Tournament of Books discussion

This will be the space to link to the shortlist competition (for new folks, this is where we guess at the makeup of the final 16 (18ish with play-in) from the longlist. It's easier odds this year with only 68 books in the longlist so perhaps we'll get to use some of those darkhorse points to break the tie!)

Scoring goes by full points for correct main 15, extra points for correct play-in books, 0.5 points for correct books but incorrect location & tie-breakers by books <2 people picked.

Shortlist Competition Google Sheet is now posted:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

instructions are in the sheet - please only edit your own column!
Last Year the shortlist was released early in December 18th so I will freeze the sheet on December 16th to play it safe!

Haven't hit up Andrew for prizes yet but he always come through with swag for the winner!

Amy wrote: "Shortlist Competition Google Sheet is now posted:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

instructions are in the sheet - please only e..."

Awesome - thanks so much for setting this up!

It looks like it's protected from editing... can you change that setting? :)

Lauren wrote: "It looks like it's protected from editing... can you change that setting? :)"

Thanks Lauren! that was left over from 2020 freeze! It's fixed now but there will be a warning when editing your column now (just disregard).

Oh, this is always such fun. And I'm torn between choosing what I think will be included (Franzen) and what I want to be included.

Alison wrote: "Oh, this is always such fun. And I'm torn between choosing what I think will be included (Franzen) and what I want to be included."

Yes! I usually go more with what I want to see and end up being off by at least half of them... ;)

Looks like it's open now - thanks Amy!

Hell of a Book just won the NBA for fiction which means it’s practically guaranteed a spot on the shortlist!

Amy wrote: "Hell of a Book just won the NBA for fiction which means it’s practically guaranteed a spot on the shortlist!"

I just so happen to have it waiting for me at the library.....fortuitous timing.

Amy wrote: "Hell of a Book just won the NBA for fiction which means it’s practically guaranteed a spot on the shortlist!"

Oh, yay!! That was one of my favorites this year, so much to discuss, I'm so glad it'll be included!

Elizabeth wrote: "Amy wrote: "Hell of a Book just won the NBA for fiction which means it’s practically guaranteed a spot on the shortlist!"

Oh, yay!! That was one of my favorites this year, so much ..."

Yes! Also happy to see that and I'll plan to reread it in print once the shortlist is announced.


For my predictions I'm trying to stick to new (to the ToB) authors only. This year's longlist has lots of books by authors we've seen before (a few who have won roosters!) and while I'm interested in some of them like the Everett, Nguyen, Whitehead, and Ozeki books, I'd like to see new folks in the spotlight. I haven't been around long enough to catch whether it's common for shortlists to include more than one or two books by authors who have already been featured in previous years' shortlists. Can anyone remember if there's a trend there or not?

It is certainly not unheard of: (Jesmyn Ward, Jennifer Egan, David Mitchell e.g.) but I would not expect more than one repeat and it'll have to be a 'not to be missed' one since most of these generate their own buzz given the familiarity of the authors.

Has there been an author shortlisted 3 times? Several twice, but can't think of any who hit 3. I doubt it is a hard and fast rule because ToB doesn't seem to have many hard and fast rules. I feel like if anyone has an inside track at that, it is likely Everett as John Warner has repeatedly called him the best Novelist in America. But again, I know he contributes book ideas but not sure how much decision-making capital he has.

Kip wrote: "I feel like if anyone has an inside track at that, it is likely Everett as John Warner has repeatedly called him the best Novelist in America. But again, I know he contributes book ideas but not sure how much decision-making capital he has...."

I hope he has a lot because I'm reading The Trees now and it is perfect.

Kip wrote: "Has there been an author shortlisted 3 times? Several twice, but can't think of any who hit 3."

I don't think that there is anyone that has made the shortlist three times, but I count 6(!) people that have the chance this year:

Colson Whitehead
Gary Sheteyngart
Jhumpa Lahiri
Lauren Groff
Percival Everett
Richard Powers

Of these, I think that Percival Everett likely has the best chance of being our first three-peat, since from what I have heard of The Trees (I haven't read it yet) it's both good and important. But actually, before I realized that there were no three timers, I also had pretty good feelings about Matrix, although I admit I am a total Groff fangirl.

Amy wrote: "It is certainly not unheard of: (Jesmyn Ward, Jennifer Egan, David Mitchell e.g.) but I would not expect more than one repeat and it'll have to be a 'not to be missed' one since most of these gener..."

