Children's Books discussion

In September and October, the Fiction Club will be reading Tove Jansson’s Moomin series, the main nine novels, not the Moomin themed graphic novels and separately published short stories. But of course, if you happen to read these, yes, feel free to post about them.

The Moomin novels were originally penned in Swedish but they are seemingly set in a rather fantastical Finland (Tove Jansson herself lived in Finland as a member of the Swedish speaking minority there).

I will be reading the English translations by Elizabeth Portch, Thomas Warburton and Kingsley Hart (but the “first” book about the Great Flood was actually only published in 2006 or rather republished and is translated by David McDuff ) mostly to see if I am any more enamoured of these translations now than when I tried two of the Moomin novels in English a couple of years ago (Comet in Moominland and Finn Family Moomintroll) and found Elizabeth Portch’s translation of these two novels rather slow flowing, choppy and not all that engaging and adequately adventurous.

The Moomins and the Great Flood (published in 2006, translator David McDuff)

Comet in Moominland (Elizabeth Portch translator)
Finn Family Moomintroll (Elizabeth Portch translator)
Moominpappa's Memoirs (Thomas Warburton translator)
Moominsummer Madness (Thomas Warburton translator)
Moominland Midwinter (Thomas Warburton translator)
Tales from Moominvalley (Thomas Warburton translator)
Moominpappa at Sea (Kingsley Hart translator)
Moominvalley in November (Kingsley Hart translator)

Www.moomin.com

This is the official Moomin website. You can also find information on the Moomins on Wikipedia.

Just pointing out that I am also going to be reading the following Tove Jansson biography, Tove Jansson: Work and Love (which looks to have originally been penned in Finnish) and perhaps if I have enough time both The Summer Book and A Winter Book (but that these are not really children’s stories).

I tried both Comet in Moominland and Finn Family Moomintroll a couple of years ago and I certainly did not find translator Elizabeth Portch's writing style all that engaging, finding her words halting and tedious and certainly not like the German language translations by Vivica and Kurt Bandler I read and adored as a nine year old in 1975 (but just to be clear, the more recent German language translations by Birgitta Kicherer have also been terrible and disappointing). I will be rereading both novels, but I doubt I will like them any better than before although I am hoping that the other Moomin novels translated by Thomas Warburton and Kingsley Hart will be better.

Oh and it seems that before she married Kurt, Vivicia had a sexual relationship with Tove and one of the novels is even dedicated to her.

The Moomins and the Great Flood

When I was a child and read Tove Jansson's evocative and adventurous tale of how a comet threatens the Moomins and their valley (Comet in Moominland, although I actually read it in German), I was rather annoyed and frustrated with and by the fact that while there were all these textual allusions and hints at the beginning of Comet in Moominland of there having previously been a massive flooding, the novel where this so-called Great Flood occurs had never been translated from its original Swedish (finally remedied in 2006 with this here English language translation by David McDuff). And after now after having read The Moomins and the Great Flood, I can certainly and very much understand why this novel (which is considered the first Moomin tale and was orignally published in 1945, and was also for decades out of print even in its Swedish original), has only recently been translated (the simple fact being that although author and illustrator Tove Jansson's accompanying pictorial images are indeed glowingly descriptive, esoteric and for all intents and purposes wonderful, the actual text, the actual featured narrative, the story of The Moomins and the Great Flood is simply, is just not in any way en par with the other Moomin novels). For the text feels majorly choppy, uneven and often so bare bones that one might almost assume one is reading more of an outline of a novel than an actual and finished, polished end product. I mean, we as readers never really do manage to obtain all that much knowledge and information as to exactly why Moominpapa has ended up being missing. Yes, he has seemingly abandoned his family (his wife and young son) to travel with the Hatifatners, but no detailed and specific reasons as to why are ever really textually given. And even the Great Flood itself is at least in my opinion rather a non event, is presented by Jansson as being there, being a presence, but with only scant description and portrayal (which also and indeed seems to be the case with almost all of the diverse episodes of The Moomins and the Great Flood, the featured and presented nuggets of detail and of even storytelling charm, pieces of information that seem important for a short while but then like a flame, sputtering out, failing to coalesce into a harmonious whole). And thus, while I do appreciate finally having had the opportunity to read, to experience Tove Jansson's very first Moomin book and cheer the fact that her The Moomins and the Great Flood was in 2006 translated from the original Swedish into English (as well as subsequently into other languages), is again in print and as available as the rest of the Moomin series (since it does in fact clean up some loose ends and presents how the Moomins originally reach their valley, and also how they meet and in many ways become saddled with the intriguing and sometimes a trifle frustrating kangaroo-like creature who in the later Moomin novels is known as Sniff), I still have found The Moomins and the Great Flood only rather very mildly amusing and entertaining at best, and the novel's general writing style, its textual authorial presentation too scattered, too unfinished and too unpolished to be considered with more than two stars (and leave the truth and caveat that the sequels are definitely much superior and are to be in all ways preferred and recommended above The Moomins and the Great Flood which I really would only suggest for serious Moomin series fans and completists).

