Reading the 20th Century discussion

Welcome to our April 2023 buddy read of...



The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side (1962)


It's Christie, it's Marple, it's the 1960s


Come one come all



One minute, silly Heather Babcock had been babbling on at her movie idol, the glamorous Marina Gregg. The next, Heather suffered a massive seizure, poisoned by a deadly cocktail.

It seems likely that the cocktail was intended for the beautiful actress. But while the police fumble to find clues, Miss Marple begins to ask her own questions, because as she knows--even the most peaceful village can hide dark secrets.

I've gone early on this


Loving it so far

How old do we think Miss Marple is in this one?

I love the antipathy to her carer and how on the New Development she saw what she took to be Teddy Boys

No crime yet but plenty to enjoy and appreciate

Hurrah, glad you're enjoying this one. I don't think either Miss Marple or Poirot age in the books - in this one she's mobile, out alone, as sharp as ever. Plus age was 'different' then with life expectancy lower (though it's currently dropping again in both the UK and US...)

Thanks RC. I was interested because AC makes play of her age and she is being perceived by as old aged by some around her. Though as you say, as sharp as ever.

I'm now at a cocktail party held by the glamorous showbiz new neighbours. Great stuff.

Yes, Miss Marple is perceived of as 'old' from her first appearance (The Murder at the Vicarage, I think, 1930) and that's part of her role: to expose the way society overlooks older women, writing them off as 'useless'. Various police officers and murderers find out how wrong they are!

There have been variations in the way she's been played on TV, from Geraldine McEwan's twinkly Marple who's probably in her 60s to Joan Hickson who makes her closer to her 80s.

I just checked the later books and while they don't claim to be chronological, Jane Marple goes to the Caribbean, to stay in London, and on a coach tour - so there's plenty of life in her yet 😉

It is a long time since I read this but we know that time is passing, even if we do not see Miss Marple age. We first came across Gossington Hall and Mrs Bantry (and her husband) in The Body in the Library. The Hall has now been sold by Mrs Bantry to Marina.

Fabulous replies 👏🏼


Thanks all. Worth the price of my annual RTTC subscription for those insightful posts alone

And a great point about the way Miss Marple powerfully shines a light on how society overlooks and undervalues older women

Sonia wrote: "It is a long time since I read this but we know that time is passing, even if we do not see Miss Marple age."

Absolutely. And I think the choice of this book came out of our chat about a book where Christie is marking the social changes during her life - even if Poirot himself and Jane Marple barely age over what? 50 years or so?

There is a new novel coming out by Joanne Harris on that very theme Broken Light but, yes, Agatha Christie beat her to that one. Nigeyb, you might really enjoy Christie's memoir, Come, Tell Me How You Live: An Archaeological Memoir. It is full of humour and digs at the way women are seen, including the indignity of having to buy clothes once you get older. I think you'd love it.

Thanks Susan, I remember your review of that book and have got it on my list. Sounds fab


The murder (or first murder?) has now taken place with plenty for the detectives to ponder. Miss M it staying out of it for now though the cogs are already whirring in the background. All most agreeable it is too.

Top tip RC and Susan - thanks for inspiring me to read it. You two are the best

By the by, there really is something called Calmo and it can be fatal. I found this online….


Commercial Mistletoe (Calmo) extracts generally have minimal side effects, but in rare cases allergic symptoms including anaphylactic reactions have been reported. It usually produces an increase in body temperature and flu-like symptoms. In addition, the injection site can become inflamed and abdominal pain with nausea may occur. Other side effects include: upset stomach, vomiting, diarrhea, chills, fever, headaches, chest pain, and low blood pressure. Overdoses, however, can cause severe poisoning including seizures, coma and death. Even a few leaves or berries can cause poisoning, so never eat part of a Mistletoe (Calmo) plant and keep the plants away from animals and children. In addition, because the preparation contains tyramine, patients on any type of monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitor antidepressant should not take it. The combination can cause dangerously high blood pressure. People with heart problems should also be careful, since it raises blood pressure and accelerates the pulse. Therapy is normally discontinued in case of high temperature over 38ºC. Some research indicates Iscador injections should not be administered during the first days of the menstrual period. Seizures and death have been reported. This product should only be used in a closely supervised setting, and should not be used for normal consumption - reasons Mistletoe (Calmo) products must be prescribed by a physician.
More: https://www.ndrugs.com/?s=calmo

Hang on, I may have spoken too soon. Breaking news....


