Support for Indie Authors discussion

I have a question for my fellow writers. It really bothers me when I tell people that I'm writing a mystery series and they say, "That's a nice hobby." I feel it's so condescending and dismissive. For me, writing is like breathing. I have to get the story down on paper. I was wondering if any of you feel the same way.

I would try not to overthink it or dwell on it. With each decade that passes, people seem less and less capable of understanding that something that isn't important to them could be important to someone else.

Just smile, stay positive, and enjoy doing what you love :)

I'm with you, Daniella, and I admit it would be tough for me to bite my tongue. When I quit my job to be a full time writer, people made comments like, "Oh it must be nice to stay home and do nothing." To which I replied, "Must be nice to work a measley eight hours a day with a guarenteed paycheck."
Perhaps you should refer to their careers as hobbies and see how they like it. ;) (kidding!!!)

I try not to let it annoy me. I just grit my teeth and smile.

One more thing I wanted to add but I hit post too quickly. I would like to know how many of the people who say "nice hobby" have written a book. I've completed the first three novels in my mystery series for which I have a signed contract with Black Opal Books. I'm currently working on the fourth book. I've written 114 pages thus far.

I wish I could quit my job and write full time too.

It's not easy. I was lucky enough to get myself into a situation where I had no debt, I live in a low cost of living area of the country, and being a minimalist helps. That being said, the minute my car needs replacing or some other financial tragedy strikes, I'm back to being a desk jockey.

I also write full time now. But that said it is because I´m in a good situation with no debt, no kids who need college funds or diapers. I have the ability to spend the time even though I have a lot less money.
I feel very fortunate that I´m able to do this.

Something that frustrates me is when people ask how much you have published and how much you make on it instead of asking about the writing itself.

It's not so much having to work. It's a question of trying to squeeze in the time to write. I can only write in the evenings and on the weekend. Some days I can only write a paragraph and that's frustrating because I so little time to begin with. Other days I can write a couple of pages. However, I would never stop writing. It's just something I have to do.

Daniella wrote: "I feel it's so condescending and dismissive. I was wondering if any of you feel the same way."

Sort of, but it doesn't bother me as much as it did in the past. After all, I don't really understand why some people do the things they do, whether a hobby or a profession. From the perspective of some, it must seem weird that we sit around for hours listening to our imaginary friends talk and writing their stories down.

I feel the same, Daniella, in terms of having a compulsion to write, but I'm lucky in that no one has ever belittled my efforts by labeling them a hobby. My response would probably be to smile and say, "it keeps me out of trouble," or something light. I don't expect people to understand how hard it can be on many levels, just as I may nor understand something about their lives that others dismiss. Thankfully I have enough writer friends that I can always find someone to chat with who gets it. If that's missing from your life, look for a writers' group or critique partner.

I have always written, it's just always been a part of my life. The people I work with are really awesome in that they are amazed that I'm published and brag about me whenever they can. I have yet to get the "hobby" response except from maybe my husband and he's not a reader so I just kind of ignore what he says because he doesn't read anyways so he's not who I'm trying to reach with my writing anyways. People who see it as just a hobby just don't understand what it is that you do!

It's nice to see that I'm not alone. I'm lucky because my family and friends are extremely supportive of my writing. As for the people who give me the "nice hobby" comment, I just grit my teeth and smile. There's not much else to do. However, I'm very excited because in December I signed a three-book contract with Black Opal Books for the first novels in my mystery series. The first book will come out later this year. Currently, I'm working on the fourth book in the series. I've written 114 pages thus far.

Victoria, I sent out hundreds of queries to agents and received many rejections. Many didn't bother responding at all. I still don't have an agent. However, Black Opal Books didn't require that I have one. Perhaps, you should look to smaller presses that don't require agents.

This is why I use the term indie instead of self-published. People are quick to assume self-published means bad, yet will shell out for 'artisian' products, shun big box retailers, and pride themselves on listening to indie music and watching indie films. And yes, I will affect a snobby tone and tell people that they "probably haven't heard of" the authors I read. It works! :)

Writing to most people is a mystery. They don't know the process. Also, they often assume since you're at home that you are not really "working."

I found a sign that helped the people in my life understand how writing is serious work to me -- I put it up on the door of my writing area: Writer at Work. Now, they don't expect me to drop everything and visit with them when they come by, because I'm "at work."

I sometimes have the opposite reaction. Rather than ask about projects, I get blank stares when I mention I'm a writer. It's almost as if it's not registering in their minds, or they're comprehending it as me saying, "you know, the sky's blue."

