Gentle SPECTRUMS discussion

Hi Ladies! Leeanne likes "Shipwreck" (2011) and "Except The Dying" (1997) enough to stay with Maureen Johnson's series. However, she bids us to go ahead with this novel because she is busy with school into July. What say you?

I expect to finish my present Canadian book, "The Green Library", in a few evenings. Please choose a period when you can pop in with comments everyday and continue awhile after reading the mystery. We can do better than making two comments in progress, then fizzling; right? Your friend, Carolyn.

Dear Carolyn, I'm ready to start Poor Tom Is Cold whenever you and Kerri suggest, and try to do my best to write every night. We may have a few busy weeks as moving, but don't worry, I'll catch up with you, like to read next Maureen. :)

Shirin, you took a long time to find a new home. Please e-mail me and tell me what's up. You also have my happy e-mail update yesterday. Your friendship and support mean everything to me.

I have looked forward for about a month to know how you like the new buddy reading list in message #20 of "Suggested Buddy Reading". This is under the folder heading "Items Of 2022". Love, Carolyn.

Yes, we have to move again, and I got happy to read your happy e-mail. I will write you an e-mail in a few days and choose the books from your great list you wrote, thank you!

I will be able to start this whenever suits, though I will probably only have time to read one or maybe two chapters per day, which will hopefully be OK. :)

Hi Kerri! I could tell you were busy or with internet challenges, because there have been news updates to e-mail about. The sombre one but one of relief and respect, is that Ron & I are holding our precious McCartney's service this Saturday, in two days. It is 3 days ahead of his 22nd birthday. Now we can think of him and celebrate him properly, with his physical body laid to rest.

Would rather e-mail about this but might as well share with all my girls. You all know my e-mail address for supportive replies or messages for our McCartney. I will feel all of you with me that afternoon and of course Timmy too. His family might send a letter to read for McCartney's service and go with him afterwards.

I am reading "The Root Cellar" by Janet Lunn, an awesome piece of Canadian work I missed as a child in 1981. On our memorial week-end, we have gardening and yard work that Ron is finally able to help with. There is rain Saturday night to finish ahead of.

If we don't start Maureen's book me until Wednesday, is that a freer time for you, Kerri? How much you read is less important than how regularly you write and reply. :) With love and gratitude to all of my caring friends around the world, Carolyn.

Hi Carolyn,
Sorry I have been communicating less recently. I've been unexpectedly busy and this week my Aunt has been up from Wellington -- she is looking at houses for when she moves up, which is a nice thing to look forward too! I'll make sure to check in with the discussion for this buddy read each day as we read, and should have much more time from early next month to start catching up fully with everything else, especially my reviews, which are piling up, and emails etc as well.

I'm pleased that you were able to have the service for McCartney. I hope it was cathartic for you and Ron to be able to mourn him and share your memories of him. I'm sure it would mean everything to know how loved he is.

Did you get the rain over the weekend? We have been having stormy weather for the last few days, though luckily we are decently sheltered where we are, so the wind hasn't caused too much damage in our immediate area.

Wednesday would be fine as a time to start, if it suits everyone else. I'm not sure if it is coincidental or not, but since we started reading this series, I have been seeing ads for the TV series online quite frequently -- though they have been for the most recent seasons of the show, but I recognised the characters immediately because of the book covers!

Happy 22nd birthday to our dear McCartney for June 13. I am glad I reminded everyone before I was off-line and of course am grateful for all the sunshine that is possible to come our way, garding the cat Son we so recently miss. I'll share most personal details in e-mail. It was a good service from Ron, Angel, Petal, & I. Timmy sent his blessings from out-of-town.

Shirin does not see activity at the group unless I leave a message to direct her and you sound too busy to group read. Why force it? I will take a couple of days to finish "The Stone In The Meadow". Unless you & Shirin let me know you are free to converse and buddy-read, I will start "Bone Dance" by Martha Brooks afterwards. I have to keep hopping before the Canadian reading theme ends in two weeks. I look forward to knowing when your schedules are looser. :)

As I wrote in Amy Tan's thread, I love that you are seeing "Murdoch Mysteries" television ads. I just watched today's airing from 2010 and it was especially excellent, when William meets Anna Fulford in England. I have blown the idea of not watching it until we finish the novels. I only avoid storylines that seem to incorporate Maureen's books, which were probably all in 2008, the first television season. Xoxo.

Happy Birthday to McCartney. I am relieved that you were able to have your service for him, and then we free to celebrate his birthday.

I should be able to start the buddy read anytime from the start of July onward (from the 1st I will have more time to read and go online) if that suits you and Shirin? :)

Thank you for wishing our dearest McCartney happy birthday, Kerri! Words from us, friends, and family is the way to honour someone who isn't here in a body. We miss our boy like crazy and wish we had caught his health fast enough to hit 22 years. We strive to feel McCartney and our other loved-ones all around us.

I am free to read anything I like as of Canada Day, July 1 and won't be striving to reach an end of challenge quota. I must stop prodding Shirin each time there is something to look at in the group. I told her several times that we write a little something regularly. We will trust in her interest in catching-up.

Happy Birthday to McCartney, Carolyn! Sorry for the delay and my late response. I'm okay with starting anytime after 1st July. I try to finish a few of my books next week.

Dear Shirin, thank you for remembering McCartney with us. It makes me glad to have friends like you. Love, Carolyn.

Just letting you know that I am ready to read this whenever it best suits you both. I'll be spending the next few days catching up on Goodreads etc, but will finally have time to be properly involved in a daily discussion about the book! :-)

Okay, let's start tonight. Shirin, are you good to go as well?

Yes, it's excellent! I start it tonight, let's go! :)

I fell asleep with Angel & Petal after a few pages, so tonight will be my earnest start. Xoxo to my wonderful friends. You know better than anyone else that it is time for me and my family to have fun! So let's pick out a lot of fun books together. I put several on that buddy 2022 suggestion list. :) Silly, light, glitzy, bright.... anything that brings a smile will do.

Chapter Twenty-Two

I couldn't get to sleep last night, so I got an unexpected amount read!

As always it has begun strongly, hooking me immediately. So far it seems that there a few more likeable characters this time around, such as Mrs. Eakin (potentially), some of her fellow patients, and the family of Constable Oliver Wicken. I have also found Sam Lee and his son interesting.

It might sound odd but I enjoyed reading about William's trip to the dentist, thankful that it wasn't as painful as I (and he) had been dreading! His tentative flirtation with Enid is nice but I wonder if either of them would be willing to convert to a different religion - how would you fairly decide which of you should alter your beliefs? It seems a shame that they can't simply maintain their own religions and marry anyway.

If William does decide he wants to marry someone who is of his own religion, perhaps he could meet someone through his church? Don't they usually hold functions and dances?

As for Oliver Wicken, in all probability it was not suicide, though I am unsure how you prove that, unless you chance upon a witness. I would guess that Oliver saw something during his patrol and was murdered for it. Hopefully William can get to the bottom of it, especially since his mother needs the insurance money.

Mrs. Eakin has my sympathy so far - I know little about her, but it seems unlikely that she actually requires mental health treatment, except maybe in support with her grief and fear. I was worried that they might be aiming to have her undergo a lobotomy, but it seems forced sterilisation is the goal instead. How awful that she is unlikely to be offered any say in the matter.

Another thing I wondered, though it is jumping ahead a bit - if William were to marry, would he stay on where he is or be expected to have his own home?

Great Kerri, I didn't read very detailed your comments but I think this book may be a good reason that you couldn't get to sleep too. :)
I'm currently reading chapter six, I'm not sure what is going on yet, but and sounds engaging.

All right, some pages to talk about! Like Shirin indicated, there were no observations, then Kerri was too far ahead for us to comment. Did you only have a short session before ending up ahead? I am in chapter 22 now, on page 222 serendipitiously and can read and expand upon what is here. Short bits all along the way are ideal but I understand riding along on a burst of reading when the wind carries us.

In this year 2022, let's take for granted that "marriage" means any committed union, such as my nearly 22 years with Ron. My goodness, that makes five serendipitous connections of the number. McCartney was nearly age 22, in this year 2022, it is mine & Ron's 22nd anniversary next month, and I am on page 222 in chapter 22 of our shared novel. Are there meanings to derive herein?

Yes Shirin & Kerri, this novel is a heck of a lot better than the previous two. Immediately, Maureen Johnson loses a star for using the image of murdering a cat to prevent pregnancies. She must have read too much Lucy Maud Montgomery after her Canadian emigration. I will not abide the word "have to", hating if people use it regarding euthanasia or murder. LIFE AND HEALING ARE CHOICES!

I see too many disagreeable personages even though this is a fictional murder mystery. Other fiction like Anne Perry's succeeds at making up cases without adding too many assholes, nor focusing on their viewpoints overmuch. Segues like William's experience at the dentist, with Enid, at home, and at work are awesome because it is he we should follow. Too many other narrations slow the pace and interest for me. We should obtain everyone's information from William, with a minimum of flipping around. Having Peg's perspective makes sense and she should be the only other narrator.

I agree this novel is a lot less digusting and contains fewer assholes than Maureen's previous ones. It still feels too English, not Canadian enough, and old-fashioned. My old relatives from the early 1900s were coffee drinkers, all of them. As a writing aside, I hate "backwards" and "forewards" without S and "whether" used without "or not". It is a British thing but I feel "if" should be employed, except when "or not" is included.

When you watch the television show, you'll enjoy how Canadian and modern the early 1900s look, sound, and feel. They shouldn't feel primitive or removed from us, as Maureen makes them sound. This is the first novel I've read since deciding I would enjoy the television show as often as I wished and only avoid episodes derived from these books. We were wise to start without knowing the show because it is far superior but I have maintained the ability to separate them as a different set of characters and stories.

I think I hear thunder, which can be ruinous for dial-up internet modems, so I will continue later.

Let's assume in this year 2022 that "marriage" includes any committed, common-law union. Religion should not dominate life but similar spiritual faith is essential compatibility between couples. It is nothing to do with society demanding that two people be catholic, protestant, black, or white even in Canada of 1900. Compatible core beliefs is how couples and to a degree, friendships work.

