Ultimate Popsugar Reading Challenge discussion

This is the September Monthly Group Read discussion for Longbourn by Jo Baker. This book can be used to fulfill prompt #14 A modern retelling of a classic. Since September is typically a time for returning to school and reading "classics"! This is a retelling of Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen from the servants' point of view.

Ashley Marie is the "vivacious volunteer" who will guide this discussion! THANK YOU, ASHLEY MARIE!

Every person reads at a different pace, so please use spoiler tags if you are sharing any plot-related surprises. This allows others to decide whether this information might reveal surprising information they have not yet read.

It can also be helpful to other readers if you post the location within the book noting your progress (chapter and/or page number) with the spoiler. That way, if someone else has read that far they can go ahead and open the spoiler, but if not, they'll know to skip it for now and return later...

TO ADD SPOILER TAGS:
Use this for spoilers, just remove the spaces:
< spoiler > write your spoiler here and close with < / spoiler >

Posts here should only be contributions to discussion about this book.

I recently read this book, just after finishing a read-along of P&P with a blog. I loved it! Such a thoughtful retelling, and enjoyable to read in its own right as well. I think it is much more meaningful if you are very familiar with the plot points of P&P.

Hello hello! I'm excited to dive into this but, as previously mentioned in the weekly check-in thread, I'll be out of town this weekend and so won't get to the audiobook until Tuesday.

Some pre-reading questions to whet our appetites:

- Have you read anything by Jo Baker before?

- With this being a Pride and Prejudice retelling, it bears asking: Have you read Pride and Prejudice, or anything else by Jane Austen? What are your feelings about her work?

- This is touted specifically as a belowstairs Pride and Prejudice retelling, which automatically puts me in mind of Downton Abbey, the more recent Gilded Age, and Gosford Park - so, Julian Fellowes’s work. Are you familiar with any of that material? Does it make you more or less interested to read this?

- I looked over some of the questions Jo Baker has answered on her GR author page and this point stood out: I love Austen's work - I am a massive, daydreaming fan of her stuff - I love the wish-fulfilment and the wit and the brilliantly structured, totally satisfying stories. But coming from working class roots, I struggle [to] see myself in her characters' shoes. Writing Longbourn was, more than anything else, an attempt to 'locate' myself within Austen's world in a way that felt true to me. So the class issue was important, but the book would never have been written if I hadn't been a total nerd for Austen's work.
This seems like an excellent reminder that representation matters across the board, and we all want to see ourselves in the stories we consume. Have you read any other retellings featuring stronger representation of a marginalized group?

Pre-reading thoughts:

- Have you read anything by Jo Baker before?
I haven't! I think this is the only book of hers on my TBR so far, but I'm excited!

- With this being a Pride and Prejudice retelling, it bears asking: Have you read Pride and Prejudice, or anything else by Jane Austen? What are your feelings about her work?
I reread P&P a few years ago, for the first time since high school, and was surprised by how much I loved it. I'd liked it that first time, but that was around the time of the 2005 film release, and my best friend was OBSESSED. This time around, I enjoyed the wit of the writing much more. Since that reread, I've also worked my way through Sense and Sensibility, Persuasion, and Northanger Abbey - just Mansfield Park and Emma left to go! I love Austen's commentary, she's very sharp.

- This is touted specifically as a belowstairs Pride and Prejudice retelling, which automatically puts me in mind of Downton Abbey, the more recent Gilded Age, and Gosford Park - so, Julian Fellowes’s work. Are you familiar with any of that material? Does it make you more or less interested to read this?
I still haven't watched Downton, but I enjoyed the first season of Gilded Age, and I'm always down for a gritty spin on a known story. Quite awhile ago, I read Mary Reilly by Valerie Martin, which seems to be similar to Longbourn except that it retells Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde (another of my favorites!). It was good but forgettable, and I'm hoping Longbourn fares better.

This seems like an excellent reminder that representation matters across the board, and we all want to see ourselves in the stories we consume. Have you read any other retellings featuring stronger representation of a marginalized group?
Although I tend to be leery of modern retellings, I enjoyed Ibi Zoboi's Pride. And otherwise I've been enjoying the Feiwel & Friends "Remixed Classics" series - classic retellings by marginalized authors. So Many Beginnings: A Little Women Remix is my favorite so far!

Have you read anything by Jo Baker before?
Nope.

