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Three Detective Anecdotes
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Short Reads, led by our members > Detective Stories by Dickens - 2nd and 3rd Summer Reads 2022 (hosted by Sara and Lori)

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message 1: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jul 10, 2022 02:22PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
THREE DETECTIVE ANECDOTES and ON DUTY WITH INSPECTOR FIELD:



Inspector Charles Field, from an engraving in 1855

Here is the thread for two of our summer short reads. First we will discuss Three Detective Anecdotes, which will be led by Sara. Reading is between 1st and 10th July, and begins in the next post.

Then we move on to On Duty with Inspector Field, which will be led by Lori. Reading of this one is between 11th and 24th July. LINK HERE)

(Please also see our short story read led by Judy of the detective mystery story Hunted Down, LINK HERE)


message 2: by Sara (last edited Jul 01, 2022 04:41AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments An Introduction to Detective Fiction

I doubt the world will ever agree on what the first detective novel was. In researching for this presentation, I came up with over a dozen books designated that way, and much depends on whether you count short fiction or how you define “detective fiction” at all. What we can all agree on, I believe, is that Edgar Allan Poe’s The Murders in the Rue Morgue - a C. Auguste Dupin Short Story published in 1841 was the first example of what we recognize in our modern day detective genre, the astute and brilliant detective who puts together the seemingly unsolvable pieces of the puzzle and makes them whole. Auguste Dupin reappeared in 1842 in The Mystery of Marie Rogêt - a C. Auguste Dupin Short Story and in 1844 in The Purloined Letter, and the idea of a serial detective was born. Interestingly, the story is told by the detective’s roommate, a convention which later gave us the inimitable Dr. Watson.

Influenced to some extent by Edgar Allan Poe, but perhaps to a larger extent by developments in the local police force, Charles Dickens introduced his first detective in the tenacious Mr. Bucket in Bleak House (1853), a full ten years later. He apparently enjoyed his dip into this genre, because he continued to write detective fiction through to his last, unfinished novel, The Mystery of Edwin Drood. While Bucket is not the main character in Bleak House and no one would term Bleak House strictly a detective fiction, he is essential to the progress of the novel and many of the conventions we expect in detective fiction are present and perhaps invented with him.

Certainly, this foray into detective fiction was picked up by Dickens’ friend and associate, Wilkie Collins, who went on to write two of the best early mystery novels in existence, The Woman in White and The Moonstone. The Moonstone (1868) contains examples of devices that became mainstays of the genre, including red herrings, false alibis and climactic scenes, and he is often given credit for inventing them, but having just read Bleak House, I think it can be safely said that Dickens had already used all three of those devices and used them deftly. It hardly matters if Dickens was the first, as much as that he breathed something different into the genre and helped to determine its later path, and that his influence can be seen very early on among his close associates.

The genre of detective fiction caught on rather quickly, spread and developed. The Notting Hill Mystery by Charles Felix appeared as an 8-part serial in 1862.
The Revelations of a Lady Detective by William Stephens Hayward was published in either 1861 or 1864, and is the first appearance of a woman detective.

The first American detective novel (Poe’s were short stories), The Dead LetterThe Dead Letter ,was published in 1866, written by Metta Victoria Fuller Victor under the pen name of Seeley Regester More. Mary Elizabeth Braddon, best known for the novel Lady Audley's Secret, which was published in 1862, wrote a number of sensational crime/detective novels.

All of these appeared before the introduction of Arthur Conan Doyle’s A Study in Scarlet With Annotation in 1887. Sherlock Holmes was to become the world's best known detective, and Doyle introduced the idea of the sleuth being both eccentric and scientific and greatly increased the use of forensic observation to solve the crime. But, as we see with our first detective anecdote, The Pair of Gloves, the idea of following the forensic clues was already present in Charles Dickens’ writings.

Arthur Conan Doyle profoundly changed the way detective stories were written and really brings us to the modern era of detective fiction, so that when we think of early sleuths our thoughts turn automatically to Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie's Hercule Perriot. However, these are perfections of a genre handed down by authors such as Charles Dickens, and it is therefore important to read Charles Dickens’ detective fiction with this in mind–he is inventing, not perfecting. What might be even more important is a realization that the actual police detective, working the streets of the city, had barely existed by the mid 1800s.

The Metropolitan Police was formed by Robert Peel with the implementation of the Metropolitan Police Act, passed by Parliament in 1829. Charles Dickens was much in favor of this new element of justice, and published papers, particularly in Household Words, in favor of such a force.

“Dickens insisted that the detective was a crucial component of the justice system—a figure to be celebrated, one to take centre stage in the crime story—reflecting his staunch support “of the London Metropolitan Police” (Simpson 140). Indeed, while Dickens is known principally for exposing wretched poverty, he was also interested in a range of legal issues as can be evinced from his writings for Household Words.

