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Eisenhower in War and Peace
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WE ARE OPEN - WEEK THREE - EISENHOWER IN WAR AND PEACE - February 16th ~ February 22nd - CHAPTER THREE - The Peacetime Army (49 - 73) No-Spoilers
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However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.
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The third week’s reading assignment is:
Week Three - February 16th, 2015 to February 22nd, 2015
Chapter Three: The Peacetime Army - pages 49 - 73
Chapter Overview and Summary
Chapter 3: The Peacetime Army
No human enterprise goes flat so instantly as an Army training camp when war ends.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
Eisenhower is ordered to dismantle Camp Colt. From there he went to Fort Dix followed by Fort Benning in Georgia. Ike worries about becoming a paper pusher and Mamie warns him about leaving. He was then tranferred to Camp Meade with the remainder of the tank corps.
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The author Jean Edward Smith writes:
"Instead of going overseas, Eisenhower was ordered to dismantle Camp Colt. “Nothing at West Point or in the forty months since graduation had prepared me for helping to collapse an Army from millions to a peacetime core, “ Ike wrote. “As quickly as possible, we were to clear the site we had occupied for nine months, complete our records, then move to Fort Dix where we would await final orders."
Eisenhower arrived at Fort Dix in mid-December, 1918, with six thousand men and three Renault tanks. From there he was ordered with the remnant of the American tank corps to Fort Benning, Georgia. After discharges, separations, and transfers only three hundred of the original six thousand remained.
The eight-hundred-mile trip from New Jersey to Georgia by low-priority Army troop train took four days and, as Ike recalled, each day seemed like a year: There was no heat in the passenger cars, no electricity, no hot water, and field rations were cooked on camp stoves in the baggage car."
Topics for Discussion:
1 What are all of you thinking about Ike's military luck? Why do you think that Ike worried about his career?
2. Mamie rarely interfered - but what did you think of the counsel she gave her husband. Was it well founded and what were your thoughts about how well she knew her husband and his skill set?
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So check it out.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Regarding military luck, being part of the tank corps, it must have been tougher. You begin to appreciate the forward thinking from Ike. I forgot that Patton and Ike wrote about tank tactics, and they got into trouble. Then you get this crazy peacetime army, major budget slashing. It most likely was the reaction to WW1 and presidents who wanted to push for more fiscal control. It really contradicts what was happening even before WWI with spending to build up military forces reaching far back as the 1880s and 1890s (becoming the Great White Fleet with TR.)
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I agree about the crazy peacetime army - I think folks just bury their head in the sand and of course accompanied by wishful thinking as to how you would like the world to be - shoot themselves in the foot. I am sure that there is a happy medium and when you look at the Pentagon - you have to believe that things have gotten out of control. A dilemma.
The information about Patton in this chapter was interesting. I knew he was an unusual individual, but I didn't realize quite how extreme he was. Smith writes "Patton was a loner: highly opinionated, ultraconservative, bigoted, and racist." p. 54This is probably old news, but it was shocking to me. Recently I read in the New York Times about the bad treatment concentration camp victims received under Patton's command. He was harshly criticized by an official named Harrison whom Truman sent to investigate. In his journal, Patton wrote: “Harrison and his ilk believe that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews who are lower than animals...”
See http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/sun...
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Fascinating to read what others are making of this book. Having reached chapter 6, at this stage, I do not yet know whether I warm to the man. As to whether he was lucky, I feel uneasy at his use of socialising and badgering to boost his career prospects, brown-nosing, or was it expected of a career soldier? I recall in an earlier chapter when he claimed to have voiced his disagreement with his commander but Smith does not support this. In addition his logistical expertise is lauded with examples to back this up. I find a shortage of similar examples re leadership but these may come in later chapters. Well written and an easy read so will keep going and see if my opinions change with the times.
I know very little about Eisenhower prior to reading this book and even less about Patton, so this has been an interesting read. I was a little surprised that Eisenhower was almost court-marshaled for receiving pay on vouchers expensed after Ikey died. I guess I would have thought that it would be easy to explain away, but do understand that they might view it as trying to defraud the Army.