Have you read Pride and Prejudice, or anything else by Jane Austen? What are your feelings about her work?
I've read the main 6 (I haven't read Lady Susan / The Watsons / Sanditon yet) and I reread at least one of them every year. I also usually end up reading a retelling of one of them every year. Persuasion's my favorite.

This is touted specifically as a belowstairs Pride and Prejudice retelling, which automatically puts me in mind of Downton Abbey, the more recent Gilded Age, and Gosford Park - so, Julian Fellowes’s work. Are you familiar with any of that material? Does it make you more or less interested to read this?
I love Downton Abbey & Gosford Park, but I couldn't get into Gilded Age. I also watched the Upstairs Downstairs remake from a few years ago, but it wasn't as good. And yes, in a way it makes me more interested, but mostly I'm reading it because it's a Austen retelling.

This seems like an excellent reminder that representation matters across the board, and we all want to see ourselves in the stories we consume. Have you read any other retellings featuring stronger representation of a marginalized group?
Sonali Dev did retellings for 4 of the main 6 Austen books Pride, Prejudice, and Other Flavors, Recipe for Persuasion, Incense and Sensibility & The Emma Project that were excelent, although be aware it touches on some tough subjects. Ayesha at Last, also a P&P retelling was also great. And for non Austen retellings - The Magic Fish manages to retell the Cinderella story 3 times, from 3 perspectives.

Kendra wrote: "I've read the main 6 (I haven't read Lady Susan / The Watsons / Sanditon yet) and I reread at least one of them every year. I also usually end up reading a retelling of one of them every year. Persuasion's my favorite."

I just read Persuasion last year and liked it a lot! Excited for the eventual reread.

I have already read Longbourn, earlier this summer, and I just LOVED it. I thought it a really fresh retelling, different and well-conceived, well-written, and a very unique perspective. It also I think can stand on its own even if you have not or never read P & P. It’s complete, though of course if you have read P & P, it adds a lot of depth.
I’ll try not to drop spoilers but I see no reason I can’t answer the pre-reading questions as they are quite general and well-thought out. Well done, Ashley-Marie!

Have you read anything by Jo Baker before?
Nope, first and only, but won’t be my last. I’ve added one at least if not 2 of her later publications to my TBR.

With this being a Pride and Prejudice retelling, it bears asking: Have you read Pride and Prejudice, or anything else by Jane Austen? What are your feelings about her work?
I’ve read all of Austen – and reread about half of them. P & P and Persuasion I have probably re-read 3 or 4 times. I’m not even sure if P & P is the first one I read. My personal favorite is Persuasion which I read at a significant point in my life. I was 23 and in the middle of reading it when my mother passed away from a long period of ill-health. It was not unexpected but still rather sudden. The story of Anne and her selfish family and lost love, and her long internal dialogues because everyone around her was an idiot so she had no one else to talk to just was the perfect antidote to what was happening in my own life – and very different from my own life! Northanger Abbey is my least favorite – I consider it silly and irritating – so likely will never re-read it. I really liked Mansfield Park which was the last of her work I read, probably when I was about 30. I plan to reread that in the near future. I recently re-read Sense & Sensibility and it did not hold up – actually dropped in my personal rankings. Emma Thompson did too good a job with the movie version!
Austen’s work is in so many ways quite timeless because she writes of family, love, human nature with great wit and astutely made commentary. For example, how witty is the description of Anne’s father in Persuasion and his vanity and obsession with his appearance to the point he has an excess number of looking glasses scattered throughout the manor house, so many in fact that the tenant mentions late in the story how he had to remove an excessive amount of them and place them in storage because he kept encountering himself too often. How can you not laugh.

This is touted specifically as a below stairs Pride and Prejudice retelling, which automatically puts me in mind of Downton Abbey, the more recent Gilded Age, and Gosford Park - so, Julian Fellowes’s work. Are you familiar with any of that material? Does it make you more or less interested to read this?

I’m really going to date myself here. I watched and loved the ORIGINAL Upstairs Downstairs. If you have not seen the original series, stream it. It is so very good and was quite original at the time. Gosford Park is one of my favorite movies, and the richness of life below stairs makes it sing. I watched all of Downton Abbey but found the last 2 or 3 seasons full of historic inconsistencies and the plots weak – it looked like Fellowes was phoning it in. Because of professional work demands, I missed out on Gilded Age – had no time for TV and in fact still don’t watch much TV. Did seeing those shows make me more interested in reading Longbourn? I’m sure they played a role. I’ll be honest thought – the green of the cover and the image on it drew me to the book. I am often seduced by a cover.