Komet im Mumintal

This here (and unfortunately also extremely rare and generally rather massively expensive if indeed even available used online) Ravensburger Taschenbücher German language translation of Tove Jansson's Komet im Mumintal (which Swedish language original title on the Goodreads database is Kometer kommer, although Vivica and Kurt Bandler's 1970 translation actually claims the original title to have been Kometjakten) was one of my favourite childhood reads (a book that I received in a large stack of about twenty Ravensburger Taschenbücher as a birthday present in 1975, a book that I took with me when we immigrated to Canada in 1976 and that I even carried along in my trunk when I went to university in New Brunswick in 1985, where it unfortunately ended up somehow disappearing during one of those silly residence "panty raids" during frosh week, and oh boy, was I ever both sad and seriously, lastingly peeved because of that).

And honestly, to and for me personally, Vivica and Kurt Bandler's translation (and I finally did locate a reasonably intact and not too shabby copy online a couple of years ago), it still and absolutely feels as THE ONE German language version of Komet im Mumintal I do love the most, as the more recent translation by Birgitta Kicherer at least in my opinion leaves way way too much to be desired and in particular that it fails to present far too many important details, such as for example patently ignoring the little silk monkey, who though strangely and incomprehensibly is still featured in Tove Jannsson's accompanying illustrations but has textually seemingly been textually forgotten by Kicherer (although according to readers who have read the original Swedish version, Kicherer supposedly does include parts that were left out by the Bandler in 1970, but I for one simply cannot handle the removal of that delightful little silk monkey). And sorry, but with Elizabeth Portch's English language translation, with Comet in Moominland (which I did try and originally had quite high hopes for) her writing style, her narrational renderings expression and cadence wise, they just do not at least for me in any way capture the delightful magic of the story, as they tend to make me feel aloof, above and beyond, and not really rooting for and exploring with Moomin, Sniff, Snuffkin and the rest of the group (but just dispassionately observing them and theirs).

However, while I do personally and always will prefer the Bandlers' 1970 German language translation, their 1970 rendition of Komet im Mumintal, I would still if recommending this second Moomin novel most definitely suggest Elizabeth Portch’s English language translation, I would absolutely recommend Comet in Moominland before I would in any way even consider recommending Birgitta Kicherer's more recent German language rendition, as the latter just really and frustratingly bothers me to on end with its additions and especially with its annoying subtractions and abridgements (and sorry, but even if it is indeed true that the recent German translation contains parts that appear in the Swedish original and do not appear in the 1970 translation, the little silk monkey has always been a personal favourite and I was seeing red so to speak when I could not find her textually in the Birgitta Kicherer translation). And indeed, if you speak and read German and are actually able to find Vivica and Kurt Bandler's 1970 Ravensburger Taschenbücher translation online, yes, do consider reading their Komet im Mumintal, with its reddish and orange hued book cover of Moomin, Sniff, Snuffkin et al crossing the evaporated ocean on their stilts, as it truly is a lovely, evocative and fun, as well as occasionally eye-opening romp, a fantastical experience for young and old.

