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Stoker, Dracula
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Week 5 - Dracula, Chapters 15-18
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CHAPTER XVIDR SEWARD’S DIARY—(continued)
Lucy previously wrote: P.P.S.—We are to be married on 28 September. The night of 28-29th of September is a honeymoon of sorts but not quite the honeymoon anyone imagined.
Then he struck with all his might. The Thing in the coffin writhed; and a hideous, blood-curdling screech came from the opened red lips. The body shook and quivered and twisted in wild contortions; the sharp white teeth champed together till the lips were cut, and the mouth was smeared with a crimson foam.After it is over, the men describe Lucy's beautiful corpse as no longer a foul beauty but redeemed,
There, in the coffin lay no longer the foul Thing that we had so dreaded and grown to hate that the work of her destruction was yielded as a privilege to the one best entitled to it, but Lucy as we had seen her in her life, with her face of unequalled sweetness and purity. True that there were there, as we had seen them in life, the traces of care and pain and waste; but these were all dear to us, for they marked her truth to what we knew. One and all we felt that the holy calm that lay like sunshine over the wasted face and form was only an earthly token and symbol of the calm that was to reign for ever.How else could we say the beauty of the un-dead Lucy and the true dead Lucy differ? Van Helsing interestingly chooses to have Arthur drive the stake through Lucy, but sends him away while he and Dr. Seward cut off the head and fill her mouth with garlic, why, and what does that say about Van Helsing?
CHAPTER XVII - The Team AssemblesDR SEWARD’S DIARY—(continued)
Van Helsing is finally distributing information by giving out Mina's typewritten notes to Dr. Seward.
MINA HARKER’S JOURNAL
Dr. Sewards awkward excuse of the limitation of finding specific entries in his phonograph diary prompts Mina to offer to type it all out for him. At first Dr. Seward reluctant but is persuaded when Mina reminds him he will know all about her too, and her husband, after reading her typewritten notes. Mina thus breaks down another barrier to information sharing.
DR SEWARD’S DIARY
Mina gets it, and lets Dr. Seward know,
We need have no secrets amongst us; working together and with absolute trust, we can surely be stronger than if some of us were in the dark.MINA HARKER’S JOURNAL
Mina types up Dr. Seward's diary recordings of Lucy's death for everyone to read and we also learn of her other detective work in collecting the newspaper clippings.
DR SEWARD’S DIARY
Dr. Seward records that Jonathan Harker's business-like and gentlemanly appearance bely the specimen of daring manhood he is. Does this description contradict the criticism of his clueless behavior during his business trip to the Castle Dracula. Dr. Seward does make a good point when he mentions Jonathan's second trip into Dracula's vault. Was it bravery, desperation, both?
Dr. Seward also records another epiphany,
Strange that it never struck me that the very next house might be the Count’s hiding-place!. . .Oh, if we had only had them earlier we might have saved poor Lucy! Stop; that way madness lies!Dr. Seward also makes the link to Dracula's proximity and Renfield's outbursts, thanks to being able to line up dates from Mina's typewritten notes. What is really in those boxes, just earth; why so many of them?
CHAPTER XVII - continuedJONATHAN HARKER’S JOURNAL
Jonathan writes of his findings in Whitby establishing the care Dracula had taken in his plans and confirming the cargo of 50 boxes of common earth were delivered to Carfax. He also buys a bunch of drinks for the workers who moved the boxes around. Thanks to Dr. Seward's notes, he knows he needs to follow-up with the carter who removed some of the boxes from Carfax when Renfield attacked them.
MINA HARKER’S JOURNAL
While feeling proud of their efforts Mina stifles any pity she would have for Dracula.
I suppose one ought to pity any thing so hunted as is the Count. That is just it: this Thing is not human—not even beast. To read Dr Seward’s account of poor Lucy’s death, and what followed, is enough to dry up the springs of pity in one’s heart.Later, Mina is up front with Arthur and Quincey as she gives them her typewritten notes to date. The mothering instinct comes out in Mina at the men's grief. Arthur breaks down and Quincey bears it more stoically. Mina notes here, indicating this entry at least was edited later, that Quincy proved himself a friend.