The way you choose, Kerri, is to defer to the more spiritual person. If one cares less about it, they would go with the flow of their beloved. William in the books and on television is a very spiritual person inside his heart but he is open to discussion on religious and traditional doctrine. Flexibility and clear thinking in place of blind adherence, is an ideal state. I could see him working with his Welsh lodger.

I continue to dislike Beatrice Kitchen very much. Doesn't anyone else see it? She is too blindly religious and only seems nicer than terrible external characters of these novels. She is bossy and pushy too. It comes across sweetly because William and Arthur instantly fall into step for her. I will acknowledge a few things to the service provided to lodgers and men of the time, hanging their coats and getting their suppers. However today, I would consider the focus on my goings-on overstepping.

My Mom babied me, rambling to my landlord that I was moving out for the first time, even though I was the age of you both! Like the two of you I believe, I was mature and only happened to live with my folks to save money amid university debt. The landlord treated me like a kid, the way I wanted to avoid. I didn't tell the well-meaning landlady to fuck-off but was firm on those few pushy instances.

This book told us or reminded us that Arthur & Beatrice had a baby for 3 weeks. It is sad that they lost him and they will forever be parents. But it takes a good decade to engrain the otherwise gross nickname of "Mother" to your wife. It disgusts me that Arthur calls Beatrice that. Those are my criticisms, along with any person being controlled by a spouse, such as being sent to an asylum or having an operation without agreeing to it.

It was bad enough that our government came close to demanding vaccinations, which is another intrusion on bodies and beliefs, no matter how anyone viewed the virus vaccine. I will never vote for Justin Trudeau because he attempted to do that.

The positives are numerous, pleasures difficult to name that are built into reading this book, if that makes sense to you. Like you Kerri & Shirin, I am interested right away and love all the scenes about William. I like the same families and people you do. Sam pisses me off for cheating on his wife and assuming sexual needs and loyalty are different from one gender to another. The mystery is unique and touching for being a fellow officer.

Sam annoys me anew for jeapordizing the truth by thinking it easier to help the coroner close a case fast, instead of discover why a woman was masquerading as Oliver's fiancee. I understand that minorities were not believed respectfully enough but our strength and wholesome character needs to be shown. We lead and teach by example, not by keeping a misconception running amock. Any guesses about the mystery?

Thanks Shirin! Hopefully you are still finding it engaging. :)

I just had the one extended reading period where I read a big chunk in one go, but since it's been a chapter or so a day.

Interesting how you've noticed all the 22's and 222's Carolyn! I like the phrase 'serendipitous connections' to describe it!

I noticed the cat killing as well, though was relieved that it wasn't a prolonged focus of a chapter like in the 'Anne' book.

It's interesting that you mentioned Anne Perry - I haven't read her work, but I wonder if I would like her - do you find her good?

I think you are right, it would be better if she stuck with William, and if she needed another perspective just one would be better - in this case Peg. Although I'm finding this one more palatable than the last, I have the same complaint of wanting more focus on our main character. One of the highlights for me so far was the slightly giddy William stomping through puddles after his dental appointment - it was sweet and funny. Also when he visited the sweet shop, simply because it made me crave barley sugar, even though I'm sure the packaged, mass-produced stuff I am used isn't a patch on the handmade kind in that shop!

I am looking forward to the increased Canadian feel of the show, especially since it seems that the show focuses more on the reoccurring characters than the book series so far - though it will be fun to see how much we learn with the next book in terms of William's past and family.

I think you are right Carolyn about deferring to the more spiritual person. That both William and Enid have shown a tentative interest in the others religion does indicate that they are each seriously considering the possibility of a relationship. Whether it will pan out I'm not sure, especially because I can't work out if he dislikes her son. Not getting on with a love interests child isn't ideal, but they may warm to each other with time. I gather they don't know each other that well yet. Another factor, something I can't recall though I'm sure it has been mentioned, is how long Enid has been a widow for? Because she might not be in the same place as William is emotionally, or she may grieve differently. Depending on whether her marriage was happy or not, she may be torn about marrying again.

I have mixed feelings about Beatrice - on one hand I appreciate her devotion to her husband and think she is a well intentioned woman, but I do think she oversteps, and she can be quite condescending. I think she loves William (in a maternal way) , but is overbearing about it, and perhaps a bit of a meddler. Also, while I appreciate that she wants to help her husband and of course not knowing as much about about TB back then she is trying everything, but sometimes I think she will wear him out with her attempts to fix him. Since antibiotics weren't around for it yet, his best bet, not for a cure, but an improvement maybe, is fresh, clean air. Doctors were divided over whether it should be sea or mountain air, but I think what really mattered was that it was clear and free from smog and pollution - I doubt they could afford it. Something that does worry is that tuberculosis is highly contagious, and you get it from breathing, so everyone in that house is at risk...

I've never been particularly fond of calling your spouse mother or father unless you are at that stage of trying to get the child to mimic, but I doubt Arthur and Beatrice were at that point after a few months! I find it a bit creepy, but perhaps it is his way of acknowledging that loss and that they are parents? I'd prefer a different approach though!

I'm curious with Sam as to whether his reluctance is due to the explanation he gave, or if there is something more to it, someone specic he is afraid of? I think his son will view him differently now, which could affect things.

I'm still in the dark about who killed Oliver, don't even have any strong theories, and I'm still a bit confused about Peg's situation - obviously something terrible happened to her son, but I can't figure out why the family she married into behaves as they do. They are very creepy and I would hate to live with them - Peg so far seems nice enough, and I feel sorry for her that she is grieving yet seems to be receiving no support with it. I do hope William finds her before she is operated on.

Anne Perry is spectacularly special to me. I was glad to try her and see that her writing, plotting, pacing, and character-building are excellent after collecting her books for years. You would love her, Kerri. Anne's work too is all about the policeman's family with humour and criticial commentaries on society in the same time period. The début is called "The Cater Street Hangman".

What glued me to her in a sacred way is that I was reading this introductory novel, the terrible night in 2014 that Love suddenly went to Heaven. He was our first baby to go but should have had 20 plus years ahead at that shockingly young age. I felt sick to my stomach each night I slept and each day I awoke, for a long time, until a vet told me heart failure couldn't have been stopped no matter how quickly we consulted a vet.

We haven't been the same. Three years later, today in the year 2017, was the last time we saw Conan. Today, it has been five years. Alcoholism crept into our family since then. However, as you know thank God, things are much better. As for Conan: we do not give up on good people, his love for us, God, Conan's tattoo, and the advertising you help with. May the prayers of friends never give up either. May Mom, McCartney, Spirit, and his Mom Marigold guide our boy home to us very soon.

I am on page 162 in chapter 26 in "Poor Tom Is Cold" Criticisms emerge in conversation first. Later, things we love are served like desserts at a party. I smiled about those same puddles!

We are in harmony that we love seeing a real, relatable person in him and not a hard-boiled detective front. In "Except The Dying", Shirin loved it when William splashed in his foot bath basin and imagined it was the Atlantic Ocean. It worked well for our introduction that we had just read "Shipwreck" from his childhood. As Mom would say, "I am chomping at the bit" to read the next novel, featuring a return to Nova Scotia. I guess my Mom has long used a horse expression. :)

I did not think the Eakins were nice enough to eldery horses either. Besides fooling someone into buying an older horse than served their needs and the sweet horses', forcing her to jump in discomfort was awful. Rabbit stew upset me too and I wish Maureen had shut up after naming the stew, if she found that factor important. We think of William as an animal lover.

I don't believe it was the gas boosting William's joie de vivre. I say it was the relief of a dentist healing his problem and releasing the fear of trying him out. What must it be like to try a procedure that is new, not old hat like dentists are to us. We grew up in a flurry of innovation so we could draw our own examples and it would be nice to recognize the many experiences that are new to us as well. What might you say they are?

I thought about what I would add in my first entry and am sharing it today, a trivia treat. Is dentistry a free coverage in Iran and New Zealand? It is not here and neither is medicine, which would have made life much better for Mom & Dad. Mom often delayed treatment and medicine she needed and look what happened. We lost her at 75 from mini-strokes and other health issues that might not need to be. Don't get me started on what I know now about even basic energy healing saving her. Her outcome was preventable. The Green Party wants free dentistry and medication for us.

The fun fact is that people delayed going to doctors too in William's fictional time, before the NDP (New Democrat Party) introduced medical coverage. It was introduced in the year 1957 and made official across Canada in 1966. That first NDP leader was Tommy Douglas. Her famous Daughter, Shirley Dougas (referred to in a joke on "Corner Gas"), married the also famous Donald Sutherland. She ascended at the same time as my Mom. You can see who Shirley's & Donald's twin children are: Rachel and Kiefer Sutherland! How cool is that? Kiefer's Grandpa introduced health care to Canada, even though the NDP have never held the Prime Minister's seat.

Anyone in William's time was brave to go to a doctor or dentist, not only for being new but wondering what it might cost. We hesitate to visit vets until we really feel pushed. I am waiting for health care provided for animals, who are family members for us today in 2022, with whom our financial plans are shared. Political programs matter, even if we have little taste for campaigns.

Yes, it is awesome that Enid Jones & William are open minded and interested in each other. I don't think he dislikes the boy. I think William is making notes on behaviour that needs to be improved in case he became a stepfather. He was willing to sit down a play a boardgame. What seems like rudeness in people is often shifted the minute we guide them appropriately.

I don't get women like Peg not going elsewhere, if speaking up didn't work. She did not choose a safe place to stay with her Son and I too, am appalled to wonder what happened to him. Actually, I know a Grandma who chose a benefactor for her children and it turned out poorly for her; something for private e-mail. Marrying for love, or a properly arranged mate is important.

Ron's folks were catholic but he wasn't into it and I used to be devoutly protestant but love life better without that too. We were open enough to ways in which religion didn't make sense and flexible enough to find our own way. I enjoy this about Maureen's books. I am curious if William is a scientist, or if the television series made that up. Yannick Bisson's character is a crafty MacGyver type, who is prim & proper and only opens up to people who know him. William in the novels seems more fun but probably because books make us privvy to his thoughts and feelings.