Was sad to see that their son's death put such a strain on Mamie and Ike's relationship. I don't think that Mamie really knew Ike and his military strengths that well. I had assumed she was more in love with him and hadn't truly paid attention to his military career. I think she was a little sheltered by not being with him all of the time and staying back in Denver with her family.
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Stan be careful this is a non spoiler thread. We are only discussing up through Chapter Three.
I think you are alright with your comment however.
1 What are all of you thinking about Ike's military luck? Why do you think that Ike worried about his career? I wouldn’t necessarily call Ike’s career path lucky at this moment. He had, for lack of a better word, ingratiated himself with the right people. First with Patton, who recommended Ike profusely to General Fox Conner, then to Fox Conner himself. Had he been a less agreeable person, then Patton or Gen. Conner might not have taken notice of him. But because he meshed better with Patton than one might have thought, and because he was willing to learn everything he could from Gen. Conner, I think that spoke volumes to them about his own talents.
I think Ike worried about his career because he couldn’t see himself doing anything else at this stage. When one attends West Point and then volunteers for a cutting edge military unit, in this case the tank corps, its obvious that they are pinning their future prospects on a military career. So, when his career appeared to stall, so too did his future prospects. And without anything to fall back on, it’s easy to see why he took his career so seriously.
2. Mamie rarely interfered - but what did you think of the counsel she gave her husband. Was it well founded and what were your thoughts about how well she knew her husband and his skill set?
During this period we see Mamie’s greatest growth as a woman and an Army wife, but it is very telling of how well she knew Ike at this stage that she knew he wouldn’t be happy leaving the Army. As I mentioned above, Ike probably couldn’t see himself doing anything else and Mamie appears to have seen the same thing. Both of them had invested a lot of time and effort into Ike’s career, so I think that Mamie was well in tune with Ike’s skills and proclivities and, thus, well founded in interfering in Ike’s choices at this point.
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I agree - I think she knew him very well - I wonder if she knew him better than he knew her.
Mamie may have been a good wife in the context of her times, but she she had her limitations as a companion. She is far different from the political wives we have been reading about in other discussions (Jackie Kennedy, Lady Bird Johnson, and Nancy Reagan).According to Smith, "She loathed outdoor activity and had little patience for abstract discussion. A more typical Army wife, Mamie dwelt on the surface of popular culture." P. 56
She was very young and her interests were very different from those of her husband, but, as others have pointed out, she lived in a different era.
The death of Ikey was so tragic for both parents. I think Ike's grief must have been compounded by the fact that he had not been able to spend much time with him. I wonder if he blamed Mamie for taking him away first to her parents and then leaving him with an aunt and uncle. Of course, both parents thought they would have all the time in the world to be with Ikey once their lives settled down.
Life was very uncertain before the days of antibiotics.
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Actually I think that Mamie resented Ike for the circumstances and not the other way around and I think Mamie potentially resented Ike for many things but felt bound to the marriage. I am not giving Ike a free ride here. Ike knew what he was getting when he married Mamie and her background and he knew that it was not like his own but that did not matter to him for the obvious reasons.
I do think that both of them were grief stricken however and in Ike's case - probably a big dose of regret and guilt.
So many topics in this chapter - Ike's dealing with peacetime army, the death of his son, his relationship with Patton and how his wife transformed herself at the start of their marriage.To me the defining point of the chapter was the death of Ikey, and how Mamie and Ike dealt with their loss. I read between the lines to look into how they felt and believe that Ike most certainly took the responsibility on himself since he hired the housekeeper/nanny that had survived scarlet fever but still carried it.
I also enjoyed going over the issues of comparison of Patton and Ike. I never knew Patton was brought up in such opulence but it certainly showed in his style of leadership and how he treated men that he felt had no backbone. "Patton was a loner: highly opinionated, ultraconservative, bigoted, and racist." p. 54 I've been to the site of his civil war relatives burial as he had been, and in reading up on his life that statement pretty much sums up who he was.
I also see how the the German road system was a bright idea that popped into his head after he had to traverse the country with tanks, taking several weeks to get from coast to coast.
Loads of good info in this chapter!
Yeah, I felt a bit heart-broken about Ikey and did not know how it created a rift in their marriage. I do wonder if Mamie knew what she was getting into marrying an officer. rough life and lonely.