Charles Dickens’s pro-police pieces, included a blatantly promotional, two-part work A Detective Police Party (1850). The narrative begins with open criticism of the Bow Street Runners contrasting these “men of very indifferent character” to the Detective Force which is “so well chosen and trained, proceeds so systematically and quietly, does its business in such a workman-like manner, and is always so calmly and steadily engaged in the service of the public” (“Police Party, Part I” 409).” [ (Journal Media Culture.Org]


***More about Bow Street Runners in the next post.***

Already familiar with the London streets at night, having walked there extensively, Charles Dickens was also well known to the London police force. The division tasked with pursuing crime detection only came into existence in 1842, and detectives, as such, came into existence with it. Charles Dickens was present for the birth pains of this new way of approaching crime and punishment, and he arranged ride-alongs with this force, which absolutely influenced his writing. Among the real-life detectives he encountered was Charles Frederick Field, who showed up later in his work, and who is thought to have also had a marked influence upon the character of Mr. Bucket.

In 1851 Charles DickensDickens published On Duty with Inspector Field, which is to be taken up later in the month by Lori, and so I will not expound on Field or this writing here other than to say Charles Dickens’ exposure to the real detective squad brings an authenticity to his detectives and their procedures that might otherwise have been missing.


message 3: by Sara (last edited Jul 01, 2022 04:45AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments The article below is a detailed and fascinating account of the Bow Street Runners.

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK...

They were the first professional police force in London and replaced a system of independent policing that was fraught with corruption. In fact, before the “runners” the men policing the street were very much involved in the crimes being committed. It was a bit like putting the pimps in charge of eradicating prostitution.

The original Bow Street Runners force was made up of just six men, which included its two founders, Henry and John Fielding.

Henry Fielding, along with his half-brother John who was also a magistrate, founded the Bow Street Runners, a paid police force with the intention of preventing and fighting crime. Henry was known for his motto of ‘quick notice and sudden pursuit’. He was keen to use the general public to help, somewhat similarly as before, by using adverts and pamphlets asking for assistance.

Having a force that was paid by the government and connected therefore to its authority, established by men truly interested in controlling crime rather than profiting from it, and having men selected by a magistrate rather than being volunteers of unknown background, was a step forward in policing. What followed in Peel’s Metropolitan Police Act revolutionized it.

The Bow Street Runners gave way to the more sophisticated and skilled Scotland Yard that Charles Dickens had so much praise for, and suffered some severe criticism by this time, but deserve the credit for laying a foundation for the modern policing that followed.


message 4: by Sara (last edited Jul 01, 2022 04:49AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments With all of this in mind, we will now read three short essays entitled Three Detective Anecdotes and consisting of The Pair of Gloves, The Artful Touch and The Sofa. Charles Dickens, himself, referred to these pieces as “conversation starters”. Clearly, Charles Dickens’ intent with these tales is to establish his own respect and support of the newly established Criminal Investigation Department of Scotland Yard. His writings are credited with helping to secure a more favorable public opinion of the police, and altering the overall public concept of the police from one of general suspicion to one of helpfulness and heroism.

I will post a summary and some pertinent information regarding the first story, A Pair of Gloves, tomorrow, with discussion of it beginning thereafter. Please feel free to discuss detective fiction in general today.


READING SCHEDULE

July 2-3 The Pair of Gloves

July 4 Free Day - Happy Birthday USA

July 5-6 The Artful Touch

July 7 Free Day

July 8-9 The Sofa

July 10 Summing Up


Connie  G (connie_g) | 1029 comments Thanks for the excellent overview of early detective fiction, and the good article about the Bow Street Runners, Sara.


Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments So happy you enjoyed it, Connie. One topic always seems to springboard into another. I found the Bow Street Runners fascinating.


message 7: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jul 01, 2022 10:04AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
Your post was a really good read, thanks Sara :)

May I just add that it is detectives in fiction in the English language where we generally agree that Edgar Allan Poe's C. Auguste Dupin was the first. A German GR friend often points out that E.T.A. Hoffmann's detective story in German preceded him and also Voltaire in French, but these were single short stories.

I mentioned this during our read of Bleak House ... thank you so much for tying that in too. You have some very interesting thoughts, and a great plan :)

Oh, and just in case anyone is wondering, yes the Henry Fielding who created the Bow Street Runners in London with his brother John is the satirical author: the same person as the Henry Fielding who wrote our group read last Autumn, The History of Tom Jones, a Foundling!


message 8: by Lori (last edited Jul 01, 2022 10:16AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Lori  Keeton | 1094 comments Fantastic info Sara! I had come across this in my research and was surprised by Henry Fielding’s foray into forming the Bow Street Runners.

Also it’s been too long since reading Poe, so this story will go on my TBR. I don’t typically read many detective/mysteries. I did enjoy Thd Woman in White snd hood to read The Moonstone soon.


Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Thank you, Jean. Yes, I should have said ENGLISH. Had I ought to go back and revise it? Also, sorry for not pointing out that Henry Fielding was the writer. I always find there is so much information and in condensing it you always lose something vital.

Lori Edgar Allan Poe's stories are worthwhile if only for the historical value, but I found them interesting as stories, as well. I am also not a detective/mystery reader, but occasionally one will capture my interest and I do tend to read the older ones. Love Wilkie Collins and Mary Elizabeth Braddon.


message 10: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
No - it's fine Sara - it's great information :) Hope you didn't mind me adding a bit.


message 11: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Absolutely not. I hope anyone who has additional information will feel free to add it to what I have offered. I love the learning curve at this group--and 90% of that is you!

I did try not to step on the coming read from Lori. It would be very easy to stray into areas she is planning to cover, and I don't want to do that.


message 12: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
Yes, that's tricky, but I'm sure you make a good team :) (And thank you!)


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

This is great information, Sara! I'm a huge mystery/detective fiction fan, and a huge Dickens fan, so the two combined is hog heaven for me!

I love the point you made that Dickens was inventing this genre not perfecting it. I also very much enjoyed the Bow Street Runners article. I had no idea Henry Fielding started that.

Thank you for the great background history - I'm looking forward to these three stories!


Lori  Keeton | 1094 comments Sara, no toes are being harmed with your informative posts. 🤗We’re bound to run across some of the same info and it’s ok with me if we have a little repetition. I am still making plans but these two reads back to back will be great together.


message 15: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments The Pair of Gloves

The first anecdote concerns the murder of a young woman, Eliza Grimwood, aka The Countess. The anecdote is related by Inspector Wield of the Detective Police. Under the pillow of the bed in the room in which the woman has had her throat slit, is found a pair of dirty gentlemen’s gloves with the letters Tr and a cross inside the lining. Being the only apparent anomaly in the room, the gloves become the predominant clue in the case.

Smelling the gloves, the detective discerns that they have been previously cleaned, and he sets out to find the cleaner. If he can determine who cleaned the gloves, he can find out who owned them and perhaps how they had come to be at the scene of this crime. After talking to all the known cleaners in the area, the detective has come up empty, and on Saturday, the detective decides to take a break and attend a “shilling’s worth of entertainment at the Lyceum Theatre”. He sits next to a stranger, starts up a conversation, and retires with the man to have a drink at a local pub. Quite coincidentally, this man turns out to be a glove-cleaner. The detective snatches the gloves from his pocket and inquires if the man can identify the cleaner he is seeking. He gives the man a fictitious story about a wager he has laid with a friend in which he is tasked with finding out who owns the gloves. Amazingly, the man states that the cleaner of the gloves is his own father.

The detective and the young man proceed to the father’s house, where Wield is told that the gloves belong to a Mr. Tinkle, an upholsterer in Cheapside. The cleaner does not get the gloves directly from Tinkle, but through a Mr. Phibbs, whose haberdashery is opposite the upholsterer’s shop. Early Monday morning, Wield goes to the haberdashery, and Phibbs points out Mr. Tinkle across the way. Wield has Phibbs motion to Tinkle to call him over, and the young man in question immediately comes.

When asked if he has any acquaintance with a Grimwood, Tinkle denies it, saying he had read about the murder in the papers but never, ever met the woman. The young man is in “a dreadful state” when told his gloves were found at the scene of the murder. Wield assures him that he does not suspect him of the murder, but that he must non-the-less take him in to appear before the Magistrate.

A private examination before the Magistrate unveils that Tinkle was acquainted with a cousin of Eliza Grimwood and had left the gloves at the cousin’s home several days before the murder. Eliza then visited the home and finding the gloves, took them for “my girl to clean the stoves with.”

Wield concludes that the girl did clean the stoves with the gloves, left them lying on the mantle, and that Eliza Grimwood, when tidying, had thrust them out of sight under the pillow. The story concludes.


message 16: by Sara (last edited Jul 02, 2022 04:26AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments SOME THOUGHTS

The majority of the story takes place as Detective Wield attempts to identify the owner of the gloves. It becomes a sort of comedy of errors as to who found the gloves where and did what with them, and the story of the traveling gloves unravels as the detective searches out the owner. The main function of this story is not so much to find the murderer as it is to clear the man who owns the gloves (circumstantial evidence) from having participated in the murder. It becomes, in effect, a way of disposing of a “red herring.”

ABOUT THIS MURDER

The murder of Eliza Grimwood took place in 1838 and was a very famous and well-known unsolved case at the time. Eliza was a beautiful young prostitute living at No. 12 Wellington Terrace, Waterloo Road, and fell victim to a “ripper” long before the famous Jack haunted the East End.

