Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for Last Argument of Kings by Joe Abercrombie starting March 17, 2023.

So, is anyone still reading this series? Do we need to push back dates?

I had the intention of starting this today but if it needs to be postponed a bit I am okay with that. If it is put off longer than I can stand finding out what happens in book 3 I'll go ahead and just post in the thread when it happens.

I'm bit behind we can say :) need to read book 2..

If it's just the three of us reading, perhaps we could postpone at least by a week, maybe two? I won't be ready to join in for at least a week, if not longer....

I am fine with a week or two. Do you think the remaining 3 should go monthly?

I know there are folks planning on jumping in for the later books, so that might be a question for the greater group at large... but with so many other BRs going on right now, it seems like more folks are dropping out when they can't keep the pace... monthly might be a good idea...

Seems like I overdone with dates here LOL! Too many in too short time... Bad girl me :) Hope we will read them all this year :)

Monika, if we restructure the rest as monthly reads, say for around the 17th of each month, would that be acceptable? Since you're the one who organized this...

Yeah, go for it! I should do the same with WoT for us who just started reading it too...

I would also want to read this but I'm waaay behind the blade itself, so more time is welcomed

LOL I went to go post in the thread, and saw that Monika had already done so! :) Looking forward to picking up this one in a few weeks--and also having you join us Paula!

Waiting for Yanique and Iain to reschedule both series LOL!

Oh! It's been pushed back. No worries.
I've almost finished but wasn't checking in on the threads.
I'm all caught up now on the changes.

I am starting today, can't wait to see how this plays out!!!

Ghosts chapter: (view spoiler)[OMFG Logen finally met up with his crew!!!! <3 <3 <3

I thought I remembered that happening, glad it is early in the book for sure!!!

This Jezal and Ardie thing is baffling, I keep thinking she ends up with (view spoiler)[Glotka (hide spoiler)] but I don't know if that is a buried memory from reading this years ago or wishful thinking on my part. Bayez setting up Jezal as the next king definitely makes sense with how this has gone so far. (hide spoiler)]

Loving it so far, I have been switching between reading and listening, the narration is top notch but I can read so much faster so I can get to the end lol

So looking forward to it! Have two other audio to finish but fingers crossed for end of the week.

Waiting for my book while reading book number 2 :)

I am a few chapters into Part 2

(view spoiler)[Just getting to the fight between Logen and Fenris and it is so late! I want to read but this chapter is so long and I have to go to sleep, ugh!

Random thoughts: Dow's eulogy for Tul, so good! I am unsure how Jezal being king is going to play out, he is so stupid still. West is growing on me again, I liked how he got those 2 idiot generals to play nice. The action scenes are so good in this series, really some of the best I have ever read.

Okay I am going to stop listening now and continue tomorrow lol (hide spoiler)]

So I finished and as much as I enjoyed it I can't say I loved the ending. (view spoiler)[Bayez is still firmly in charge in absentia, Ferro is off doing who knows what, West is alive/dying/dead and Logen is maybe alive? I am going to go with he is alive. I know this is the end of the trilogy and I have never read the rest of the extended universe books so I can only hope that some of these characters *cough* LOGEN *cough* shows up.

I did remember Glotka and Ardee marrying but I had in my head that they left the country so my memory was partly right. Glad that it seems like they will be happy together, they (like ALL of the characters) are so very flawed but I am glad that it worked out for them.

When Glotka was like "Are you Valint or Balk?" and Bayez said "Both" I was like both? I thought he was one of them but him being solely in charge makes perfect sense.

The fight between Logen & Fenris then Berthod was so good! I ended up staying up last night to finish that chapter and it was worth having to drink an extra half cup of coffee this morning!!!!

The war with the Gurkish was exciting too! Abercrombie writes action so well. And the political maneuvering also, I enjoyed it quite a bit!

Except for Dogman and maybe Ardee pretty much everyone in this series is a terrible person, just different levels of terrible. Did I love reading their stories? I absolutely did, every moment of it. It seems I am all in for anti-hero, morally gray characters.

Overall absolutely loved this trilogy and am cautiously optimistic that some old friends will be in the expansion of the universe. (hide spoiler)]

Basically I loved the series, and although I didn't love the ending I would recommend this to others.