CHAPTER XVIIIDR SEWARD’S DIARY
Mina is introduced to Renfield, who appears calm and surprisingly erudite in conveying in the manner of a polished gentleman that he is eerily aware of events. Upon parting, Renfield politely wishes he never has the occasion to meet Mina again; I wonder why?
Van Helsing arrives and the testosterone comes flowing out: Wonderful Madam Mina has a man brain and a woman's heart and her role in the group must now come to an end due to the horror, hardships and danger ahead despite her contributions to the efforts so far. Van Helsing also dismisses the discovery that Dracula's house is next to the asylum and the possibility this information could have saved Lucy as, split milk.
MINA HARKER’S JOURNAL (Vampire Rules to un-live by.)
Van Helsing provides a breakdown of what they are up against. Were there any surprises here? What about learning the grave of a suicide is considered unhallowed ground allowing Dracula to use it as a hiding place while his boxes were still under scrutiny on the ship or being loaded and transported to Carfax. The fact Dracula can get around in the daylight is confirmed, albeit without his powers, except at sunrise, noon, and sunset. The rules create quite a sizable list, what stuck out to you? Any ah-ha moments as previous vampire behavior or events now have an explanation?
DR SEWARD’S DIARY
Renfield desperately begs to be freed or even moved chained and manacled in necessary away from the asylum. When he realizes he will not be freed, he ominously tells Dr. Seward to remember how hard he tried to convince the doctor to let him go. We may all do well to remember it. I wonder why Renfield wants to get away so badly now?
The thing that stood out for me in this week's reading was Mina. I like how Stoker has portrayed her. I'm thoroughly impressed with her intelligence and abilities. She is competent and a tower of strength. I love her efficiency in typing up all the relevant materials and in helping to establish a timeline. She is astute at reading people and knows what to say to set their minds at ease. She is also very nurturing. Kudos to Stoker for portraying a woman who is intelligent, articulate, competent, resourceful, and nurturing--a woman who is more than just a pretty face.
Do you agree with Van Helsing's assessment and decision to end Mina's involvement in the battle with Dracula?‘Ah, that wonderful Madam Mina! She has man’s brain—a brain that a man should have were he much gifted—and woman’s heart. . .fortune has made that woman of help to us; after tonight she must not have to do with this so terrible affair
Why is Mina addressed as Madam Mina and Lucy is addressed as Miss Lucy, or more often referred to as, poor Lucy? Why do we never read, Madam Lucy?
David wrote: "Why is Mina addressed as Madam Mina and Lucy is addressed as Miss Lucy, or more often referred to as, poor Lucy? Why do we never read, Madam Lucy?"I remember when I was growing up in England, a married woman was addressed as "Madam." I don't know if this is still the case. Mina is married; therefore, she is addressed as Madam. Lucy was never married, so she is address as Miss or as "poor" Lucy because of what she has been through.
David wrote: "Do you agree with Van Helsing's assessment and decision to end Mina's involvement in the battle with Dracula?‘Ah, that wonderful Madam Mina! She has man’s brain—a brain that a man should have we..."
I'm not sure. On the one hand, I think she has the strength of character to handle it. On the other hand, Dracula's penchant for pretty young women makes her more likely to be his next target.
I like that he recognizes she combines both masculine and feminine qualities.
Tamara wrote: "I remember when I was growing up in England, a married woman was addressed as "Madam."The letter from Sister Agatha to MIss Wilhelmina Murray begins, Dear Madam,- so I am not sure that Madam was reserved exclusively for married women, but more of a polite and formal form of address for any women. The meaning here being, Mina seems to receive more respect from others than Lucy did, why?
Tamara wrote: "I'm not sure. On the one hand, I think she has the strength of character to handle it. On the other hand, Dracula's penchant for pretty young women makes her more likely to be his next target."I would think Jonathan would be next on Dracula's for somehow surviving with the knowledge he has from his visit and the real-estate dealings. I am sure Dracula is aware by now that Jonathan is alive; the bat Quincey takes a shot at is mostly likely the Count listening in on their meeting.