By 1890, Eliza Grimwood’s ghost had become a common legend around Waterloo Road, and many people attested to having seen her, often making up the bed in the room where she was murdered.

Who Killed Eliza Grimwood
Who Killed Eliza Grimwood

On May 26, 1838, Eliza Grimwood went to the Strand Theatre, a well-known place of assignation among the better class of London harlots. She met there a well-dressed young foreigner, who spoke English with a French accent. He looked like a respectable gentleman’s servant, and he and Eliza were seen crossing Waterloo Bridge in a cab, laughing together.

The two arrived at No. 12 Wellington Terrace just after midnight and were let into the house by Eliza Grimwood’s servant, Mary Fisher. Mary stated that the man ducked into the parlor, hiding his face from view.

There were four other people in the house at the time of the murder: Eliza’s cousin and boyfriend, William Hubbard, a commercial traveler named Best, a second prostitute, Mary Glover and the servant Mary Fisher. It was Mr. Hubbard who discovered Eliza’s body the next morning, ripped across the throat and the abdomen.

description

Eliza Grimwood entering the cab with ‘the foreigner’, a fanciful drawing from Famous Crimes Past and Present.

Eliza was known to the inspector on the scene, Inspector Charles Frederick Field, who called her “the Countess” because of her looks and bearing. Inspector Field reportedly told his friend Charles Dickens, “When I saw the poor Countess, lying dead with her throat cut, on the floor of her bedroom, a variety of reflections calculated to make a man rather low in his spirits, came into my head.”, a quote that is used verbatim in our story.

The two suspects in the murder were the mysterious foreigner and Eliza’s cousin/boyfriend, William Hubbard. Although a purse full of god guineas was missing, Eliza’s jewelry and the eight florins, apparently left by the last client, were still in the room.

The cab man who had driven the pair to No. 12 Wellington Terrace was located but offered little helpful information other than a description of the foreign gentleman.

The only suspicious evidence against Hubbard was a bit of splashed blood on his trousers which could easily have been picked up when he found the body. All of his other clothes were found to be clear of any blood and no weapon was ever located. Hubbard was a “prostitute’s bully” (which equates essentially to a pimp) and was partially supported by Eliza’s earnings, which would have made Eliza’s death a liability to his income. It was doubted that Hubbard would have been able to commit the murder without leaving a trace or alerting the household.

However, when an anonymous letter was received from a John Walter Cavendish claiming to be Eliza’s client for the night of the murder, and saying Hubbard had bullied him and thrown him out of the house, Hubbard was arrested. On June 11th he was committed to Horsemonger-lane prison, but no evidence being forthcoming before the magistrate he was discharged. He refused to return to his home at the scene of the murder, and afterwards went to America.
In what seems a very bizarre occurrence, Eliza’s brothers advertised an auction to sell Eliza’s possessions while Hubbard was being held in jail. There was a rush of people at the opening of the auction and fierce bidding for the blood-stained bed. Her furniture sold for £64, her watch and jewelry for £80. Buyers had to leave through the back, so that an angry mob outside, waving auction catalogues, could be let in to see the murder room. One brother grabbed the bloodstained carpet, proposing to cut it up into smaller fragments to sell it to the mob outside.

In 1845 a private soldier named George Hill confessed to the murder to get away from the military, but nothing came of that confession and Inspector Field concluded that the foreigner almost certainly did it.

description
Inspector Charles Frederick Field, from the Illustrated London News of 1855

Inspector Field marvelled at the culprit’s ability to avoid detection, and speculated that he had most likely committed murder before.
While awaiting execution in Newgate for the murder of his master Lord William Russell in 1840, a Swiss valet, François Benjamin Courvoisier, expressed a desire to confess to the murder of Eliza Grimwood in 1838 and barmaid Eliza Davie in 1837. He was persuaded by an uncle to keep quiet and the confession was never finalized. Some circumstances link Courvoisier to the unsolved murder of clockmaker Robert Westwood in 1839, and his former employer testified the Swiss valet had arrived home late one night, panting and bedraggled, so there was speculation he had committed a murder on that occasion.

Courvoisier’s height, build, features and clothing fit the descriptions of the foreigner given by witnesses and he also fit the description of the French boyfriend of Eliza Davies. He could well have been an opportunistic serial killer, murdering men for profit and women for sexual sadism.

A FINAL POINT OF INTEREST

This murder of Eliza Grimwood is thought to be the model for the character of Nancy in Oliver Twist


Lori  Keeton | 1094 comments The Victorians had the most interesting jobs didn’t they? Glove cleaners is quite specific. I guess regular dry cleaners only cleaned larger items and I imagine it took a very long time (not the hours it takes nowadays) to process dirty garments.

