Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for An Artificial Night by Seanan McGuire starting March 5, 2023.


Happy Reading!

thank you!!

Spot!

Finished my re-read already! I feel like this is definitely an improvement from the first two.. It's not so much a mystery as Toby getting into her usual deadly trouble...

Damn, I really should have taken the time to jot down things I was going to bring up, but I'm drawing a bit of a blank now lol (view spoiler)[ I didn't realize May appears so early in the series, for some reason I thought it was a bit later, but I'm glad we're collecting the family :D

It was kind of hard to picture Toby looking like a nine year old and still being all adult, but it's interesting who knew it was Toby, and who didn't..

I mostly just have series spoiler stuff, so don't click my next spoiler! (view spoiler)[ no really, don't xD(view spoiler)[ I was trying to pay very close attention to hints about Toby's heritage... Ludieag calls Toby a child of Oberon even though Titania claims the Doaine Sidhe, Blind Michael mentioning his father's children and grand-children.. More of an emphasis on Toby's blood magic again.. And I didn't realize Maeve's last ride was brought up so early as well... And of course Amandine used that as a lullaby for Toby xD

Was also trying to see if anything was weird about Stacy, but I didn't notice anything too peculiar.. Although looking it up on the Wiki, Andrew's birthday ran from midnight to midnight and no one seemed to notice. I wish I had a physical copy to check...

Am also trying to pay close attention to Marcia now... (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

I just started a couple of days ago. I was in a romance mood so I didn't get very far, but I'll get back to it in a day or two. I'm looking forward to seeing if this improves for me.

Tonari no Emily wrote: "Finished my re-read already! I feel like this is definitely an improvement from the first two.. It's not so much a mystery as Toby getting into her usual deadly trouble...

Damn, I really should ha..."

I did half my re-read yesterday, then slept early...

Toby isn't so much a detective, as a one-woman wrecking crew that gets aimed at problems and single-mindedly overcomes them (with alot of bloodshed, usually her own)...

Super secret spoiler response chat: (view spoiler)[and deeper (view spoiler)[

The most suspicious things in the early book, are how strong Toby's affinity to blood magic is, compared to Quinten and anyone else, and how many people know her mother, Amandine the Liar... I can't remember which book finally makes clear Amandine is Firstborn and Last of the First...

I knew Maeve came up now, because the Ride is linked to her death/disappearance from Faerie...

The most suspicious thing about Stacy early on, and for a long time, is how strong and varied her kids magic is...

I don't think Marcia gets too suspicious until book 8, when she isn't affected by Eira's magic the same way as the rest of Goldengreen... (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Finished my re-read... had one more thought for Emily's super secret spoilers (view spoiler)[buried deeper (view spoiler)[there was one suspicious moment with Marcia, when she recognized Toby as a kid so easily... (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Timelord Iain wrote: "Finished my re-read... had one more thought for Emily's super secret spoilers [spoilers removed]"

Ah yes, and (view spoiler)[ Toby was offended by it xD. More spoilers (view spoiler)[ Re Stacy (view spoiler)[ And just how many kids she and Mitch had, when fae aren't supposed to be super fertile.. (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Tonari no Emily wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "Finished my re-read... had one more thought for Emily's super secret spoilers [spoilers removed]"

Ah yes, and [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[For good reason... other than Marcia, most other people that recognized kid Toby KNEW kid Toby... the ones that didn't like Raj, had never seen her as a kid...

Stacy: (view spoiler)[ on early readthroughs, I just kinda attributed that to the human side of changeling blood working in their favor...

I wonder if the fact that so many Firstborn & Kings/Queens of Faerie live in California will ever be discussed... it feels like there has to be a magical explanation to that, other than plot convenience... (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

I'm in chapter 4 and already liking this one better than the first two books.