I felt the men's attitudes toward Mina's perceived frailties as a woman were patronizing, especially in light of all she has done so far. Her forensic organization is clearly an asset in the "resources of science" category of weapons they have against Dracula. Plus she has seen Dracula on two occasions and can identify him.
An historic day with a woman's identity in the US on trial, it is heartening to read Stoker's very non-Victorian appraisal of Mina. She is the springboard of the group's actions; actually she is the very force that brings the men together into a group. Stoker makes this very clear. She brings all the men to trust her and each other.Tamara said: wait--not Tamara, David says: I felt the men's attitudes toward Mina's perceived frailties as a woman were patronizing. Yes exactly, patronizing, very much in the Victorian mold. Historicity, David, the men are behaving like the men of the period. It is Stoker who shows the light. VH we can expect to have the Old World view of women.
And the way Mina brings each of the men to show the depths of feeling that they would not show to the other men. That also goes to show why they were so guarded in disclosing the clues they held individually. It was a different world than what we know today. Notice how once Arthur's father dies and Arthur now inherits the title, VH begins calling him Lord Goldarnamong. Deference to the aristocratic order. I only came to understand this in Proust, which is the same period in France. An aristocrat would not even speak to or acknowledge someone if they had not been introduced, even upon direct confrontation. It just wasn't done. Living in a classless society as we do now, it is difficult to comprehend fundamental differences of a class society even though we think our minds are almost the same. Men were always guarded and would be unlikely to reveal secrets even to their friends.
I'm so happy to see Mina brought out this way.
Tamara wrote: "David wrote: "Do you agree with Van Helsing's assessment and decision to end Mina's involvement in the battle with Dracula?‘Ah, that wonderful Madam Mina! She has man’s brain—a brain that a man s..."
Actually I didn't like how van Helsing dichotomized qualities on the basis of sex although I do like how he appreciated both qualities in Mina. Why should the man be gifted with the brain and the woman with the heart? I've always found it easy to get good grades but I've heard from many older people (especially my mom) that I lack the feminine and nurturing qualities. My brother, my son and my husband is much more considerate and sensitive and affectionate than I am and I've found that most of my med school girlfriends are always at the top of the class.
Reading on Stoker's bibliography, I found out that his mother was probably the model for Mina.
David wrote: "CHAPTER XVIDR SEWARD’S DIARY—(continued)
Lucy previously wrote: P.P.S.—We are to be married on 28 September. The night of 28-29th of September is a honeymoon of sorts but not quite the honeymoon a..."
Thanks, David for recognizing Lucy's honeymoon date. This gave me the impression that the choice of Arthur as the one who drives the stake through her heart might have some allusion to the experience of sexual penetration.
I've also found this double measure odd. Lucy seems to have been saved from her undead state by the stake - why the beheading and the garlic? (Is it to prevent her from being retaken by Dracula?) The choice of van Helsing to perform the beheading himself might be due to some expertise required by the medical profession in beheading or out of consideration for Arthur. Even as a med student I felt some queasiness in observing operations on the facial area whereas I'm totally okay with orthopedic or general surgery involving the trunk or extremities. I know the leg or the belly belongs to a person as much as the eyes but it's ingrained in the psyche, I guess. The face/head feels much more personal and seems to be more closely related to the individual soul/mind.
David wrote: "CHAPTER XVII - The Team AssemblesDR SEWARD’S DIARY—(continued)
Van Helsing is finally distributing information by giving out Mina's typewritten notes to Dr. Seward.
MINA HARKER’S JOURNAL
Dr. Sewa..."
Yes, why so many? Is it reserved for his future colony of victims? or to make it harder to find his own resting place out of so many decoys?
Borum wrote: "This gave me the impression that the choice of Arthur as the one who drives the stake through her heart might have some allusion to the experience of sexual penetration. "Yes, there are so many comparisons possible between killing the vampire Lucy, gruesome as it is, to the sex act it is hard to overlook even if one wanted to. To carry it further, can anything being said about men or the need of a male to purify corrupt women through sex? Would we feel differently if anybody but Arthur drove the stake? What if Mina had been present and was, as her best friend, asked to do it?