George Crabtree, played by the awesome Jonny Harris is very different. Leeanne & I can't get enough of his "Still Standing" comedy show and now Ron enjoys it too. He is single and slight, not large with 5 kids. Otherwise, his personality seems similar; smart, helpful, and trusted. Henry Higgins is minimal in the book and on the show. I wonder how he progresses in print. Inspector Thomas Brackenreid is definitely Scottish, colourful, and an assertive boss on TV but likes and respects William. We get to know his family and he is a key cast member, which is why his photograph is on the books.

You make a good point about Sam avoiding a threat that readers are unaware of. I am not a fan of what people call an "unreliable narrator" and didn't fathom what it meant, until you suggested that. I follow what is written and like to think correct information can come from analysing it. It didn't occur to me that he lied to his Son, Foon as well as in court. I would rather Maureen do that for a plot reason, than Sam be weakly compliant to avoid answering questions.

My guess about the mystery is that the new information about Oliver's Mom and what we learn from Peg, are the solutions. It must be for a reason that Maureen presented but put off explaining what happened to the little boy. Before I fell asleep, William realized there was a reason Oliver hid his engagement from his iron-willed Mom, who spoke with the demeanour of someone who had managed servants. The house is hers but after the departure or loss of a husband, she rents the second floor. We also know from Oliver's childhood books that she is strictly religious, the opposite of the "marry anyone, screw anyone" Eakins. What does this suggest? I will think about these clues.

She does. Sound good - I don't have any of her books, but I imagine they shouldn't be too difficult to find since she seems to be well regarded.

Its interesting how the books we were reading during such monumental times, especially loss, stick with us. I am sorry about Love, it must have been terrible. I do hope that you are reunited with Conan soon.

I only got one chapter read today and it was a brief one so I don't have much to add about it. I spent a chunk of the day in town, had lunch with my Dad and went to a bookshop where I found some good books, including a big pile of 'Sweet Valley High' books. I've been collecting them since I was about twelve and I've almost got all of the core series now!

In response to your comment, I disliked the treatment of the horse as well. I know that sort of practice used to be commonplace, but it is unpleasant to read about. I didn't actually notice the details about the stew, I think because I was distracted thinking about the potential pain of his mouth if he misjudged a bite.

That's a good point about his being relieved after the dentist visit - I think may of us can relate to that apprehension he felt and then the relief when it goes more smoothly than anticipated.

It is interesting to consider our own new experiences. My first thought jumped away from medical things and leapt to technology - things that were once implausible but are now commonplace, even like using this website to talk to people scattered all over the world!

Dentistry is not usually free here - I think there is some exceptions for emergency dental situations, dental problems caused by an accident (like a car crash) if you are covered by ACC or possibly if it stems from a health problem, but even then it can be difficult. Unfortunately it's one of the most expensive areas of medicine, and I think it's unfair that dental checks and treatment should be financially unavailable to many people. And although we have a health care system that is I think similar to the UK and Canada, it doesn't cover everything, some medicines are quite expensive, or completely unattainable - it bothers me that many people miss out if they don't have the finances to cover the cost themselves. And at the moment because of Covid there are massive backlogs on surgeries and appointments. I know hospitals can't help being overrun with patients sick with Covid, but it is hard for those who have to wait extra months or longer for a hip replacement or cancer treatment.

I had read that Kiefer and Donald Sutherland's family was well known in Canada but I didn't know all that about his grandfather. That's a pretty incredible family legacy!

It's interesting to think about William maybe being a stepfather - of course he'll have to factor that into his potential courtship, because I think he is a nice man who would be unlikely to want to send the boy away to boarding school or something - unless Enid wanted that. He would be much better to the boy than whatever took place in Peg's home. Not knowing all the details yet, it does bother me that she chose a kind of vague financial security (perhaps) over fleeing with her child. Of course there may be a revelation to show us why she didn't, but for know I feel a bit dissatisfied with her approach.

I had another possible theory about Sam, that he might be in love with one of the prostitutes, but withheld this from his son, because that would be an awkward conversation! But I'm not sure, I know so little about what is happening.

That's a good theory about learning more about Oliver's mother - it does intrigue me how in some ways Olivier was clearly devoted to his family, but he also kept a lot from them. Is it as simple as not wanting them to feel abandoned, or is there more too it?

It is fun to talk daily, including the challenge of delighting in more to comment on than my follow-up paragraphs fit in. I hope to update the odds & ends now. It is a cloudy morning, when helpful sun & breezes are already challenged in the worst mosquito summer I have experienced. I run outside briskly. If there is work out of doors, we dress over every area despite the 30C heat, even up to net headgear!

Ron taught me and I observed on fun drives, that fish eat mosquito larva in lakes, oceans, and rivers. You do not want standing water in ditches and marshes. We are grateful for the rain for our gardens, plants, trees, and the safety of our forest homes overall. However, talk about surprising us with bites and itches, even in the house. I close the bedroom door in the evening so they don't hide there when I settle to read.

Thank you for continuing to support and encourage us. We are staggered by the wait of missing and hoping for our cat Son for five years. May joy abound around all of us right now and sustain the years ahead in great health, happiness, and in lightness.

Yes, Anne Perry is an English girl who has spent most of her 80+ years in Scotland. She is fantastic. She had a sad past about a mistake changing her life that makes me sorry for her, in a way other people aren't inclined to sympathize with. I read an interview that she believed she didn't deserve happiness and did not couple. I hope she forgave herself. Maybe she was always talented; or knowing fear, hardship, sadness made her a genius, compassionate, daring authoress. She connected with our precious Lovey and eased my pain that hardest week. Thank you for always acknowledging what I share, my dearest friend, Kerri.

A Sister was killed, whose loss was cried about in the most touching, realistic way I have read. Charlotte spoke of how this Sister taught her to read, do her shoes but that this loss must not compare to coming from the body of their Mom, the grief she must feel. I remember all the books that sympathized with me the next few times I read anything. Thank goodness I chose well and the right ones came to me. Gail Bowen's "Deadly Appearances" and Penelope Stokes' "The Wishing Jar" too.

I hope you know Shirley, Donald, Kiefer, & his twin Rachel are not only well known. They ARE Canadian. "The Ryans" are too: Gosling and Reynolds. Add the young new Muslim "Marvel Comics" actress, Iman Vellani and Simu Liu, who hosted the "Juno Awards" that I didn't watch. I caught him in a couple of sitcom episodes of "Kim's Convenience" and enjoyed it.

As for your part of the world, I have seen a few "Ghost" episodes and marvel at Rose McIvor's ability to conceal a New Zealand accent. I presume she has one. I don't know if I would have guessed she was putting on an accent, except it is too neutral. That way I think of putting it is that she sounds North American like a blank slate. There is no regional flavour of coming from anywhere. Otherwise she is perfect and the show is compassionate, original, and funny. There is the chitchat part updated.

I am on page 336 in chapter 33. I fell asleep quickly with Petal & Angel but awoke with my glasses & lights and found the vigour to read further on. I'll be done tonight, so I hope Shirin chats and guesses with us a few times now and afterwards. Let's keep talking after we finish books and extend our fun, right? :)

I understand fear of racist repercussions. I don't think a good character is built nor contributed to society in a way that earns respect, by lying because avoiding follow-up questions and closing a case is easier for you. Could he not think of the help the victims need? I criticize a German labourer for doing the same.

It was wrong that Maureen Jennings had him drinking tea too. My relatives from that time period are German and ALL OF THEM and my Dad's cousins today, drink coffee. My Godmother even wants a cup in the heat of a summer day. I love that Will is introduced to all kinds of coffee and loves it, including the Turkish sort I have not tried. People might have a cup of tea occasionally. It bothers me that so many people, even those who are actually addicted to tea traditions, aren't drinking juice and water enough. My fridge is full of four kinds of juice all the time. I do not drink soda. Right now I have cranberry juice picked & made by Ron, organic mango juice, 13-ingredient green power juice, tomato juice, kiwi & strawberry juice, pineapple juice, apple juice, and orange juice. I crave juice for hydration, enjoyment, nourishment, and flavour.

Whatever differences from the shows, with increased Canadian content visually and logistically; we owe Maureen Jennings thanks for Canada's most beloved detective cast and possibly our longest enduring television show. It doesn't appear that Will is scientifically inclined yet and another treat for you to look forward to on screen are famous 1900s personages whom we meet in the fictional stories.

It is natural for us to think about computer technology because that advancement rose quickly and is in our faces. I have had penpals since childhood but appreciate the internet for meeting more of you and hearing from you more quickly. I'll get back to that letter next week and am glad it will be a happy one, Kerri! I look forward to Shirin's detailed responses to a few special letters too. Medical and other advancements do abound. When Ron's Brother had cancer, a type of chemo was introduced that does not damage hair. My Dad is alive because they could remove a bladder and use a bag.

Essiac Aboriginal herbs and Chinese / Indian energy medicine are old knowledge people need to hear of, which might have helped our precious Spirit. Alternative healing is rising. There are advancements in kidney help: food scented differently, so that cats aren't bored. However, I have read a contradicting study that kidney problems need protein and that it should not be reduced until the last stage. Cats might last longer with it, from the allopathic standpoint. Not including what I know now about clearing energy in the meridian pathways.

As a kid I remember microwaves, videotapes, CDs, DVDs, cordless phones, and answering machines coming along. Dad had a good 8-track collection, which preceded tape cassettes. I still want a Futon, the couch that opens into a bed; maybe the only way we could have overnight guests in a small house. Dentistry is better. Instead of metal, I use white cavity filler that is stronger and matches teeth colour. Actually, Julia & William of the TV show constantly introduce new medicine and gagetry. Pens come with their own ink and I don't know when pencils came out.

I have not made guesses about the mystery but sense it involves learning more about Peg's and Mrs. Wickham's pasts. Were you at the part where Will found the religious books in Oliver's bedroom? Not ticking off a religious person seems more likely than caring for his Sister, Dora, after marrying. We need to identify the man who asked Anna to pose as Oliver's fiancee and what stake he had on hiding the verdict. He was probably someone from Nathaniel Eakin's house, those creeps.