I looked over some of the questions Jo Baker has answered on her GR author page and this point stood out: …This seems like an excellent reminder that representation matters across the board, and we all want to see ourselves in the stories we consume. Have you read any other retellings featuring stronger representation of a marginalized group?
I definitely have though I cannot think of any off hand. As I said at the beginning, I do believe this brought a really fresh take on a retelling, setting it apart from most. Any time you bring a completely new perspective from a different character’s eyes and experiences in a familiar literary world, you get something special. Think of what Jasper Fforde did with Jane Eyre and other works in his Thursday Next mystery series.
I want to mention that I read somewhere that Jo Baker actually has ancestors who were in service – 2 aunts I think or great aunts - and thus it’s a very personal story for her to tell, a way of honoring her family history.

Have you read anything by Jo Baker before?
No, this is the only things I've read by her.

Have you read Pride and Prejudice, or anything else by Jane Austen? What are your feelings about her work? Yes, I've read 5 of her main works, with the main one remaining being Persuasion. I enjoy her books and I think Northanger Abbey might be my favorite of the bunch. Emma being my least favorite.

Are you familiar with any of that material? Does it make you more or less interested to read this? I loved Downton Abbey and between that and the P&P retelling, I definitely wanted to pick this book up when I read it back in 2019.

Have you read any other retellings featuring stronger representation of a marginalized group?
hmmm, I'll have to really think about this, nothing is coming to mind at the moment.

Theresa wrote: "I want to mention that I read somewhere that Jo Baker actually has ancestors who were in service – 2 aunts I think or great aunts - and thus it’s a very personal story for her to tell, a way of honoring her family history."

I love this! I'm a genealogy nerd in my spare time and I dream of writing a story in honor of my ancestral history one day too.

I'm through Part One today! Some thoughts:

*my spoilers aren't necessarily spoilers as much as expanded thoughts/remarks, but I use spoiler tags liberally so adding them in here felt like normalcy for me

ch1: I love this opening! (view spoiler)[Early mornings have a calming atmosphere about them, when the rest of the world is still asleep and the fog still lies heavy on the ground, and I think Baker taps into it well here. (hide spoiler)]

I like that Sarah dreams of never washing anyone’s linen again. The inclusion of the fact that women’s monthlies all sync up when they live together long enough, so naturally they all get their periods at the same time (and what a hassle that is for her to clean up) was unexpected but makes perfect sense.

ch5: James, the new servant, has my attention especially thanks to picking up some of the slack for Sarah and the other maids. I can't help but mentally compare him to Ryan Phillippe's Henry Denton, from Gosford - interested to see what his story is.

ch7: the note about Sarah (view spoiler)[purposely burning the girls’ hair if provoked feels like a Little Women reference, haha (hide spoiler)]

I still love Lizzie and Jane the most of the Bennet sisters.

ch9: The militia are in town by now and Jane is off to Netherfield

ch10: The foreboding atmosphere (view spoiler)[around the militia yard is intense! I also like how easily Baker shifts between the characters’ POVs - pretty sure we've seen things through Sarah, James, and Mrs Hill's eyes at various points. (hide spoiler)]

I’ve read this book in 2018. I enjoyed it a lot. I wrote on GR: ‘Behind the scenes of Pride and Prejudice there’s another Pride and Prejudice. Lovely ‘reading snack’ for P&P-lovers.’ I will jump in every now and then to read your opinions and maybe join the discussion.

Have you read anything by Jo Baker before?
Nope

With this being a Pride and Prejudice retelling, it bears asking: Have you read Pride and Prejudice, or anything else by Jane Austen? What are your feelings about her work?
Of course! I even re-read it after I re-watched the 1995 mini-series, ‘the’ one with Colin Firth (duhuh). I had to adjust myself to 19th century writing, but after I did, I loved the wit and the glimps of a little bit early feminism. I also read Emma, Sense and Sensibility and Mansfield Park (loved that one!).