Borum wrote: "The choice of van Helsing to perform the beheading himself might be due to some expertise required by the medical profession in beheading or out of consideration for Arthur"
I agree and think it was mostly out of consideration for Arthur, who had probably been through enough. We are not told in Dracula why these extra steps are taken after driving the stake through her heart. I suppose if she is going to struggle against people attempting to kill her, trying to remove her head or stuff her mouth with garlic would be a more difficult first move than stabbing her with a stake. Dr. Seward records,
...the Professor and I sawed the top off the stake, leaving the point of it in the body.Whether that was done more to allow the coffin to be closed up again, or to keep Dracula from removing the stake to reanimate her, we cannot be certain, but I think it is only the movies tjhat would have us believe vampires can come back after removing the stake.
Borum wrote: "Yes, why so many? Is it reserved for his future colony of victims? or to make it harder to find his own resting place out of so many decoys?"Good questions. At some point in my Dracula reading career I panicked and thought Dracula brought 49 friends with him; this is wrong and it does not make sense for D to bring so much competition. I think any vampires he creates in England would bound to boxes filled with English earth and not Transylvanian earth. I suggest Dracula intends on hiding them all over London as secret resting places for himself. The more he distributes, the harder he will be to track down.
We already know that some number of boxes were removed from Carfax when Renfield escaped and attacked the movers shouting,
‘I’ll frustrate them! They shan’t rob me! they shan’t murder me by inches! I’ll fight for my Lord and Master!’ and all sorts of similar incoherent ravings.
REPORT FROM PATRICK HENNESSEY, TO JOHN SEWARD, M.D. (Chapter 12)
We have already had a few examples of some great writing from this work. I would like to submit this unsettling description of Lucy's tomb at night.The tomb in the day-time, and when wreathed with fresh flowers, had looked grim and gruesome enough; but now, some days afterwards, when the flowers hung lank and dead, their whites turning to rust and their greens to browns; when the spider and the beetle had resumed their accustomed dominance; when time-discoloured stone, and dust-encrusted mortar, and rusty, dank iron, and tarnished brass, and clouded silver-plating gave back the feeble glimmer of a candle, the effect was more miserable and sordid than could have been imagined. It conveyed irresistibly the idea that life—animal life—was not the only thing which could pass away.
I thought Van Helsing had Arthur stake Lucy as some sense of purposeful closure for Arthur i.e he rids the monster Lucy had become which allowed the Lucy he loved to be the body in the coffin of which he can say that final goodbye knowing she was at peace. Lucy as we had seen her in life . And for that reason VH sends Arthur away when they mutilate the body through decapitation, so he can preserve that last image.
I loved that Mina was given such a prominent role in bringing all the information together in a cohesive way. I certainly appreciated VH's observation of her intellect and contributions to their efforts to track Dracula. My delight was dashed when he forbade her to work any further with them. Just an example that no matter how forward-thinking you may become, it is hard to overcome one's biases of one's culture and upbringing.
I also thought VH referred to Mina as Madam Mina because of her marital status.
In chapter XIII when we learn about the characteristics and behavior of vampires, there were only a couple that I had not heard before. 1) They could roam during the day but without their full powers and 2) If you are turned while sleeping or in a trance you retain your looks . However, Dracula seemed to look younger r/t being able to partake more frequently of life's blood? Another way to retain one's looks?
I found the scene with Renfield very interesting and foreboding.
David wrote: Upon parting, Renfield politely wishes he never has the occasion to meet Mina again; I wonder why?
I think Renfield knows he can not escape Dracula, his Master, and fears that if he sees Mina again it will mean she would be in the Dracula's thrall.
David wrote: "Who killed Lucy?"It depends what you mean by killed :)
If you mean who killed Lucy the human, presumably Dracula did by constantly draining her blood.
If you men who killed Lucy the vampire, the men killed her through collective effort.
Chris wrote: "I think Renfield knows he can not escape Dracula, his Master, and fears that if he sees Mina again it will mean she would be in the Dracula's thrall..."I read it the same way. I think Dracula is after Mina. If he wanted to go after Jonathan as David suggested @12, he could have easily done it while he had him in his clutches in Transylvania.
David wrote: "Borum wrote: "Yes, why so many? Is it reserved for his future colony of victims? or to make it harder to find his own resting place out of so many decoys?"Good questions. At some point in my Drac..."