In terms of poisons, Christie invariably played with a straight bat. She never used untraceable poisons; she carefully checked the symptoms of overdoses, and was as accurate as to the availability and detection of these compounds as she could be. But there were a few notable exceptions. Serenite (A Caribbean Mystery), Benvo (Passenger to Frankfurt) and Calmo (The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side) are drugs that are pure Christie inventions, though the properties she attributed to them are very similar to those of barbiturate drugs. In fairness to Christie, she only used one of her invented drugs to kill a character, in The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side; otherwise, these drugs were not critical to the plot.


Pasted from this fascinating article:

Agatha Christie Was Actually a Poison Master

https://www.thedailybeast.com/agatha-...

She even joked about the South American untraceable poison from a blowpipe but can't say which book for fear of spoilers... Aggie is the best!

Aggie Aggie Aggie!

But not Out Out Out!

Are you impressed I know that? 😄

I am, it's pretty niche

Nigeyb wrote:


"Aggie Aggie Aggie!"

Yes Yes Yes!

Oh, I remember the untraceable poison and the blowpipe :)

I just posted a link to the wrong book. I meant to suggest this as being a good read:

A Taste for Poison: Eleven Deadly Substances and the Killers Who Used Them

Interesting how many characters in this use one instead of I or you. No one does that now.


One wonders, when did it die out?

And when did it start?

I still use "one" but I am known as the family pedant. (They probably have other names for me as well!!)

I have embarked on my re-read (or rather re-listen) of this now. I know the story backwards and remember 'whodunnit,' and why, but I know it will still be a delight.

Miss Knight is a great character

Finished


Splendid. More musings coming soon 🤠

Susan wrote: "I have embarked on my re-read (or rather re-listen) of this now. I know the story backwards and remember 'whodunnit,' and why, but I know it will still be a delight."

That's exactly how I feel about re-reading Christie. I watched the ITV episode at Christmas which has Joanna Lumley as Dolly Bantry and she was clearly having a marvellous time!

I've used "one" since I was corrected from "you" in school.

Jan C wrote:


"I've used "one" since I was corrected from "you" in school."

Interesting - thanks

And you too Barbara

Here's a spoiler free review....


https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Thanks for inspiring me to read this one. It's a lot of fun and very enjoyable

The problem with using 'one' in English is that it's associated with a certain form of class-based snobbery - lots of jokes about Queen Victoria, the Queen, Charles etc where it figures as a code for their out-of-touch-ness and privilege.

While the French equivalent, 'on', is used routinely and doesn't have the same connotations. It tends to get translated in literary fiction as 'we'.

So glad you enjoyed this, Nigeyb. I think the motive and solution is beautifully done.

I still think that Christie stands out even against the other Golden Age detective writers who we read in Susan and Judy's Detectives group - she's so slick, so clever, wonderful sleight of hand and she doesn't cheat i.e. the clues are all there for us but she misleads us like the expert she is.

Her books also feel far less dated to me than Dorothy L. Sayers or Josephine Tey, much as I like them both.

Looking forward to re-reading this.

I love Sayers, but I seem to struggle with Tey. I see her books are appearing on Audible so I might give them another try. I love the fact that, after searching around for years, so many of the GA authors I love are there on kindle. I need to start buying all the Dean Street press books, in case they do close it down now.

I like Sayers too but the earlier books, especially, do feel very snobby with Lord Peter Wimsey at his most unbearable, almost Bertie Wooster-ish, with his silly ass jokes and his monocle.