It’s interesting that Dickens focused on eliminating the man with the gloves. The real story didn’t mention the gloves but I imagine he created this concept as his way of trying to inform the public of one method the detectives used in their investigations since the public was suspicious of policing.


message 18: by Sara (last edited Jul 02, 2022 07:40AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments I believe the gloves were an actual part of the investigation, but they led to only clearing someone, so they did not make the historic or newspaper accounts. But, for Dickens, this would have been an important element since it showed the detectives ability to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

I was also surprised that there was a job for just cleaning gloves. However, gloves were an everyday, constantly worn item and generally white as well. I imagine they needed a lot of cleaning.

The Victorian Web does have an interesting article on the significance of gloves to Victorian society:
https://victorianweb.org/art/costume/...


Kathleen | 489 comments Wonderful background Sara, and very helpful to me as I'm not much of a mystery or detective fiction reader.

And so helpful, reading this so many years later, to know the details of the Grimwood murder.

What strikes me about Dickens' approach is that it kind of goes along with his support for the unfortunate. Things are not always what people assume, things aren't always what they seem, and we need a detective willing to find out the truth so the wrong people aren't punished. I can see how that awareness would be necessary to change public opinion about the police from suspicion to helpfulness, as you say.


message 20: by Carolien (new)

Carolien (carolien_s) | 10 comments Thank you for the tons of useful background information, Sara!

I've just listened to The Moonstone and it will be interesting to see how these short pieces are done. The Gloves really reminds me of the fact that early police detective work was mostly a lot of foot slogging to follow up leads. None of the technology we take for granted was available.


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

Wow when I read "Pair of Gloves" yesterday, I had no idea it was based on an actual case.

I very much like Dickens' choice to focus on the gloves - I love reading about how Wield tracked down all the glove cleaners, then found the right one which had been hired out. That was an interesting twist. I also think it's significant that Dickens focused on the gloves as negative evidence (I don't know if that's a proper term) - I expect in the past, with corrupt law officers, the owner of the gloves would've probably been convicted of the murder based on the circumstantial evidence. It makes sense Dickens would want to highlight that point to build public confidence in the new detective branch.

How grim to sell poor Eliza's things, even cutting up the blood stained rug. Different times, I guess, but the whole situation is very sad. Dickens using poor Eliza as a basis for Nancy is interesting - I'd not come across this tidbit before.

This is great, Sara - I love the illustrations about the murder, and the information on gloves. Can you imagine coating your hands with horseradish and covering them with gloves while you slept at night?! The glove language reminds me of fan language, all the meanings that were attached to things ladies did with their fans. Fascinating stuff! Like Lori, I'd not thought of glove cleaners as a specific job, but reading about how important gloves were at the time, it makes sense.

I wonder if Dickens changed Field's name to Wield as symbolism (he wields the sword of justice) or because it's the only other letter that makes a word out of -ield.


message 22: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Kathleen - It does go along with Dickens concern for the poor and the everyman.

Carolien - I found the birth of forensics (which we take so for granted) to be very interesting. I'm not sure we give much thought to how little was evidence and how much was hearsay in the system of the past.

Cozy - The actual murder was so interesting to me. The prostitutes were so well known to the police that they had nicknames for them. I wondered why Dickens made the name change at all, since he used Field's actual name in his later writing.

I would never have thought about gloves having the kind of importance and complicated significance that they did. Every time we read a Dickens, I find out things about Victorian life that surprise me. Love the comparison to the fans.

I know she was a prostitute, but these were her brothers that were moving so quickly to profit off of her death. That kind of turned my stomach. I'm sure poverty makes you do things that seem reprehensible to those who live comfortable lives, but there seemed to be no mourning for this girl at all.


Lori  Keeton | 1094 comments There is another essay called The Detective Police written by Dickens in 1850 which I haven’t read completely but understand it is an account of a group of detectives and sergeants meeting with Dickens and his staff in the Household Words offices at Wellington St, The Strand. Apparently, they spent the evening chatting and smoking cigars. Dickens gave them fictitious names that were rather transparent. So, Wield is Field, Witchem is Whicher, etc.

Here is how Wield is described in this story:

Inspector Wield is a middle-aged man of a portly presence, with a large, moist, knowing eye, a husky voice, and a habit of emphasising his conversation by the aid of a corpulent fore-finger, which is constantly in juxtaposition with his eyes or nose.

I couldn’t help noticing the fore-finger reference here which took me back to Bucket’s fat finger in Bleak House.


message 24: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments That move alone would alert everyone who knew Field to the fact that Bucket is based on him. I love the way Dickens borrowed from life--such powers of observation.


Connie  G (connie_g) | 1029 comments Dickens attended the execution of Courvoisier along with 30,000 others. I didn't realize he was such a serial killer.

It was interesting that the story showed the steps that a detective had to go through in an investigation, even though the case was not resolved. Wield (or Field) seems like he honestly is trying to get the actual killer, instead of framing someone who owned the gloves. Dickens must have had a lot of respect for him.


message 26: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments I think that would have been a major difference for Dickens between the old system and the new one--the new one would have been more interested in gathering evidence and evaluating it, rather than just having someone punished and move on.