I guess it is next door to the vacant house: we think one of them killed Oliver, don't we? However, I sense the motive pertains to Mrs. Wickham instead of her Son and that Peg was only in the wrong place. I closed the novel where Will realized he should speak with her and told Nathaniel he was going to whether he liked it or not. I felt as relieved as you must, about him reaching her before they tried to impose an operation.

Enid made a very intelligent point about Will taking an interest because she was handy. People in that day & age, like external Anne Shirley characters, marry quickly because they can't properly explore without a commitment and tried early eligible options. George reinforced that astuteness: if Will is willing to pursue Enid at a different house, that will say a lot. I don't know when she lost her husband either. The first novel might have said. It occurred to me the only Welsh celebrities I know share her last name: Tom Jones and Catherine Zeta-Jones! I am loving George in the books too, despite physical and family differences.

The only thing I like about Beatrice is trying anything for Arthur. Options are the better chance for success. I wouldn't say looking for cures tires anyone out but is worth it. I don't know anything about tuberculosis / consumption but you often refer to it. Do you have a special interest? You noticed details no one else did when we started the series. Fresh air, seeing birds and wildlife, and touching the grass under our feet is important for people and animals. I forgot that it must be contagious and wonder if Maureen did. Manitoba authoress Martha Brookes grew up near a tuberculosis hospital and wrote about it often, otherwise it would be unknown to me. I think I answered everything you contributed since July 8.

Some other point occurred to me that I will add it if it reappears. Now I will make a wild guess at working out this mystery. The method for reaching solutions that we read about and watch is going over what you know.

Mrs. Wickham / Wicken has a nice house but took boarders to supplement Oliver's income. Margaret / Peg was an orphan who became a talented dressmaker, urged to marry a widow. Her Son was recently poisoned and she hid in her bedroom because she believed it was on purpose. As a result, the family sent her to a sanitorium. She is cautiously asserting her sanity there.

What is the Eakin financial status? They have one young maid, Janet Curren(?). Do you recall the origin of her employment and why she cares about staying in that dismal place? I would get out. It is hard to please someone frustrated with you. I experienced that at a few jobs, disliked or not viewed as satisfactory.

The family is dissatisfied with each other. Do they care about being loved by their Dad / Stepdad, or is it about an inheritance? It is soon. He is old and as of chapter 33, unwell or harmed. Why did the married couples not move elsewhere? Do they have other jobs or are they financially tied to the household? Why not use the abandoned house for space and privacy? I think that is all and that the Lees and Anna are incidental. I am proud of Foon Lee's compassion and duty, for offering to help the police for the sake of victims and crime solving.

I think Oliver was only killed for being near illegal activity. My guess is that he heard Peg's call for help like Will and the German. I suggest he was answering her, like a good constable would. However, that would make his family connection coincidental. I wonder if there are connections, or if the closing chapters only explain Peg's story before Oliver strove to help her.

Sorry I missed writing yesterday. I ended up falling asleep earlier than usual, before I had added my comments. I was in town again, (two days in a row is unusual for me!) and got some more of the Sweet Valley High books. I only have 16 left to find now, out of more than 150. Then I'll finally be able to read the lot! Also, there was a different lady in the bookshop yesterday and she told me that all the books from the discount room, which is where I found the SVH books, are sold for the cat rescue charity, so that was nice to learn. I'll have to remember to check there regularly since it combines book buying with a charitable donation.

I have a little stack of books to go through and put away, which I think I will do tomorrow - a good way to spend part of a Sunday.

I didn't read any of the book yesterday but will be tonight. I saw that you gave it three stars so I'll be interested to know what lowered from the previous ones - perhaps I'll notice it as I finish my own reading.

The mosquitoes sound awful at the moment! We don't get many where we live now, but there used to be quite a few where we used to live. I hate them! I didn't know that fish ate mosquito larvae. There used to be a pond nearby and lots of ditches and big puddles so I suppose that's what drew them. Perhaps there were fish in the pond to keep them in check a bit - there were certainly eels!

Oh yes I have read about Anne Perry under her original name - it's quite a famous case here, and I remember reading a biography of Peter Jackson (he made a film about it) where he or a friend I can't recall who, expressed regret or mixed feelings that the film had led to her new identity being made public, which hadn't been his intention. It does seem sad that she feels she doesn't deserve happiness - I suppose it would be a difficult situation to have to live with.

I did know most of the Canadian actors you mentioned, and that they are Canadian, just not Iman Vellani, though I have seen trailers for the show and it looks good. I like Marvel but have fallen behind with the films - I still haven't even seen the Taika Waititi directed Thor movies, which I must watch since he is both a director I like, and a Kiwi too! I have heard of "Kim's Convience" but haven't seen any of it.
I am interested in watching the show "Ghost" - there's a British version as well, but I haven't seen either. I like Rose McIvor- it's interesting about the accent, I wonder if I would notice it or if I would be unable to pick up on it?

I am up to page 306,and and updating this conversation before I finish reading later on today.

I think both Sam and the German man need to tell the police all they know, even if it is easier to go along with the proposed theory. Especially if it might be affecting so many lives - not just Oliver, but his family, his fiancee, possibly Peg as well. I wonder if William is able to convey all this to them, or if he has to leave it, even if he suspects they are lying or omitting.

Interesting about the coffee vs tea - it was nice to see William trying something new in this book. I'm not sure what the case is today with tea drinking, but the book about Minnie Dean that I have almost finished reading mentions that in Scotland, people in poverty, especially women, drank a lot of tea with sugar. It's one of the reasons they were often poorly, because of the lack of nutrition, but the sugar was an energy source, and cheaply available. That's one of the reasons infants often struggled to thrive or died so easily, lack of nutrition for the breastfeeding mother. But then tea is also an upper class thing. Juice would have been useful back then as a vitamin source - like how pirates used to get scurvy from the lack of nutrients. Imagine if the could have taken orange juice with them and stored it like they did water! All the juices you mentioned sound nice, especially the cranberry, and the kiwi and strawberry one!

I suppose in Williams time juice would have been homemade too, like the cranberry. I wonder if his landlady would ever make it, or if it was a more expensive item at the time?

I had forgotten about CDs and DVDs. My first album was on a tape, then it was mostly CDs, now it seems to moving to both digital but also vinyl is selling more and more. Even things like the computer we had when I was a kid was this big second hand desktop, sort of square but rounded at the back, with a massive hard drive on the floor. We didn't have the Internet, but I could use it for games and typing school projects. Now there are still desktops, but they are much sleeker and load more quickly.

Another thing I was thinking of last night was riding helmets - the one I had as a kid was large and heavy and felt like a rock! Now they are light and have air vents, but are also safer and easier to wear.

Also, I used to look at displays in the hospital of the old medical equipment - the syringes were made of glass and had to be sterilised after every use. If a nurse dropped it on the floor it would smash, which must have been awful.
And online shopping too. Although I still like an actual store it is great to be able to find elusive books on the Internet and buy them.

I have reached the part with the religious books - I can't decide if Mrs. Wickham is simply a strict woman, or if she crossed the line into unfairly controlling. And was she afraid to lose her son to marriage because she depends on him, or because she feels possessive of him - perhaps both?

I too want to know who enlisted the fake fiancee and why. I suspect the Eakin's, though which one I have no idea, nor why exactly.

Enid's perception about her proximity being a factor is an intelligent one. Whether William feels he must pursue her if she was not right there will be interesting to see.

I found myself reading quite a lot about tuberculosis over the years, starting from when I was in primary school because I was given Katherine Mansfield as a study topic and she died from it quite young. And I read a book about the Brontes last year that covered a bit, and then did some Googling to fill in the gaps.

I would say Maureen knows it was contagious but certainly people did live in the same household with it and didn't always catch it. With the Brontes all but one sibling died from it, not just the three famous sisters and Branwell, but also younger siblings. Yet their father outlived them all. Or Katherine Mansfield's husband didn't catch it, although I think he had two wives die from it.

I did wonder during the reading whether a Sanatorium would have been an option for Arthur. I don't know when they opened in Canada, especially the ones specifically for TB. They had mixed results, but there was the benefit of being isolated so you aren't spreading it, and that they were usually somewhere where the patients could stay in bed but be outside in the fresh air. I don't know if they were free or if you had to cover the cost yourself. Neither Arthur or his wife have mentioned one though.

I can't work out the Eakin's financial status either. I suppose they own their own home, unless they rent. I think the father must have either money or assets, and the children want them. The maid comes from an orphanage I think, or something similar. She may not even know that she could try to find another job, especially since I think she arrived at the Eakin's household as a child.

I am not sure why the family all live together since they seem to hate each other. I'd guess none of them can afford to live alone until they inherit whatever it is they will inherit. I am also wondering if there is something more complicated going on with the romantic relationships, some sort of affair or secret?

I share your theory about Oliver, but like you that makes me wonder about his family, whether that is relevant or not. I'm looking forward to finishing it tonight and finding out!

Shirin, don't read this until you are done the novel. Kerri & I are discussing the end of the story from here onwards. Nonetheless, don't rush and please contribute your thoughts along the way. Stick with us and add small progress several times. :)

Kerri, if you ever read Martha Brooks, she wrote prolifically about sanitorium days. She lived in a Manitoba town that housed health care staff. Tuberculosis clinics, presumably cured, were closed so long ago before our time, they must have been open in Canada by the early 1900s of Williams'. I would only propose that it is still a choice with medical care: are we better in the comfort and protection of home, or risking a public hosptial for professional benefits? I shared in my note about Tommy Douglas, the Sutherlands' Grandpa, that Canadian health care wasn't paid for until 1957. Apparently the NDP's platform today asks for dental and medication coverage too, like the Green Party has sought for years.

Well Kerri, I am as curious as you are of my, why we trinkled down to three stars for this novel. We disliked the dirty atmosphere of grubby people and houses in the previous story and the horrific topic of assault in the first. We thought this novel was more pleasant to read but graded it inferiorly. For me it is because the plot was phoned-in. We saw by the ending that Maureen crafted no intriguing background about Mrs. Wickam or Peg. Readers shouldn't have better ideas than authors, should they!