Of course, there was the one time while working at Home Depot. I had an hour lunch break and would bring in notebooks so I could write while eating. One day, a coworker came up to me and asked if I was doing school work. I told her that I was writing a novel. She got a confused look on her face and asked me, with all seriousness, why? My only reaction was to quote Asimov: "I write for the same reason I breathe - because if I didn't, I would die."

Daniella wrote: "I have a question for my fellow writers. It really bothers me when I tell people that I'm writing a mystery series and they say, "That's a nice hobby." I feel it's so condescending and dismissive. ..."

I do write as a hobby but I love it and that's enough for me. That said, I have a feature film writing credit. That was a million to one!

I so agree Ann, so many people have such limited interest with anything other than themselves, so I rarely talk about my writing. I mostly keep it to myself. I'm also afraid people will just laugh at me & not take it serious....

Daniella wrote: "I have a question for my fellow writers. It really bothers me when I tell people that I'm writing a mystery series and they say, "That's a nice hobby." I feel it's so condescending and dismissive. ..."
How would anybody know? Its not condescending to me.

Dianne wrote: "Writing to most people is a mystery. They don't know the process. Also, they often assume since you're at home that you are not really "working."

I found a sign that helped the people in my life ..."
I didn't know writing was the hardest job I ever had until I finally finished and published my book. It took me five years and hundreds of rewrites. Everything I write I believe is brilliant until I read it the next day and realize its terrible. I must have rewritten my 3 page preface 500 times. But people tell me its brilliant now.

Wow, so many posts and points hit home really hard with me here. Anyone that considers it a hobby probably doesn't read very much either.

My major point of frustrations are "oh you've got the easy part finished" or "do you think you'll actually finish it?" I was literally within the final 5 chapters of the first draft when one of my friends asked me "Do you think you'll ever actually write a novel?" when I dared bring it up to them.

But in the end, those types of comments just drove me to work harder, faster and be more focused on my work. And a lot of that frustration got sunk into the book, making it richer. Not that it is great literature, but I do feel it is a better book than if I hadn't been challenged in such ways.

I wrote my first novel in 4 months, so you know it sucks. :D

But its still very difficult to make sure your ducks are in a row, and everything is fleshed out and made as plausible as possible. I don't know anyone personally that could do it, otherwise I wouldn't be here seeking company with like-minded souls.

Susan wrote: "I so agree Ann, so many people have such limited interest with anything other than themselves, so I rarely talk about my writing. I mostly keep it to myself. I'm also afraid people will just laugh..."

The modern world does seem more self-absorbed than the ones in the past that we can read about. Personally I always try to remember just how heavily subjective writing (and reading literature) is. I remind myself of this every time I start to get worried that people won't like things or that people don't get why I devote so much time to locking myself away in a room and writing... that's my subjective choice, my opinion on what is important. Others will see things differently and it's not my role to convince them. If they ever sneer, then I'd just take it as a sign of insecurity. Perhaps they know deep down inside they have nothing uniquely creative that they can do? After all, I wouldn't sneer at someone who locks themselves away with a guitar and tries to write original music or paint original pieces. Keep on smiling and working :)

"Uh ha, Julie's scribbling!" is what I get from my husband. I can't say I've given up work to write full time as I'm retired but I am an 'indie' writer with my fifth self published book coming out next month. I sell in the hundreds, not the thousands, but I do have people asking when the next novel is coming out so I can't say people aren't supportive.Each book takes from 12 to 24 months to complete, especially as it is all done on the living room table!( pack up at meal times)If I didn't have my writing I would be at a complete loss. Good luck to all, Julie.

When you get to my age you just smile and think what a d**k. I enjoy writing and have found quite a few who enjoy reading what I put out.
My advice: live to please yourself and cherish those of like mind but respect the interests of others. (Many times their musings are great story material)
Write on M L Carr

Michael wrote: "I sometimes have the opposite reaction. Rather than ask about projects, I get blank stares when I mention I'm a writer. It's almost as if it's not registering in their minds, or they're comprehendi..."

James: tell them you're writing a book on how to murder people. That should do it!

Thank you all for your opinions. I'm so happy to see that I'm not alone. It's always nice exchanging thoughts and ideas with my fellow writers. I agree that most people do not understand the work it takes into writing a novel. In addition, as many of you noted, it's shocking to see that so many people do not read these days. I can't imagine a day without reading a book. It is especially sad to see that the "millennial" generation is only interested in texting and "social media." By reading, one develops an appreciation of the written word. Reading expands the imagination and helps one to develop a rich vocabulary. I think all of us can agree that to be writer, one must be a reader first.