I had read the account of Dickens attending the execution, Connie, but did not connect that it was Courvoisier's execution he had attended.


message 27: by Carolien (new)

Carolien (carolien_s) | 10 comments The auction process of a dead persons belongings may have been a common thing in those times. In La Dame Aux Camelias: Camille: A Play in Five Acts, Marguerite's belongings are also auctioned after her death.

Thank you for the information on Field/Wield, Lori. I'm going to add The Detective Police to my list.


message 28: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 577 comments What a fascinating introduction, Sara! Thank you so much!

Bionic Jean, oh yes, I was wondering about Fielding! Thank you for clearing this up :)

Cozy_Pug, I agree, the inventing vs perfecting point seems very important.
By the way, I have not read all of Sherlock Holmes stories, but from what I've read so far, I've enjoyed Dupin more than Mr Holmes.


message 29: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 577 comments How interesting about Eliza Grimwood!
There's a book about Courvoisier: Murder by the Book: The Crime That Shocked Dickens's London, has anybody read it? (I have not yet read it, but I have it already).


message 30: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 577 comments Can somebody please explain to me why the detective did not find the right glove cleaner during his search? Were there, in the end, more glove cleaners in London than he thought?

Eliza's brothers selling her things... they remind me of the people who were selling dead Scrooge's clothes and bedclothes. So much of what seems grotesque in literature is quite real, isn't it?

Why do you think Wield was sure from the first that Mr. Trinkle wasn't the murderer?


message 31: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jul 03, 2022 03:56AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
Hi Plateresca - Welcome and it's so nice to see you joining right in :) It would be lovely if you could introduce yourself here LINK HERE, as I'm diverting this thread a bit ...

Great comments!

Auctions of a person belongings after they die is pretty standard even now, isn't it Carolien and Plateresca? Unless they are part of the estate and willed to someone, but even then they might organise an auction, if they have no interest in them - at least in England. Perhaps as you say it was more common earlier though. Lots of examples in literature 19th century Thomas Hardy, 20th century J.R.R. Tolkien in The Hobbit ...


Kathleen | 489 comments Plateresca wrote: "Can somebody please explain to me why the detective did not find the right glove cleaner during his search? Were there, in the end, more glove cleaners in London than he thought?

Eliza's brothers ..."


I was thinking of the last glove cleaner as someone who got work from others, like the haberdasher. And if he was like a jobber, maybe he wouldn't advertise.

And Jean, Estate Sales and Estate Auctions are still very common, at least in my area.


message 33: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Of course, selling a person's things after they are gone is done everyday. I think what seems shocking about the sale of Eliza's things is that 1) It took place so quickly after her murder and while the police investigation was still going on, 2) It turned into a mob of people trying to get a souvenir, and 3) the brother being willing (or even thinking to) sell the blood-stained carpet. That seems a little macabre. Imagine how much worse it might have been if the murder had already been connected to Couvoisier.

Welcome, Plateresca. We are not given any explanation for why the glove cleaner was not on the original list. The detective running into the son and starting up a conversation is a bit too coincidental, but I imagine it was a way to add drama and lengthen the tale. From a literary point of view, it would have been rather short and uninteresting if they had found the glove cleaner that easily, and from a detective point of view, it illustrated that they do not give up when they hit an obstacle but still pursue and find the truth.


message 34: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 577 comments I think auctioning the belongings of a person supposed dead is one thing, but ripping up their blood-stained carpet or stealing a shirt from their dead body is another.

Kathleen, this must be it, thank you for the explanation!

Sara, how much of the story, do you think, is factual, and how much is literary? As a literary device, this accidental finding of the glove cleaner seems a bit weak, but as an actual fact, it seems too fantastic.


Kathleen | 489 comments Plateresca wrote: "I think auctioning the belongings of a person supposed dead is one thing, but ripping up their blood-stained carpet or stealing a shirt from their dead body is another."

Ha! So true Plateresca. As well as Scrooge, I also thought of Zorba the Greek where there is a similar and even more extreme scene.


message 36: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Plateresca wrote: "how much of the story, do you think, is factual, and how much is literary? As a literary device, this accidental finding of the glove cleaner seems a bit weak, but as an actual fact, it seems too fantastic."

Since the gloves are not mentioned in any of the historical accounts, I'm sure this was just a tidbit of the investigation that Field shared with Dickens. This is Dickens and this is fiction, so I'm sure there was no attempt to stick strictly to the facts of the case, and this element was chosen to make a point, which it did nicely. Of course, anything I would say about the mix of real vs. literary would be absolute conjecture.


message 37: by Greg (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greg | 201 comments Thanks Sara for all the background; my goodness, the real murder was quite grisly! There's something poignant about the murder victim being known a bit ironically as "The Countess." And it's fascinating to think that there was a time when professional police investigation didn't even exist. I really appreciated your details about the Metropolitan Police Act and the Bow Street Runners.