For the record, from a quick review this morning, there are at least 24 people that have been on the shortlist twice, which is way more than I would have guessed.

Alison wrote: "Oh, this is always such fun. And I'm torn between choosing what I think will be included (Franzen) and what I want to be included."

This is always the hardest decision! I wish I could try out two versions.

Maggie wrote: "Amy wrote: "It is certainly not unheard of: (Jesmyn Ward, Jennifer Egan, David Mitchell e.g.) but I would not expect more than one repeat and it'll have to be a 'not to be missed' one since most of..."

Oh wow - that's a lot!

Thanks for all the stats, y'all. I'd be fine with a few three-peats I guess, especially the Everett since I already have a copy of The Trees and it sounds great. :)

Thank you Amy for creating and managing the Shortlist Competition Google Sheet!

Ugh, I cannot figure out how to handle the play-in round. I suck at this so very much. :(

The shortlist is out! https://themorningnews.org/article/th...

Phyllis wrote: "The shortlist is out! https://themorningnews.org/article/th..."

SO EARLY!!! I was not prepared!

It looks like I got six correct if you count one that I thought would be on the main list but it's a play-in. Not sure how those points are added up. Anyone get most of these correct?

I'm devastated we won't be discussing Hell of a Book, Infinite Country, or The Man Who Lived Underground. Also surprised we're not getting to The Promise, which I haven't read yet but have a copy of. This might be my least favorite short list since I've followed the ToB, but I could get over it if the Ozeki, Kitamura, Everett, Norris, or Erdrich do well I guess. :/

No Booker or NBA winner. that's a shocker. But, I did guess two of the three play-in books for 9 of 18 correct.

There are three books here that I deeply loved, and I'm so happy to see them on the short list--

The Trees
When We Cease to Understand the World
All's Well

There are three I found completely bland and pointless:

The Book of Form and Emptiness
The Echo Wife
No One Is Talking About This

I have zero interest in reading either more Shteyngart, or more Rooney, ever in this lifetime, so that's 5 I'm disappointed about, personally, and I'm hoping Klara gets knocked out in the first round, because it's at least the third time Ishiguro has told this story.

The rest look interesting!

Lauren wrote: "I'm devastated we won't be discussing Hell of a Book, Infinite Country, or The Man Who Lived Underground. Also surprised we're not getting to The Promise, which I haven't read yet but have a copy of...."

I agree, Lauren. These omissions are baffling and possibly unforgivable. It's not like they were completely going for "let's give small books a chance" as a strategy either since they have Ishiguro on there.

Ishiguro got an automatic entry. Hell of a Book is disappointing. I'm in the middle of it and will finish. There are more books I'm excited to read on the list than I can get thru by March so I can't complain.

lark wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I'm devastated we won't be discussing Hell of a Book, Infinite Country, or The Man Who Lived Underground. Also surprised we're not getting to The Promise, which I haven't read yet bu..."

Most seem to be Big 5, actually...Just glancing randomly I saw FSG, S&S, Viking and two Riverheads.

Well at least Bewilderment isn’t on the list. Hated that book! And didn’t much like Second Place or Whereabouts or Popisho. So there’s that! But I just finished Infinite Country and loved it. Haven’t even written a review yet. Also loved Detransition Baby. Bye bye. So the shortlist. No one blah blah blah and that’s how I feel about that. I actually love Klara and Matrix - wholeheartedly approve. They are both magical. I’m listening to The Echo Wife in the car. Its a good car book. Is that what they call faint praise? I’ll try to read the rest. I own Alls Well and the Ozeki. That’s next.

Oh, I’m so disappointed about Hell of a Book and Cloud Cuckoo Land, I was really sure they would be featured and imagined trying to choose between them in the final. Such a bummer.

Darn I was just checking in here to post my shortlist predictions, too late!

There are some books I loved on this list and I few I'm very keen to get to so overall, I'm happy. Time to place library holds!

Whelp! On the plus side, early shortlist (and culling of TBR piles) Apologies to all those folks eager for bragging rights on their predictive skills!

Karin wrote: "Oh, I’m so disappointed about Hell of a Book and Cloud Cuckoo Land, I was really sure they would be featured and imagined trying to choose between them in the final. Such a bummer."

Hell of a Book I finished yesterday and Cloud Cuckoo just before. I managed 5 of the long list since its announcement and NONE made the short list. #sigh

With the early shortlist comes a SUPER EARLY zombie vote deadline! December 10th!

Having only read two of the books, and both of them fine but not to my zombie-level passion, that gives me a week to maybe find a potential zombie-worthy book. Sigh.