To be fair, worldwide literacy rates are at an all time high in both percentage and overall numbers, and if it weren't for texting and social media, those people would probably never read at all. The benefit of it is debatable however, since grammar and spelling are soooooo atrocious most of the time.

Jeffrey wrote: "Michael wrote: "I sometimes have the opposite reaction. Rather than ask about projects, I get blank stares when I mention I'm a writer. It's almost as if it's not registering in their minds, or the..."

Jeffrey, I like your comment about telling people you're writing a book on murdering people. On that note, I'm actually writing a mystery series. I'm very excited because in December I signed a three-book contract with Black Opal Books for the first three novels, which are completed. The first book will come out later this year. I'll let you know the exact date. I'm currently working on the fourth book in the series. I've written 119 pages thus far. It was a long struggle to get to this stage. However, everyone kept telling that most important thing was to keep writing. That's exactly what I did. I pushed through all the frustration and self-doubt, and many, many rejections and here I am at last.

I didn't mean to denigrate anyone. However, I've noticed that people who are always texting and surfing the Internet tend to have shorter attention spans precisely because everything is so expedient. Many don't look you in the eye when you are talking to them because they are always looking down at their phones. Also, many can't carry on a conversation for the same reason. If they answer you, it's in monosyllables. In addition, since texts must be short they've lost the notion of spelling and grammar. That's the frustrating thing for me.

Yes, change is necessary for the world to progress, but it's sad what is lost along the way.

I don't look down on anyone. That's why conversing with others is so important: to exchange ideas; solicit opinions; and consider another point of view that you hadn't even thought about. A text message makes that difficult.

I'm not blaming anyone. Texting just seems to be more prevalent among millennials, but their parents and even their grandparents do it as well. Millennials were exposed to texting and the Internet since they were little, so it was only natural for them to gravitate towards the medium. For me, my first inclination would be to pick up the phone and call a friend before I thought about sending a text. I think it's more of a personal connection. But if people find texting engaging, then they should carry on with what makes them comfortable.

BB. wrote: "I'm interested to know what generation you think were the most skilled at grammar and spelling? Lots of women were still discouraged from reading and going to school in the 50s and 60s."

Maybe that happened in your area, but I grew up in the '50s and I remember that most girls loved to go to school, and most boys hated it. Boys tended to drop out as soon as they could. As far as discouraging girls from going to school, where I lived school was required. Children of both sexes had to go.

Here in NY, school has always been required for children of both sexes.

Daniella wrote: "I didn't mean to denigrate anyone. However, I've noticed..."

Hi Daniella,

I think it is important that when you're going to make a generalization about a group of people, especially a negative one, back it up with some concrete evidence, not just what you've noticed. People tend to notice what they want to notice.

Might I suggest that if you are correct and the "millennial" generation does not read, but is more interested in texting, using social media, etc. and if, indeed, they are less concerned with grammar and punctuation - ask yourself why has this happened? Isn't it on the shoulders of older generations for not properly educating the younger generation? Is it not on my / your / our generation for not encouraging younger people to put their cell phones down and read? Realize that for every child that is mesmerized by his or her phone, there is probably a parent or grandparent that is supplying them with phones, DVDs, computers, etc. and not books.

That said, I personally do not see any generation as more educated than another, nor do I really see younger generations less interested in reading. Young Adult books are selling well. In fact, Time magazine reported that Young Adult sales are increasing while Adult sales are decreasing.

http://time.com/3636601/young-adult-b...

Of course, some adults prefer Young Adult material.

All I know is, I may be dabbling in the wrong genres.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that it's older generations fault for not telling kids to put down their cellphones and to stop watching TV. It was an expedient for them. So you are right. I'm extremely fortunate that my parents instilled in me and my sister a love of reading since we were little. I always had to have a book to read. I would go crazy if I wasn't reading something. We also always sat down as a family for dinner and discussed the days events, what had happened in school and any other topics that came up in the conversation.

That is a point. The most important thing is that people READ.