We should also keep in mind that Dracula can apparently seek shelter in the graves of his victims,
For Miss Lucy, or from her, I have no fear; but that other to whom is there that she is Un-Dead, he have now the power to seek her tomb and find shelter.Fortunately they still have the element of surprise
NOTE LEFT BY VAN HELSING IN HIS PORTMANTEAU, BERKELEY HOTEL, DIRECTED TO JOHN SEWARD M.D. (Not delivered) 27 September.
But it may be that he will not attempt the place. There is no reason why he should; his hunting ground is more full of game than the churchyard where the UnDead woman sleep, and one old man watch
Dracula is not an ordinary vampire.The Draculas were, says Arminius, a great and noble race, though now and again were scions who were held by their coevals to have had dealings with the Evil One. They learned his secrets in the Scholomance, amongst the mountains over Lake Hermanstadt, where the devil claims the tenth scholar as his due.Does anyone know more about the Scholomance? A note in my edition only indicates simply that according to Romanian folklore, the Scholomance was a school where the devil teaches the secrets of nature.
Regrets, they had a fewI hinted earlier that the doctors voiced some regrets of their own. Dr. Seward says,
Strange that it never struck me that the very next house might be the Count’s hiding-place! Goodness knows that we had enough clues from the conduct of the patient Renfield! The bundle of letters relating to the purchase of the house were with the typescript. Oh, if we had only had them earlier we might have saved poor Lucy! Stop; that way madness lies!Van Helsing says,
‘Oh that we had known it before!’ he said, ‘for then we might have reached him in time to save poor Lucy. However, “the milk that is spilt cries not out afterwards,” as you say.Van Helsing also explains to Dr. Seward,
Madness were easy to bear compared with truth like this.It still seems their efforts to save Lucy fell short, despite finding out about Dracula late because Van Helsing seems to have suspected vampirism early on. If you are still disappointed in the poor choices made in dealing with Lucy's attacks, it seems unanimous, that way lies madness 🧛.
Mina is not out of the picture, I think. She's become too central to the gathering.There is more corroboration that VH withheld info because they might think him mad. Even at the tomb Arthur thinks the professor is playing tricks.
I just had a a shock. It's Renfield's miraculous turnaround when talking with Mina, using Latin arguments. Then Stoker goes into VH's monologue about how Dracula can control the storm, be large or small, take many forms. Aha that's the giveaway. Dracula has gotten into RenField's form. Renfield talks as Dracula might! It's Dracula himself. I betcha I betcha.
Sam wrote: "I just had a a shock. It's Renfield's miraculous turnaround when talking with Mina, using Latin arguments. Then Stoker goes into VH's monologue about how Dracula can control the storm, be large or ..."You know, all that special ability that Dracula has makes me wonder if it isn't all too easy for him to rule the world (or at least to be freed from the straitjacket and the asylum). Then again, there is his silly weakness to little things like garlic and the crucifix..
David wrote: "Dracula is not an ordinary vampire.The Draculas were, says Arminius, a great and noble race, though now and again were scions who were held by their coevals to have had dealings with the Evil On..."
The Scholomance[a] (Romanian: Șolomanță [ʃoloˈmantsə], Solomonărie [solomonəˈrie]) was a fabled school of black magic in Romania, especially in the region of Transylvania. It was run by the Devil according to folkloric accounts. The school enrolled about ten students to become the Solomonari. Courses taught included the speech of animals and magic spells. One of the graduates was chosen by the Devil to be the Weathermaker and tasked with riding a dragon to control the weather.
The school lay underground, and the students remained unexposed to sunlight for the seven-year duration of their study. The dragon (zmeu or balaur) was kept submerged in a mountaintop lake, south of Sibiu, according to some accounts.
An early source on the Scholomance and Dracula folklore was the article "Transylvanian Superstitions" (1885), written by Scottish expatriate Emily Gerard.[2][3] It has been established for certain this article was an important source that Bram Stoker consulted for his novel, Dracula.[b][6][4] Gerard also published similar material in Land Beyond the Forest (1888), which Stoker might have also read,[2] and other commentators stated this was Bram Stoker's direct source for Scholomance in his novel.