This is touted specifically as a belowstairs Pride and Prejudice retelling, which automatically puts me in mind of Downton Abbey, the more recent Gilded Age, and Gosford Park - so, Julian Fellowes’s work. Are you familiar with any of that material? Does it make you more or less interested to read this?
Downton Abbey got me through last winter when my lungs overreacted on everything after covid hit me last September. And I’ve read Belgravia, loved that one too. I read Longbourn because it is a P&P-retelling, just as Pemberley was.

This seems like an excellent reminder that representation matters across the board, and we all want to see ourselves in the stories we consume. Have you read any other retellings featuring stronger representation of a marginalized group?
No, not specifically. I don't read that much retellings. I read some Bible retellings. They did not feature a marginalized group (the Bible covers that well enough). The Bible retellings have a different perspective: the writer tells the familiar stories through the eyes of someone in the margins of the story. Like the Egyptian princess who raised Moses as her child. It was refreshing to read the well-known stories through new eyes. And the message resonated as well.

I've also finished part 1. I'm really enjoying how each chapter opens with a quote from P&P that relates to what is going on with the servants.

Kendra wrote: "I've also finished part 1. I'm really enjoying how each chapter opens with a quote from P&P that relates to what is going on with the servants."

I love that too!

Thoughts on part 2:

The scene where Sarah walked into town (view spoiler)[in the rain to get the girls’ shoe roses stuck with me, poor thing. I know I’ve been that person, showing up somewhere soaking wet from the rain when everyone else is perfectly dry, but coupling it with her thankless job is so much. (hide spoiler)]

I like Ptolemy and I like James and I do not like (view spoiler)[love triangles. Pick someone, Sarah!
Cut to drunk kissing – not sure that’s what I meant but okay! (hide spoiler)]

I enjoyed seeing (view spoiler)[the Mr Collins proposal from belowstairs, although I flat-out refuse to sympathize with him no matter what Jo Baker tells me (that’s what rereads are for) (hide spoiler)]

Ugggghhhh (view spoiler)[Wickham (hide spoiler)]

ch10 James (view spoiler)[calling Wickham out for the coward comment was AMAZING (hide spoiler)]

ch10 is this the first mention of (view spoiler)[Darcy? I suppose that makes sense, as the Netherfield ball just happened earlier in this section and we haven’t spent much time in Lizzie’s company (hide spoiler)]

UGGHHHH (view spoiler)[WICKHAM (hide spoiler)]

ch13 I love (view spoiler)[Sarah’s letter to James (hide spoiler)]

ch14 UGGGGHHH (view spoiler)[MORE WICKHAM (hide spoiler)]

Ashley Marie wrote: "I'm through Part One today! Some thoughts:

*my spoilers aren't necessarily spoilers as much as expanded thoughts/remarks, but I use spoiler tags liberally so adding them in here felt like normalcy..."

That entire first chapter or two which detail the daily work - and it was WORK - that the staff did really set the world for this story as separate from P & P and frankly any regency era fiction read.

The LAUNDRY! There's a scene to watch for later between the housekeeper and Mrs. B involving a silk dress....

Harmke wrote: "I’ve read this book in 2018. I enjoyed it a lot. I wrote on GR: ‘Behind the scenes of Pride and Prejudice there’s another Pride and Prejudice. Lovely ‘reading snack’ for P&P-lovers.’ I will jump in..."

Happy to see another Mansfield Park fan!

Ashley Marie wrote: "Thoughts on part 2:

The scene where Sarah walked into town [spoilers removed]

I like Ptolemy and I like James and I do not like love triangles. Pick someone, Sarah!
Cut to drunk kissing – not su..."

Your comments about P. 2 made me laugh! So funny! But so right!

As for a few things:

Ch. 10 - yes that is -- remember most of the scenes in P & P involving that character occurred nowhere near Longbourn and it was likely little conversation was overheard that happened just between Jane and Elizabeth.

I'd say it isn't really about finding love but about Sarah's coming of age and learning the difference between a crush and love. Sarah has as much an emotional journey here - her own pride and prejudice journey - as Elizabeth does in P&P.

Theresa wrote: "Ch. 10 - yes that is -- remember most of the scenes in P & P involving that character occurred nowhere near Longbourn and it was likely little conversation was overheard that happened just between Jane and Elizabeth."

Thanks Theresa! This was my conclusion as well.

I had to go back and re-listen to the end of ch14 this morning - things hit different when it's early and quiet and you're alone in the office. The confrontation (view spoiler)[between James and Wickham and James's subsequent flight from Longbourn, and then Sarah and Mrs Hill's realization in the morning, is so beautifully written (hide spoiler)].