It was only ever going to top out at four stars because I was sick of Maureen using "at" all the time with verbs, instead of simply writing: "poked", "scratched", "pulled" and you know I disliked "backwards, forwards, towards, onwards" without Ss. Once or twice is fine but an author seems to overdo irritating habits and three instances of animal abuse or killing made four stars all I could give.

It went down to three stars for the killing being an accident. Who argues with a police officer and hits him, to the point of accidental death? They should have stayed respectful or quiet, if they didn't want trouble for scaring or threatening Peg. I think her Son ascended from natural causes. He would not have been Nathaniel's heir anyway. Peg was right about sensing or overhearing that they had harmful plans for her.

I think the first two novels with more grim situations received higher marks from us because Maureen excelled as a writer. Would you say four stars rewarded novels that were better than the average ones? Besides turning to other people too often in this one, I enjoyed them very much until William got to the sanitorium. Worse than a weak plot was that stupid scene.

William believed Peg needed help, as she called out to him on the street before. She should have rapidly told him everything and if Maureen absolutely had to write that her body language alerted nurses; it is unbelievable that William allowed her to be carted away. They had a private interview, which is hard to screw up!!!! Why? Just so Maureen could add action and have Peg escape in a dumbwaiter later? Running around in a barn later and one Brother being nice and then dying, was too much as well, if it was for the sake of action and sentiment.

Let's hope this is the only Maureen Jennings dud. I am glad I am not the only one to give it three stars and love reading the series with you & Shirin. Later, we'll see what Leeane makes of the novels.

I wanted Mrs. Wickham's history but hoped there was nothing nefarious. Too often people conceal details from families, without giving them a chance to show they would respond to news better than it was assumed. Mrs. Wickham wouldn't have minded Oliver falling in love and marrying. He needn't share their roof to help with finances and care. As a boarding house, maybe he & his wife could have used the spare rooms. Being religious is natural to share with your child. I don't think we saw evidence beyond a few eyebrow raising books of that day.

Oliver raising suspicion by already having a fiancee broke the case and the German and Chinese witnesses eventually. I dislike coincidences or accidents in stories.

About Anne Perry / Juliet Hulme, I didn't see the tell-all film about her and didn't know Peter Jackson produced it. I am sorry she did not keep her privacy and hope there has been plenty of compassion and respect for her since that publicity.

Hello girls
I had a busy week and my laptop was broken, I am connecting with this extremely slow PC now.

Currently reading chapter 13
Carolyn, I am a little disappointed to see your three stars! as I read your and Kerri's comments about the cat killing and other things, I completely agree with you. At least, I'm happy to know this one is less disgusting and contains fewer assholes.
And the 22's and 222's you find about are serendipitous connections indeed.

Still, I'm far behind, I have no idea who might be the murderer. Carolyn, I will read your last few comments when reaching a little more.

I'm going to check Anne Perry! :)

I hope your laptop is fixable, Shirin! And hopefully you enjoy the rest of the book as well!

I will look up Martha Brooks, Carolyn as it sounds like she covers a topic I would be interested in.

I was a little disappointed to have the novel be let down in the final section. I had enjoyed the first half immensely, thought Maureen had built nicely upon the previous novels and was giving us a few welcome insights into William. I agree about the plot feeling phoned-in. I don't require every mystery novel to have a twist or reveal, but I do like them to feel original and logical.

I didn't mind the killing being an accident, but did feel it was a stretch that they would cover it up in such a way. And surely you would at least check the victim is actually dead first? Likewise, why make such a crude display of the body, which will only draw attention to the case? And I never fully bought into the necessity of the fake fiancee - it is so easy to disprove, so why bother?

Were they poisoning their father too, or did he simply have a stroke or some sort of natural ailment? I couldn't quite tell.

Although I liked Maureen's writing in an overall sense, I do think this one lacked something that the previous books had. Like you I enjoyed it a lot right up until Peg's meeting with William. Here I felt like the drama was forced and I rolled my eyes a few times, something the previous books did not cause! I wish that part had been executed better, instead of following several tropes I find rarely work.

I do hope that the next book will benefit from being longer and providing more backstory. I liked the mention of William's Nun sister, and the death of his mother - do you think that was really an accident?

There are things from this book that make me look forward to the next, such as whether William will pursue Enid, or move on to another. I think he is determined to marry, but I hope he doesn't rush into something just because of that. For all that he likes Enid, they haven't spoken much and during their last proper conversation she raised some good points that I think he needs to consider.

I too wanted more information about Mrs. Wickham. I didn't expect her to be revealed as a villain, but I thought she would feature more prominently than she did.

Also, was it just me or did it feel like the book ended even more abruptly than usual? I felt like I wanted another or chapter or two. I don't require all loose ends sewn up, but I would have liked to know how Mrs. Wickham fared, if she got her insurance, and perhaps if she got to meet Oliver's fiancee. Maybe I just wanted that because the mystery itself was a bit of a let down.

It is understood Oliver's insurance coverage was resolved. I share your feeling of wanting to see happy scenes played out, like dessert at the end of a meal, a wind down. Be prepared that Anne Perry's several early novels end with what I call "a thud", even though the mystery cases are solved all the way through.

My dear Martha Grimes, another favourite, got flack for a few myseteries closing too cryptically to understand their endings, defeating the purpose of special effects. The "Murdoch Mysteries" televisions shows close on dramatic notes, not necessarily showing criminals go to prison or the like but the cases are always finished.

On TV, women and children have been villains. The series doesn't mind getting creepy, as the era clops along in time towards modernization that they depict admirably. Believe it or not, there are Dracula, Hallowe'en, zombie, ghost fake-outs, and escape room episodes! I might change my mind when we join together on the upcoming family story but I feel that I am successfully separating the Wills to enjoy them both. Book Will seems more fun immediately but TV Will has the benefit of showing his compassion and care on the face of excellent actor, Yannick Bisson. I love the MacGyver science angle, which doesn't seem to come from Maureen's books. Oooo, when Yannick occasionally speaks French.... ahhh, that is lovely! :)

Something I am noticing and hearing a lot about is Newfoundland, our easternmost and last province in Canadian confederation. I had not known the Neufie accent before but Jonny Harris (and Alan Doyle of the old band "Great Big Sea") have certainly shown it to me on TV now. On the show, they make George Crabtree a Newfoundlander ("Newfie" might be an affectionate Canadian dig that I hope is not viewed as a pejorative. I hope it is as acceptable as "Kiwi" to you). It served the show well because there was a Newfoundland episode where Will joins George in visiting his Aunts at home and PERFECTLY sends him under cover, haha.

An interesting note is that they were visitors in 1900. Newfoundland did not agree to join Canada as our tenth province until the year 1949, when my parents were babies! On the other hand, Manitoba is the fifth province as of May 12, 1870. We were pivotal in starting the rest of the country west and north of us and mustering together (you see what I did there) the formation of the RCMP. The western and northern outposts needed law enforcers to allay battles between Aboriginal tribes and unruly visiting Americans. Kerri, Shirin, you may have heard of the Canadian gold rush in Yukon Territory. That fit into that time frame, shortly after California's gold rush. I look forward to seeing a "Murdoch Mysteries" show that is in Yukon and imagine that couldn't fake actually visiting to film it there!

To finish your other thoughts about the novel, now that you mention it, I guess Nathaniel's adopted or biological Sons were slowly poisoning him. We agree Peg's Son ascended naturally, don't we? It turns out step Sister was all right but I despite how quiclky everyone wants to call someone crazy and medicate them.

Wasn't your eyerolling from Peg not simply telling Will everything she needed to, while being alone in an interview with him? I also feel that rather than call out to Oliver from her window, Peg could have given a note to a maid, visited, or phoned someone prior to locking her room. Trying to talk to the Sons was twisted as a sexual advance but don't stop there. Seek help outside the family.

I remember what I wanted to add since I first made notes. I appreciate academic references but do not feel that Maureen's book titles tell us anything about her stories. There was no Tom or cold, which made me think of a crime in a blizzard like the first mystery. Only someone well versed in her reference material would get anything out of her quotations and we are well-read women. I think these quote derived titles are meaningless to most of us and aren't worth the few who recognize them.

What does "Let Loose The Dogs" have to do with Will's family? I hope his dear Mom ascended accidentally or from an illness by the water. I avoided the show about that book and a few others from the first season in 2008, to ensure the novels are new to me.

Yes, an accident can work as a death. I think we feel there needs to be plausibility about the way it occurred, why it was covered-up, and it has to be well written. No one is going to alert a policeman, punch him, or shoot him whether or not they are sure he had died; how stupid now that you mention it, Kerri.

You are right about pretending to have a fiancee being pointless too. Any business owner could have been hired as a lying witness. Doesn't that ruse rely on readers the Eakins knowing whether or not Oliver has a fiancee and if his Mom knows her? It would indeed have been nice to see Mom & fiancee support each other. Oliver should have introduced them and discussed problems. My Mother-in-law has ideas based on Ron's early, erroneous telling of things that occurred. He has told her "No", even though he long had trouble speaking up to her. If my parents disliked anything they should know, I dealt with rumblings and questions reasonably.

If you think of where the overall writing or storytelling quality was lacking, Kerri, do tell. I thought I disliked the plot and a few peeves but you might be onto something else. Now, I look forward to what you & Shirin add to our conversation! :)

Shirin, I am sorry about technical problems and being busy, I think. We are here for you to keep adding comments while you read. You will say something new for us to converse about. I have to keep reading new books because I don't have the high quantity finished that you two already do.

Yes, Anne Perry is a must. She is one of few historical fiction authors whom I love. She beautifully reproduces the feeling and environment of being there. She doesn't only add horse carriages and dresses to make it sound old.

Maureen Jennings' animal remarks were brief. She should skip them. I laughed at how you echoed with us that it is good to read a story that is less disgusting and has fewer assholes! Kerri & I wish it did not flip around to other characters but we enjoyed reading it, until some stupid scenes at the end. We will see what you think.