Bryan wrote: "Yeah, I felt a bit heart-broken about Ikey and did not know how it created a rift in their marriage. I do wonder if Mamie knew what she was getting into marrying an officer. rough life and lonely."It had to be really hard. An interesting fact that after Ike died, she often conducted business from her bed until around noon. She would pile up Ike's side of the bed with her business needs. She'd often tell everyone that she felt it was appropriate to conduct business as such before noon.
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To me th..."
An excellent point Chef about the nanny.
Also keep in mind that Patton's wife and Mamie weren't friends. My guess is that Patton's wife was more suited to and understood what it was to be a military wife and maybe came from a different family life (her dad was a business man in the textile industry in Boston) than Mamie.
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a) What did you think about the 1919 Motor Convoy and Ike joining it for a lark?
b) Did anybody wonder what Mamie was doing by herself?
c) It appeared to be quite a public relations event and stimulated road development and improvement efforts. Was there anything that surprised you about this event?
d) “The old convoy had started me thinking about good two-lane highways, but Germany had made me see the wisdom of broader ribbons across the land.” - Dwight David Eisenhower - Who would have thought that this convoy would result in the Interstate Highway Act 37 years later?
Link to the US Army Transportation Museum: http://www.transchool.lee.army.mil/mu...
Link to the National Archives:
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/eyew...
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Any thoughts on this quote:
"From the beginning, Eisenhower and Patton were a mismatched pair. Patton was monumentally egotistical, flamboyant, and unpredictable. Eisenhower was self-effacing and steady. Yet they formed an enduring friendship that lasted until shortly before Patton’s death in 1945."
Senior American commanders of World War II.
Seated are (from left to right)
Gens. William H. Simpson, George S. Patton, Carl A. Spaatz, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Omar Bradley, Courtney H. Hodges, and Leonard T. Gerow;
Standing are (from left to right):
Gens. Ralph F. Stearley, Hoyt Vandenberg, Walter Bedell Smith, Otto P. Weyland, and Richard E. Nugent.
Original caption: “"This is the brass that did it.
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“Because no quarters were available, they lived for a time in a furnished room in nearby Laurel, Maryland, and Ike commuted. Ikey was left with the Douds in Denver. After less than a month, Mamie had had enough. “Ike, I can’t live my life this way,” she said. Eisenhower begged her to stay, but Mamie packed up and took the train to Denver. “I threw in the sponge,” she said later.
While she was away, Mamie wrote rarely. In desperation, Ike wrote to Mrs. Doud, his mother-in-law:
Dear Mother:
I hear from Mamie so infrequently that I have no idea how you are getting along….Would you mind, when you have time, writing me about Ikey and Daddy, and yourself. I try to be patient and cheerful—but I do like to be with people I love.
Devotedly,
Your Son
Topics for Discusion:
1. If you were married to somebody who wrote to your mother complaining about your lack of correspondence - how would you feel and how would your mother feel - and do you think that this was an underhanded thing for Ike to do? It was pretty apparent that he did not ask after Mamie? To me it appeared he was being a big snitch and trying to cause a rift between mother and daughter as well as trying to exercise some leverage on Mamie.
2. Do you think that Mamie had a point about how she was being forced to live her life while Ike ran off on convoys to play Indians and clearly saw it as a lark?
3. In this day and age, how many women would tolerate being treated like Mamie was while their husbands were stateside?
4. What I thought was interesting - is how Ike tried to convey that he was the interested party and was the one who was being injured. Did anybody else feel that Ike was quite out of touch with how his own actions should have been perceived or what he was accountable for in the break down of his marriage? It appears that Ike felt "entitled" to live his life the way he wanted to live it and that Mamie did not have the same rights.
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Topics for Discussion:
1. Obviously now Ike reaped what he had sown - the days of no accountability for his indifference to his family had come to screeching halt. Now he had to pay the piper. Mamie had already distanced herself from Ike and saw the man that he was and would continue to be - but somehow ended up trying to live with the man who she really had been estranged from. Poor Ikey seemed to be just a casualty of the indifference and carelessness with which Ike cherished and doted on his family. For Ike it was all about him. What are your thoughts on this tragic time period? Who was at fault for this unfortunate situation? Could this have been avoided?