And finally with regard to Tove Jansson’s featured themes and contents, what I love the most lastingly about Komet im Mumintal (and actually, this pertains to all of the Moomin books I have read so far) are the delightfully anecdotal episodes, which although generally complete in themselves also never feel as though they are hanging in space so to speak, as though there is not a thread of continuity from beginning to end, with the chapters seamlessly moving from the first inklings that a comet could perhaps be arriving to the fateful day it does (and how close the earth comes to disaster). But for me even more importantly (and probably the main reason why I have always so much adored the Moomin novels both as a child and now as an adult) I have so much appreciated how very much humanely and with personal understanding and supportiveness, Jansson describes and presents her diverse and often rather intriguing characters, and yes that even those individuals who show potentially problematic or negative behaviour patterns (such as Sniff, the Hemulens and even the silent, creepy Hattifatteners) are shown not only as negative but also with positiveness and much authorial understanding (and considering that the Hemulens, for example, with their OCD like obsessions and neuro-atypical ways and means could easily be considered as being on the autism spectrum, the Moomin books are in my humble opinion also interesting and important discussion vehicles, especially considering that these novels were for the most part penned at a time when autism and other such syndromes were not as yet really part of public awareness and the public conscience).

Finn Family Moomintroll

Yes, I absolutely adore Tove Jansson's Moomintrolls and their exploits, and the 1970s German language translations by Vivica and Kurt Bandler were massive favourites of my childhood (and are still considered sweet and nostalgic gems to be reread over and over again, although my copies are now falling apart and I do need to find replacements). And with this fact in mind, when the Children's Literature Group decided to read Elizabeth Portch's English language translation of the third Moomintroll book, of Trollkarlens Hatt a couple of years ago (in 2010 to be exact), I joined with eager and yes even glad anticipation, although I did wonder why Ms. Portch had chosen the title of Finn Family Moomintroll, as it kind of harkens back to Johann D. Wyss' classic Swiss Family Robinson (and I definitely failed to see and still have trouble understanding how and why a group of Scandinavian troll like creatures should somehow be related in any manner to a tale of a Swiss family marooned on a deserted island).

But that all being said, and my happy reading anticipation notwithstanding, Finn Family Moomintroll has in many if not most ways been a major and sad disappointment, both in 2010 and still remaining thus for my recent reread (which I engaged in both to finally post a real review and also because I did want to give Elizabeth Portch's translation a second chance, but my disappointment with Finn Family Moomintroll persists and rather massively so, I might add).

Now I do still enjoy and appreciate the characters, the plot, the events, the ideas presented by Tove Jansson thematics wise in Finn Family Moomintroll, but indeed have had rather massive amounts of trouble getting even remotely into the flow of Elizabeth Portch’s translated English language narrative. And considering how much I personally have always and repeatedly enjoyed the 1970s German translations of precisely this same book (and others of the Moomintroll series), I do now absolutely believe that it is more than likely Elizabeth Portch’s to and for me rather mediocre feeling translation that has caused this rather annoying sense of disconnection and being on the outside looking in (and yes, at times even tedious boredom, something that I certainly NEVER once experienced with Vivica and Kurt Bandler's always engaging and adventuresome renditions of Jansson's original Swedish into German). And thus, while I still do more than love and adore the 1970s German translations of the Moomintroll series that had graced and sweetened my childhood, I can only and will only consider but two stars for Finn Family Moomintroll, as the flow and rhythm of Elizabeth Portch's translated text (or rather the lack of the former, the lack of adequate narrative flow and rhythm) is and continues to be both annoying and disappointing enough to in no way be able to consider a higher ranking (and also making me ever more eager to reread the Bandlers' 1970s German language translations).

Just started with trying to reread Comet in Moominland and I am once again not really finding Elizabeth Portch’s translation style all that engaging, and not really knowing why either but just am finding her textual flow and her choice of words at times a bit awkward and choppy and especially so if I compare to the 1970 Vivica and Kurt Bandler German language translation that I am reading at the same time. But still am enjoying myself thematically, just not really all that much stylistically.

And I guess this will likely also remain the case for me with regard to rereading Finn Family Moomintroll.

I've been wanting to try the Moomin books again. I knew a few people who absolutely loved them but I somehow never got enthusiastic when I picked one up. I'll see if I can get to one this month. Is is best to start with the first one published, do you think, or is one of them "the favorite" among most fans and I should just jump right to that? Do you have a favorite translator, if I have a choice at the library? Thanks :-)

Kathryn wrote: "I've been wanting to try the Moomin books again. I knew a few people who absolutely loved them but I somehow never got enthusiastic when I picked one up. I'll see if I can get to one this month. Is..."