Started yesterday and I am up to Chapter 16 Kingmaker and LOVING it so far... Glokta and Logen especially making me laugh every chapter... some for Jezal too, though you can tell everything is heading to hell in a handbasket...

Finally! I don't have to put this in double spoiler tags anymore... (view spoiler)[Jezal announced as King! And it was so cool, rereading this series and remembering this one tidbit, looking back and seeing all of Bayaz's machinations, as Glokta put it: Pieces of a puzzle, patient years in the preparation, calmly slotted into place before our disbelieving eyes. And not a thing that we can do, except, perhaps, to dance along to his tune? I also loved the scene, back in Chapter 12 Flowers and Plaudits, essentially seeing what kind of King Jezal would be--when he's sitting uncomfortable in his dress uniform, and thinks Bayaz had been persistent...It had seemed easier, in the end, just to do as he was told.--if Jezal won't learn to become a true king, well, I'm sure Bayaz would actually rather have someone who will "do as he was told."

And now, what will this mean for Ardee...? Nothing good! (hide spoiler)]

I was thinking how I love Logen's repeated lines--Ann-Marie brought this up in book 2 thread--"Still alive" and "you've got to be realistic" and "Say something for Logen Ninefingers, say that he's..." and so on... really fun spice to his already interesting character--(view spoiler)[I really love (and am sad) to watch how he changes when back among the Northerners--becoming more Bloody Nine, less Logen--all of those bits of "maybe he would have" or "would have liked to" but the Bloody Nine wouldn't do that, so he can't. He'd like to just be one of the faceless normal people, but his reputation--like his berserker side--haunt him... no more for him, the easy days of comraderie in a small group on a quest... he slips the Bloody Nine back on like a blood-caked glove... (hide spoiler)]

Meanwhile, West... (view spoiler)[I love how the Northmen are still referring to him as Furious! Just makes me smile... but then, right after the Lord Marshall praised him for NOT calling a doctor on his last stomach lapse... then Burr dies... and all the other commanders refused to do anything... that was such an OH SHIT moment, finding his body... sinking feeling getting pretty strong right now... (hide spoiler)]

Next chapter The Trap I love the Hillmen! Hillman? (view spoiler)[Crazy cooker! And his daughter with the huge hammer is awesome... "Beloved of the Moon!" is a really interesting description for Logen, makes me think of how the Moon was associated with madness, and how it's changeable faces dark side/light side could be a metaphor for Logen's split personalities...

Also thinking, of how Bethod has that witch woman at his side... and how it was revealed that Brother Longfoot had been suborned by Bayaz's nemisis in Ghurkal... makes me wonder if the witch woman isn't another of Khalul's apprentices... I have a feeling that no matter what plot we overturned, we'd find either Bayaz or K in the slimy underside of that rock... (hide spoiler)]

Through 19 Prepared For The Worst (view spoiler)[I loved seeing Jezal slowly realize the trap of his situation... and him proclaiming West as Marshall! Had to happen, once Jezal was king... and I am SO looking forward to the chaos that will cause when West gets the word...

Poor Ardee though...

Sault raging at Glokta... with the bit about bringing Jezal to bit or needing to get rid of him... does he realize he just handed Glokta what he needs to overthrow him? Does Glokta? Jezal is king now, and Sault is raging treason... (hide spoiler)]

20 The Habit of Command yup, that was satisfying... (view spoiler)[Now worried about if West will make it in time to back up Logen & co in their deathtrap... (hide spoiler)]

Finished Part One! Start of Part 2! (view spoiler)[I am starting to wonder if Quai might not have been suborned by Khalul...

I find it really interesting how the northmen sort of covered for Logen... they must have known that Logen did a lot of the damage on their side as Bloody Nine, right? Or maybe they don't even realize it...

Poor Jezal... not. (hide spoiler)]

I also really like the Part Two epigraph--(view spoiler)["The Last Argument of Kings" was carved on the side of one of the Louis' (XVI?) cannons. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 36 Skarling's Chair--well, damn (view spoiler)[when no-one said anything for so long after the battle I was hoping... in that scene with the Bloody Nine and he killed Thunderhead, and then the boy with the spear.... I was really hoping that wasn't Crummock's little boy... but it was... damn. In Bloody Nine's POV, it's so hard to tell who is who... like seeing through a red haze.