In real life, are nurses or doctors allowed to sedate or medicate without pre-approval and a lot of thought? Books and films make it look like the law allows them to take away or inject any irritated patient. I want no more stories in which a patient's concerns are disbelieved, with or without those stupid sedating stereotypes. I have the benefit of my Mom & I being close friends with a few nurses and will ask them for the answer.

I don't think I will mind the Anne Perry novels ending abruptly, it's not often a quibble I have, I think I just wanted this novel to have a bit more, I'm not sure why.

I like the sound of the science angle that the show has, I imagine that could be alot of fun!

I didn't know about Newfoundland being a later addition to Canada - 1949 is quite recent really!

I think it's probable that Peg's son died from natural causes. I don't think poison would cause the death they mentioned, and I don't see what reason the family would have had for killing him.

Yes I was mostly annoyed by Peg not telling Will everything. She was calm and reasonable throughout most her hospital stay, and not inebriated from medicine when they met, so her actions felt odd, and William not persisting with the conversation was too.

I wouldn't have picked up on the meaning of the book titles so far, and even with the quotes included I'm not sure I always get them. I'm not familiar with the source material or the context that they belong in.

I think "Let Loose The Dogs" features more of his William's sister, and I am interested in learning more since in this one he thinks about how they used to be close, but now she can only write once a year and her letters are distant. I wonder if this is because she is a nun, or if there are other factors that led to them drifting apart. I don't know what sort of relationship nun's are allowed to maintain with their families.

I still thought Maureen's writing was good in this book, but that there was a lack of flair this time. Still I admire many aspects, especially the times when the story focuses on William.

I've thought about the sedation/medicate question and I'm not sure. Today I think they can in some circumstances, but someone usually has to consent - a parent or spouse usually. I have known a few people that have been committed, and it didn't seem to be as easy as what happened to Peg in this book. And it was usually done for their own safety. However, I've read plenty of older books where it seems to be commonplace. I think Peg's husband had every legal right at the time to commit her and consent to or request medical treatment. I would hope that these days something like a hysterectomy would be discussed with a patient (though I don't think it's a mental health treatment anymore anyway). I'd be interested to hear what the nurses you know say about it.

You proposed subjects I am eager to visit. Our updates and side topics I added were lengthy enough, that I deferred some great conversations. There is no need to hastily converse about everything at once. One of many things I find reassuring and valuable about you, is that you get back to things and don't miss ground worth covering. Replying to succeeding posts or e-mails does not dismiss earlier ones.

Yes, the 2008 show I imagine and I think our next novel, "Let Loose The Dogs", has Will back in Nova Scotia with his Dad. I am glad he sees or discusses his Sister. Yesterday, I saw a repeat of the show with his Sister but as we said, they are very different characters and stories. As a fan of the written series with you, Shirin, and Leeanne; I know we are excited to continue Will's personal life from "Shipwreck". What a wonderful novella that added so much to our experience of this fictional person. Even watching the show, I defer to what I know from the novella when Will mentions childhood.

Yes, great strengths highlighted in the television series are his science skills, the effort to make the show feel as modern as they can by pushing every envelope from health, race, and sexual orientation; and meeting famous personages of the 1900s. There is even a cagey government official that gives some story arcs an "X-Files" flair, referring to secrecy rather than the paranormal. Family, friendship, loyalty among comrades, compassion, and humour ties everything together.

It is nice that you looked at old medical supplies but too bad if it came from hospital time. I loved looking at old pharmacy and hardware stores with my Brothers & Dad at "The Manitoba Museum Of Man & Nature". The old town was our favourite part, including a mini theatre in which we could watch a few minutes of a silent film. Manitoba's coup de grace is a ship! You can walk aboard "The Nonsuch" and bend your way into its stairs and rooms. Dad, my Brothers, Ron, & I laugh at how old tins or tools are in museums, if they familiar to us at our Grandparents' or Ron's parents' house.

It will be fun to elaborate in the music thread. I love hearing that you started with cassette tapes before compact discs. I enjoy MP3s for making music mixes but prefer collecting physical albums. I enjoy sharing that I have a huge record collection, including LPs, 45s, and 12" singles. I ended up with a large cassette collection too because I took awhile to get a CD player, a generous, quality gift of a heavy but portable stereo unit that is still working. Also, I collected records as long as I could, even travelling for them, when they disappeared in 1990. The few that you observe now cost something like $30 CDN because they are novelty pressings. I remember records being a normal album format option of $5.99 CDN in department stores. Dad went further and had a great collection of 8-track tape and a swivel rack.

Yes, Newfoundland is a late addition, which is odd because our confederation started in the east with provinces like eastern Ontario and Quebec. I loved getting to know the Newfie accent from Jonny Harris as George Crabtree and especially as himself, in his excellent travelling series "Still Standing". I wished I could picture what the accent sounded like, when I was reading Farley Mowat's great novel "The Black Joke" and his related memoir "The Boat Who Wouldn't Float.

Leeanne & I talk about "Still Standing" with high praise in the television thread. If you want to get to know Canada's small places, this is the show to watch and you would love it. Jonny mixes comedy with his spotlight on towns that need a tourism boost. I appreciate him even more and am his fan now. There are no blu-rays, therefore I set our satellite dish to tell me whenever his wonderful show comes on!

I have a tourism book featuring Newfoundland I look forward to pouring over with large photographs, a great charity sale find. I recently read a kid's mystery that taught me a lot about Newfoundland too. Like you, once I discovered something new, I notice it appearing before me here & there, which is delightful.

I know a bit about nuns because two of Mom's closest friends were school teachers with whom she kept in touch for life. They are "Tantes" to us (French for "Aunts"). They left the convent after Mark was born and lived together in a house nearby, instead of marrying anyone. Tante Evelyne is still alive at 90+. I've learned a bit about nuns from "Call The Midwife" too. Both indicate that practises changed drastically over the years, to the point where you could scarcely tell who nuns were, in the most modern attire.

Besides changing times, you must have read from historical fiction even more than I have, that the types of convents and monasteries vary, like "cloistered" private ones. A few series I like are about religious communities, by authors Sister Carol Anne O'Marie, Caroline Roe (Canadian), Margaret Fraser, and Ellis Peters.

I think I am catching up on your additions, Kerri and might as well continue onto your last two items. I tried a couple and was not a "Sweet Valley High" fan. I used to joke that this was all anyone read in my high school, while I was into V.C. Andrews. Mom & I stopped when ghostwriters completed Victoria's drafts and were making up new ones, rather thinly. I know "Sweet Valley High" was prolific and marvel at you nearly finishing the collection.

I am nearly done "Nancy Drew's" series and only have a little more to collect of the "Hardy Boys". You know well that I have almost all of Robert A. Arthur's "Alfred Hitchcock & The Three Investigators" mysteries, with some spaces in his ghostwriters sequels to fill in at leisure.

I notice you had been reading a novel called "Minnie Dean" for a long enough time that I am glad you are done on your behalf, haha. We learn all kinds of subjects from fiction, whether it is historical or modern. I dislike the popular penchant for historical fiction because most people hypocritically criticize naturally-aged fiction as "outdated" and little pisses me off more than that.

I also abhor the notion that everything fun and enchanting was discovered and all mysteries were solved long ago and that there is nothing to do nowadays. I prefer modern stories because I relate to them best and prefer the feeling that there is much fun, interest, and discovery waiting to be had in my present time period.

Your mention of "Let Loose the Dogs" having Will going back to Nova Scotia reminded me that I am looking forward to a change of scenery - not because I don't like where William lives, but it will be interesting to venture to a new setting and learn more about Canada. And like you say, getting to continue with Will's personal life after the insights from "Shipwreck" will be welcome.

The old pharmacy and hardware stores would be fun to see. I've been to a few places with old school houses, and similar setups from a couple of hundred years ago. It's amazing to think about how much is different yet how much we can still recognise from our own day to day life. It would be incredible to walk around the ship and imagine what it must have been like!

I wish I had kept all my old cassettes. I had lots a few years back because the car I had still had a cassette player, but when I sold the car I donated them all. I mainly have CDs at the moment and just did a clear out of the ones I don't listen to anymore. There are a few albums I wouldn't mind finding on Vinyl, especially old Split Enz records, but I'd have to get a player first!

I thought about "Call the Midwife" as well when I was wondering about nuns. I liked learning more about them from the show, and seeing a bit of a glimpse into what they did - prior to that they were a bit of a mystery to me! It will be interesting to see what kind of nun Will's sister does, and what it entails.

I hope you find those final "Nancy Drew" and "Hardy Boys" books before too long. I've read less of the Hardy Boys, but have always enjoyed Nancy!

I haven't read any of the ghost written Virginia Andrews yet - is there a noticeable difference once someone else took over? I have copies of a few, but want to read "My Sweet Audrina" and then the Flowers in the Attic prequel which I can't recall the title of right now, before moving onto the others.

Sweet Valley High is almost dauntingly vast! And then there is Sweet Valley Senior Year, Sweet Valley University, a spinoff about Elizabeth and some ten years later books. Plus I think Sweet Valley Kids, and Sweet Valley Junior High - they must have had scores of ghost writers to handle it all. The SVH books all say created by Francine Pascal, written by Kate William - - but there was no Kate William, its just a generic name that they put in. It's a shame because I would love to know if any of the ghost writers went on to establish themselves with their own original work.

It is cool that Mom kept in touch with a couple of special teachers who became like family, isn't it? It is also neat to know about nuns firsthand. Because they were best friends who made a life together instead of marrying, we didn't think that odd. In recent years of education about the wide spectrum of orientation, I wondered a little but what a tacky stereotype for today's mind to contemplate. They were probably in their teaching order since they were younger than some of our cats and sharing expenses with a best friend made sense.

I couldn't get into "Sweet Valley High" even when I was at the protagonists' age and always preferred the paranormal and mysteries. However, I certainly cheer you on for the completion of collections. I understand the concept of ghostwriters well after reading Melanie Rehak's "Nancy Drew" / "Hardy Boys" treatise. I wondered why how anyone could stand not putting their name on things but it was an honour to serve as Carolyn Keene or Franklin Dixon. Did you know? The original "Hardy Boys" author, Leslie McFarline, is Canadian. I prefer their novels to Nancy's for the increased adventure and as I have said, "The Three Investigators" beat all. I hope you read "Mystery Of The Stuttering Parrot" before giving it to me. Do read others that come to hand, especially early ones by Robert A. Arthur.