Well, I would not start with the one about the Great Flood. It was only republished in 2006 and I really only enjoyed the illustrations and found the story really vague.

I do wonder if the ones translated by Thomas Warburton and Kingsley Hart will flow better than the two translated by Elizabeth Portch (it is a bit annoying how many different translators there have been). I have not read the Warburton and Hart translations but I really have found the two Elizabeth Portch translations pretty substandard compared to the 1970s German language renderings I read as a child. And with that in mind, I would definitely not recommend Finn Family Moomintroll all that much although Comet in Moominland is in my humble opinion a story where even Elizabeth Portch’s annoying and lacking stylistic flow does not really take away so much from the adventure of the themes and contents and that in Comet in Moominland you are as a reader introduced in detail to Moomin Valley, the Moomins, their friends etc.

I never read these but planned to and planned a Moomin themed baby gift for my BFF but that never happened. I think she read some of them but I'm not sure. I'll have to ask.

Manybooks wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "I've been wanting to try the Moomin books again. I knew a few people who absolutely loved them but I somehow never got enthusiastic when I picked one up. I'll see if I can get to on..."

Thanks, Gundula. I will see what the library has. Some of these have a rather melancholy sound to them.. or maybe I'm just being extra-sensitive right now given happenings ... big floods, firey comet causing a town to flee (my old stomping grounds are where the Caldor Fire is raging right now) so I will see what the library has and what fits my mood. A GoodReads friend suggested the Finn Family one as perhaps the most cheerful and child-friendly, so I might try that even with the subpar translation. I'll look forward to your thoughts on the rest. I've read enough reviews to sense that some rather deep stuff lies beneath the whimsical fantasy element. Sounds fascinating.

Has anyone looked at the Moomin comic strips? My library has several volumes of these. I know it's not a novel for purposes of discussion, but just wondered if the comics are enjoyable in their own right?

Kathryn wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "I've been wanting to try the Moomin books again. I knew a few people who absolutely loved them but I somehow never got enthusiastic when I picked one up. I'll see ..."

I would definitely preread any books before sharing them with your boys.

Manybooks wrote: "I would definitely preread any books before sharing them with your boys"

Will do. Thank you for the tip!

Kathryn wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "I would definitely preread any books before sharing them with your boys"

Will do. Thank you for the tip!"

I for instance found Comet in Moominland less problematic (even with the comet threat) than Finn Family Moomintroll, where I was really offended by how gladly Moomintroll and his friends torture and kill a fish.

I am actually finding Comet in Moominland more enjoyable this time around but still style wise not as much to my tastes as the 1970 German translation I loved as a child.

I do notice that in Comet in Moominland, Elizabeth Portch’s translation sometimes feels like it is word for word from Swedish to English and that she also at times uses vocabulary words that really do not sound natural in English. For example, when Moomintroll tells his mother about finding the cave, he says he cannot tell much because he is bound by a swear, and well, in good English instead of using the word swear as a noun, the word oath should in my opinion be used instead. And yes, these translation slip ups from Elizabeth Portch’s pen do add up and are quite textually annoying and especially so since I have not noticed this with the German translations (and even the recent one by Birgitta Kicherer, as my main issue with her text is mostly that she has left out and ignored the little silk monkey).

So the illustrations of the Mumins are interesting, for at night, they are wearing nightshirts but during the day they are usually naked (but the mother does have accessories like handbags etc.).

And does anyone actually have any idea precisely why the Moomins would be fully clothed in nightshirts in bed but without their clothes except for accessories like aprons, hats and the like during the day?

So I am finding it interesting as an adult that on the one hand the Moomins and Sniff by extension are depicted by Jansson as magical creatures of fantasy but on the other hand they also act like typical Swedish/Finnish men and women, living lives that are standard and even at times a bit mundane, with the parents puttering around the house and even Moomintroll and Sniff going exploring but taking along or trying to take along on their trip all the comforts of a typical bourgeois existence.