I do love how with the conversation with Bethod earlier, and now, post fight... it feels like, as a reader, our foundation has been shaken. And the person we thought Logen was, he isn't. In Logen's mind, in his POV, he separates the Bloody Nine from himself, and we feel like the things he does when goes Berserk or Hyde is something done TO him rather than something he DOES. But we start seeing, through the eyes of the people around him... that they don't see it that way--they all see him as one whole, Logen Ninefingers, the Bloody Nine, and he is not whom he thinks he is... (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 40 Better Left Burning--(view spoiler)[Lots of answers!! OMG I was right about Quai not being the same... ish! I didn't think he had been replaced by an eater--and more than an eater!! Kanadius' daughter herself!! I just thought he'd been turned to betray Bayaz!! Poor Quai...

Not surprised about Bayaz being the one who (tried to) kill Kanadius' daughter, and probably who killed Juvens, and essentially being the bad guy. I think I might have remembered some sliver of that. But I do think it is a really interesting study. Even knowing what Bayaz did, and that Khalul did everything he did to try to build up a power base to take revenge on Bayaz... I'd still rather be on Bayaz's side than Khalul's. End and means? Khalul's means were unforgiveable. (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Ghosts chapter: OMFG Logen finally met up with his crew!!!! <3 <3 <3

I thought I remembered that happening, glad it is early in the book for sure!!!

This Jezal and Ardie thing is baffling, I keep..."

re: Ardee--I remember that too. (view spoiler)[So I've been watching Jezal & Ardee... knowing they're heading for a trainwreck... and knowing who will pick up the pieces. Or rather, by letting her pick up his pieces, she puts herself back together. And I also think I remember (view spoiler)[that when Jezal & Ardee had to split, she was already pregnant...another "royal" bastard. (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

While I was really excited to see Logen (view spoiler)[see his folks again--it also felt a little anticlimactic. Maybe because the enthusiasm was very healthily tempered with ... not quite fear. But something close to fear. (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "I am a few chapters into Part 2

Just getting to the fight between Logen..."

That fight was pretty spectacular. (view spoiler)[I found it especially interesting how I think this is the first time we've seen Logen embrace Bloody Nine? The other times he was all "oh no, oh no" but here he was like "yes, YES!"--and it makes me wonder... is this what he was like before? Always welcoming him in his duels and beyond? (hide spoiler)]

re: Jezal--through Chapter 39 Charity (view spoiler)[I really liked the scene where Jezal asks Terez if they can't at least be civil, and that he is trying... as a king, as a husband... to do well. And she just ... wow. More than shuts him down. I remember part of why--(view spoiler)[she's gay, her lover is one of her handmaidens (hide spoiler)], plus she always knew she would be sold to marriage, which I'm sure disgusted her, and I mean, she's a snob--but I'm surprised she has absolutely ZERO empathy either for Jezal or for the people whom she is supposed to be ruling...

I look at Jezal, especially in his most arrogant I AM KING moments, and I look at others like Ladislaw, Sult, the two idiot generals West deals with--all of whom are in this "upper crust" of society, and see the same lack of empathy and arrogance disease in them... and I think, how they all have the same seed origin and the different paths they took, how similar they are still... (hide spoiler)]

I'm finally starting this book later today! The ending to the last book was tragic and I can't wait to see how this book wraps up the trilogy

XD Be prepared for more tragedy and pain! Say one thing for Abercrombie, say he knows how to torture us until we beg for more.

I can't wait to see how you feel about the ending!

50 Answers (view spoiler)[I love how Glokta is like "Well, nice job for keeping this shit-show together" and Bayaz is like "You think this was a shit-show? You should have seen when I made this place. That was a shit show. This was just Tuesday." And then Glokta is like "I'm sorry, was I supposed to be listening to you? Just tell me what you want."

