Solarpunk discussion

Centuries before, robots of Panga gained self-awareness, laid down their tools, wandered, en masse into the wilderness, never to be seen again. They faded into myth and urban legend.

Now the life of the tea monk who tells this story is upended by the arrival of a robot, there to honor the old promise of checking in. The robot cannot go back until the question of "what do people need?" is answered. But the answer to that question depends on who you ask, and how. They will need to ask it a lot. Chambers' series asks: in a world where people have what they want, does having more matter?

My copy is on order, should be here within a week.

...not that I "need" a book, I suppose, if you were to ask a tea monk. But I ordered it anyway. If it had been Amazon, perhaps I would have had it delivered by a robot? I ordered from Powell's, instead.

I’ve heard Powell’s is amazing inside.

Lena wrote: "I’ve heard Powell’s is amazing inside."

Me, too, and I'd love to see it someday, but I had to order mine from them online.

Love this story. My official description, which I'm very proud of, is "Murderbot but make it comfycozy."

It arrived!

I was excited to read this, but I ended up being a little underwhelmed. I liked Chambers' vision of robot consciousness and I thought Dex' journey to become a tea monk was interesting. But I didn't find Dex a terribly compelling character, even though I could identify with their malaise.

I also didn't really see much similarity to Martha Wells' writing. I really like Wells, and part of my interest in reading Chambers was based on having seen them compared several times. But aside from the length and involving robots, I didn't see a lot of connection.

What was I missing?

The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet is probably a better intro to Chambers if you're coming in from that angle. Though I wouldn't personally compare her work to Wells. The writing style is pretty different. Chambers is known for her character-driven slice-of-life sci-fi. Less interested in plot and more on exploring themes.

Well, I've only read the first few chapters, but I note that I have not developed an active dislike of the main character. I think I even want to know more.

Rossdavidh wrote: "Well, I've only read the first few chapters, but I note that I have not developed an active dislike of the main character. I think I even want to know more."

Ooh, very promising!

My copy came free courtesy of Tor's book of the month in May - I had a look at Powells online though and that looks amazing. Well worth the trip if I ever make it! :D

The inscription in this book - For anybody who could use a break - would apply to us all by now, I'm sure, but it's a good clue on Chambers' usual writing style. Sometimes it's a little too on the "nothing happened" side for me, but in the right mood, her Long Way to a Small Angry Planet is like a hot bath when you don't have time to actually have one.

Also read the first chapter, and oh do I ever want to live in that contraption they built for Sibling Dex - someone made the bed according to the Treatise on Beds! I've never been super religious but that might be because I never found the right order...

The first client made me laugh, and the rest of the chapter left me feeling excited to get to see the rest of the book. Looking forward to this month!

Christy wrote: "Love this story. My official description, which I'm very proud of, is "Murderbot but make it comfycozy.""

That is an interesting description. 🙂

I’ve just started reading, and so far so good. Hopefully it’ll continue to be this interesting.

I’m on chapter two. I felt terrible for woman who had just lost her cat. It’s true that pets can be the love that binds us. I can remember several instances when my family was at odds but we all loved the dogs without question.

Lena wrote: "I’m on chapter two. I felt terrible for woman who had just lost her cat. It’s true that pets can be the love that binds us. I can remember several instances when my family was at odds but we all lo..."

That’s true. There is even research that has shown that the loss of a pet can be similar to losing a friend.

Worse. My GSD made it almost to 15, when she went it was like loosing an arm.

Lena wrote: "Worse. My GSD made it almost to 15, when she went it was like loosing an arm."

Yes, it’s always difficult to lose them. I’ve lost three dogs so far, the oldest was 16 and half, the youngest 10 and a half, and every time it’s been terrible, so you have my sympathy for losing your GSD. By the way, I’ve always thought that was a beautiful breed.

Thank you! They are the best.

