EPBOT Readers discussion

This is the place for final reading thoughts. Spoilers allowed here.

I have a long wait for this book, so I am making this thread now. When I finish I'll update it with some questions, but I don't want to prevent discussion if others are finished early. Feel free to ask your own questions, if you are!

Well, I gave it a try, but was reminded again that I read for fun and escape so non-fiction not my favorite. The book was interesting, but of course depressing because of the topic. I stopped when the author got to the genital mutilation "treatments".

@Kathy, I had emotions that were all over the place. I was angry, frustrated, thankful to be alive now instead of then (and then Hamilton song/lyrics start playing in my head), confused by some of her choices, inspired by her determination after getting out and wondering "how had I never heard of her before".

Your reaction was similar to a few people in my neighborhood book club when we read it. Some felt like you and didn't finish. Others said, "I figured if she could live through it, I could read about her story."

I just finished this (while proctoring standardized testing!). Depressing, yes, but riveting. She was a badass! I'll say more when I have time but I'm at work right now.

I too was wondering why I'd never heard of her before. And also glad that I'm living today and not then (and glad for my daughter, too). It was absolutely infuriating, her lack of agency though no fault of her own. I think the hardest part for me to swallow was how she kept going back and trusting the doctor, when it was SO CLEAR to me that he was a total bastard. I wonder if some of those choices came from being socialized to look at men as trustworthy protectors as a default way of being.

Hi all, I finally got my copy and finished it, but then didn't get around to collecting my thoughts right away. Here's a list of some questions, for those who finished!

I'm being somewhat picky on the questions I'm choosing. This is a particularly timely book to have finished reading just about now. This group is not an extension of the main facebook group, it was just inspired by it. So it doesn't have to follow the rules. That being said, it did deal with a lot of religion, politics and other hot button issues, and I don't want the thread to be come a total battle ground (not that i think anyone here is THAT hot headed, I just am trying to lay some boundaries). So I am not forbidding discussing current political issues, or religion or anything like that, but I am also not outright pasting the questions that deal with those topics directly.

Elizabeth employs a variety of tactics --- physical resistance, negotiating with hospital staff, writing --- to protest her treatment throughout the book. Which techniques were most effective for her? What strategies would you turn to in her place?

“Novel reading,” masturbation and irregular menstrual cycles are a few of the many reasons that women were admitted to asylums in Elizabeth’s time. Which, if any, of these justifications stood out to you? How has our understanding of these “causes of insanity” changed?

Elizabeth and McFarland have a complicated relationship to say the least. What did you think of her continuous attempts to redeem him? Did she truly think he would change, or was she just trying to improve her own circumstances? What were the long-lasting effects of the relationship on each of them?

Right or wrong, McFarland was completely trusted by the Jacksonville Asylum’s Board of Trustees. What impact did this have on his patients? How did the Board respond to Fuller’s investigation and recommendations? Can you think of a way to avoid such conflicts of interest?

Elizabeth writes: “To be lost to reason is a greater misfortune than to be lost to virtue, and the... scorn which the world attaches to it [is] greater.” Do you think this is still true today? The American Psychological Association recently stated that only 25 percent of adults with symptoms of mental illness believe that people will be caring and sympathetic toward them. How can we improve sympathy for those who struggle with their mental health? And which do you think carries more societal shame: having a mental health problem or being “lost to virtue”? Is the answer dependent on gender?


Any other thoughts you had?

I will say that I'm glad I finished this a couple weeks before the Roe v wade decision, I already had a hard enough time finishing it before then, I don't know if I could have finished it after. It was very well written, and I gave it five stars for being emotionally impactful and well researched. But it was so HARD to read and made me so very sick and angry. It was just so discouraging how little progress it feels like we've made, as a society, in 150 some years. And now, a couple months later, even less so.

I was trying to think of what to do in her situation as I was reading and just got increasingly ill as I came to realize how little there would be TO do. She was right enough to realize that kicking and screaming and throwing a fit would just feed right into "proving" that she was mad. She wasn't physically strong enough to overpower all of the guards and orderlies to make any kind of actual escape attempt. The doctor, for all his pretending to be on her side was fully in control of her fate, and prevented any of her sympathetic friends efforts to aid her to come to anything. He wouldn't even allow letters to come in for emotional comfort. Even with modern conveniences like phones and the internet, all it takes is removing the phone and suddenly you're just as cut off as she was. And there's plenty of ways to block internet access with firewalls and such even if there were computers to access within a modern facility.

I got very frustrated with her continual attempts to redeem him. It was glaringly obvious he wasn't to be trusted. But I'm guessing it was a combination of her religious views, truly believing everyone was capable of redemption, and desperately clinging to hope. She knew he was one of her few ways out, and if he couldn't be redeemed she could be stuck there forever. So accepting that he was irredeemable would be to accept that had no hope at all.

Skipping down to the las question,

I certainly think there are still a LOT of stigmas against mental illness today. Just look at how many insults involve "being crazy" or "psychotic" "bipolar" being "ocd " over something etc. And how many haunted houses are there that are mental institution themed? I think it's slowly improving as more people are being open about going to therapy and and things like that, but it's certainly not out of the language, or the public as a whole. I'm not sure what we can do all around, but I know I've personally been trying to correct myself when a "oh that's crazy" slips out, or other language like that.

All and all, I'm glad I read it, but man it was sad and frustrating. Also i was really disgusted (but not surprised) to read that she's STILL thought of as a crazy person who tried to discredit McFarland amongst the medical community, while he has a picture on the wall of mental institutions for being a prominent figure in the field. Hopefully this book goes to help rectify that impression.