Amy wrote: "Whelp! On the plus side, early shortlist (and culling of TBR piles) Apologies to all those folks eager for bragging rights on their predictive skills!"

Does that mean you are not going to announce a winner?

I read (and loved) Klara for Camp ToB and after the long list came out, I started Trees and Prophets. I was 1 for 2. If I get everything else read, I'll give No One is Talking About This another try but my first reaction was "Blech, why?" after only a few pages.

Trees is really good so far, much better IMO than Telephone was.

I’m terms of bragging rights, 9 of 18 is pretty amazing Jason, I got 7 and was feeling cocky!

Jason wrote: "Amy wrote: "Whelp! On the plus side, early shortlist (and culling of TBR piles) Apologies to all those folks eager for bragging rights on their predictive skills!"

Does that mean you are not going..."

If nine is the highest number of correct guesses feel free to start bragging! :) Do we normally send a book to the winner of this spreadsheet, or for the tournament bracket predictions? I remember sending a book to someone last year... was it you, Jason??

For some reason I thought Everyone Knows Your Mother is a Witch got to automatically advance due to Camp TOB? But I guess not.

I loved that book. I did NOT like the Rooney book. The Strout book was okay but I'm not sad it didn't make it through. Those are the only ones from the long list that I'd read. Time to start working on the short list.

I can't believe I am going to have to read the Rooney book! I was practicing self control in not reading things I didn't like!
I've read ten of the books so far, and The Trees and When We Cease to Understand the World are my two standouts. A lot of the rest was pretty meh (Ozeki (love her just not this book), Kitamura, Ishiguro, Greenidge, Groff (I know!), Lockwood). To be honest, 2021 wasn't the best year for me in terms of new releases.

On the plus side I like the more translated fiction! I am also surprised by the omission of both Hell of a Book and The Promise, as both were really substantial books and would have been good for analysis (and frankly much better than most of the shortlist!)

I'm thrilled that the Groff made it - loved it. I will definitely read the Everett and Erdrich, as they're on their way from the library. We'll see how many of the rest I get around to...

No Bewilderment is the shocker to me. On the plus side, it’s my favorite book of the year and I don’t really want to see it shredded by a judge or in the comments.

I’m still laughing that Several People are Typing is here. I saw it at my local bookstore and bought it without knowing anything about it. As someone who is glued to Slack all day long at work, I found it pretty funny (but also, so weird) and it’ll be fun to see the discussion.

No no no no no - NOT SALLY ROONEY! Oh, well. At least no Franzen. I

I've got a lot of work cut out for me. Only read 3.

Lauren wrote: "Do we normally send a book..."

If it's me, don't send a book. That's for the actual tournament. This is just a big guessing game. The only bragging I wanted was that I got the play-in mostly right.

@Anita, Klara and the Sun won Camp ToB so got the automatic advance. 🙂

Anita wrote: "For some reason I thought Everyone Knows Your Mother is a Witch got to automatically advance due to Camp TOB? But I guess not. ."
I know someone already said so, but that's why Klara is there. I have retold the story in my mind too as I also picked Everyone Knows as the winner. :)

lark wrote: "There are three I found completely bland and pointless:

The Book of Form and Emptiness
The Echo Wife
No One Is Talking About This

I have zero interest in reading either more Shteyngart...."

I agree on The Echo Wife (while liking the author's other works) and No One, ugh I mean seriously? I have the Ozeki at home from the library but I've already let it sit there for one checkout period and renewed it without ever reading any of it, whoops.

I've already bailed on the Shteyngart so I'm not going to try again. I don't know what happened because I liked Super Sad Love Story but ever since, blandness reigns.

Lauren wrote: "I'm devastated we won't be discussing Hell of a Book, Infinite Country, or The Man Who Lived Underground.."
I still haven't read Infinite Country and kind of assumed I would be doing so for the shortlist!

Holy crap. If I can count (not guaranteed), I think I picked 11 of the shortlist.

Some of the picks felt obvious, but at the same time I assumed Hell of a Book and Nightbitch were going to make the shortlist and I would have said those were obvious so what the heck do I know, anyway?

I didn't guess the Sally Rooney because I didn't want to read it, but I also guessed The Trees because the ToB seems to like Percival Everett and I don't want to read that either. So I'm not really consistent.

Nice work Joe! That's impressive!

Thank you Mindy and Jenny. Thatat makes sense. Idk why I thought Everyone was the winner.