Okay, as a member of Gen-X who is old enough to be the mother of both VM and BB, I have to say that the exponential rate with which technology has grown to be an integral part of our lives is a godsend for some of us. I am more social and connected now than I ever was in the pre-digital age. I was and still am an introvert, but now, you wouldn't know that because texting and social media has given me and other folks like me a voice. A voice that can be carefully trimmed, edited, and obsessed over until it sounds the way we want it, rather than the stammering mutter or straight up inability to speak that tends to happen in face to face social situations.
I too am constantly hunched over my phone. Usually, I am reading. I've always been an avid reader, but ever since first downloading the Kindle app years ago, I read more than ever before because I've always got a book with me.
Beyond that, small screens and headphones are *meant* to be a deterrant in public. I spent my youth walking and riding busses. I was also female. This meant that I was often subjected to unwanted attention, either in the form of catcalls or some creep on the bus who just wouldn't shut up. I know that this is still a problem, but if girls today have a means to block out at least some of that unwanted attention, then sign me up to petition for the issuance of a cell phone to all girls everywhere.
Oddly, however, it seems that baby boomers get this. My generation, the ones that grew up right alongside the computer age, are the ones to shun it. I really don't understand. Was it that we were forced to read too much dystopian fiction for school or are we too nostalgic and selfish for our own good?

V.M. wrote: "The assertion that the older generation is at fault for not encouraging the millenials to "put down their cell phones and stop watching TV" is flawed."

I hope you understand where I was coming from. I do not believe it is a bad thing for people to be using cell phones, social media, etc. I was merely saying that if it could be demonstrated that it is bad, then older generations should be careful where we cast the blame. But, again, I don't think it's a bad thing that people use social media or text (unless they are driving - I do have a problem with that). I have actually seen some studies that show that people that text actually have better communications skills and are better at grammar and punctuation. I wish I could find it again.

Christina wrote: "I was and still am an introvert, but now, you wouldn't know that because texting and social media has given me and other folks like me a voice. A voice that can be carefully trimmed, edited, and obsessed over until it sounds the way we want it, rather than the stammering mutter or straight up inability to speak that tends to happen in face to face social situations."

I may have mentioned this in another thread, but this is partly why I became a writer. I do not speak well, until I am comfortable with people. I do not say much and when I do it is brief. I don't always look people in the eye. I know that when I talk I will sound like an idiot, so I hate to do it. I am getting better, but it is a problem I dealt with for a long, long time. Writing helps give me a clear voice, where my real speaking voice doesn't.

V.M. wrote: "I understand better now Wayne, thank you for clarifying. I don't know if such a study could even be conducted. Can you imagine the double-blind on that? haha"

I don't know how it could be conducted, either. And, I don't see it as any more necessary than older generations trying to determine if listening to the gramophone or going to talkies was detrimental in some way.

Daniella wrote: "I have a question for my fellow writers. It really bothers me when I tell people that I'm writing a mystery series and they say, "That's a nice hobby." I feel it's so condescending and dismissive. ..."

Daniella, This response is very common among those who do not understand writing as the art that it is or the ministry you have been called to fulfill. Be encouraged and make sure you promote your writing as Valuable especially in your own mind.

Diana, thanks. When I get the "nice hobby" comment, I just grit my teeth and smile. There's no point in responding. Fortunately, my family and friends have always been extremely supportive of my writing.

V.M. wrote: "Awesome! *high-fives*
New-Mom-Christina, can we have ponies?"

I'm an author, kids, not Daddy Warbucks. ;)

I am Miranda - atotal reading and writing nerd - My latest book Moonianna is about faeries, the paranormal, gothic, sirens and the old gods and goddesses of Greek and Nordic myth. Am looking for like minded magic people to share my obsession and give me feedback on my book. And I give feedback on theirs.

That's Miranda Moondawn - cos that's the world I come from, the place where the MOON has her rising or Dawn. The feary night which is mens day. And vice versa.

Daniella wrote: "I have a question for my fellow writers. It really bothers me when I tell people that I'm writing a mystery series and they say, "That's a nice hobby." I feel it's so condescending and dismissive. ..."

Daniella, the one that I get from many people when I tell them I write westerns, is 'Oh, I love westerns.' Then, in conversation they confess they haven't read a western but instead like the last couple western movies.

I think there are a lot of sweeping generational comments in this thread. My teenage daughter loves to read good old-fashioned print books and my retired father is almost never without his iphone in his hand! :-)

I think it is meant to sound condescending. People have a limited number of ways to respond to "I am a writer."
"My that's a nice hobby."
"Who wrote it for you?" (answer "me, who reads it for you?"
"Do I know you?"
"What's your real job?"
"I wrote a book once. It's in my attic."
Or the faintly hoped for ellusive and oft reported but never seen "Really, how wonderful. What it is it about?"
Writing is solitary. It is done, at least in part, to make something RIGHT about a chaotic and wrong world.
Expect no gratuities. Take money ...leave ideas, emotions and unease in your wake.