Chapter 2 (view spoiler)[ I have to wonder why in the world she would open the door? And then let it in. She only realized it was a fetch after she opened the door and let it in. Tobi does come off a bit dumb sometimes, which is my main problem with her as a character. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 3 (view spoiler)[I feel so bad for Stacy and Mitch. I hope the kids end up being ok. (hide spoiler)]

I have read until chapter 8 and it's getting very interesting
(view spoiler)[tybalt is being weird since Toby woke up the dead, so maybe it's her powers he is researching

Things got interesting with the kidnapping and the while hunt thing. It's one of my favourite things about faeries, how there is always a hunt of some type. Toby is now going against the big guns compared to the other books so I hope it all ends well and none of the kids die

How does luna know so much about blind Michael? It has something to do with parents so maybe she either lost a sibling or a friend to the hunt or Michael is her father? I am probably way off with the last one

What rules does luideag talk about? Rules of faerie? And how do they know? Its in the firstborns blood, their parents told them or is there a rulebook? (hide spoiler)]

Tammie (view spoiler)[I know! I never really answer my door without looking trough the peephole and I am not the one who everyone wants to kill (hide spoiler)]

Paula wrote: "I have read until chapter 8 and it's getting very interesting..."

Good eye, Paula: (view spoiler)[Toby's blood magic is definitely suspicious... it's been pointed out a number of times now how weird it is that Toby, a changeling, has better luck with blood magic than Quentin and other pureblood Daoine Sidhe...

I forget what rules you refer 2 with the Luideag, but there are 2 sets of rules, I think...

The rules set down by Oberon, when he locked away the deeper realms of Faerie and disappeared with the Queens Maeve & Titania... and the rules the Luideag is trapped under (can't lie and has to fulfill the request of anyone willing to pay her price... which is why she tries to set her prices high when she doesn't want to fulfill a request... it's the only way she can try and turn them away... that and be the monster in the closet they're scared of...)

Some of that might be a mild spoiler, but most of it is mentioned frequently, I think... (hide spoiler)]

Paula wrote: "Tammie [spoilers removed]"

I answer the door without looking on occasion... especially if expecting someone... but I'm also generally imposing standing in a door...

But, half the time, my door is already open anyway, to let some cool air in...

Jumping in a week late yay!

First chapter--really happy to see Troll Taxi guy! I like Troll Taxi guy, and would like to learn more of him.

Also Chapter 1 (view spoiler)[I really really hope Toby gets Tybalt drunk and Karaoking by the end of the series... I knew I liked Danny the Troll...

The domestic scene at her friend's kid's birthday is really sweet... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2 Have I mentioned how much I hate it when characters blame themselves for things that aren't their fault? (view spoiler)[And seriously, shouldn't Sylvester have had resources better than Toby for getting his daughter & wife back? Though I guess Sylvester doesn't blame Toby, his wife doesn't blame Toby, and I guess Rasel probably blames anybody and everybody just to spread the pain around, and self-blame also seems to be a Toby thing, but still I want to shake her.

Hoping this setup means we'll get some more clarity into that whole disappearance thing this book though...

Feel kinda bad for Connor. But not bad enough to justify cheating..

Well, obviously if Toby dies this book it doesn't stick, so what's up with the Fetch? Interesting concept... I wouldn't mind sitting down for a chat with a double... (hide spoiler)]

@Paula--re: Door--was thinking the same thing. (view spoiler)[I mean, the last time she opened the door didn't it end up being a doppelganger who tried to kill her? Why doesn't she have a peephole? And a bat probably isn't going to be that much use against most things out to kill her... but then again, neither is
a door probably... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 3 (view spoiler)[things piling up now... Fetch, Connor, now missing kids, maybe add the Barghests in from the opening...

I'm a little surprised Toby didn't want to tell Mitch & Stacey what she found and liked to Stacey... I can see that she was a little hysterical, but how are they supposed to look for their kids if they don't have all the facts? I wouldn't want all of their eggs to be in one Toby basket... and I'm surprised one of the parents didn't ask to accompany Toby on her rounds, both to try to wake Karen and in search of the kids... (hide spoiler)]

Very happy to be back in this world...