- from Wikipedia
So I guess it was something like Hogwart run by Dracula, the weather changer?
Sam wrote: "Mina is not out of the picture, I think. She's become too central to the gathering.There is more corroboration that VH withheld info because they might think him mad. Even at the tomb Arthur think..."
"...But I have not done. May I cut off the head of dead Miss Lucy?"
asked Quincey, "Great Scott! Is this a game?"
"It is."
Although van Helsing's dead serious, his abrupt timing and attitude always strikes my funny bone as spectacular deadpan humor. I wonder if it's just me or if it was Stoker's intention.
Borum said:You know, all that special ability that Dracula has makes me wonder if it isn't all too easy for him to rule the world.I've had this notion that we could turn this around. So far the story of "Dracula" is more about the Harkers, Lucy, Arthur, Seward, etc. everyone but Dracula. What if this is the story of Dracula. Make him the protagonist, or even anti-hero. Trying to make the world right, but having this addiction to blood. A curse. Then the garlic/kryptonite. These things always getting underfoot. These little people. When he has great dreams to rule the world. Then see the tale as indeed Dracula's story.
And another thing: Van Helsing's terrible English! Stoker has gone overboard to make him sound tongue-tied and stupid.
But VH is a philosopher, a medical doctor, he corresponds with international scientists, thinkers. Surely he hasn't gotten this far with such strangled English.
In Europe, especially Holland, many people speak English even better than I do. They go to England or the US and study it really hard to get pronunciation right. His sentence construction is not even a translation of Dutch or German. It's just gross. Why have him sound so stupid? He is really getting on my nerves.
Sam wrote: "And another thing: Van Helsing's terrible English! Stoker has gone overboard to make him sound tongue-tied and stupid.
But VH is a philosopher, a medical doctor, he corresponds with internation..."
And he's a lawyer! I had that experience in Holland as well. They spoke pretty fluent English and only the accent was a bit off. Considering van Helsing's intellectual prowess, it's pretty weird that he speaks worse English than Dracula
David wrote: "What is really in those boxes, just earth; why so many of them?"It's not clear in this iteration of mythology why Dracula needs to have so much soil with him. However, in some vampire media today, they need to sleep with their native soil and always carry some with them wherever they go. So possibly Dracula has no plans to go back to Transylvania and has tried to bring enough for centuries of itinerancy, anticipating that it'll gradually disappear in dust storms and the like.
Sam wrote: "And another thing: Van Helsing's terrible English! Stoker has gone overboard to make him sound tongue-tied and stupid.
But VH is a philosopher, a medical doctor, he corresponds with internation..."
This also bothers me. I teach communication in the Netherlands, and Van Helsing doesn't even sound like a Dutch person with a poor command of the language. Their proficiency in English goes back a long way, especially for educated globetrotters like him. I thought I was the only one who was bothered by it.
Sam wrote: "I've had this notion that we could turn this around. . .What if this is the story of Dracula. Make him the protagonist, or even anti-hero."That would put a the question of who killed Lucy in a different light.
Thanks Borum for the notes on the Scholomance. Jen wrote: in some vampire media today, they need to sleep with their native soil and always carry some with them wherever they go.
Another piece of lore that I didn't know or had forgotten. It would dovetail nicely with a previous comment about placing the boxes of soil in various places so that D would have a place to sleep/hide.
Borum wrote: "Sam wrote: "And another thing: Van Helsing's terrible English! ."In defense of Van Helsing's accent, would it matter that the story takes place in the 1890's? But your right, we are told Dracula's has better command of the English language than VH when Jonathan noted,
‘But, Count,’ I said, ‘you know and speak English thoroughly!but it is still a little off. . .,
The old man motioned me in with his right hand with a courtly gesture, saying in excellent English, but with a strange intonation:— ‘Welcome to my house! Enter freely and of your own will!Maybe we could just say VH's accent is well suited for a character in an English adventure novel that more prominently distinguishes him as belonging to an older generation from a location somewhere between modern England and old Europe with a cultural foothold in both?