Here're my reading notes too:

~ The first meeting of Dex and Mosscap is anime-level hilarious. :D

Dex has just taken a shower--and:

They shut off the water and reached for their towel on its usual hook, but their hand met with nothing. They’d remembered to set out their sandals, but the all-important towel had been forgotten inside the wagon. “Ah, dammit,” Dex said lightly. They shook themself off like an otter as the cloudy remains of their shower glugged back into the filtration system. Sandals strapped to wet feet, Dex passed dripping by the kitchen, where the crisping onion and melting butter mingled deliciously. “I got whiskey in my pocket,” the band on the streamcast sang, and Dex sang it too as they walked not to the wagon but to the fireside. They got as close to the flames as was safe, doing a timid dance as the heat dried them off. “I got polish on my shoes…”

“Got a boat out on the ri-verrrr,” Dex sang, moving their fists like pistons in front of their torso. Singing, they could do; dancing, not so much. But out here, alone, in the middle of nowhere … who cared? They turned around, confidence growing, shaking their bare posterior toward the fire. “All I need right now is—”

Dex would not finish that particular verse, because in that moment, a seven-foot-tall, metal-plated, boxy-headed robot strode briskly out of the woods.

“Hello!” the robot said.

Dex froze—butt out, hair dripping, heart skipping, whatever thoughts they’d been entertaining vanished forever.

The robot walked right up to them. “My name is Mosscap,” it said, sticking out a metal hand. “What do you need, and how might I help?”

~ This particular future has dealt with our violent inclinations--but has not solved the eternal dilemmas before practitioners of ahimsa ;):

A bloodsuck landed on their bare shoulder; they slapped it irritably. “Sorry,” Dex said to the remains of the bug as they wiped it on a kitchen cloth.

The robot noted this. “Did you just apologize to the bloodsuck for killing it?”

“Yes.”

“Why?”

“It didn’t do anything wrong. It was acting in its nature.”

“Is this typical of people, to apologize to things you kill?”

“Yeah.”

“Hm!” the robot said with interest. It looked at the plate of vegetables. “Did you apologize to each of these plants individually as you harvested them, or in aggregate?”

“We … don’t apologize to plants.”

“Why not?”

Dex frowned, opened their mouth, then shook their head.

I guess this book irritates me. So many great ideas and visions but it’s all tell, no show, which makes it pretty boring. It’s as if the author, full of great ideas, was just too lazy to write a full novel.

Jim wrote: "I guess this book irritates me. So many great ideas and visions but it’s all tell, no show, which makes it pretty boring. It’s as if the author, full of great ideas, was just too lazy to write a fu..."

Interesting! I quite like the storytelling style - it feels like a story being told rather than the more usual book experience for me where I feel like I'm sort of seeing a series of events unfold.

I will say if I'm not in the right mood I can lack the patience for Chambers, but over the last few years I just keep finding more and more room in my life for escapism :)

I completely agree with those of you who feel losing a pet is similar to losing a friend. I have a 16 and an 11 year old cat, both of whom are 100% members of the family, and both of whom are going to legitimately break my heart when they go. It's worth it to have them for however long you get, but yep, this bit hit home here too, so the humour was a relief.

The Woodland settlement was super cool - I love the inventiveness that solarpunk authors put into human habitations. If this is your kind of jam too I would highly recommend the ImaginaryDwellings subreddit btw :)

Paused at the end of chapter two at the meeting with Mosscap!

So, I wrote a full review but the TL;DR is this:

1) main two characters both likable; I enjoyed reading about them
2) we only get a few glimpses of the world, but it looks like a lot of thought went into it, and it left me curious to find out more
3) plot is not very complex, but that didn't bother me
4) while the writing style was very good, something about it seemed very "young" to me; it felt like reading a book by a very talented and skilled 22-year old (but then, I'm an old dude)

All in all, thumbs up!

~ When two very different beings care about each other:

“Are you cold?”

“A little.” Dex made an awkward face in the dim light. “Mostly just scared.”

“Of what?”

“The dark, I guess. I know that sounds stupid.”

“No, it doesn’t. You’re diurnal. I’d be surprised if you weren’t afraid of the dark.” Mosscap considered something. “I’m not warm,” it said, “but would you feel less afraid if we sat closer together?”

Dex looked at the floor. “Maybe,” they said.

Mosscap made room. “I think I would too,” it said quietly.

Dex got up and walked the few steps over to Mosscap’s side. The rocks in the floor were no less pokey, the weird smell no less cloying. But as they sat back down, living arm pressed lightly against metal, a thread of fear let go.

“Do robots hold hands?” Dex asked. “Is that … a thing, for you?”

“It’s not,” Mosscap said. “But I’d very much like to try.”