Chapter 4 Typical cat--(view spoiler)[when you don't want to be bothered, he's up in your face. When you actually want to pet him, he disappears...

All these kids disappearing... Pied Piper much? Or like the three sisters in Hocus Pocus...

Also the smell of candle wax makes me think of that nursery rhyme: How many miles to Babylon? Three score miles and ten. Can I get there by candle-light? Yes, and back again.

And the "go ask the moon"--well isn't Sylvester's wife's name Luna? Also had a disappearance of her own, but adult and supposedly known suspect...? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 5 Just want to remember this for later: (view spoiler)[Lily's tea leaves: Three loops, like arched gateways; a wilted rose; a tall, slim column tipped with a triangular smear. A candle (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7 Luna...see? (view spoiler)[“The hills are on fire, Sylvester. The candles are going out.” Literal candles, or candles representing people, children?

Hah, finally Toby. I'm not really enjoying how dense you seem to be... for a P.I. I rather expect better...

Also summons Fetches, Rides, and collects children of all sorts... Rides makes me think of the Wild Hunt, but not children, nor candles...

Ok, and they just said Blind Michael and Wild Hunt. So that's a quick answer.

And more dense Toby... when she said "ask the darkness" and that Blind Michael was firstborn, the first thing I thought of was the Luideag. And I'm a newbie to this series! I'd really like Toby to actually know more than me soon. For a change. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 8, clarifications--(view spoiler)[The first time you met the Luideag, Toby, she was in your checkout line.... the second time was for questions.

And I like the book two version of the post-question bit better: The Luidaeg didn’t come to kill me, and after a week had passed, I decided to stop waiting. I showed up on her doorstep with bagels and told her she could kill me if she wanted to. She laughed and called me an idiot, and we played chess for six hours. I still think she’ll kill me someday.

This book has the lame version: I showed up on her doorstep a month afterward, and she demanded to know where the hell I’d been. I started visiting again. We played lots of chess, and I didn’t ask for anything. I’d almost stopped flinching every time she raised her voice.

Also thinking--Why doesn't Blind Michael just go visit a biker bar? I'm sure he'd get lots of volunteers... ah, but no, they have to be his... shame. (hide spoiler)]

@Paula--I like all your theories!

Through Chapter 11--(view spoiler)[I like the dreamlike quality of the trip by candlelight...

At one point Toby says something like "Good thing he's not a god. I can't handle gods." And I'm thinking--oooh, series foreshadowing? Y'all did say McGuire feels like she needs to one-up Dresden...

I was almost expecting the challenge to be the "hold on to me while I shape-change" one I've seen in different fae-based books... (hide spoiler)]

You're driving me crazy, Nirkatze... I swear your knowledge keeps solving story elements super early, and I know you're going to find out you're right later on... not always... but sometimes... like (view spoiler)[you listed the Babylon rhyme earlier than the Luideag did, right? (hide spoiler)]

Timelord Iain wrote: "You're driving me crazy, Nirkatze... I swear your knowledge keeps solving story elements super early, and I know you're going to find out you're right later on... not always... but sometimes... lik..."

It's easier with the eyebook versions--(view spoiler)[There's a big bloppin' candle at the head of every chapter. Just like book one had roses, and book two had a circuit board. The candle had to be significant... I actually remember the Babylon rhyme from Stardust... (hide spoiler)]

Up to Chapter 14--(view spoiler)[I think I'm going to be eternally annoyed at Toby's desire to do everything herself always... she didn't even remember that the Luideag told her to accept any help offered along the way!

I wonder why T&Q don't try holding hands around the candle.

The bit about Luna not being who we thought is interesting... wondering how that plays into the Big Stuff. And is her father then Blind Michael, or someone else? Acacia is a nice name though--it's my favorite type of wood.

I also can't see Toby just taking "her" children and leaving the others to their fate... (and yup by end of chapter, proves true) this has to be about more than just winning the game. How will they take Blind Michael down, or bind him? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 15--blood becoming more obvious--(view spoiler)[Toby even stating straight out that Quentin should've sensed/smelled things stronger/faster than she does... and probably dismissing it because he's untrained...