Jen wrote: "David wrote: "What is really in those boxes, just earth; why so many of them?"It's not clear in this iteration of mythology why Dracula needs to have so much soil with him."
Like a real myth, we don't have enough information on the details of how things really work.
I am just glad that it seems Dracula cannot satisfy his earthen box requirements by simply carrying a little glass vial with a little teaspoon sized sample of earth around in his pocket.
Sam wrote: "Aha that's the giveaway. Dracula has gotten into RenField's form. Renfield talks as Dracula might! It's Dracula himself. I betcha I betcha."Interesting thought. While we are not told vampires can assume the form of other people, like he can the meaner animals, it would seem to imply that entail lunatics are less than human. Also, why would Dracula, if he were in the form of Renfield at the time, tell Mina,
‘Goodbye, my dear. I pray God I may never see your sweet face again. May He bless and keep you!’I would think he would say something more cruel and ominous like, "I trust we will meet again soon", or, "Do come again tomorrow and I will have you for dinner"?
David wrote: "Sam wrote: "Aha that's the giveaway. Dracula has gotten into RenField's form. Renfield talks as Dracula might! It's Dracula himself. I betcha I betcha."Interesting thought. While we are not told ..."
If he can assume the form of different humans, why didn't he assume the form of Jonathan when he had the chance or somebody else on the Demeter? It would have been a lot easier than traipsing all the way to England to take on the form of a different human.
We noted earlier that humans of a "sensitive" nature are more likely to be susceptible to the presence of vampires--or, at least, to something being out of joint. Perhaps Renfield is one of those individuals. Renfield is intelligent, articulate, and educated. But his sensitive nature plus his proximity to D's home is putting him off balance/driving him around the bend.
David wrote: "I would think he would say something more cruel and ominous like, "I trust we will meet again soon", or, "Do come again tomorrow and I will have you for dinner"?..."I got a good chuckle out of that :)
David wrote: "Borum wrote: "Sam wrote: "And another thing: Van Helsing's terrible English! ."In defense of Van Helsing's accent, would it matter that the story takes place in the 1890's? But your right, we are..."
Not really. If Dracula had been written in the Dutch of the 1890s, it would be just as comprehensible to a Dutch speaker in 2021 as it is to us.
Van Helsing is being portrayed as a non-native English speaker, but he doesn't make the mistakes that a native Dutch speaker would make in their 2nd language. For example, the Dutch have few problems with articles (a, an, the) in English, but he uses them more like a speaker of a Slavic language, which doesn't have separate words for them.
Mina's notes on VH's long exposition on all the "rules" about vampires includes this puzzling passage: "There have been from the loins of this very one great men and good women, and their graves make sacred the earth where alone this foulness can dwell. For it is not the least of its terrors that this evil thing is rooted deep in all good; in soil barren of holy memories it cannot rest."This raises more questions for me than it answers. If this foulness can only dwell in this particular earth, then isn't it contradictory to also say that it is "rooted deep in all good"? The soil *needs* holy memories in order for Dracula's soul to rest there? An interesting proposition, but if "all good" has roots in it of this evil thing, wouldn't there be a lot more vampires than there are? Also, it seems like sterilizing the earth, as VH suggests, won't be an effective antidote.
I feel like I'm tying myself up in knots here. Help, anyone?
Kathy wrote: "Mina's notes on VH's long exposition on all the "rules" about vampires includes this puzzling passage: "There have been from the loins of this very one great men and good women, and their graves ma..."I will attempt an answer. I agree the passage is confusing, and made so by
There have been from the loins of this very one. . .This makes it seem like Van Helsing is implying Count Dracula's offspring, whether or not he was a vampire at the time or not. Maybe this was behind the count's response to the three ladies,
‘Yes, I too can love; you yourselves can tell it from the past. Is it not so?I think all that VH is suggesting here is that Dracula can only rest in the earth of his noble ancestors/family, some or most of whom were good and their interments on the family grounds consecrated the soil, in a way, and without that soil he cannot rest properly.
Later in Chapter 22: Van Helsing will revisit this point when he says(view spoiler)
It is also a scary way of bringing to mind the dual and mutually dependent natures of good an evil.