And what does that say, about all the pain and tragedy and the dregs of human-kind, the lives lost, the sweeping world-wide impact and nation-crushing hosts gathered and crushed... that this was just Bayaz's Tuesday. Really makes me want to get that civil war & creation of the country story... (hide spoiler)]

52 Patriotic Duties (view spoiler)[I find it really interesting that the effects of the demon stone are inspired by? similar to? that of an atomic bomb and radiation poisoning. It feels that much more sinister for that touch of reality-inspired horror.

I love how this scene, with Glokta proposing, is written in such a way to lead us to think he's going to pull out a knife, not a ring... even though Glokta has never been one to spring a surprise attack himself, with his twisted body, but rather the bait... while the knife comes from one of his subordinates... (hide spoiler)]

And follow-up, 57 Not What You Wanted--(view spoiler)[This scene really shows how good of a pairing Ardee & Glokta are... the same thing that kept Glokta surviving through his torture, that keeps him alive even now and drew him to the Inquisition, was the drive to do something, to mean something--and Ardee has that same drive. They have both been tortured in different ways, but clung on through everything because they didn't want life to be pointless....

Add to that how Glokta is the only man--person--in her life not to pity her, or look down upon her, or wish to use her for his own interests or desires--he sees her as she is and accepts her as she is, with no demands or judgment. He made sure she had what she needed and did not demand anything in return, nor make a fuss or strut of it. (hide spoiler)]

Other thoughts up to here--(view spoiler)[I absolutely love Jezal getting the information that he's some whore's bastard get. From the very beginning, before even being named king, he'd been so assured of his superiority through noble blood--and now to find these were all illusions and ashes... I just wish we got more of him actually realizing the implications of Bayaz's revelation, instead of him just wallowing in the aftermath of pain...

And it was also ironic, with Jezal all being "who are you to tell a king what to do??" and thinking... what is a king to a creature that lives for millennia? Seriously? Did you even stop to think? But no, Jezal doesn't do the best at thinking...

And Bayaz isn't wrong... when you live that long, and are essentially the only one left with power... who is going to come back and say, no, you can't break the First Law. No, you shouldn't play games with the lives of millions. No, your version of right isn't a good version. Who argues with gods? And even if we did, would the world be better off for it? Bayaz is ruthless, but at least he isn't trying to enslave the world and feed it to his armies... Still, it seems the world would be better off with all of the Magi dead... (hide spoiler)]

Finished--I actually rather like the ending... (view spoiler)[Say one thing for Logen Ninefingers, say that he's.... a survivor--is how I would end it. This isn't the first time he's fallen into a river and survived. Though I would be fine with him not showing up in later books too--as long as no one ever finds a corpse, I can imagine that Logen actually gets what he wants--realistically--and you have to be realistic--Logen was just as trapped in his Kinghood as Jezal. It wasn't something he wanted, and every minute in that position Logen was dying and Bloody Nine was taking over by inches.

Only by repeating his death--a rebirth through water even, and complete full circle back to the very very very beginning... "The End" chapter in book 1--that was his chance to walk away from everything, and find out who Logen was away from the Bloody Nine. Both he and Jezal looked back on their journey for the demon stone with fondness and longing... they were their best selves at that time, with a freedom to become them. Now, as kings, that freedom, and self, are gone... only by dying--or seeming too--can Logen escape the Bloody Nine... I'm just going to hope that the river washes him far away from anyone who has heard of his legend.

The more I think about it, the more I like it... the end is really exactly the same as the opening, enforcing the cyclical nature of history, and people being doomed to repeat their mistakes... we can hope that Logen can escape it this time... (hide spoiler)]

Loved my reread! I see a lot of folks didn't like the ending--I thin I felt the same the first time I read it, but on the reread, both vaguely remembering what was coming, and also knowing that there were sequel series, I actually loved every minute of it. Usually I don't like watching trainwrecks when I know they're coming, but this I just had to marvel at each stone and swipe of mortar... I love how Abercrombie crafted this story.

Very curious to see what the next books have in store! This is as far as I've gotten in the series.

Nirkatze wrote: "XD Be prepared for more tragedy and pain! Say one thing for Abercrombie, say he knows how to torture us until we beg for more."

Ugh, so true xD

Through the first 4 Chapters (don't know what the title is though) So happy to get to the third book :D (view spoiler)[ Glokta keeps asking the same question "Why do I do this?" I wonder if we'll get an answer to that...