Easy to ignore in the last book, because the blood was dead and there was nothing to find... and she didn't let Q try with the two-souled person... (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 17--(view spoiler)[Glad Toby got the kids out. Though there still has to be a catch or two--Blind Michael still has more nights to ride, yes? And nothing saying that once Toby has gotten them free, he can't just go get them again... is there?

Oh, and of course, there's still loose-end Karen, and the "she" who she wanted Toby to find... Interesting that the dream-kitsune was also a rose-child, just like Luna... or maybe Luna stole that Kitsune's skin?

And well, by taking the kids who weren't hers, does that mean Toby broke the rules, and opened up more options for BM to move?

I wonder if Toby can like, mortgage her Fetch out to him to "let" him die...?

I love the Luideag's reaction to everything... Toby doesn't even realize that she's all upset because her only friend is going to die, and she doesn't get to decide when... If the Luideag owned Toby's death, then she wouldn't have to worry about another person leaving her... (hide spoiler)]

The Luideag is the best... one of my fave characters...

Chapter 18 (view spoiler)[Ah, BM must be Luna's father then. Slip of the tongue on "my"... and then she tells us straight out a few lines later. Ah well. BUT she said "I think" so it is possible he isn't...

Very interesting about how her parents used to be happy, and that the sun used to shine... and how Luna escaped... is BM always riding in search of his own children, so he steals others to fill that void? Perhaps Toby can work off some sort of reuniony thing... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 19 I rather like May. I hope she sticks around. She reminds me of (view spoiler)[Miles & Mark, or Harry & Thomas. I like the "sibling you didn't know you had" storyline... wouldn't mind seeing her stick around... couch surfing at Toby's...

Also... why are they taking the kids home? If they could be taken once, can't they be taken twice? Like, they already know where to find them!

I'd finally met an enemy bigger than I was. I thought they were all bigger than you??? (hide spoiler)]

May (view spoiler)[ May Daye... I love the pun :D

Anyway... there's alot more to May, and the origin of Fetches, and the origins of May in particular, that will be explored later on... I love the mythology that Seanan McGuire builds with this series... everything has an explanation...

Here's a spoilery question you probably never thought of, regarding the Night Haunts: (view spoiler)[Toby met the Night Haunts in the previous book... and they came to her as all the recently deceased Fae from Toby's life (because Fae deaths are rare, among other reasons)... Dare, Devin, etc... why wasn't Evening Winterrose among them?... (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Timelord Iain wrote: "May May Daye... I love the pun :D

Anyway..."

Through Chapter 26 now...

Oh my, now I'm thinking of all the spoilery possibilities... though no, I hadn't thought that specific one... (view spoiler)[Dare & Devin were her most recent deaths, I just didn't think it reached back that far... and she wasn't present for Winterrose's... but if that's the case, and with the whole thing about Luna taking the kitsune's body, and the night-haunts not getting it... not to mention the whole thing with Fetches... May proves it is possible to have a fetch without a body (yet)--and who summons them?

Also, there's been like, no talk of that box since book 1... (hide spoiler)]

Also, we've met October. Book 2 had a January and an April. Now we have a May... when will we meet June, July, August... etc?

Nirkatze wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "May May Daye... I love the pun :D

Anyway..."

Through Chapter 26 now...

Oh my, now I'm thinking of all the spoilery possibilities... though no, I hadn't thought that specifi..."

Night Haunts: this is explained/revealed later on in the series, but isn't a particularly important spoiler (I don't think): (view spoiler)[Night Haunts take the bodies because they lack bodies of their own... they get the bodies/memories... so the bodies persist as long in death as they did in life (so quite a long time, for the full-blooded Fae)... so Toby might not see all the changelings she's lost, but she's likely to see the full-blood Fae... (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "May May Daye... I love the pun :D

Anyway..."

Through Chapter 26 now...

Oh my, now I'm thinking of all the spoilery possibilities... though no, I hadn't thought that specifi..."