And by the way, I am trying to read Comet in Moominland a bit thoroughly this time and with a specific eye for the minutiae of the translation, and I have come upon yet a second case so far where Elizabeth Portch in my opinion makes use of a not so idiomatic for English word, because when Moomintroll and Sniff meet Snuffkin and he calls them discoverers while semantically this is of course correct and we know what Snuff is meaning, idiomatically, for good stylistic English Snuff should really be using the word explorers instead.

Manybooks wrote: "In September and October, the Fiction Club will be reading Tove Jansson’s Moomin series, the main nine novels, not the Moomin themed graphic novels and separately published short stories. But of co..."

Yay, Moomin!

Manybooks wrote: "I tried both Comet in Moominland and Finn Family Moomintroll a couple of years ago and I certainly did not find translator Elizabeth Portch's writing style all that enga..."

I liked Comet in Moonminland much more than Finn Family Moomintroll.

My library only carries Comet in Mooninland and Finn Family Moonintroll. 😢

Ivonne wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "I tried both Comet in Moominland and Finn Family Moomintroll a couple of years ago and I certainly did not find translator Elizabeth Portch's writing s..."

Me too!

I know that Sniff is a small and rather cowardly animal, but even though both Kurt and Vivica Bandler (in the 1970 German translations I read) and Elizabeth Portch in her English translations use similar words to describe him, the Bandlers description of Sniff sounds both more accepting (less critical) and more in-depth than Elizabeth Portch's (at least for me and in both Comet in Muminland and in Finn Family Moomintroll).

Am about to start with the firs of the Thomas Warburton translations, The Exploits of Moominpappa, Described by Himself and am hoping that Warburton will be more to my liking as a Tove Jansson translator than Elizabeth Portch, as I certainly have not enjoyed her writing style (her mode of translation) and her choice of vocabulary selections in both Comet in Moominland and even more so in Finn Family Moomintroll.

I do find it annoying and frustrating with regard to what I would call a continuity of writing style that Elizabeth Portch is the translator for two of the novels, Thomas Warburton for four and Kingsley Hart for the final two (not really counting book one as it was published decades later). Sure, I am hoping that Warburton and Hart’s translation will be more to my tastes than Elizabeth Portch’s, but really, since the novels were penned by one author, it would feel more natural to have the series also translated into English by one author and not by three.

Supposedly, Tove Jansson made a lot of additions to the novel where Moominpappa is writing his memoirs in order to poke fun at pompous memoir writers. And yes, it looks like Thomas Warburton has definitely captured this in his translation, although this pomposity also kind of makes the book a bit of a slog to read and more something for adults used to irony and satire.

It is taking me rather a long time to get into The Exploits of Moominpappa, Described by Himself and this time I do think that Thomas Warburton is probably mirroring Tove Jansson pretty successfully and that I am finding Moominpappa’s often bombastic writing style and attitude a bit hard to get used to.

Manybooks wrote: "It is taking me rather a long time to get into The Exploits of Moominpappa, Described by Himself and this time I do think that Thomas Warburton is probably mirroring Tove Jansson pret..."

Please let us know if it's worth US$5.99, as my library doesn't have it in any format.

Ivonne wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "It is taking me rather a long time to get into The Exploits of Moominpappa, Described by Himself and this time I do think that Thomas Warburton is probably mirroring..."

I think it is definitely worth reading, and the bombastic nature of Moominpappa’s writing is a narrative tool employed by Tove Jansson to poke fun at memoir writers.

Beginning to feel rather sorry for the Hemlulens. They are way too often the object of ridicule and derision, especially by the Moomin family (maybe understandable from the father, but I also think he is being just a bit personally vindictive).

Ivonne wrote: "Please let us know if it's worth US$5.99, as my library doesn't have it in any format..."

Are you able to get it from your library through Interlibrary Loan? Or does you library also charge a fee for that service?

Finding Moominpappa kind of annoying and full of himself in his memoirs and although I think this is deliberately done, not really enjoying reading the constant verbal bombast all that much, and the rather train of thought and stream of consciousness without editing writing (by the father, so cleverly depicted by both Tove Jansson and translator Richard Warburton but just not really all that personally enjoyable for my own reading).