I'll be lagging behind those of you who are already reading along, as I've got another long weekend starting this afternoon, but I'll be back on Monday with my thoughts on vol 3!

Ashley Marie wrote: "I had to go back and re-listen to the end of ch14 this morning - things hit different when it's early and quiet and you're alone in the office. The confrontation [spoilers removed].

I'll be laggin..."

Agree on the spoiler!

Lots of clues are scattered throughout that give you knowledge of future revelations, actions, and exchanges. Story is very similar to a mystery - and there are 'mysteries' at the center of the plot. I know reading it I highlighted as I went as things struck me.

Do others find them too? One is, though subtle, that conversation between Mr. B and the housekeeper that Sarah tried to eavesdrop on at very beginning, and her thoughts around it.

Baker shows real skill in the seeding of clues.

A couple of things that we've sort of touched on already but think it would be fun to discuss further with all -- don't worry not something that requires having read far into the book! Ashley Marie - I don't mean to step on your toes - not my intention, but I just want to get some thoughts out there and realized they would make good discussions.

First: who here has an ancestor who worked in service - a maid, housekeeper, groundskeeper - not necessarily living in.

At first I thought not - or more accurately didn't really know. But then I suddenly remembered that my parents met when my mother was working as a maid for a doctor in my home town -- friends took her to a local grange meeting to which my father belonged (grange is an organization in the agricultural community (my father was a dairy farmer) which was social and political - sort of a union feel. Before that job she was a maid in a vacation hotel at Wyalusing Rocks PA -- very rural area but has a place nearby with lovely geographical features and French Azylum - the place that was to be the safe haven for French King and Queen and family during the French Revolution - they were captured before getting away.

Now a maid in a doctor's house in my home town isn't quite all that fancy, but the doctor definitely was one of the wealthiest in the town and his house quite impressive (it's still there) located on the river front.

Second question: the description of the work and the long days outlined from the first chapter, and the toll it takes on the servants is pretty intense. What was your initial and ongoing reaction? Initially I was almost shocked -- though not really because of course I'm perfectly aware of all of it. It's like I was one of those characters to whom all that work and toil and care was expected and invisible but then something happened to rip my blinders off. Then, as the chapters passed, it was just there -- no real reaction.

It did however make me consider the P & P characters a bit differently - (view spoiler)[ Lizzie and her sharing of books, all the women giving the maids and housekeeper their no longer wanted clothes not even considering how useless they are to their lives. (hide spoiler)]

- Have you read anything by Jo Baker before?
I have not.

- With this being a Pride and Prejudice retelling, it bears asking: Have you read Pride and Prejudice, or anything else by Jane Austen? What are your feelings about her work?
I am just now rereading P&P after 50+ years! And before I tackle Longbourn. I have read Sense and Sensibility (5 stars), Emma (5 stars), and Northanger Abbey (4 stars). Her work is more diverse than I would have thought. I felt Northanger Abbey was a diversion from the other two I've read. I admit I typically get bored a bit here and there with these books recounting the Victorian/Regency elitists whose females typically only concern themselves with gossip and manipulation...but I find Austen's writing to be engaging.

- This is touted specifically as a belowstairs Pride and Prejudice retelling, which automatically puts me in mind of Downton Abbey, the more recent Gilded Age, and Gosford Park - so, Julian Fellowes’s work. Are you familiar with any of that material? Does it make you more or less interested to read this?
I am not familiar with anything you've mentioned, but I am ALWAYS very interested to read of/about characters who do not represent the privileged class. Perhaps because I am not of the US 'privileged class'! :)

- I looked over some of the questions Jo Baker has answered on her GR author page and this point stood out: I love Austen's work - I am a massive, daydreaming fan of her stuff - I love the wish-fulfilment and the wit and the brilliantly structured, totally satisfying stories. But coming from working class roots, I struggle [to] see myself in her characters' shoes. Writing Longbourn was, more than anything else, an attempt to 'locate' myself within Austen's world in a way that felt true to me. So the class issue was important, but the book would never have been written if I hadn't been a total nerd for Austen's work.
This seems like an excellent reminder that representation matters across the board, and we all want to see ourselves in the stories we consume. Have you read any other retellings featuring stronger representation of a marginalized group?
Ugh. I feel as if I have, but cannot recall titles right now. Wide Sargasso Sea probably qualifies. I read it 7 years ago and didn't realize at that time I had actually never read Jane Eyre as a teen! So now that I recently read Jane Eyre I intend to reread WSS now for a much better understanding and/or connection to the story arc.