May: (view spoiler)[Fetches are portents of death to come, not deaths already happened... they're kinda like psychopomps, here to shepherd the soul into the afterlife... (hide spoiler)]

Hope Chest: (view spoiler)[definitely a thing for later... it's actually half the reason I sent Seanan a question in the mail years ago... I'd need to look it up to remind myself what I asked, honestly... whatever it was, I know it would be spoilery for a few more books still... (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "May May Daye... I love the pun :D

Anyway..."

Through Chapter 26 now...

Oh my, now I'm thinking of all the spoilery possibilities... though no, I hadn't thought that specifi..."

Months: (view spoiler)[September was the sister of Sylvester Torquill I think... and one of Tybalts lovers in Londonium... this is explored in some of the short stories set hundreds of years ago... she's January's mother...

June/July/August: you'll meet one of those later :D

Still leaves 6 months unused... (hide spoiler)]

re; Fetches--(view spoiler)[ah, I was thinking it was related to the body the Night Haunts left behind after taking the dead Fae... (hide spoiler)] ty for clarification!

Finished! I went through to look for spoiler tags to open... and only found super secret spoilery ones that I shouldn't open except on reread. Boo!

I liked this one the most so far--I can see what y'all were saying about just making it to book 3. I really liked the arc of the story, the way it opened up doors for the future and cast a different eye on the past. I was also very happy when (view spoiler)[the whole Tam Lin thing came full circle, and it DID have the hold-on-while-I-change game! Was not expecting Toby to have to go back THREE times to finish up all business, but am glad BM ended up dead... also a gem Luideag gave her there, about how to kill Firstborn... (hide spoiler)]

So, are Titania, Maeve, Oberon etc considered gods?

Oh! And I was SUPER happy (view spoiler)[that May is couch surfing with Toby now. Totally a Miles/Mark situation! Only with less angst. And money. And clones. Well, maybe. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "re; Fetches--[spoilers removed] ty for clarification!

Finished! I went through to look for spoiler tags to open... and only found super secret spoilery ones that I shouldn't open except on reread...."

Oberon/Titania/Maeve: (view spoiler)[they may as well be, I'd say... their origins kinda reminds me of Adam and 2x Eve... or God and 2x Goddess... but what details exists of that in the series is a LONG way off... (hide spoiler)]

Up to chapter 18 now. Nirkatze, I like all your theories. I do wish that Toby was smarter. I roll my eyes sometimes at how slow she is to catch onto things. I'm enjoying other characters more, especially the Luideag.

Yeah, the Luideag totally stars this book! I was also thinking, every time Toby runs away from things--(view spoiler)[no! Get captured! You'll find them faster! LOL (hide spoiler)]

@Iain--I can see that... I was also thinking about how sad that was, that it seemed there were only three people around at that time... what if you didn't like the two other people? Their relationship choices were pretty slim... and big no-no to the children too...

Nirkatze wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "You're driving me crazy, Nirkatze... I swear your knowledge keeps solving story elements super early, and I know you're going to find out you're right later on... not always....."

Ohhh I forgot that rhyme was in Stardust too!

Nirkatze wrote: "re; Fetches--[spoilers removed] ty for clarification!

Finished! I went through to look for spoiler tags to open... and only found super secret spoilery ones that I shouldn't open except on reread...."

Yay glad you liked this one! And sorry I have only super secret spoilers... Sometimes I'm just afraid to say anything spoilery on this book in case I accidentally spoil something else :D

Hahaha also Blind Michael is definitely not the first thing that comes to mind when I see BM... But re ending (view spoiler)[ The whole three times thing kind of plays into the importance of doing/saying things three times with the fae... You'll see that with binding, oaths, and whatnot. (hide spoiler)]

Ooooh, nice point about threes... and I agree on BM, but I was just too lazy to type it all out. ^_~ Hey if it made someone smile... I mean, he kind of was a piece of BM....

I am up to Ch. 6 and loving it so far. I am absolutely in love with the Sea Witch, if I haven't mentioned that yet!!!

