Young Muslim's Book Club discussion

This is for Tarria and Noor to buddy read Scythe

Alright so just let me know whenever you get your library copy and then we can decide on a start date then!

Thanks, it's available on 14th April!

Just out of curiosity, how long does the library let you keep it for?

21 days but I can renew it up to 4 times so that's 86 days

sorry meant 84 my math lol

Okay that's good then, bc my finals end on April 19 so we'd probably have to start after then

ok then

Great we'll talk then!

Salam, I've got my library copy, please let me know when you're ready to start x

Salam, can we start tomorrow? I have one more exam

Okay that's fine iA

I also have exams in the beginning of May so I'm gonna try and to do this quickly lol

Oh I see! I can read pretty fast so I don't mind. How many chapters are there? We can split up a number of chapters to do per day

Hi! I got the chance to look through my copy and it looks like there are 40 chapters that are pretty short (most are less than 10 pages each in my copy). If you want to finish before May, how does reading 4 chapters per day sound? Let me know if that works for you!

that's fine! I actually read six chapters today haha

Oh in that case I'll do the same!

Honestly if you want you can read however much you feel like per day and just let me know what you read and I'll catch up each day. That way you can control how much you're reading if you want to leave time to study or something, and since I just finished my own exams, I'm okay with reading any amount.

yes, we can keep count here!
Part I:
chapter 1
chapter 2
chapter 3
chapter 4
chapter 5

Part II:
chapter 6

Also if you want to discuss anything about the book let me know cause I have some thoughts as well but I won't spoil anything

I finished up to chapter four, but i have iftar now so I'll read the next two chapters later. Feel free to share your thoughts with spoilers though since I probably won't check this thread until I'm done the chapters anyway.

I finished the 6 chapters. I like the ideas, but the writing is just a bit dry for me. I feel like the author does too much telling instead of showing, and I don't find Citra as interesting as Rowan.

That being said I think the concept is great and has lots of potential, and I really love the Curie journal entries that are in between each chapter, they add really interesting world-building and themes without being boring. Those journal pages are probably my favourite part of the book so far.

I agree with you on the the writing. Another thing that bothered me was that the book is written in past tense yet the author frequently throws in random sentences in present tense. It's jarring and takes you out of the reading experience.

And yes, Citra has the opportunity to be a girlboss but we see her wayyy too often through Rowan's POV and not her own so she just seems like a one-dimensional love interest and manic pixie dream girl.

The Curie journal was great. There was one bit that annoyed me - the one section where it talks about religion being something of the past made up by humans as a pasttime and an excuse to do things. Like, this is YA dystopia, keep your politics out of it.

Similar to another series, Mortal Engines, the world-building is, at the moment, my favourite part of the novel. Thankfully the writing and character work isn't as poor as it was in those books.

Oh I don't remember that religion related portion! I might have to skim through those chapters and see if I somehow missed it. If that is the case, I feel like the "religion is dead/never existed" trope is so over-used in dystopian stories anyway, so not only does it feel like a needless anti-religion sentiment, but it's not even a unique concept that improves the worldbuilding or something.

I totally agree that Rowan's POV doesn't do Citra justice. She already felt like a bit of a typical YA heroine from the way she lashed out at the scythe in the first chapter, but I think she at least had potential to be interesting. However if the author decides to shoehorn in a romance plotline and continues depicting her from Rowan's POV I feel like that might impede on any arc she could have.

I don't love Rowan yet either, but I at least liked his intro story more than Citra's. It felt far more unique and personal than hers because I haven't seen that type of backstory in many books and we actually got to see the effect it had on the rest of his life, unlike Citra who just seemed to have moved on with no big deal.

Of course it's too early to tell so I'm not going to say I dislike either of the characters until I've read a few more chapters, but those are just my thoughts so far.

Anyway let me know how many chapters you want to read today!

I've read another six chapters, I'm now on Chapter 12.