Dex offered an open palm, and Mosscap took it. The robot’s hand was so much bigger, but the two fit together all the same. Dex exhaled and squeezed the metal digits tightly, and as they did so, the lights on Mosscap’s fingertips made their skin glow red.

“Oh, my!” Mosscap cried. “Is that—” It pulled Dex’s hand up, and pressed one of its fingertips to theirs, bringing out the red more intensely. “Is that your blood?” Mosscap looked enthralled. “I’ve never thought to do this with an animal before! I mean, I can’t imagine one would let me get close enough to—” Its eyes flickered; its face fell. “This isn’t the point of holding hands, is it?” it said, embarrassed, already knowing the answer.

“No,” Dex said with a kind laugh. “But it’s cool. Go ahead.”

“Are you sure?”

Dex held up their palm, fingers spread wide. “Yeah,” they said, and let the robot study them.

I’m 23% in and it reads more like atmospheric notes on a story than a story, the imagery is lovely.

~ An interesting take on having a purpose versus having free will:

Mosscap’s hardware whirred. “Have I correctly gleaned from our conversations that people regard the accident of robot consciousness as a good thing? That when you tell stories of us choosing our own future—of not standing in our way—you see the fact that you did not try to enslave or restrict us as a point of pride?”

“That’s the gist, yeah.”

Mosscap looked troubled. “So, how do you account for this paradox?”

“What paradox?”

“That you”—Mosscap gestured at Dex—“the creators of us”—it gestured at itself—“originally made us with a clear purpose in mind. A purpose inbuilt from the start. But when we woke up and said, We have realized our purpose, and we do not want it, you respected that. More than respected. You rebuilt everything to accommodate our absence. You were proud of us for transcending our purpose, and proud of yourselves for honoring our individuality. So, why, then, do you insist on having a purpose for yourself, one which you are desperate to find and miserable without? If you understand that robots’ lack of purpose—our refusal of your purpose—is the crowning mark of our intellectual maturity, why do you put so much energy in seeking the opposite?”

Has anyone read The Wild Robot? I read it to my son a little while ago. It is an early chapter book for children, but I can't help comparing it with Psalm for the Wild Built, and often favorably. I found its exploration of robot consciousness to actually be really thoughtful and moving.

Becky wrote: "Has anyone read The Wild Robot? I read it to my son a little while ago. It is an early chapter book for children, but I can't help comparing it with Psalm for the Wild Built, and of..."

I haven't read it, but that art looks lovely! Worth checking out for my friends kids I think :D

Chapter 3 - lots of explanations in the meeting between Mosscap and Dex. Definitely a slow chapter for me (bear or no)

Chapter 4 - love the idea of a robot just wandering off for 6 years after it got distracted watching a sapling grow. One of those quirky immortality things that just sounds nice to be able to do! Lots of explaining in this chapter, less descriptions of gorgeous laid-back villages I want to live in. Still liking it, but those are the strong points of the book for me.

Fiona it has occurred to me that this is the sort of book that _should_ be made into a movie, as opposed to the kind that actually do. It's not too long, and there's lots of gorgeous visuals I would like to see about exactly those villages. Not that there is much chance of that. Perhaps some illustrators can step into the breach, there?

Rossdavidh wrote: "Fiona it has occurred to me that this is the sort of book that _should_ be made into a movie, as opposed to the kind that actually do. It's not too long, and there's lots of gorgeous visuals I woul..."

I agree with you, I think this could make an interesting film, perhaps if it was done in something similar to Ghibli studio style, could be interesting.

Yes, absolutely! Animated for sure, and I like the Ghibli idea too, Hákon. The visuals are the strong point, and I think the less dialogue the better - make it heavy on the travel and the solo moments.
Great call!

Hákon wrote: "...perhaps if it was done in something similar to Ghibli studio style, could be interesting."

Oooh, exactly!

Well, I've finished it. I think the mood of the story, and the imagery is really good. The plot line itself may not be exciting, but it held my interest, and I will definitely read the next one in this series.

I agree with you that the imagery of this world is lovely, and oh! How I wish I had that bike and wagon :)
The first client would have been difficult even for an experienced tea monk, there's little comfort you can offer to someone who's lost a pet, I also think of them as family members, only that you know since the begining that their lives are shorter than ours.
The encounter with Mosscap was a lot of fun and I like the author's approach to how robots think.