I am starting Comet in Moominland. I never did realize the creatures were trolls before this topic, as they look like upright hippos to me.

Beverly wrote: "I am starting Comet in Moominland. I never did realize the creatures were trolls before this topic, as they look like upright hippos to me."

They are called trolls but in my opinion they definitely neither look or behave like typical trolls. I just think of them as Moomins and forget the part about them being trolls.

Manybooks wrote: "They are called trolls but in my opinion they definitely neither look or behave like typical trolls. I just think of them as Moomins and forget the part about them being trolls."

I never realized they were trolls, either! I also thought that they look like some kind of mythical hippo creatures.

Ivonne wrote: "I never realized they were trolls, either! I also thought that they look like some kind of mythical hippo creatures."..."

I'm glad I'm not the only one!

In the German translations, the Moomins are simply called die Mumins (pronounced the exact same way as in English) and nothing is ever said about them supposedly being trolls. But for that matter, the only aspect thus far in the English translations I have read that alludes to fact the Moomins are supposed to represent a type of troll is what the Moomin’s son is called (Moomintroll, and yes, in German he is just called Mumin).

Manybooks wrote: "In the German translations, the Moomins are simply called die Mumins (pronounced the exact same way as in English) and nothing is ever said about them supposedly being trolls. But for that matter, ..."

That's interesting. So did one of the translators come up with the "troll" part of his name?

Beverly wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "In the German translations, the Moomins are simply called die Mumins (pronounced the exact same way as in English) and nothing is ever said about them supposedly being trolls. But..."

Not sure, it depends if in the original Swedish texts, the Moomins are called trolls, and I do not know that.

So interesting! I, too, never thought of them as trolls!

I will never think of the Moomins as trolls.

Kind of finding the memoirs of Moominpappa pretty dragging, hoping, it gets a bit better, but right now, the rather aimless voyaging and the descriptions by Moominpappa are kind of making me yawn.

I finished reading Comet in Moominland, the Elizabeth Portch translation (although I remember a little German from my college days, I don't remember enough to tackle a German translation). I have to agree with Manybooks' assessment of this translation, even though I have no other translation to compare it with:
And sorry, but with Elizabeth Portch's English language translation, with Comet in Moominland (which I did try and originally had quite high hopes for) her writing style, her narrational renderings expression and cadence wise, they just do not at least for me in any way capture the delightful magic of the story, as they tend to make me feel aloof, above and beyond, and not really rooting for and exploring with Moomin, Sniff, Snuffkin and the rest of the group (but just dispassionately observing them and theirs).
I, too, felt like an observer of these events, rather than involved in them. And even with the overarching theme of the approaching comet, the chapters seemed a bit episodic to me, until towards the end, when the group was hurrying home to get to the cave ahead of the comet.
(view spoiler)[I did not like the ending AT ALL. I don't know if this is the fault of the original story, or the fault of the translator. The last sentence is: "I think everything is still there," said Moomintroll. "Come with me and have a look." I turned the page to continue reading, and there was no more to read! This ending was simply too abrupt for words. I expected the Moomins and the reader to continue on and check out whether everything was indeed still there! (hide spoiler)] For this reason, I could only give the book 2 stars.

Beverly wrote: "I finished reading Comet in Moominland, the Elizabeth Portch translation (although I remember a little German from my college days, I don't remember enough to tackle a German translation). I have t..."

The ending is also a bit abrupt in the German translation but not quite as much as with Portch. And I am glad you also felt like an observer.

So I am still planning on reading the books in order (just because that is how I am). But I am really bored with The Exploits of Moominpappa, Described by Himself (the contents more than the tone) and am definitely tempted to skip to the next book, to Moominsummer Madness.

Ploughing through, but am definitely tempted to skip to the end as I do think (and hope) that Moominsummer Madness will be better and less boring than The Exploits of Moominpappa, Described by Himself, which is really totally feeling more and more tedious.

I love the illustrations in the Moomin novels and that Tove Jansson is both author and illustrator. And I also really appreciate that Jansson’s illustrations have also been retained in the English translations, as that is not always the case. For example, with German children’s author Erich Kästner, with some of the more recent translations, the accompanying artwork is not by the original illustrator Walter Trier anymore but has for some reason been replaced.