Rowan is still the more interesting character, but he's really starting to annoy me. He's taking risks and behaving like a very typical teenage boy which I usually wouldn't condemn but this is supposed to be a perfect, utopian world, why are these kids acting like stereotypical modern Americans?

Citra has gotten, if possible, even blander. The gleaning scenes with her and Faraday are great but outside of that she's just there. There are already hints at a romance between her and Rowan. I wish the author would develop the characters on their own before adding any romance. Or maybe just planting the seeds of romance in the first book before starting it in the second book.

Scythe Faraday is amazing though. I kind of wish he and Scythe Curie were the main characters.

The world-building is getting more and more interesting. There's the Vernal conclave and we finally meet other scythes who aren't as humble as Faraday. And Scythe Curie actually appears in person?

I 100% agree with your view on the romance. There's no development for them as characters, so there's no reason to be invested in the romance. Both Citra and Rowan are so boring and as you mentioned Citra has no notable moments outside of the ones with Faraday, and Rowan's only personality trait is "sometimes does rebellious things." I agree that Faraday and Curie are significantly more interesting characters than Citra and Rowan.

The one thing I viewed differently was that I actually sort of liked there are teenagers just acting like teenagers. If the characters had been written well, it would have been a great way to make them feel more real and relatable compared to just having them be annoyingly perfect. BUT this would only work if the characters were actually interesting, since they're boringly written these "imperfections" don't add anything to their characters.

I'm also getting more annoyed by the author's constant use of telling instead of showing. We never see any moments or conversation between Citra and Rowan that shows their presumably growing affection, we're just told straight-up that Rowan finds her attractive and gets jealous. They literally only have one conversation with no one else present or leading the conversation (when they're studying the poisons), and they never say anything to each other that would hint at a potential romance besides "I would miss having you around" which could be just as platonic as it is romantic (and again is straight up told to us instead of being shown through their actions). Being told through Rowan's thoughts is the only way we find out that there's supposed to be attraction there.

I also wanted to talk about the worlbuilding. Like you said, it's nice to see more of it, especially with the conclave, but I've started to notice some inconsistencies. For example, the Thunderhead doesn't experience anything human like emotions, and yet Curie says the only reason it doesn't make all people are economically equal is to sway boredom, which the Thunderhead shouldn't understand or care about.

Another example is from the earlier chapters when Citra noted that very few people knew how to hand-write anymore, and yet they're expected to write in a physical journal without any mentions of Rowan taking lessons. And how the scythes are expected to glean a certain number of people from each generalized racial group, but it's mentioned that almost everyone is mixed, sometimes ambiguously, in several scenes. The scythes aren't supposed to enjoy gleaning, but not being allowed to glean is considered a punishment, etc.

These are all pretty small nitpicks but it kind of takes me out of the world when I notice such things not adding up.

I agree with all of this! I'm on Chapter 22 now. A lot has happened; for better or for worse, we'll find out. But first, the romance.

I genuinely have no idea what it is that Citra sees in Rowan romantically because her POVs barely mention him. And while I'm really glad that the female protagonist isn't just obsessing over a man she doesn't seem to be thinking about anything else either. It's only been a few months but she seems to have completely forgotten about her family, friends and everything else she left behind before becoming a Scythe.

Rowan, at least, is still in contact with Tyger, and we're told why he likes Citra (not shown, but better than what we get in her POVs). He's very much a typical hormonal teenage boy, but he feels a little like a reader self-insert, because apart from that there's nothing unique about his character. I don't need a protagonist to be super quirky and special, but I would at least like them to be the slightest bit memorable.

And yes, the inconsistencies are grueling. I can usually overlook minor plotholes; after all, there's a reason fiction is fiction, however what I can't stand are major yet easily avoidable plotholes. Remove that one throwaway line about limited people learning handwriting and boom! Inconsistency solved!

Another inconsistency; If overpopulation is such a problem, then why is there no kind of family planning or birth control? Rowan comes from a family of seventeen, and there's plenty of other mentions of people with dozens of kids. Shouldn't there be some kind of futuristic contraception? Or a Two-Child Policy like in China?