There is, IMO, much to be said for characters exhibiting familiar actions, behaviors, etc., and the reader's ability to identify with them, I think. However, I very much enjoy books that I don't necessarily connect with in that way. I'm thinking of Sloane in Andrea Penrose's Wrexford and Sloane series which I absolutely adore. I connect with her very much, but simply on the basis of her personality characteristics, more than anything.

Theresa wrote: "First: who here has an ancestor who worked in service - a maid, housekeeper, groundskeeper - not necessarily living in."

My Grandma was a governess in an actual castle in Ireland before she got married and moved to Canada. It always makes me think when I watch Downton Abbey or a show of that ilk that that would have been her life for a while.

And as to the second question - I work in cleaning/janitorial supply, so it made me thankful to be working now, when we have vacuums, running (hot) water, etc.

Kendra wrote: "Theresa wrote: "First: who here has an ancestor who worked in service - a maid, housekeeper, groundskeeper - not necessarily living in."

My Grandma was a governess in an actual castle in Ireland b..."

And rubber and work gloves! I have learned to wear them a lot when doing cleaning or even sorting files for shredding. I have very dry skin and get cracks and bleeding very fast if I don't. I felt for Sarah and her hands.

Yeah. Proper hand lotion is a must have in my family.

Theresa wrote: "A couple of things that we've sort of touched on already but think it would be fun to discuss further with all -- don't worry not something that requires having read far into the book! Ashley Marie..."

Not at all, Theresa! Thanks for sharing!

Theresa wrote: "First: who here has an ancestor who worked in service - a maid, housekeeper, groundskeeper - not necessarily living"

Most of my maternal ancestors were farmers or housewives, but I've found a few who worked as maids/servants/housekeepers on my dad's side, mostly Scots-Irish immigrants.

Theresa wrote: "Second question: the description of the work and the long days outlined from the first chapter, and the toll it takes on the servants is pretty intense. What was your initial and ongoing reaction?"

It honestly reminds me of a blog post Nicola Griffith wrote detailing her writing process for Hild, and how she didn't want to write a book centered around "women's work" at all; but in that process she found out that 6th-7th century women spent 65% of their time in the production of textiles. With that in mind, it becomes clear how all-encompassing the work is and, while not exactly the same as 18th- or 19th-century service work, I think it's a fair comparison. Not unlike 21st-century me trying to find time to fit in housework amid a full-time job and keeping up with life otherwise, in a more cavalier light.

It hammers home the point that it's truly exhausting, day in and day out, being the one to handle all the chores and the errands and the laundry and so forth, especially next to the upper-class family/employers who barely think twice about any of it and are left to their immense amounts of leisure time.

Vol 3 notes:

- I loved the (view spoiler)[dive into James's history, and subsequently Mrs Hill & Mr Bennet. (hide spoiler)] That depth wasn't something I was expecting and I was pleased with the choice to include it.

- Elizabeth's decision to (view spoiler)[take Sarah with her to Pemberley (hide spoiler)] had some interesting results. Were any of you surprised by Sarah's decision and/or the reactions of the other characters?

Kendra wrote: "Theresa wrote: "First: who here has an ancestor who worked in service - a maid, housekeeper, groundskeeper - not necessarily living in."

My Grandma was a governess in an actual castle in Ireland b..."

Agreed, Kendra! I've worked in several custodial/janitorial positions and I can easily see why church sextons (janitors) in particular used to live on or near the premises - churches are much more than just Sunday services and there's always plenty that needs to be done. Grateful for hot water, vacuums, industrial dishwashers, and carpet scrubbers.

Theresa wrote: "I'd say it isn't really about finding love but about Sarah's coming of age and learning the difference between a crush and love."

I'd argue that Sarah never really had a crush on Tol, she was just excited about anybody wanting her (When her actual crush James didn't seem to notice her) and about the possibility of a life that was closer to the life she remembered her parents having.

Kendra wrote: "Theresa wrote: "I'd say it isn't really about finding love but about Sarah's coming of age and learning the difference between a crush and love."