As the series evolves, he settles down. Harriet and Bunter bring out his more human qualities.

Tey also has issues. Her The Franchise Affair is unreadable for me with its demonisation of a working class woman: it's quite rabid, Telegraph-reader stuff. But some of her other books featuring Inspector Grant are are much more interesting with far less judgemental attitudes. I think she's also the best writer of stylish prose out of the detective Queens.

From various things Jan has said, I'm guessing she and I are about the same age. I highly doubt that younger people are saying "one must speak like that." I know my grandkids would look at me quizzically if I spoke like that around them. (I give them the same look at times!)

I am enjoying listening to this. St Mary Mead is changing quite a lot - not only a new 'development' and supermarket, but also the film studios. Bit out of the way.

We have Elstree near us which is on the edge of London and quite far out too, so perhaps not that unlikely.

A village near Elstree or Pinewood feels likely


There is a lot to enjoy isn't there?

The changing landscape: new developments, big house being sold, different attitude to service, less deference etc but also striking how much never changes as Miss M observes at one point

I'll be making a start soon on this, maybe this very day.

I was just looking up the Marple books in order and the theme of social change has been going on in the post-war books even before this.

In They Do It With Mirrors the 'big house' has become a charity home for children; in A Pocket Full of Rye, the owners are nouveaux riches stockbrokers; and in 4:50 from Paddington they're the makers of sweets - so the old landed gentry has already passed on: Lucy Eylesbarrow in Paddington is an Oxford-educated career cook and housekeeper. At Bertram's Hotel makes this social change part of the plot.

Chatting about it has made me realize the Marple books are far more aware of social change than the Poirot books, maybe because they're more domestic and set generally outside London?

Very interesting. Thanks RC.


I prefer Miss Marple to Monsieur Poirot, but both have their distinct charms

I love both and many of her stand-alones, or lesser known characters. Marple is very much over-looked though and she deserves better. If Christie had just created Jane Marple and not Poirot, she would still be one of the Queens of Crime.

100% Susan

Barbara wrote: "From various things Jan has said, I'm guessing she and I are about the same age. I highly doubt that younger people are saying "one must speak like that." I know my grandkids would look at me quizz..."

"One" was to be used in writing. I'd sound a bit pompous if I went around using "one" in everyday spoken language.

The royals seem to have stopped using "one" instead of "I" much in speech these days.

Susan wrote: "I love both and many of her stand-alones, or lesser known characters. Marple is very much over-looked though and she deserves better."

I love both too, especially the Poirot/Hastings books for their humour. Tommy and Tuppence are a lively duo though their books lean more to thrillers than detective stories.

Nigeyb, let us know when you're next in a Christie mood, I'm sure Susan and I will be happy to join you.

Oh, and check out The Man in the Brown Suit, one of my favorite non Poirot/Marple books - I have the feeling you'd like it :)

Always happy to re-read any Christie.

Thanks both. Watch this space 🫶🏻

I've made a start on Mirror...

It's interesting to see that Dolly Bantry says she's doesn't have an emotional attachment to Gossington Hall, that she and Colonel Bantry bought it after he retired. That's not the impression I had from the earlier books where I thought they were long-term residents with family connections.

Also, weird snippet, I was a bit taken aback that Miss Marple's lazy gardener is growing kale. I thought it was a modern trendy thing, cabbage crossed with something? Anyway, love the idea of Christie's characters nibbling on crispy kale with their dry sherry :)

Roman Clodia wrote: "I've made a start on Mirror...

It's interesting to see that Dolly Bantry says she's doesn't have an emotional attachment to Gossington Hall, that she and Colonel Bantry bought it after he retired..."

It is 2000 years old. Maybe more.

Yes, the Kale thing was interesting


Re continuity, I doubt Agatha Christie thought readers would be paying such careful attention. She must have had trouble keeping track herself given her prodigious workrate