Oh, and can we talk about the morality of the Scythes? I'm shocked that they're allowed to kill in all these creative ways. There's so much room for abuse it's disturbing. Why would the supposedly infallible Thunderhead approve of the running of the Scythedom this way?

*SPOILERS*





So Faraday is dead and he may have been murdered. Though I have a feeling he may still be alive for some reason? And if not I'm sure Goddard killed him. Hopefully I'll be surprised.

Now Citra and Rowan are apart I'm hoping we'll get some actual development for each of them.

Citra's chapters have got a lot more interesting. But they highlight more than ever how much better of a character Scythe Curie is in comparison to her. I'm worried that Citra is becoming a clone of Curie rather than developing on her own.

Most of what I liked about Rowan in the first few chapters is long gone. This boy is so ridiculously naïve and clueless it's infuriating. I'm sure he's gonna get taken advantage of by a lot of people. As the forgotten child, surely he would've had to learn to fend for himself from an early age, so why would he trust Goddard so quickly?

I've noticed the writing has started to summarise its own plot. Citra's POV mentions a scene with Scythe Faraday that would have been much more impactful had we actually been shown it while he was alive.

Your ideas for population-control makes complete sense, and it would be so easy for the Thunderhead to enforce given how much power it clearly has. Like you I was also shocked about how much the scythes were allowed to get away with. For people who aren't supposed to enjoy gleaning they sure do allow the scythes to go wild with it.

I'm also a bit confused as to why fire is the only thing that can kill naturally. First of all, most fire deaths are caused by inhaling too much smoke rather than the flame itself, but given that death by drowning (inhaling water) or poisonous gas can be revived, there's no reason smoke should be any different. Secondly, yes it damages the body, but so does splatting or jumping in front of train or whatever else, and the nanites have no problem healing those injuries. Unless you deliberately stand still in a flame for longer than it takes for the nanites to repair you there's no reason why fire should overpower them, and even this could be achieved by other methods (such as freezing to death or starving yourself)

I'm glad you mentioned that flashback with Faraday because I was thinking the same thing. That definitely should have been an actual scene, I would have loved to see more of Faraday's personality beyond the "mentor" role and get a deeper look into his heart/emotions before his death. Because of the lack of emotional scenes with him earlier, it made his death fall flat and it didn't really have as much of an impact on me as it should have (even though he was one of the better characters)


Anyway, on to the actual characters:

I have the same concerns as you about Rowan. The "compassionate but rebellious" streak that made him at least more interesting than Citra before is gone. Now the rebellious part is just one or two remarks at Goddard, which don't really even count if they're only a response to torture, and the compassionate part is gone entirely seeing how he indulges in Goddard's riches/"gifts" with no concern for the non-scythes that are clearly being manipulated (like the girl who has to please him to be spared) and only thinking about himself. I get that he's worried for his life, but he was when Khol was gleaned as well and he still managed to keep that characteristic, so I don't know why it's different now.

As for Curie, I liked her journal entries, but as a character I think she's quite boring. She just seems like a carbon copy of the "mysterious but kind mentor figure" that Faraday was, and like you said Citra lost her entire personality once Curie took her under her wing. I think Curie was best in small portions rather than as a major character.

As much as I liked Faraday, I'm somewhat glad he's gone, because his death was the first time I felt like the plot might actually go somewhere. I don't really like the Goddard-Rowan dynamic right now, but at least it will provide some real conflict for the story. Like you I'm (cautiously) holding out hope that this new turn in the story will improve the character development, and even though I'm doubting it'll meet my standards, at least as I can get an idea of a plot now.

I like how our rants are getting longer and longer as we read more XD Even though I'm not loving this book so far it's great getting to discuss it with you and compare our thoughts

The fire thing was so baffling, but even .ore confusing is the fact that nanites can 'heal' a drowned person. Like you can heal burns and sores from fire but emptying turgid cells? Into where? Maybe because I'm a bio student but this infuriates me.
I know this isn't sci-fi. I'd at least like some sort of logic, though. The nanites are nothing but a plot device to lazily explain everything.