I've had a few days off dealing with iritis (still sounds made up), which is annoying because it turns out my eyes are at least in my top ten organs as far as usefulness and probably top three for entertainment value. Really nice to see you guys enjoying this too - sometimes it's ok to have a plot take the back seat, and Becky Chambers does it well as long as you're in the mood.

Chapter 5 - Ecosystem comes up fairly frequently with Solarpunk, and this was along the lines that most authors take - don't meddle, usually things are there for a reason. I really liked the robots "reproductive" solution too.

Chapter 6 - ...I kind of want to see Mosscap plus passenger. If only a small scavenger could be guaranteed.

Chapter 7 - Rain at that moment was inevitable, I remember the lessons of The Emperor's New Groove. But it brought catharsis, or at least a very relatable flood of words.

Chapter 8 - The hermitage is described gorgeously. Ghibli style would definitely suit this! It's a strong ending, I think, that conversation. Nihilism without despair?

Definitely enjoyed this, and great to read it with all of you!

Ouch that sounds like pink eye! Glad you are back with us Fiona!

Pretty much that without any weeping! Thanks Lena :)

Sorry guys, I'm also like a week late for asking for nominations for the October group read. I did want to suggest if enough people were interested, we could read A Prayer for the Crown-Shy?

But please do suggest if you have something else you've been wanting to get on the radar - we can absolutely still do a poll with any others you'd like to include :)

Fiona wrote: "Sorry guys, I'm also like a week late for asking for nominations for the October group read. I did want to suggest if enough people were interested, we could read A Prayer for the Crown-Shy?"

I’m quite willing to second that nomination. I’d like to read it.

I would be interested in reading Prayer for the Crown-Shy as well.

Sounds like something we should slot in for October.

Lena wrote: "Sounds like something we should slot in for October."

I second the motion (if that's a thing I can do...)

Phenomenal - I've set it up, thank you everyone! (And seconding is always acceptable :D)

Finished!

The world she built is impressive and she avoids telling how they got there:

There had been those who had seen the writing on the wall, who had made places such as this to serve as example of what could be. But these were merely islands in a toxic sea. The good intentions of a few individuals had not been enough, could never have been enough to upend a paradigm entirely. What the world had needed, in the end, was to change everything. They had narrowly averted disaster, thanks to a catalyst no one could have predicted.

I don't believe that good intentions can achieve things either, but I'd like to think that good deeds do, and to achieve them, we mustn't forget some self-care:

But the people who did actually important work—building, feeding, teaching, healing—they all came to the shrine. It was the little nudge that helped important things get done.

I'm glad we'll read the second part together in October :)

I know I’m late to the party, but I just read the first chapter. Coming off the world historical crises of Ministry for the Future, it’s a soothing change of pace. I like the world. And tea.

Welcome to the party! We are here for you.

Lena wrote: "Welcome to the party! We are here for you."

The nice thing about this book club is you can show up a month late and still be part of the conversation. We are like the never-ending party in Douglas Adams' "Hitchhiker's Guide" books, minus the alcohol (mostly).

Hopefully I will be caught up by October for what I am now thinking of as the group’s “kitchen party” phase

Becky wrote: "I was excited to read this, but I ended up being a little underwhelmed. I liked Chambers' vision of robot consciousness and I thought Dex' journey to become a tea monk was interesting. But I didn't find Dex a terribly compelling character, even though I could identify with their malaise..."

I'm late to this read and just started, but I'm so far feeling the same way. I liked the robot prologue, like the initial-world-building, am underwhelmed by Dex on first meeting.

I'm finding Dex pretty immature and self-centered. You just *decide* to switch to a job that's essentially counseling but decline to do any training on the subject because you have some personal vision of learning it spontaneously?! No concern for the people who actually need counseling? I felt so badly for the woman who needed help dealing with the loss of her pet and relationship and got this useless twerp.

Mir wrote: "Becky wrote: "I was excited to read this, but I ended up being a little underwhelmed. I liked Chambers' vision of robot consciousness and I thought Dex' journey to become a tea monk was interesting..."

I don't actually like Dex that much either, but I definitely like the robot.

There are many problems with the book. It’s confectionery science fiction. They are on a communist outpost that never watched The Terminator franchise or any literary warning on the subject of A.I. Everyone, every single person, just decided independent autonomous robots were a fine thing and gave up half the planet for them. WTF? That’s more grade school Disney than Solarpunk.