you say is: it is what it is and if you don’t like it, look for another (writer/genre). To be honest, I don’t think you got the point I was trying to make. But it’s alright. Maybe you see things just differently.

@Elder

Thank you. You’re right. He’s using it for both genders. I guess you see and use words differently if you know their roots.

Tara wrote: "@caitlin

This sounds kinda defiant to me. How you can call this a discussion when all you say is: it is what it is and if you don’t like it, look for another (writer/genre). To be honest, I don’t ..."
I apologize if I misunderstood you. I am defiant by nature. I'm told it's just a part of being an American. But I do tend to get defensive when I feel important freedoms come under attack, even during a friendly conversation. While this is a discussion, Stephen Kings books aren't, and I got the impression you were either suggesting he shouldn't be allowed to say things like that in his stories, or that you were attacking his character. I've never met the man so I can't speak for his character one way or the other, but I am working my way through his books this year and I have grown fond of them. If these weren't your intentions or meanings then yes, I misunderstood you, and for that I apologize. Though if it was what you meant, then I stand by my statement. Horror stories can be disturbing and upsetting in various different ways. If it's too much for you, you're probably in the wrong genera. Also, I was being genuine in my recommendation of Sparks. (rereading it I should say I don't talk like the internet,) His books are sweet and mild and perfect for a lazy summer afternoon, or a camping trip. Best read in a sunspot with a cup of warm tea, or hot coffee. I used to work in a library, and now I live in one, though the books are never checked out here. Recommending books has become second nature to me. When someone finds a story or writing style they dislike, I recommend a different one to help them keep their love of reading strong. Sometimes writers styles just disagree with readers. Best wishes.

I agree that there should be no limits on words used in art. The restriction trickles down through society. Horror does require the use of horrific words at times because horrific people use them. To not use them would render the writing itself unrealistic.

I try to review the books I read honestly, and sometimes I don't like them, however, when they actually offend me, I simply set them aside.

As a writer I still feel a sense of social responsibility in telling my stories. I'd like to say - really - it's up to the characters. If they are that despicable, maybe it's better to let them be who they are. But there are ways around anything, so I do everything I can to avoid the full use of inflammatory words. For example, as I just wrote last night, fictionalizing an incident that really happened to me, but essential to the story: "Italian, huh?" he said. "I don't care what color of n...." But I cut him off... turned and walked away.

Nick wrote: "As a writer I still feel a sense of social responsibility in telling my stories. I'd like to say - really - it's up to the characters. If they are that despicable, maybe it's better to let them be ..."

You expressed it better than I did. If a writer is writing a despicable or evil character, then poor language is warranted. If they are writing a character they expect me to like, then it isn't.

I also feel, very strongly, that older works using language we simply should not tolerate today should not be censored. If you erase the past, you are doomed to repeat it.

Please, it’s just not the point I tried to make. The argumentation you use is mostly like how ppl try to justify "traditions". Like I said, language forms people (or at least the their way of thinking—> ergo the way they act, consciously or subconsciously). And if you use a language which root degrades woman (knowingly), you reproduce misogyny. That’s my opinion and I don’t say that King does this intentionally. But you as writers, now well knowing, can choose if you want to use this language or if you just take a book and look for synonyms they may be not that misogyn. Thank you for listening :-) I wish you all well.

Tara wrote: "Please, it’s just not the point I tried to make. The argumentation you use is mostly like how ppl try to justify "traditions". Like I said, language forms people (or at least the their way of think..."

I agree.

Tara wrote: "@Elder

Thank you. You’re right. He’s using it for both genders. I guess you see and use words differently if you know their roots."

All in all, I don't think Stephen King is into promoting myogenic behavior. He's more about reflecting the society of his time when he writes.

I'm siding with your worries, I think there are some real myogenic works by other authors out there. Even worse, certain works promote pedophilia and are glorify immoral behaviors, which extend beyond the realm of horror-themed books. These authors must be brought to light and held accountable for their content.

Yet, that whole 'cancel' culture thing is kinda tricky. Remember how they removed or changed books like Huckleberry Finn because of the N-word? Turns out Mark Twain was actually defending black slaves in that book, not against them. It's like those supporting the canceling of such books are shooting themselves in the foot, right?

In recent years, there has been a rise in social madness, and I find it disheartening to see people being influenced by social justice movements that lack a real purpose. They act all self-righteous, but sometimes, they might be causing more harm without even realizing it.

By the way, we all have our unique quirks. For instance, I'm a night owl, and it's tough to find open stores after 9PM to feel normal. I'm not trying to demand everyone to cater to my late-night shopping needs with protests. I accept what I am and I simply try to adapt. Some folks judge me, assuming I'm not working or doing sketchy stuff because they see my home lights open all night through morning hours, when in fact I'm working on my professional projects. My motto is: live and let live--as long as it's not totally immoral.

Anyway, just wanted to share extra thoughts.

Nick wrote: "As a writer I still feel a sense of social responsibility in telling my stories. I'd like to say - really - it's up to the characters. If they are that despicable, maybe it's better to let them be ..."

Hey Nick, can you private message me? I wanted to read some of your books.

Actually, the more I think about this the more I agree with Tara, I've never actually used the word in a book before, but I wanted to use the quote in a conversation about how my hero, Tony, has come to understand some of the undercurrents of racial hatred because of his personal experience. Anyway, I've decided to delete the scene and express the understanding in some other way.