Yes! I'm still annoyed that any possibly emotional scenes we could've had with Faraday were summarised. When he died, my reaction was basically "Um ok. Huh?" And why were we told what happened through Citra and Rowan's POVs and not his own? That would've been a great insight into his character, even if it was just a tidbit, seeing his thoughts before death. Especially had the ending been ambiguous so we'd be left guessing what happened to him.

I agree that Rowan's personality has done a 180°. What would be great would be if he was being set up to be a villain, or at least an anti-hero. I love a complex villain arc. However, given what we've seen I very much doubt the author has what it takes to pull that off. I feel like I'm being manipulated into sympathising for Rowan in his POVs and I hate it. Please show us why it is he's still heroic instead of telling us. It reminds me of young Coriolanus Snow in TBOSAS.

I also have to agree on Scythe Curie. When she was first introduced, I was excited because her diary entries were the best part of the book. Now, all that mystery around her is gone and we're left with yet another wise old mentor figure, powerful but secretly soft hearted. Come to think of it, every character seems to either fit a certain trope or has no personality at all.

Now something I wanted to discuss was the arson scene. Scythe Volta's revelation was so strange. If working for Goddard destroys him so much (and I can see why) then why does he? He could make excuses and wouldn't the Scythedom protect him? He's an apprentice, but that doesn't make sense since apparently Faraday was the first Scythe to take on more than one apprentice, yet Goddard has three?

I get that we're supposed to be seeing the inner corruption of the Scythedom but everything is just so black and white. Scythes are either good, heroic angels (Faraday, Curie and Volta) or cruel, twisted and evil (Goddard and Rand). The leader of the Scythes may be a gray character but he's more of a coward then anything else.

The Esme revelation was disappointing in my opinion. Apparently she's nothing but a tool for blackmail. I'd hoped that there would be something interesting about her that would be explored later on.

I'm still holding onto hope for the ending though. I hope it isn't a Disney-esque riding-into-the-sunset conclusion. I've already got the next two books from the library so unfortunately I feel pressured to read them even if I'm not a fan of this one :/

And yes, the ranting and discussions with you are the best part of the experience, this is my first buddy read and I'm really enjoying it!

Just to clarify what chapters did you read up to? I haven't read too much of your response to avoid spoilers so sorry if you already mentioned it towards the end.

Oh yeah I forgot sorry! I've read up to and including Chapter 28

Alright, I've caught up!

I was thinking the exact same thing about Rowan. Although at this point I'm not invested in him enough for it to be effective, had he been better written, a villain arc would have been so fascinating to read about and would make me much more invested in the rest of the series. I don't think it's going to happen though, and if it did, I don't think it would be interesting enough to save the book at this point.

Volta is actually one of the few things I disagree about. It seems like he was drawn in mostly by peer pressure, and given how attractive working for Goddard is viewed as by the apprentices at the conclave, I think it makes sense that even someone with a conscience like his would be tempted. Seeing him realize his mistakes and turn against Goddard would finally provide us with at least one interesting character arc, so he's the first character I'm truly interested in. (Curie and Faraday were good at first but I didn't really care about seeing them develop because I knew it wouldn't happen.) As for the apprentice issue, I think he's a new scythe, not an apprentice, so he's more of working "alongside" Goddard rather than being trained.

I do agree that the Esme revelation was very disappointing, partially because her role was so hyped up, and partially because the reveal came out of nowhere. Something as simple as some foreshadowing would have made this reveal much better.

As for the conclusion, I think it's pretty clear that neither of them is going to glean the other, but I'm hoping it won't be a riding-into-the-sunset ending bc that wouldn't create enough traction for the sequels. So I'm still holding out hope that it'll be something interesting.

Also here's hoping you have better luck with the sequels! The concept still has lots of potential so you never know, maybe the writing and character development will improve.

So I've finished the book...
Not sure how to rate it yet.

Alright I'll finish it tonight then!