Liked seeing Dogman in a leadership position.. Sucks he had to kill the kid though.. But he seems to be handling Dow well.

And our adventurers come back rather defeated accomplishing nothing but going on a long trip lol
Jezal almost gets it... Appalled at the beating of the girl, but only because it happens in front of him, still a twat xD
But that intervention will put him in favor with the people for sure! His reunion with Ardee did not go like he thought! I'm still feeling bad for Ardee, but I think she needs to get her shit together... She needs an intervention or something (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "50 Answers I love how Glokta is like "Well, nice job for keeping this shit-show together" and Bayaz is like "You think this was a shit-show? You should have seen when I made this place. That was a ..."

I didn't hate the ending but I didn't love it either. I don't remember what I thought when I read it years ago but if I hated it I feel like I would remember that lol Very much looking forward to the first in the expanded series!

I'm firmly in the camp that (view spoiler)[Bayaz (hide spoiler)] needs to die in a fire... but otherwise, I love Abercrombie's writing, hope he writes another trilogy someday, beyond the Age of Madness trilogy, and plan to read his new book/series, in the meantime, when it comes out...

Timelord Iain wrote: "I'm firmly in the camp that [spoilers removed] needs to die in a fire... but otherwise, I love Abercrombie's writing, hope he writes another trilogy someday, beyond the Age of Madness trilogy, and ..."

Completely agree!

Timelord Iain wrote: "I'm firmly in the camp that [spoilers removed] needs to die in a fire... but otherwise, I love Abercrombie's writing, hope he writes another trilogy someday, beyond the Age of Madness trilogy, and ..."

Well, I guess that answers whether or not (view spoiler)[Bayaz (hide spoiler)] survives the Age of Madness series... damn, I had such hopes.

Ann-Marie wrote: "Ghosts chapter: OMFG Logen finally met up with his crew!!!! <3 <3 <3

I thought I remembered that happening, glad it is early in the book for sure!!!

This Jezal and Ardie thing is baffling, I keep..."

I'm in Chapter 47 now. Replying to all the goodies left behind! :D (view spoiler)[ I was glad for this too! It did feel a little anti-climactic though as Nirkatze said and kind of tinged with uncertainty... It's also the beginning of Logen's decline into the Bloody Nine

I was also thinking the same for Ardee! So maybe that is what actually happens... (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "I am a few chapters into Part 2

Just getting to the fight between Logen and Fenris and it is so late! I want to read but this chapter is so long and I have to go to sleep, ugh!

Random thoughts: D..."

I loved that scene with West! Had me grinning throughout (view spoiler)[ and he just tosses away the fake later after he talks to both generals.. Really that was the only way to handle that situation. (hide spoiler)]

Ah, so many good scenes in these books! Love reading your comments Emily... makes me nostalgic even though I only just finished... lol

Nirkatze wrote: "Started yesterday and I am up to Chapter 16 Kingmaker and LOVING it so far... Glokta and Logen especially making me laugh every chapter... some for Jezal too, though you can tell everything is head..."

There are a surprising amount of moments in this that have me actually laughing or at least smiling like a lunatic in public :D

Replying with context up to Chapter 47!

Re Jezal (view spoiler)[I'm sure Bayaz would actually rather have someone who will "do as he was told."
Yeah 100%. Whenever Jezal does try to assert authority he gets glares/criticism from Jezal... Bayaz wanted a puppet! (hide spoiler)]

Re Logen (view spoiler)[I really love (and am sad) to watch how he changes when back among the Northerners--becoming more Bloody Nine, less Logen
Right?? He says he has to do that because if you're not a vicious leader, and give no ground then you get stabbed in the back. But Dogman tries to tell him it doesn't have to be that way spilling more blood will just lead to more and more blood spilled...

he slips the Bloody Nine back on like a blood-caked glove...
LOVE how you put this! It's so true. I love the character work done here. We get Logen after he was already separated from the Northerners and those he led as "The Bloody Nine" so he was able to just be Logen for a while. But with the reunion comes his trappings of his reputation and he feels like he needs to embody that. We also get ALOT more scenes of him going into berserk Bloody Nine mode. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "I also really like the Part Two epigraph--[spoilers removed]