Gosh yes, if I am mentioning the shift in Virginia's namesake books, the decreased writing qualitiy was obvious. It was to Mom. For me, I noticed them reguritating similar off-putting plot lines: poor but gorgeous girl is related to bitchy owners of a mansion. A creepy person is their biological parent or sibling. I couldn't read "My Sweet Audrina" nowadays for the sexual assault theme.

As a kid somehow more dumbstruck than freaked out about terrible themes, I thought it was an original, unforgettable book. Even then I reacted angrily about family lying to a child in such an outrageous way. If you just want the drama of a very unique idea for a secret, it will have your pages humming; I'll give Virginia that. I hope it was left as a standalone story. The flowers series prequel is "Garden Of Shadows". You acquire some sympathy for the abhorrent Grandma but still go "Why end up acting that way?".

I hope some of our walkmans work but our cassette decks stopped. At first I thought it was the age of the tapes. I myself, gave away a lot of tape albums in this decade, to friends and family who have players. Because of the gap between records and CDs, I still have a ton of cassettes. I gained some space and gave pleasure to the people, for whom I believe they worked; confirming it was only our players pooping out.

One thing that ticks me off is people complaining about changes in novels, be it the style in which they are written, or the settings. I am happy you love fresh settings. It is a fine reason to look forward to "Let Loose The Dogs", besides meeting Will's family. I value originality and freshness highly, in life and in stories. I can't stand reading reviews in which people complain about the odd time that Louise Penny takes us out of her main village; a setting I like much less. I keep myself from writing "Shut up, they are there almost all the time. Grab a sense of newness, will you"?

Presuming she is on your list of authors in which to indulge, my two favourite Louise Penny stories to date are outside of the village: "Bury Your Dead" and "The Beautiful Mystery". Both are also thrilling and gratifying to my eyes, for including proper, non-crime mysteries that are ancient. You are clearly a Sister of fun changes, like in many other things, my dear Kerri!

I am recently reading chapter 17, I just read a few pages more,

"I still thought Maureen's writing was good in this book, but that there was a lack of flair..." Kerri, I don't know if the pauses, or delay causes me to forget something or if this book has a lot of characters that I feel confused about.

I think there is another reason that characters confuse me, Peg got crazy (act like crazy) in her home and her husband's children locked her, but now, she is in hospital and seems so calm, I have a feeling that still, I don't know any characters, at least the new ones.

I'm pretty sure that Oliver didn't kill himself, as there was no sign of struggling so I think he was killed by someone he knew.

"I am sorry about technical problems..." Thank you, dear Carolyn. I hope will take my laptop back this week! Yes, It is a good thing to keep reading new books, we can always continue our conversation, I think.
Now I am more than 10 books behind my schedule, I hope could compensate with shorter books. :)

Shirin, are you enjoying this story better than "Except The Dying" and "Under The Dragon's Tail"? Is your only criticism a lack of depth, clarity, and consistency among characters? How about the plot?

Kerri & I discussed that we gave a lower grade at the end because we considered the motive for criminal actions weak. However, reading this story was a pleasant change because there was no danger and an absence of clean baths, clothes, food, and homes. We wonder why an officer lost his life and there is interest in him and his family and of course, it is personal to the team at police station 4. Otherwise, it is not upsetting or scary, until we see how Peg and formerly one of the Eakin Sons, were treated.

It sounds like you agree that while we expand a look at Will's personal life, scenes of too many external characters interrupt it. Kerri & I believe that their predicaments and actions should be exposed through Will and Peg; no more than two lead perspectives.

At home she was not crazy. I would lock my door too if I sensed or discovered that the husband or a Son had evil plans about me. I hope you understood that Peg went to a few family members for help, against Mr. Eakin and the half-Brother, Jed. They made up a lie that she attempted to have sex with them. Peg kept away from them until she decided how to get help. She got sent to a mental institution. There, she acted calm (until Will finally arrived to interview her, maddeningly). She knew the best way to get out of a hospital is to show yourself as much as possible as being well.

This is my criticism: she was not trapped at home and could go to police, a neighbour, phoned for help, or moved out.

I hope you read and share the rest of our conversation, that Kerri & I also criticized the German and Asian immigrants for not speaking up about every detail they were aware of, to assist police. They were afraid of racial prejudice around police, I can understand but they gave no thought to helping the victim and the safety of people in the future.

Another criticism of ours you might have read, is that most of the tertiary characters were extraneous. They only returned once or twice and had no involvement with Oliver.

We enjoy a lot of subjects outside of the mystery ww hope you participate in, such as medical and dental advancement and seeing old-fashioned supplies, tools, merchandise, and buildings in museums. We shared Will's relief of seeing and paying for dental care. They are also expensive treatments for cats but it is a relief when our babies are pain free, blood results reassure us that there are no other problems, and our babies use their mouths properly and easily again.

Please keep putting here or on your profile, where you are lately. Keep adding your thoughts every chapter or so. There is a lot to talk about and we always have fun, going off on other tangents outside of our books too, because we are friends! :)

I have no comment about calling yourself behind schedule. My reading this year is so much smaller, I have not started the challenge badge yet. I have often set a smaller number of books than I can finish, so that the statistics do not estimate I am behind and have me feeling rushed. Near the end of the year after I see how I am doing, I raise the quantity of books I see I will finish.

I'm currently reading chapter 32...

Still, I have no idea who could want to kill Oliver, maybe something to do with Jarius! As his mother couldn't use her son's insurance, maybe Jarius somehow fraud their money.

I like that we have more time with Will in this book. His confusion about Enid and religion is a little too much. I like to know more about his sister, even his past. He looked quite sorrowful about his father's actions and his mother's death, which seems not very accidental.

"it was nice to see William trying something new" He looks to enjoy himself.:)
I don't know about drinking habits in many countries but Carolyn, I think it's the East tradition to drink too much tea and coffee, green tea, black tea, different type of herbal tea, Turkish coffee, black and Arabica coffee. We may do not drink juice for a whole week but still, have a boiling kettle all day! Of course, we wouldn't forget to drink water. This was nice to know about too much juice you said. :)

For now "Except The Dying" is my favorite book. I like Will's personal life now but I think the twist and mystery are not bold!
Peg is not a very clear character to me, I agree with you Carolyn, she could go to the police or neighbors for help.
Overall I think it depends on the ending, this could be better than "Under the Dragon's Tail".

Shirin, I am happy you posted! I hope you soon read previous posts and add even more of your observations to the colourful, lovely conversations there; including things not exactly about this book. What you are saying about coffee and tea is a great start and I am glad to have your reactions so far about this novel.

I enjoy tea but drink coffee daily and have wanted to try Turkish coffee. I have not heard of Arabica coffee. Ron & I have many herbal teas but only get it once in a while. For us, boiling water to make it takes more of an extra effort than pouring juice or warming up a coffee. We use the whole pot over two days, microwaving it after it is cold. We aren't picky and are against waste anyway. If someone comes over and prefers a fresh pot, we will save the old stuff in a pitcher to finish ourselves later.

I do think the vitamins and minerals of juice is extremely important and should be drunk every day, unless you are eating the actual fresh berries and fruits daily. Grains & proteins are of secondary importance in the food groups. Protein is last and of course, need never come from formerly live animals. As long as there are no animal products, I **love** trying food from anywhere in the world. An old friend I used to know, whose children are Iranian, used to make delicious basmati rice.

Ron & I cook with chickpeas, lentils, pastas, refriend beans, garden grown squashes in stirfries or soups, tacos and homemade pizza toppings using vegetarian meat from the store (veggie ground beef and veggie pepperonni). My favourite food cultures are Italian, Mexican, and Indian. In Canada, whose people are from everywhere, we mix good types all up. We will be eating well today with a nice medely of these dishes.

Today, August, 4, is mine & Ron's 22nd anniversary! We wish dearly that our precious McCartney could be here on Earth with us and by now, he would be 22 years-old too. You know my friends, that we have earned joy and celebration of our family being together this year! Love, Carolyn.

Here is my review as we await follow-up to our numerous conversations here. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I just read your review, Carolyn, and enjoyed it a great deal. I hope to catch up on my own the day after tomorrow, and I certainly had many similar thoughts.

Something I had meant to add much earlier in our conversation here, but forgot about, was a part of the book that really jumped out at me, when William visits the library, a place that is apparently considered a 'man's domain' - that made me chuckle slightly, mostly because I knew all three of us reading this novel were women, but also out of relief that that aspect of life has opened up. It did make me wish that the librarian, Miss Morse, might feature more often in some way - it would be interesting to learn how she became a librarian, what the challenges of the time period might have been for what is, today, a standard career. I did also wonder if she was a potential love interest for William, but it seems probably not.

I am looking forward to a fresh setting for the next, especially because, depending on the time line, being away from his housemate may prove the point of his romantic interest being due to proximity - even more so than her moving out.

Plus of course, returning home can bring out different aspects to a person's personality. I'm also interested in the idea of having to investigate something that involves a family member - surely the stakes are different, and rational thinking might be more challenging.

It is lovely that your Mother kept in contact with special teachers, and neat to have that knowledge about the nuns too.
I didn't know the original "Hardy Boys" author is Canadian. I'm not sure if I have read any of those books, but since you say they have more adventure than "Nancy Drew" I will see if I can find any in a charity shop and give them a read.

I didn't think to read "The Stuttering Parrot" before I sent it, but I'll be sure to read any others if I find them, before passing them along!

Are cassette players something you can still purchase new, or do you have to find decent second hand ones?

I find the ghostwriting behind the Virginia Andrews books something that I wish we were able to know how she felt about it - I sometimes think it is mote respectful to let the stories die with the creator, but perhaps she would disagree? I can see why a ghostwriter would accept the job, especially if they enjoy it, but I wonder whether Virginia herself would have reused the same ideas herself for decades, or might have perhaps branched out.