@Iain, are you signed up for McGuire's patreon? I keep getting declined and I thought it was my card, but I was able to try someone else's Patreon and the payment went through...

Huh, I made a new Patreon and it worked... Not sure what happened there.

I'm glad that got figured out, Emily... that was very strange indeed.

finished! My favourite so far
(view spoiler)[I really enjoy this neverland place and how it all tied to children, children's stories and all of that. My only complain is the anticlimactic ending I guess. Blind Michael was defeated too quickly for my liking

But I liked how everyone was there for her to get her out of the hunt. And May the fetch, that was a surprise for sure. Maybe she is a representation of her being dead in the future or so nearly dead and then revive or something? Just like she has to die because of the vow to the luideag. By the way, she is amazing and a great friend to Toby telling her how she kinda wants to die, shame about the future killing honestly

Quentin...poor guy had to grow up really fast by faery standards

I was surprisingly right about luna being blind Michele's daughter, though I didn't suspected she lead Toby to her death. I want to explore that angle, if Toby is still mistrustful of her or if she understands it (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze
(view spoiler)[ I have never heard that nursery rhyme. Not very surprising seeing its in English but it's great you got things so very early on

it would be amazing if there were gods in the future. Poor Toby doesn't stand a change though

yep, Toby and blood seems to be closer than any pure blooded fae of the daohne or whatever they are called (hide spoiler)]

@Paula--I also loved all the neverland/child aspects! And have all the same questions about May... (view spoiler)[and interesting connection, tying her to Toby's nascent death-wish... (hide spoiler)]

re: Quentin--(view spoiler)[Poor guy... I think it dropped in the book that he is actually only like, 15 years old! I couldn't remember if his age had been mentioned or if he had just been described as young, but young for Fae can mean anything, right? On the other hand... he's getting a lot of first-hand experience... I bet he'll be a badass by the end of the series... (hide spoiler)]

re: Luna--(view spoiler)[I don't think Toby feels betrayed by Luna, and rather understands her... also I definitely get the feeling that Toby doesn't know how to be properly mistrustful and unforgiving... she seems to forgive everyone, even the former-friend who keeps trying to kill her--she's only unwilling to forgive herself... (hide spoiler)]

I also realized that we haven't had nary a peep from the major ruling Fae lady (princess? queen?) in the area since she kicked Toby out in book one, and Toby reported to Sylvester that she was seriously off her rocker...

Fingers crossed for gods!

Nirkatze wrote: "@Paula--I also loved all the neverland/child aspects! And have all the same questions about May... [spoilers removed]

re: Quentin--[spoilers removed]

re: Luna--[spoilers removed]

I also realized..."

Quentin (super mild spoiler, then speculation that could be considered a spoiler)(view spoiler)[becomes Toby's squire soon... I keep waiting for him to become a Knight Errant, but also don't want to see him disappear from the series for awhile... altho, the way this series goes, I can see him showing up at Toby's door bloody, and being around for the duration of a Quest, then back to Errantry :D (hide spoiler)]

re: Quentin... why not pull a Peabody & Eve ala Imitation in Death... (view spoiler)[send him off to take the Knight Errant test, then have him stick around as partner... haven't folks been telling Toby she needs to bring more backup? (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze
(view spoiler)[yeah, I don't think quentins age was mentioned before but by faery standards 15 is almost a baby, and childhood extends to a few centuries so yeah, poor him. And agreed about him being a badass in the future. Being a Knight errant as you guys say would be beneficial for Toby, she needs more backup and less to feel she has to save everyone by herself, or with tybalt because he is the only one she feels safe with

yeah, I forgot how forgiving Toby is with everyone (hide spoiler)]

re:Quentin: reasons… you’ll learn Quentin’s backstory, sooner or later :D

@Iain--LOL

@Paula--I totally agree--(view spoiler)[ and nice insight on Tybalt--I totally feel he's being set up as long-term love-interest.... (hide spoiler)]