This is probably the passage that most inspires the poetic licenses taken up by various post-Dracula productions attempting to explain Dracula's origins and how a man who was once a defender of the faith fell from grace and became a vampire.
Jen wrote: "David wrote: "Borum wrote: "Sam wrote: "And another thing: Van Helsing's terrible English! ."In defense of Van Helsing's accent, would it matter that the story takes place in the 1890's? But your..."
@44 Jen -- thank you for sharing your perceptive knowledge on the topic. (Yes, I can be a linguistic nut about the insights available by looking closely at language and its usage.)
Lily wrote: "Jen wrote: "David wrote: "Borum wrote: "Sam wrote: "And another thing: Van Helsing's terrible English! ."There are several foreign characters with accents in the work. Quncey Morris, Abraham Van Helsing, and Dracula. Quincey's accent is described as funny, Van Helsing's is demonstrably funny, i.e., comic relief, and Dracula's, a mirror of English but for intonation, is threatening. We will have to see how these non-native speakers fair in the end and compare those outcomes from a linguistically xenophobic English perspective. In the meantime, it may also help to think about Abraham Van Helsing's terrible English in light of the curious fact that Bram Stoker named the character after himself.
Borum wrote: "David wrote: "Dracula is not an ordinary vampire.The Draculas were, says Arminius, a great and noble race, though now and again were scions who were held by their coevals to have had dealings wit..."
Oddly enough, the Scholomancers/Solomonari were not an evil force in Romanian mythology. They were a sort of shamans able to control the weather and possess beasts like bears, wolves and hawks. They were often seen riding dragons.
The origin of the "Solomonari" are the ancient "Kapnobatai" mentioned by the greek historian Strabo. They are a Thracian tribe/caste known for their dietary restriction of not consuming living things, thus solely living on berries, milk and honey.
Like the Kapnobatai, the Solomonari have a strong bond with nature and they are not allowed to harm any living things. Their vegan diet also excludes root and underground vegetables such as carrot, garlic, onion etc, to prevent the entire plant from getting uprooted and killed.
Dracula and other vampires could be seen as renegade scholomancers: they possess the knowledge of controlling the beasts and the elements but they consume blood, the essence of life.
Ah, so it's the soil of his own ancestors. I missed that. Thanks, David, for the clarification. (I am behind you all but hoping to catch up this week!)
DR SEWARD’S DIARY—(continued)
Dr. Seward sums up his resistance to the idea that Lucy is the bloofer lady by misquoting Byron on jealousy,I wonder if there is anything implied by the jealousy aspect of that quote? Van Helsing explains he held back his knowledge from Dr. Seward in order to break it to him gently. The doctors confirm the bite marks on a child in the hospital appear similar to Lucy's, grab a bite to eat, a little mini communion, perhaps, before going to Lucy's tomb which they discover is empty; Dr. Seward still resists the idea suggesting her body was stolen. The men lie in wait but only manage to save a child in time from being bitten, and withdraw for the night. Dr. Seward remains unconvinced.
The next night, Dr. Seward tries to resist believing Van Helsing upon discovering Lucy's body is returned to her coffin but eventually grants his reluctant assent. We get more disturbing description of her beauty despite being dead for a week.Van Helsing also reveals that Lucy seems to be a special case and has kept her beauty because she was bitten by a vampire while in a trance, sleep-waling and died will in a trance and admits her beauty makes it harder for him to kill her in her sleep. Finally Van Helsing decides he must wait to kill her another night in order to convince Arthur and Quincey of the reality of the situation as he had Dr. Seward.
NOTE LEFT BY VAN HELSING IN HIS PORTMANTEAU, (not delivered)
Van Helsing leaves instructions and his collection of notes and diaries for Dr. Seward to carry on should something happen to him while he watches over Lucy's tomb.
DR SEWARD’S DIARY
After sleeping on it, Dr. Seward renews his reluctance to Van Helsing's ideas again to the point of suspecting him to be a formidable and dangerous madman. Later, Van Helsing convinces Arthur and Quncey to come along with Dr. Seward and him to open Lucy's coffin and cut off her head. Quincey seems more willing to hear Van Helsing out, Arthur decries every step of the plan and decides to go along out of curiosity and to monitor events.