I'm finished, here are my thoughts:

Honestly the biggest disappointment of the last few chapters was Volta. I'd been hoping he would get a big character arc alongside Rowan and I really wasn't a fan of the way the author chose to end that storyline.

I also feel like Goddard and his junior scythes were taken down way too easily. Considering all the conflict that had been building up over the course of the story, that climactic fight just fell so flat and at no point did I feel like the stakes were stacked against Rowan, despite him being 1 against 3.

As for the actual ending, I do think that Citra's use of the immunity ring was very clever, but otherwise I don't have any strong feelings about the ending. I didn't hate it but I didn't love it either.

I'm going to wait a bit before I rate it so I can be more objective in my judgement, but I'm probably going to end up giving this 2 or 2.5 stars, and those stars are solely for the concept, Faraday, and the Curie journal entries. The writing style, word-building, character arcs, and romance were all disappointing. Because I'm not invested in any of these I'm not going to read the sequels. That being said I saw there's an anthology about past scythes coming out soon that I might be interested in, solely because it seems to be a collection of different authors that might be able to execute the concept better.

Even though I didn't really enjoy this book I really enjoyed ranting about it with you LOL. I'd love the chance to do buddy-reads with you in the future!

I agree about Volta. I wasn't sold on his deflection in the first place, mainly because I felt that we didn't see enough of his friendship with Rowan to have any sort of impact. But he definitely deserved better than what he got.

I'm glad you mentioned Goddard. Really, he's just dead? I was sorely reminded of Episode 8 of Star Wars where the hyped-up to be major villain is taken out like a punk for shock value. And how is Rowan already that advanced? Less than a year of training and he's beaten up three scythes who've trained for over half their lives. Unfortunately he's become a typical overpowered Gary Stu.

Scythe Faraday's big reveal was the worst part for me. The most interesting character was turned into a literal joke. And when Curie talked about their relationship I couldn't care less. The whole idea of show-not-tell was entirely ignored throughout the book.

Citra's ring foil was both surprising and impressive, the first time I actually felt something for her character.

There is now a Scythe named Scythe Meir, who is sympathetic to Citra. As we know, Scythes choose names from positively influential people, usually scientists. Now there is one named after an infamous Israeli Zionist politician who once said that there was no such thing as Palestinians, among worse things. Futuristic Arabia is also now known as Israebia. I'm shocked at these problematic elements but then I can't remember when this book was released.

Rating wise I'm torn between 2 or 3 stars. I want to give 3 stars for the parts I enjoyed but then I realise that what I disliked outweigh them. Since I already borrowed the sequels from my library I do want to read them, and I've already started Thunderhead. Though I do have Endgame and Six Of Crows to read next but for some reason I keep putting them off.

And yes, I'd happily buddy-read with you again in the future, this was so much fun! The ranting was the best part XD

Oh yeah I'm glad you mentioned the Israebia issue, I'd forgotten about it because I was very quickly skimming through the last few chapters. By that point I wasn't invested enough to pay much attention.

As for Faraday, you're absolutely right. I was trying to figure out why the reveal felt so off even though I was happy to have one of the few interesting characters back, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. You put it into the perfect words though, it was played for a joke and kind of discredited everything that came before. And I agree, Curie's background story didn't really interest me.

I'm probably going to settle on 2.5 stars rounded down for Goodreads. Hopefully you enjoy Thunderhead more!

And I noticed you added that same Gleanings anthology to your shelf. I know there's still a few months before it comes out, but if you're still interested by then, maybe we could BR that too? I'm hoping I'll enjoy that one since it's different authors, and worst case scenario, it'll give us some more rant fuel XD

I think I'll settle for 2.5 too. I'll probably round it down to 2 though. Goodreads really needs a half star rating system

Yes, there's still a while till release so I can't make any promises yet but that does sound really fun. Insha'Allah we can buddy read it when it comes out if my library has it.

Yes Insha Allah!

Salam, this thread is old but I just wanted to remind you that the Gleanings anthology is released next week. Would you still be interested in buddy reading it at some point?