Classics and the Western Canon discussion

With time’s wingèd chariot rapidly drawing the year to a close, I thought we might enjoy a poem about beginnings and endings and the journeys in between. So I have selected Ithaka by C.P. Cavafy.

Born Konstantinos Petrou Kavafis in 1863 in Alexandria, Egypt, Cavafy, as he is known in English, was the son of Greek parents. He is considered to be one of the most distinguished Greek poets of the 20th Century.

Ithaka is based on Odysseus’ journey home. Apparently, it was a favorite poem of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis who requested it read at her funeral.

A link to the poem: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem...

I found several readings of the poem. My absolute favorite is the reading by none other than C.P. Cavafy. I love his earnest expression and passion as he reads. His twirly moustache makes him all the more endearing. I’ve also included a reading by Tom O’Bedlam, which I enjoy. And although I’m a big fan of Sean Connery and his Scottish brogue, I find the music and videos accompanying his reading a bit distracting. But I’ve included that, as well.

Constantine P. Cavafy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN7MV...

Tom O’Bedlam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4D06...

Sean Connery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uoKz...

The poem makes reference to the challenges and adventures Odysseus encounters on his journey back to Ithaka, but it seems to suggest more than that. What’s your reading of the poem?

I like this poem. It doesn't have lush imagery or language for the most part, but I like the extended metaphor of the journey.

Ithaka is where Odysseus is trying to go; it's where we think our destination is. But the pleasure is in the smaller things, the ordinary living of the journey, the buying of "fine things" and "sensual perfumes," the joy of seeing the "harbors . . . for the first time."

It's not the destination that makes us "rich" but the smaller unexpected pleasures of the journey there. And the things that stop us or harm us are the things inside ourselves that waylay us, maybe our fears, our expectations, our self-consciousness, that prevent us from the simple enjoyments that we could otherwise enjoy.

"you won't encounter them / unless you bring them along inside your soul, / unless your soul sets them up in front of you."

The dangers are not external but internal. We are our own Cyclops, our own angry Poseidon.

I kind of find myself wishing though that I could more experience the wonders of the journey in the lanugage of the poem itself. I often find myself thinking something like that when I read Cavafy. The ideas are wonderful, but the imagery isn't what I'm used to in poetry; I don't experience in the language the wonder of seeing the harbor for the first time . . . though of course I know exactly what he means by it. I'm not sure if it's a translation thing or if it's a matter of his style that the imagery isn't particularly vivid. Or maybe it's just a matter of my personal preference.

Greg wrote: I don't experience in the language the wonder of seeing the harbor for the first time . . .

Your words reminded me of Keats’ On First Looking Into Chapman's Homer and how Keats captured the thrill and excitement and sense of wonder through his language when he first read Chapman’s Homer.

I love your reading of the Cafavy poem, and I agree that he doesn’t quite capture that sense of wonder and exhilaration in his language as does Keats in his poem. Do you think that is because his theme is philosophical, and, as such may not have need for the lush, sensuous imagery of Keats’ poem?

Tamara wrote: "Do you think that is because his theme is philosophical, and, as such may not have need for the lush, sensuous imagery of Keats’ poem?"

Thanks Tamara, and that's a good point!

I've read portions of C.P. Cavafy: The Poems of the Canon, and I recall several with a philosophical flavor. I can't help wanting the ecstatic experience and the sense of wonder when I read poetry - that's just something I personally enjoy. But I do think it's not so much a lack in Cavafy as him going for something else.

In the introduction to the book, there was an interesting segment about how Cavafy rejected some of his poems and chose not to include them in his "canon" because he thought they were too passionate, confessional, personal, or one sided: he valued poetry that was both the 'yes' and the 'no' at once. He wanted irony and balance.

Way back in school, I remember talking to my professor about Ruskin's non-fiction and John Henry Neumann's. The professor was a big Neumann fan and belabored all the flaws in Ruskin's logic. Yes, I had known immediately that a fair anount in Ruskin was overwrought or preposterous . . . Sesame and Lillies, oh my! But still, I often prefer something deeply flawed with flights of ecstasy to something precise, clear, and wonderfully controlled. That's just me. :)

Tamara,

Thank you for choosing this poem, a fitting one for the end of one year and the beginning of a new one.

I read this as a narrator imparting life’s lessons to the “you” of the poem. The narrator sets up a contrast between “you” and Odysseus on his journey home to Ithaka, one fraught with battles against the Laistrygonians, the Cyclops and an angry Posiden – positing that these enemies are internal manifestations that only exist if you carry them along inside your soul -- which I must confess I never thought of while reading the Odyssey, but it’s beautifully put.