2. Is anybody else surprised that this marriage continued under these circumstances and dark cloud?
Note: Some references state that the boy was called Icky not Ikey.
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"Eisenhower and Mamie arrived in Panama on January 7, 1922. The 20th Infantry Brigade was stationed at Camp Gaillard, near the famous Culebra Cut, toward the Pacific end of the canal.
The Conners had restored their house (including a tennis court and a swimming pool) to its earlier splendor, and Ike took the dilapidated house in stride.
But Mamie was appalled. “She made no bones about how mad she was that they had been ordered to such a post,” Virginia Conner recalled.
From the beginning, Mamie, who was in the early stages of pregnancy, hated their ramshackle quarters, Ike’s duty with the brigade, and Panama itself. “The Marriage was clearly in danger,” said Mrs. Conner. “They were two young people who were drifting apart. Ike was spending less and less time with Mamie, and there was no warmth between them. They seemed like two people moving in different directions.”
Topics for Discussion:
1. What were your impressions of the Panama assignment and Mamie's reactions to the circumstances? Since she was in the early period of her pregnancy - was it wise for her to be in Panama and living under such conditions?
2. And of course - what about the state of their marriage? Both had totally opposing views on Panama. For his part, Eisenhower considered his service in Panama the “most interesting and constructive of my life”.
3. One reason was General Fox Conner. Why do you think Fox Conner played such an important role? How had Ike been saved from court-martial?
4. What did Eisenhower learn about “coalition warfare” that would serve him well later on?
5. What did Conner mean when he told Ike, “Always take your job seriously, never yourself.” or “All generalities are false, including this one.”
6. What evidence did Smith provide that showed what little confidence John Doud had in Eisenhower’s capability to hire a capable and healthy nurse? Why do you think Mamie’s outlook changed and improved?
7. Ike ignored his young wife again and Mamie was down to skin and bones and once again fled to Denver. Smith stated that “From the vantage of 750 Lafayette Street she was able to take stock of her marriage and the life she had led for nearly eight years.” She noticed that her old girlfriends had very different lives with the husbands that they had chosen. How had Mamie matured?
The Doud House
More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and...
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Eisenhower summarized his thoughts in order to demystify the Command and General Staff School:
“Use common sense; don’t magnify the importance of insignificant details; don’t worry about bygones; and keep it simple. “Remember that Napoleon’s battle plans are among the simplest that history records.” Focus, common sense, simplicity and attitude - the recipe for Ike’s success.
I think the convey was instrumental in people's understanding for better roads. Funding remained a problem, until Ike's presidency, and he argued the reason for the interstate roads: military.I like the command school quote; it is great. However, war makes things complicated, lol, Clauswitz's "fog of war," right?
by
Carl von Clausewitz
Bentley wrote: "Stan wrote: "Fascinating to read what others are making of this book. Having reached chapter 6, at this stage, I do not yet know whether I warm to the man. As to whether he was lucky, I feel uneasy..."Apologies, I need to look up "non-spoiler" to keep onside.
Bentley,I did not find it strange that Ike wrote to his mother-in-law because Mamie hardly ever wrote to him. At that point their marriage was being sorely tested, and he needed help.
What seemed to be such a great match initially, really wasn't from Mamie's point of view. She didn't like roughing it and, at this point at least, didn't seem able to compensate by making good friends with the other army wives. I imagine she was depressed and lonely.
Today, the couple might have got divorced, but as you said, back then the feeling was "You made your bed. Now lie in it."
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I ..."
Absolutely - that reading list that he was given was phenomenal - was Ike looking for the father he did not have or maybe wanted?
Ike was incredibly lucky to find a mentor in Connor. Smith says that "life with General Conner was a sort of graduate school in military affairs and the humanities." P. 66Up to this point, Ike had not really had a very good education. He skated by in high school with good grades, but not much work, and education at West Point relied almost entirely on the rote method.
As a former teacher, I feel certain that Conner also felt lucky to have found such a receptive and hard working student.
Once again, poor Mamie was being left behind since she had no interest in these kinds of things. It was fortunate that her family was wealthy enough to pay for a nurse after baby John was born. I wonder if her family said you have to stick with it, but we'll do what we can to help.