As far as the story, I really enjoyed it!

I like that rather than focusing on the salacious aspects, he focuses on figuring out where the gloves came from. The very moment that the gloves appeared, it occurred to me how easy it might be to plant evidence in the days of early policing, and I was pleasantly surprised to find that the gloves were used to clear someone rather than to condemn them!

The other thing I enjoyed in the story were the little character details and the little kindnesses and considerations throughout.

I got a chuckle out of glove cleaner's concern that his father know about his visits to the plays in "The Pit." I liked also the haberdasher's concern for young Mr. Tinkle's father and even the inspector's kind manner in apprehending Mr. Tinkle:

"'I am very sorry,' says I. 'To tell you the truth; I don't think you are the murderer, but I must take you to Union Hall in a cab. However, I think it's a case of that sort, that, at present, at all events, the magistrate will hear it in private.'"

If I were suspected of a a crime and had to be taken in, I hope it would be by an inspector like this! :)


message 38: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Thank you, Greg, for pointing out how Dickens uses the details to humanize the story. It is all happening to "real" people. I'm with you on being arrested (heaven forbid!), but please let it be someone with a little compassion.


message 39: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8393 comments Mod
Didn't that quotation remind you of Inspector Bucket in Bleak House? It sounds just like what he would say!


message 40: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Yes, Jean, I thought of Bucket and George right away.


message 41: by [deleted user] (new)

About the auction - yes estate sales/auctions are very common. But as others up-thread said, it's poor Eliza's brothers selling squares of the blood stained rug that is so appalling. It seems utterly heartless and they didn't seem to be grieving her murder - it sounds like they wanted to profit from the sensationalism of her murder. And that is thoroughly repellent to me.

Lori thanks for the information about Dickens thinly disguising the detectives' names, that's helpful to know.

I thought of Bucket, too, with that forefinger! I think Dickens was always observing, always looking for little traits and characteristics that stood out - things he could work into his characters that made them memorable. So not only was Dickens physically active and busy, but his mind was always working, too.


Bridget | 1004 comments Thank you Sara for all this wonderful background information. It's really helped me come to understand this story more fully. I feel a little silly admitting this, but when I finished the story I thought, wait is that it? Is there more? You see, while reading, I assumed the gloves were going to lead us to who committed the murder - which I'm sure is my modern sensibilities getting in the way of my enjoyment of Victorian stories :-)

But then I read through your background info, and everyone's posts and I re-read the story and saw it in a completely different light. It's quite clever to write a short story just about eliminating a red herring.

And even though I was confused at the end of my first read through, I still really enjoyed reading the story. I felt Detective Wield had a very distinctive voice, something about the way the dialogue was written, I think, and I very much liked him as a character.


message 43: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Thank you, Bridget. I agree with you that Wield has a distinct personality that comes through even in such a short tale. Dickens would be proud that you liked him, because that was one of the primary reasons he wrote these stories--he wanted the every day man to like the police.


message 44: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments The Artful Touch

The second anecdote featuring Detective Wield concerns the apprehension of the “Swell Mob” (a gang of thieves) working Epsom Race Track on Derby Day.

Although the detectives are accustomed to working Epsom when there is a race or another event (Jenny Lind is mentioned) and are always on the alert for the swell mob, on this day the mob eludes them by taking a horse and shay and coming into the race track from the opposite direction of which they were expected.

Wield and his cohort, Witchem, are watching the public train lines, when they are approached by a gentleman known to Wield, one Mr. Tatt. Tatt invites them to have a glass of sherry with him, and when the next train has come in, and their work done, they accept the invitation. Wield notes that Mr. Tatt is wearing a handsome diamond pin in his lapel.

The men have taken several glasses of sherry at the bar when Witchem calls out “Look out, Mr. Wield! Stand fast!” and four members of the Swell Mob dash into the room. In a flash, Tatt’s pin is missing. A commotion ensues but the officers and Tatt are able to subdue the mob members and they are taken to the station. They are searched, but nothing is found on them and Wield is confounded as to how the pin might have been passed away from the thieves during the melee.

Wield is just telling Witchem that they have nothing on the mob, since nothing was found on their persons, when Witchem opens his palm and displays the pin in his hand. Wield and Tatt exclaim their surprise and ask Witchem how he came by the pin, and he replies that he saw which of the men had the pin and in the midst of the struggle on the floor, I just gave him a little touch on the back of his hand, as I knew his pal would, and he thought it WAS his pal; and gave it me!”