I feel I may have been misunderstood. I am NOT saying that language in books written today is ok. We now know better. I am not defending a tradition of language. I'm just saying that to write realistically, offensive words sometimes belong in the dialogue. Not the narrative, if that makes sense. People do speak that way, even though they should NOT, and those people tend to be... varying degrees of bad.

I think what you took as me defending tradition was my hard stance on not censoring books already in print. Classics in many cases. They actually become terrific conversation starters with children and young people. It gives the opportunity to show how far we have come, and that we can be and do better.

Along the same lines, I don't think King has used that word in his writing in decades, not even in dialogue. He too is trying to do and be better.

My intention wasn’t to cancel anything, just to raise some awareness for using some particular words. And I guess that what discussions are for? Exchanging opinions. And I see you.

Elder wrote: "Nick wrote: "As a writer I still feel a sense of social responsibility in telling my stories. I'd like to say - really - it's up to the characters. If they are that despicable, maybe it's better to..."

ELDER - can't figure out how to do that - but I'd love to. Can you message me so I can respond.

What was the latest book anyone here has read that he has used it? I haven’t read a lot of recent King, but I’ve seen it in his older work, so I’m curious.

Maximilian wrote: "What was the latest book anyone here has read that he has used it? I haven’t read a lot of recent King, but I’ve seen it in his older work, so I’m curious."

I'm not positive what the latest was, but when you are writing characters, sometimes bad, mean or evil characters, they are going to use offensive words. I think it's more important that he has never used it as a descriptor of a POC in a way that wasn't meant to be offensive.

i feel like he only really used it up until the 90s. I think it was not that taboo to use it back then. Also, he never uses it as a description but rather a curse word used by an evil character. I do read the books in german though and i dont know if the amount of n words gets lowered in translation.

Maximilian wrote: "What was the latest book anyone here has read that he has used it? I haven’t read a lot of recent King, but I’ve seen it in his older work, so I’m curious."

I just finished Mr Mercedes and he uses it in there a few times. According to Amazon search, 11 times. I don't find King to be racist, but I do find he uses this word in his character dialogue more than most authors I've encountered.

Maximilian wrote: "What was the latest book anyone here has read that he has used it? I haven’t read a lot of recent King, but I’ve seen it in his older work, so I’m curious."

The word is used in The Institute, but it's not directed at anyone. A rap version appears in Holly.

Out of curiosity, looking up random books off the top of my head. The results show definitely.

Misery - Amazon says once
Firestarter - Once, He has Rainbird say it
Cujo - Twice from Gary
The Stand - 13 times!

...The Winner --- IT , 51 times!

Not in Pet Semetary, the only book I looked up that did not have it mentioned

That word is disgusting feeling to type in search, by the way :/

Thank you for your research, Erin 🙌🏼😄

Tara wrote: "Thank you for your research, Erin 🙌🏼😄"

I had free time on my hands for a moment lol

Writers don't necessarily have to agree with how their characters behave. So, maybe even though he uses the n word in his character's dialogue, he might not be racist. And just for the record, I'm not white.

❃A.J❃ wrote: "Writers don't necessarily have to agree with how their characters behave. So, maybe even though he uses the n word in his character's dialogue, he might not be racist. And just for the record, I'm ..."

Thanks *AJ* I agree. A writer has to portray the character as realistically as possible to help the reader understand. So, if it's a situation where a racist would use the word, I guess the writer has every right to use it. If the character's an ass, you have to do everything in your power to make it clear. Having said that, though, I have to admit that it's a superpower negative word, and-- as a writer -- I would only use it in extreme circumstances. In fact, I've never used it, and my works almost always include characters of different races.

The way I see it is this. It's all very well using the argument that it's the character saying it, not the author, but the author is forcing us to read, maybe not out loud, but in our mind, an objectionable & taboo word, which for a lot of people can be very uncomfortable. It's right there in print in front of us & very hard to avoid. Maybe the author should think about that before inflicting the word upon us.

Being offended is a risk all readers take when they open a book and turn to the first page. Whatever happens after that is on them. If you choose to explore something of your own free will, it is not "inflicted" upon you.

Merv wrote: "The way I see it is this. It's all very well using the argument that it's the character saying it, not the author, but the author is forcing us to read, maybe not out loud, but in our mind, an obje..."

By that line of reasoning authors shouldn't write about anything "triggering." Animal violence, sexual violence, etc. They would all be off limits, and while not everyone wants to read about those things in detail, they are a part of life and therefore belong in stories.

As a reader you can choose to close a book at any point.

I never felt King's use the word egregious in any way. He uses it to define a character, not himself.

Kandice wrote: "Merv wrote: "The way I see it is this. It's all very well using the argument that it's the character saying it, not the author, but the author is forcing us to read, maybe not out loud, but in our ..."

I was talking about a single word that would be very hard to ignore. You're talking about something that may take a paragraph or a page or more to describe & so can be ignored a lot easier if the reader so chooses. Once you've read the taboo word we're discussing you can't unread it & that could be upsetting for people.

F.C. wrote: "Being offended is a risk all readers take when they open a book and turn to the first page. Whatever happens after that is on them. If you choose to explore something of your own free will, it is n..."

Well, it isn't me, the reader, adding the word to the book, it was the author who wrote it & therefore inflicted it upon me.

If you don't like what the author wrote, then it is your right to not read any further.

Linda wrote: "If you don't like what the author wrote, then it is your right to not read any further."

That's my whole point. By the time I or anyone else has read the word, it's too late. Yes, I can stop reading but I've seen the word, it can't be unread.