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This is a recipe for Mamie's Million Dollar Fudge - let me know how it tastes if you make it:
Mamie’s Million Dollar Fudge
4 1/2 cups sugar
pinch of salt
2 tablespoons butter
1 tall can evaporated milk
12 ounces semi-sweet chocolate bits 12 ounces German-sweet chocolate 1 pint marshmallow cream
2 cups nutmeats
Boil the sugar, salt, butter, evaporated milk together for six minutes.
Put chocolate bits and German chocolate, marshmallow cream and nutmeats in a bowl. Pour the boiling syrup over the ingredients. Beat until chocolate is all melted, then pour in pan. Let stand a few hours before cutting.
Remember it is better the second day. Store in tin box.
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http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg....
Source: Find a Grave
First Ladies Preview: Mamie Eisenhower
Short Video: http://youtu.be/rnH3IUcDhAA
First Lady Mamie Eisenhower's 1950s Birthday Parties with Rare Recording of Her Voice
The birthday music at the beginning is annoying but once you get to the great footage - things look up - Gettysburg footage too.
Video as well: http://youtu.be/4uHQtYckJxY
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Mamie Eisenhower's bangs and sparkling blue eyes were as much trademarks of an administration as the president's famous grin. Her outgoing manner, love of pretty clothes and jewelry, and obvious pride in husband and home made her a very popular first lady.
Born in 1896 in Boone, Iowa, Mamie Geneva Doud moved with her family to Denver Colorado when she was seven. During winters the family made long visits to relatives in the milder climate of San Antonio, Texas. There, in 1915, Mamie met Dwight D. Eisenhower, a young second lieutenant. On Valentine's Day in 1916 he gave her a miniature of his West Point class ring to seal a formal engagement; they were married at the Doud home in Denver on July 1.
Mamie's new life followed the pattern of other army wives: a succession of posts in the United States, the Panama Canal Zone, France, and the Philippines. She once estimated that in 37 Years she had unpacked her household at least 27 times. Each move meant another step up the career ladder for her husband, with increasing responsibilities for her. Their first son Doud Dwight or "Icky," born in 1917, died of scarlet fever in 1921. A second, John, was born in 1922 in Denver. Like his father he had a career in the army. Later he became an author and served as ambassador to Belgium.
During World War II, while fame came to "Ike," Mamie lived in Washington. In 1948, the Eisenhowers purchased a farm at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. It was the first home they had ever owned. When her husband campaigned for president, Mamie cheerfully shared his travels. When he was inaugurated in 1953, the American people warmly welcomed her as first lady. Diplomacy - and air travel - in the postwar world brought changes in their official hospitality. The Eisenhowers entertained an unprecedented number of heads of state and leaders of foreign governments, and Mamie's evident enjoyment of her role endeared her to her guests and to the public.
When their Gettysburg dream home was finally completed in 1955, the Eisenhowers celebrated with a housewarming picnic for the White House staff. In 1961, they retired there for eight contented years together. After her husband's death in 1969, Mamie continued to live on the farm, devoting more of her time to her family and friends. Mamie Eisenhower died on November 1, 1979. She is buried beside her husband in a small chapel on the grounds of the Eisenhower Library in Abilene, Kansas.
Source: The White House
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http://firstladies.c-span.org/FirstLa...
Some of this does not jive with Smith's accounting but other things were interesting.
Source: C-Span
Born - November 14, 1896 in Boone, Iowa
Parents - John Sheldon Doud & Elivera Carlson Doud
Married - July 1, 1916 to Dwight D. Eisenhower
Children:
Dwight Doud (1917 – 1920),
John Sheldon (1922 – present)
Firsts - 1st First Lady to appear in a televised presidential campaign ad
Post White House residence - Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
Died - November 1, 1979 in Washington, D.C.
Click here to see full bio of Mamie Eisen
- See more at: http://firstladies.c-span.org/FirstLa...
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All, there is so much good material and information on Mamie and this period of time that has nothing to do with the Second World War that I have set up a glossary strictly for this book - if you have links or ancillary information that you want to post - please make sure that you add it to the glossary here:
This is the link to the new glossary: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
These are the links to the Second World War comprehensive glossaries:
Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.
This is the glossary for this book:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
However, we also have an in depth glossary for the Second World War period that you might want to refer to:
Glossary - Part One - http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...