Chapter 36 Skarling's Chair--well, damn when no-one said anything for so long after the battle I was hoping... in that scene with the B..."
Re 36 (view spoiler)[ I do love how with the conversation with Bethod earlier, and now, post fight... it feels like, as a reader, our foundation has been shaken.
Exactly how it makes you feel! The first two books you kind of fall in love with Logen as a character... Sure he's brutal, but it seems like his head is in the right place... He just has some bad luck and is trying to survive. But in this book especially we learn more and more about his past and its like... wait... Is this the same guy?
Because even with his Berserker Bloody Nine persona, he was still pushing Bethod into invasions.. If what Bethod said is true and Logen was the one who essentially made Bethod King it gives a whole new perspective on the situation. (I still <3 Logen though xD) (hide spoiler)]

@Emily--re: Bloody Nine--I like your observations (view spoiler)[about Dogman telling Logen it doesn't have to be this way--I mean, Dogman as Chief is proof it doesn't have to be that way. Dogman would never have been able to stand up to Black Dow, or Thunderhead, or probably even Harding Grim in a duel... but they chose him as chief.

That whole "trappings of reputation" caging Logen in to being Bloody Nine again is part of why I find the ending more hopeful than not... (hide spoiler)]

And man, I just love what Abercrombie did to us with this whole character... like (view spoiler)[not just an unreliable narrator, but like we can't trust our own frickin' emotions toward that character.... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 1 done. Nice :) political games! Glokta seems vicious, but does he like to be that way? Hmmm... That's not even buying votes...

Finished! I actually rather liked the ending too this time around. I'm thinking back to what Nirkatze said about Bayaz (view spoiler)[ saying "just another Tuesday" for him... And honestly this whole trilogy is "just another Tuesday" for the world.. What has really changed? Bayaz is still in control of the Union.. sure it needs rebuilding, but with a guy who is essentially immortal it will be rebuilt in no time. He's still in contention with Khalul, but with different ways to fight now.. Money rather than magic and both using anything and everything they feel like. The north doesn't have a king anymore, but then it only had a king for a short amount of time.. There never really was a united north..

The whole plot is just so untraditional and I love it :D

And I hope Logen can discover himself again away from the Bloody Nine. I suppose we might find out in the sequels.. It's interesting that he still thinks of Ferro... But I don't think there's anything there for him. I would like to see Ferro get revenge on the Emperor though :) (hide spoiler)]

Tonari no Emily wrote: "Finished! "..."

You know, there's a theory that (view spoiler)[Bayaz is ALSO Khalul, and the contention is all an act to further control the world in different ways...

As shown in the later standalones, (view spoiler)[Bayaz is also an Eater, or whatever they're called, like those he supposedly fights... (hide spoiler)]

And we never really see Khalul... neither do most of his followers, I don't think... (hide spoiler)]

There are problems with the theory... but if true, I'm sure they could be reconciled...

Huh, that is interesting... Not sure I buy it right now, but I'll pay attention for future books

Timelord Iain wrote: "Tonari no Emily wrote: "Finished! "..."

You know, there's a theory that Bayaz is ALSO Khalul, and the contention is all an act to further control the world in different ways...

As shown in the la..."

I think that is possible but unlikely. (view spoiler)[It seemed to me the way Bayez's reaction to any mention of Khalul was genuine rage. I mean Abercrombie could make it work but if it isn't done well it would be disappointing to me. (hide spoiler)]

@Emily--I really like your analysis of the whole story and the world--(view spoiler)[I didn't even take a step back and think of how true that is... really, nothing has changed... !!! Ah! Gave me shivers there. (hide spoiler)]

@folks, re: Bayaz theory--(view spoiler)[Considering that there are other characters in the story who have met Khalul, I'd only consider that theory if it included a caveat that Bayaz maybe already killed Khalul--and then took his place... maybe even had another minion like the heterochromia dude take his face and his place...

But yeah, I don't think it's that probable, unless retconned. Why bother? Why is Bayaz even bothering with power? (hide spoiler)]

Slowly going through this one... Cause preparing for trip to Poland. Chapter 2 behind me. Dorman doing good as new chief...so far.

Gotta love Dogman!

Definitely, he seems sort of sensible :)