When the case comes to the Quarter Sessions, the culprit charges out of the dock, swims the river, and climbs into a tree to dry. Being, however, seen by an old woman, he is revealed and taken into custody. “...and Witchem’s artful touch transported him!”



message 45: by Sara (last edited Jul 05, 2022 06:00AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments Some Thoughts and Other Information

A swell mob is defined as “a group of criminals who dress fashionably and act with seeming respectability.” Just the kind of pick-pocket professionals you would expect to find at a race track or high-society event. I was inclined to think of the inimitable David Niven in The Pink Panther or the 1973 movie, Harry in Your Pocket. Being part of a “swell mob” is a concept that didn’t die out.

Purrfectly pink/ Diamond geysers? The Pink Panther (1963)/ A Shot In The Dark (1964) ~ Reviews | George's Journal

The Epsom Race Track is still in operation and the Epsom Derby is run yearly.

Derby race 19th century High Resolution Stock Photography and Images - Alamy

Jenny Lind

Jenny Lind was a Swedish opera singer known as The Swedish Nightingale. She was revered all over Europe and in America. Hans Christian Andersen fell in love with her, Queen Victoria personally threw flowers at her feet, Felix Mendelssohn rhapsodized over her gifts, and in city after city the public swamped her residences, singing songs in her honor, waiting hours for just a glimpse of her, and freeing her horses from their reins so that they could personally haul her carriage to the theater in triumph. She had an unprecedented devotion to charity, and her name was emblazoned on the hospital wards that she established

The Swedish Nightingale

The Quarter Sessions

The courts of quarter sessions were local courts traditionally held at four set times each year in the Kingdom of England from 1388 until 1972.
Quarter sessions generally sat in the seat of each county and county borough, and in numerous non-county borough. All quarter sessions were abolished in England and Wales in 1972, when the Courts Act 1971 replaced them and the assizes with a single permanent Crown Court.
The quarter sessions generally heard crimes that could not be tried summarily by the justices of the peace without a jury.

The quarter sessions did not have jurisdiction to hear the most serious crimes, most notably those subject to capital punishment or later life imprisonment. These crimes were sent for trial at the periodic assizes.

Transportation

In the 1800s criminal courts were looking for a punishment which was not as extreme as hanging, but tougher than a fine. Transportation had been used as a form of punishment since 1717. With many prisons full – sending criminals to Australia seemed an option. Over 80 years more than 165,000 convicts were transported to Australia. While the sentence would probably have been “transportation for seven years” for a lesser crime, the likelihood of a released prisoner being able to make his way home was very slim.

The practice was so widespread and Australia so frequently the destination, that in 2015, an estimated 20% of the Australian population had convict ancestry.


message 46: by Greg (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greg | 201 comments Thanks for the extra background Sara!

It's fun to see the thieves outwitted, and I especially liked when the older woman does her part in exposing the thief as he perches ignominiously in the tree! :)

These stories are quite short, but they're enjoyable reads! They don't have the lovely descriptive passages that I rightly or wrongly connect with Dickens, but I'm enjoying them nevertheless.


Kathleen | 489 comments This little anecdote sent me to google multiple times! I didn't know what a "Swell Mob" was or "Quarter Sessions," and I looked up a few more things just for details, like calling the pin a "prop." Maybe I'm just not running on all cylinders yet today, but I wasn't even sure what the transport meant at the end. So I thoroughly enjoyed all of your details, Sara. :-)

A very fun story. What a detail, to know just how to apply that artful touch!


message 48: by Greg (new) - rated it 3 stars

Greg | 201 comments Kathleen wrote: "This little anecdote sent me to google multiple times! I didn't know what a "Swell Mob" was or "Quarter Sessions," and I looked up a few more things just for details, like calling the pin a "prop."..."

Once I saw it in Sara's info, it made perfect sense . . . but I didn't quite connect his being "transported" to transportation to Australia either; so Kathleen, if the problem is that you're not running on full cylinders yet, I must not be yet either. :)


Kathleen | 489 comments Greg wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "This little anecdote sent me to google multiple times! I didn't know what a "Swell Mob" was or "Quarter Sessions," and I looked up a few more things just for details, like calling ..."

Maybe we just needed to switch from gas to petrol, Greg. :-)


message 50: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1529 comments lol. Delighted to have been of service!

I know what you mean about the long descriptive passage and even the intricate plot lines being missing, Greg. But, I think these were intentionally kept very sparse because Dickens wrote them primarily to sell the new Metropolitan Police detective division.

I wouldn't think of myself as soft on crime, but transportation seemed a stiff punishment for nicking a pin. On the other hand, I don't imagine this was the first pin he had nicked. Not that it lessens the horror of being exiled from your country and made to labor for any number of years, but many of the men (and women) who found themselves freed in Australia made a much better life for themselves than they could have expected in England. Probably much more opportunity if you were a hard worker and less stringent class divisions to overcome. {The statements in this paragraph are my own opinion based on reading I have done in the past, and do not purport to be fact based on research.}


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