I read stanza two as a kind of benediction – may you have a long life and partake of all the good things it has to offer – to find “harbors you’re seeing for the first time” and to buy fine things and learn from the Egyptians – in other words, to feed the soul and the mind to gain wisdom. I’m also struck with, again, the implied contrast with Odysseus who didn’t buy anything – he was a taker, who took his booty, he life was not lived through negotiations (buying fine things) so much as subterfuge, trickery and battle.

This is again referenced in stanza 3 – the narrator’s wish that the “you” of the poem arrives at Ithaka “wealthy with all you’ve gained on the way, not expecting Ithaka to make you rich” -- as opposed to Odysseus, who arrives at Ithaka, his homeland, unknown, unwelcomed, in danger.

In final stanzas, I’m wondering if Ithaka is perhaps “life” with its beginnings and endings; or perhaps “life’s choices” or perhaps “life’s stories” as there are now multiple Ithaka(s) not just Odysseus's Ithaka?

As a side note, months ago I stumbled across the Sean Connery rendition of this poem on YouTube, and I agree it’s somewhat over the top, but it did bring a lump to my throat. I should also mention that I’ve found the Odyssey to be something of a touchstone work for me, one that I read every so often and love to re-read.

Janet wrote: "Tamara,

Thank you for choosing this poem, a fitting one for the end of one year and the beginning of a new one.

I read this as a narrator imparting life’s lessons to the “you” of the poem. The ..."


You're welcome, Janet. I'm delighted you enjoy the poem.

The contrasts you set up between Odysseus and the advice the poet gives "you" in the poem is very interesting. I had picked up on the irony in the opening lines of the poem with Odysseus anxious to get home, eager to overcome whatever obstacles prevent him from doing so. Cavafy turns that on its head and says we should do the opposite by hoping for a long journey.

As you said, Odysseus is a taker. He arrives in Ithaka as a pauper, eager to regain his material wealth. Cafavy's wealth cannot be measured in terms of material positions. It is the wisdom and insight one gains by being open to new experiences.

Janet wrote: "In final stanzas, I’m wondering if Ithaka is perhaps “life” with its beginnings and endings; or perhaps “life’s choices” or perhaps “life’s stories” as there are now multiple Ithaka(s) not just Odysseus's Ithaka?

I think Ithaka lends itself to a number of possibilities.
Keep Ithaka always in your mind./Arriving there is what you’re destined for.

I take Ithaka here to mean death. We're all destined to end our journeys in death, and the poet is advising us to take our time, to savor the journey. But Ithaka is also life since we would never have experienced "the marvelous journey" without life.

He pluralizes Ithaka in the end when he says, you'll have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.

I think what he's getting at is life is one long journey that ends in death, but within that we embark on a lot of journeys. Our life consists of beginnings and endings, a lot of little "Ithakas" and we should savor those and garner wisdom and insight and be open to new experiences before we arrive at our final Ithaka.

I also see that each new experience, each journey with its beginnings and endings, its little "Ithakas," involves life and death. We shed our old skin with each journey. Our old self "dies" and our new self is "born" as we gain the wisdom and knowledge each Ithaka holds.

I'm struggling to find the right words to express my thoughts. I'm not sure I'm making any sense.

Janet wrote: "in other words, to feed the soul and the mind to gain wisdom. I’m also struck with, again, the implied contrast with Odysseus who didn’t buy anything – he was a taker, who took his booty, he life was not lived through negotiations (buying fine things) so much as subterfuge, trickery and battle."

Tamara wrote: "As you said, Odysseus is a taker. He arrives in Ithaka as a pauper, eager to regain his material wealth. Cafavy's wealth cannot be measured in terms of material positions. It is the wisdom and insight one gains by being open to new experiences."

Love this Janet and Tamara; it strikes me as spot on.

And I like too Janet when you describe portions of the poem as a benediction. I can feel that too, strongly. The poem is a benediction . . . and also a caution.

Life lived rightly is a benediction itself I suppose, and lived wrongly, it's the opposite.

And so….both Ithaka and the Odyessy are about homecomings and the lives we live and the way we perceive the lives we live (assuming we do so at all). But it’s true, I think that it’s all too human for us to live our lives like Odysseus – in a cloud of unknowing, tossed and turned by the ill luck of external circumstances (which Cavafy would say are not at all external, we carry our monsters with us).

Really, I do like this poem!

Tamara, agree that Ithaka could certainly mean "death"

Gregg, glad you like the continuation of the exploration of the poem

Like the discussion, Thanks.

Mention of Cavafy always reminds of Durrell, and reading The Alexandria Quartet the summer I was twenty-one. Ah, yes, life's journeys.

Lovely to hear from you, Lily.

The older I get, the more I think of life as a series of journeys with beginnings and endings and the liminal phases in between.