I am interested in reading that biography recently published, though as it is written by the ghostwriter I wonder how balanced it will be - but the unpublished manuscript and information from relatives would be fascinating.

Since you are not into the "Sweet Valley High" books I won't detail them too much, but I did gather all the ones I have so far into a plastic tub so I can start reading/rereading, which I am looking forward to! I had to got through almost all my books this past week because I discovered there was mould growing out of the wall socket in my room. I didn't even know that could be an issue, but I had to haul all my books out so we could check the walls for mould (they were OK luckily) clean everything while they were out, wait for the electrician to come and replace the socket, then put everything back in. It took me all week, thank goodness I had audio books to listen to! They good thing was I noticed it before the socket had reached a point of being unsafe to use, and while I was sorting everything I found quite a few books to donate to Hospice, all the ones I will never reread or have no attachment too - - mainly sporting biographies it turns out! Also some extras from when I have bought new copies in better condition. Even though I like to keep as many books as possible, I don't want to waste space on a book I won't ever use. I had a copy of Bill Clinton's Autobiography, which I have no interest in reading, though I'm sure someone else will enjoy it!

You have me grinning for multudinous reasons and I am sharing the smiles in return with you, dear Kerri! I will start from the bottom, what I see on my screen atop this conversation box. You know I have not tried an audio novel. The closest was David Bowie's narration of the short "Peter And The Wolf". I needed something as triumphant as an orchestra, the day we laid Marigold to rest last June.

Did I tell you I have had two audio books to try for years? One, I asked for or ordered with a gift card: William Shatner's autobiographer narrated by himself. That will be fun. Later, I found at a mall book sale, Bill Clinton's autobiographer. He too has a voice and personality that will be fun. The world generally has "had the biscuit" (as my Mom would put it, meaning "had enough") with USA politics, Canadians like Bill, Hilary, & Chelsea. Their Daughter writes multicultural and feminist storybooks for children and they seem like colourful people who used to protest and stuff.

Too bad a book we have in common is one you are ousting, which is why I laughed. We have plenty others and you might find the cover I want of "Mystery Of The Stuttering Parrot", to read that awesome puzzle for yourself. I was also going to say that as much as donating books is generous and something I did a lot of, could you advertize a sale at your home? You often speak of raising money for vet care, postage, and things you want to do. I set aside unneeded books to sell and will clean up our library soon, so it looks well kempt to make good impressions for browsers and buyers. I don't want to sell by mail and the distance and price from our nearest two post offices are unideal. We need a place for book lovers to discover here. Maybe you will find buyers too.

I am glad your electrical socket is safe and clean, as is your room and belongings. Plastic tubs are great storage. I will tighten the ones I alphabetized last year so that the few carrying on in cradboard boxes will fit the plastic sorted ones. When we are making sales and reducing what is out, I am willing to sell others. Do your books fit in one room? I remember those days, hehe.

I did not know about Virginia's autobiography and would be interested. The ghostwriter might be the right person to have penned it. We prefer Virginia as the authoress of her stories but he or she ought to know her and her work better than most. Mom had the impression from whatever newspaper or magazine article her information came, that she had unpublished and unfinished manuscrifts that the Andrews family attended to, possibly with her instructions. Mom & I pictured degrees of work starting with manuscripts entirely created by her, paring down to rough drafts and I guess by now, newly invented stories. I am happy to hear how much you enjoy "Sweet Valley High".

I will eventually enjoy testing that our cassettes work and that their magnet tape did not fade. I heard from two people years ago to whom I gave tapes that they worked. What I want when I clean up the crowding since my parents moved, is a unit you can buy new: with a cassette deck, record player, CD player, presumably the radio, and a USB port for transferring the music digitally.

Nothing beats "Alfred Hitchcock & The Three Investigators" for intelligent, colourful, original youth mysteries. However, I am going to decide if I prefer the "Hardy Boys" to "Nancy Drew" after reading several more apiece. Nancy sees more action than an 18 year-old child should but our generation's edits have her focused on good manners. Mom confirmed the original versions have her as more of a tomboy, which is odd. Wouldn't it be the reverse the the olden days? Then again, the original ghostwriter, Mildred A. Wirt flew a plane and was a rough & tumble feminist herself. I guess Harriet Stratemeyer toned that down while taking out socially inappropriate parts, after letters of complaint in the 1950s. I dislike that Laura Hardy has hardly a role in those novels so far but the worst is that Nancy's novels need to stop describing Bess as curvy, wanting to eat, and fearful; as if they were weaknesses.

I am going to ponder your intriguing discussion subject but at this moment, I don't recall a librarian in "Poor Tom Is Cold". It is a puzzling point that poses a question again, poor Maureen. Did she overlook a detail, or could women be librarians in a male domain? Please tell me where in the novel this was, why William was there. I will see if it jogs into place meanwhile. I smiled at your apt observation: we three international women reading a scene about a book institution meant for men. That is a good one!

The library part is from chapter 24 - if I recall correctly, William had been told that Oliver had met with someone in the library (his real love interest, not the decoy, I think) and William wanted the librarian, Miss Morse, to tell him if she had seen them there.

I think William mentions that the female librarian is unusual, but not unheard of. I'm not sure what your experience with libraries is, I'm sure it varies, but I have mainly encountered female librarians when I visit, and the people at the library a mix of everyone, all ages etc, so much less a 'man's domain'!

I can imagine the William Shatner Autobiography would be a fun listen, and I think Bill Clinton would have a pleasant voice too! I have seen a few reviews for the books his daughter writes and they look interesting - I think there is a new TV show as well, based around the same idea.

Who knows, perhaps you will enjoy the Bill Clinton book enough that I will end up wanting to read it myself!

I have considered selling unwanted books, and may do so next time I have a clear out. This time I just wanted the space, because I had to had to get rid of one my small book shelves since it kept getting mouldy, something it picked up in our old house. Luckily it's the only one that has that persistent problem. Anyway, with less space I thought donating was the easiest. But if I have others that I no longer want I might list them on Trade Me - the biggest thing is of course that I so tend to want to keep most of my books!

So far my books mostly fit in one room, though I do have some small shelves in the entrance way area, and a container of the Sweet Valleys is a cupboard. Bins are great though - I would love more shelf space one day, but in the meantime I am happy with the plastic tubs.

It's interesting that you mentioned the original version of Nancy vs the updated one. It seems odd that they toned down the tomboy aspect - the original ghostwriter sounds like a neat woman! I agree that none of what you mention here about Bess sound like weaknesses - how disappointing that they were portrayed that way.

It is very nice to continue writing in our group. You & I talked about your most recent additions in e-mail. Your feedback was a relief from feeling like I was the only one laying out conversations and waiting a long time for the ball to be picked up. Understandably, you & Shirin had to be away a lot since September. It is my busiest garden season anyway, besides planning & planting them.

So, thanks to your review today, I have an idea of a thread to pick up! I always welcome the rest of you to do the same. Even if we prefer other books, lets give each one some discussion, eh?

Did you both like this one better than the previous novel? I hated that one, full of gross people and cruel situations, with the exception of a Mother & child reuniting and William brightening our days in his pages. "Poor Tom Is Cold" is a little boring, I agree. Despite losing an unknown officer from William's station 4 team (the cast is very close on TV) , we had little investment in anything, hence no éclat, right? However, I liked a mystery without urgency, until a woman's family wanted to commit an innocent, healthy person.

Had the mystery and conclusion been engrossing instead of over the top and stupid, I would have enjoyed this novel, even though I was not invested in any visiting character. However, it is far less disgusting to read about than "Under The Dragon's Tail". Does poverty mean no one takes time to bathe! Even when Mom reunited with her 8 year-old baby, I cringed at the cleaning he would need. The preachy guy with weird sores flapping on his face.... just disgusting. It is easy to prefer this novel. What do you think, Shirin?

The conversation that your gratifying review inspires, Kerri, is about that ending. I don't think you meant that the end lacked drama because it was bonkers with it. You must have referred to the lack of excitement in the story and characters, is that right? Less really would have been more poignant and engaging. Don't freak out at the hospital during a chance to use a phone, or have William delivered to you. Then aybe a hospital escape wouldn't be over the top. However, had the woman not squandered her pssibilities it would be unnecessary; thanks to a phone, messenger, or William.

More over the top was everyone fighting in the barn until all villains and accomplices killed each other. Seriously stupid. For what: a man's money, who was dying soon and would have left it to some member of the family regardless? A flat motive tanks a mystery for me, how about the two of you? Losing her head in the hospital, running away, dying off in the barn.... this is heavy-handed content generating that I call "fake action" or "crash boom bang"; like the rewritten "Hardy Boys" / "Nancy Drew" stories.

Also, Kerri remarked astutely in her review that the woman played it cool long enough at the house and in her transfer to a hospital. Who would blow it when William was in front of her? I agree that it was utterly unbelievable.

Also, did we all sigh that the murder resulted from a woman calling the young policeman from a window? Talk about blowing your cover and bringing attention to yourself. That is as bad as old fashioned books in which a villian leaves notes or vandalism, shouting "Stay away".

Okay, I am voicing comments enough that I obviously found this novel as weak as you two do. If only the previous novel had not been so visually disgusting. That is all from me and I look forward to your new input or replies.

Revisting this book conversation, I am happily reminded that Shirin updated us until chapter #32. I apologize, Shirin, for getting an idea in my head that you had not given feedback yet. I remember now, it is only your final opinion we await.

It really is too bad the end fell into stupid tropes, multiple ones. Because it was not as gross, abusive, mean as "Under The Dragon's Tail", I was liking "Poor Tom Is Cold" better. Even though I avoid and am disturbed by the subject of assault, I think "Except The Dying" was much better too. Minus the annoying Great-Grandkid, "Shipwreck" is my second favourite.

Another reason I was liking "Poor Tom Is Cold" at least half of the way, I think I wrote above last year, is that there was no killer threatening danger to anyone. You just needed to solve who killed their station #4 policeman. He had a suspicious Mom and the wrong woman posing as his fiancé. I dislike stressful emotions and environments. I remember very much liking the break, to just enjoy reading at an easy, safe pace.