Glossary - Part Two - http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Glossary - Part Three - http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
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This is the glossary for this book:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I am going to add some additional material on Mamie here over the weekend and I do not want to clutter up the discussion threads.
I did not find that any of Ike's jobs were out of the ordinary. He went from command to staff jobs (GEN Conner's executive officer in Panama, for example), and unfortunately most of an officer’s time in the Army is in a staff position. It is true that he held some more desirable positions than others at certain times, but I would say that is pretty par for the course. You don’t always get the job you want, but wait a year or two and you’ll have a different position. I do think the relationship he established with GEN Conner was fortuitous; the by name request for Ike to serve as his XO saved him from court martial, as well as his mentorship got Ike to do some in depth self-development which would pay dividends in preparing Ike for future positions. I thought it was interesting that according to Smith, “Patton brashly called for armor to act independently on the battlefield.” P55 Army doctrine for years has called for combined arms maneuver, and today‘s Armored Brigade Combat Team structure of two combined arms battalions (with two armored companies each), Infantry BN, Field Artillery BN, Engineer BN, and a Brigade Support Battalion definitely go against what Patton seems to have been advocating.
There was an article in the current issue of Army Sustainment magazine that talks about the Transcontinental Motor Convoy and specifically gives some of Ike’s thoughts. The beginning of the article compares the conditions in the US at the time (1919) with roads and bridges in Afghanistan and some of our challenges with conducting operations there. When I first read about the transcontinental convoy in the book, I did think of the issues and challenges experienced running logistical convoys in Afghanistan. It is amazing to think that less than 100 years ago, much of the terrain in terms of roads and bridges in the US were similar to what I experienced in Afghanistan. It really makes one thankful for the interstate and infrastructure system we have here.
Article Link:
http://www.army.mil/article/140108
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This line really jumped out at me:
It is amazing to think that less than 100 years ago, much of the terrain in terms of roads and bridges in the US were similar to what I experienced in Afghanistan. It really makes one thankful for the interstate and infrastructure system we have here.
Bravo to you for your service first of all - and that is amazing in our short American history.
I'm wondering....did the similarities between Eisenhower and his father strike anyone else? Very nearly absent fathers even when present? Eisenhower certainly didn't have a father figure who taught him much about emotional engagement.
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It is odd but it does not appear that Dwight's grandfather was that way at all. And odder still - John Eisenhower when discussing his grandparents (Ike's parents) indicates that they were poor but very well educated for that time period and even read Greek and he loved, loved spending time with them every summer - it was the highlight of his summer to be with his grandparents and to even be able to wear an undershirt around which was never allowed in the city.
Bentley, I could be way out in left field, but reading what Smith wrote about Ike's father sounded a lot like mental illness to me. I wonder if that's why the difference between the two was so vast?
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The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
On War (other topics)Eisenhower in War and Peace (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Carl von Clausewitz (other topics)Jean Edward Smith (other topics)
For the week of February 16th through February 22nd we are reading CHAPTER 3: The Peacetime Army - pages 49 - 73 of the book - Eisenhower in War and Peace by Jean Edward Smith.
The third week's reading assignment is:
Week Three -> CHAPTER Three: The Peacetime Army - p. 49 - 73
(February 16, 2015 - February 22, 2015)
We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.
This book was kicked off on February 2nd
We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle.
This weekly thread will be opened up on February 16th.
There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.
Bentley will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Assisting Moderators Jerome, Kathy and Teri.
Welcome,
~Bentley
TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL
REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.
Notes:
It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.
Citations:
If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.
If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...
Introduction Thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Table of Contents and Syllabus
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Glossary
Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed. Since we are discussing the same time period and the same people will be discussed in this book as in the Liberation Trilogy - please utilize those three glossary parts. They will be very helpful to you and will provide a wealth of knowledge.
This is the glossary for this book:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
However, we have an in depth glossary for the Second World War period:
Glossary - Part One - http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...
Glossary - Part Two - http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Glossary - Part Three - http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Bibliography
There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Directions on how to participate in book discussions and how to follow the t's and c's - look at directives given for the discussion Landslide - What Do I Do Next?
I will modify these directives as we go along but for now utilize the information here.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...