I'd argue that Sarah never really had a crush on T..."

Yes, and also it is tied to her youthful dreams of travel and adventure - to see the world or at least London and more of England. Tol is the possibility of those dreams, even the embodiment - which like all such youthful dreams - fantastical, magical, and perfect, not reflective of the real places and lives. Sarah is learning that the grass is not always greener znd most dreams to come true need a dose of realism added. Tol is part of that.

Ashley Marie wrote: "Vol 3 notes:

- I loved the [spoilers removed] That depth wasn't something I was expecting and I was pleased with the choice to include it.

- Elizabeth's decision to [spoilers removed] had some in..."

To your first spoiler - one of my favorite plot developments, and the seeds planted so early with what Sarah was eavesdropping on and reacting to in the very beginning about the new hire. It also contributed to the more sympathetic view of 'silly' Mrs. B we get.

I want to comment on something you said last week - about refusing to find Mr. Collins sympathetic. I don't that is the author's intention, but I also don't she stayed true to what Mr. C's charactter is in Austen. I read him as a complete boor and bore who has just enough native intelligence, to master the art of toadying and a large enough ego to sustain an inflated sense of sel-worth. He is not mean or intentionally cruel or abusive. Charlotte actually is the only character in P&P to see him for what he is and thus she is the perfect wife for him. (view spoiler)[An aside - Mrs. H's worries about ffuture mistress and semi-relief at Charlotte's engagement but hasteni g tommake and deliver her favorite tarts to remind her of how good she found the staff as a child (hide spoiler)] - something I never once considered!

BTW the only IMHO accurate P&P portrayal of Mr. Collins was in the 1980 BBC series with David Rintoul as Darcy and Elizabeth Garvie as Elizabeth. Stream it - it is a superb adaptation of P&P.
6
No one else comes close.

Well, I finished. I still don't know how I feel about the book - some parts were amazing and some left me feeling disappointed. I still don't think the revelation about Mr. Bennet works with who he was in P&P. I know it would have fit with what happened at the time, but of all the Austen characters, he is one of the least likely to have acted in that way IMO.

- Have you read anything by Jo Baker before? No

- With this being a Pride and Prejudice retelling, it bears asking: Have you read Pride and Prejudice, or anything else by Jane Austen? What are your feelings about her work? I've read Pride and Prejudice a number of times, and having finished Longbourn, am rereading it again.

- This is touted specifically as a below stairs Pride and Prejudice retelling, which automatically puts me in mind of Downton Abbey, the more recent Gilded Age, and Gosford Park - so, Julian Fellowes’s work. Are you familiar with any of that material? Does it make you more or less interested to read this? I'm a fan of Downton Abbey can't read Longbourn or P & P without picturing Mary Crawley as Elizabeth Bennett.

I'm impressed with the amount of research Jo Baker put into this and very happy that I never had to work under such conditions.

I liked the detail the author went into in creating the character of James, including his background.

In rereading P & P I noticed that one of the maids names is Sally, so I suppose that is Sarah and perhaps the diminutive is used by the Bennet family. At any rate, I'm surprised that there's not more of an explanation of the name difference.

One thing I didn't like was the way Mr B was portrayed. I kind of liked him in P & P and thought that he didn't show to his best advantage in Longbourn.

Interesting reactions to Mr. B's portrayal -- I sort of agree but then not really. The last time I re-read P & P - a few years ago - I found Austen's portrayal of him much sharper and more negative than I ever had in the past. We - or at least I - am always overwhelmed with the shallow, irritating Mrs. B and her stupidity (yes, she has always seemed quite stupid to me) and that Mr. B is the only sane balanced parent - partly because of his fondness for Lizzie above all his daughters. This last reading - 3 or 4 years ago - had me pick up on just how selfish Austen is showing him to be.

Thus reading this retelling, because of the portrayal of Mr. B and Mrs. H relationship, and Baker adding the references to the war against Napoleon creating a shortage of marriageable men, and the info about the source of the Bingley fortune, and such, has added a level of periof verisimilitude that is absent from Austen's work, which is actually quite parochial - world events have no impact in P & P. In fact I hazard to guess that the reason they do not reference events outside the immediate settings is because Austen was writing for a contemporary audience who knew all this. She was not writing for future readers.

The reference to the shortage of men due to war was very early in Longbourn and I remember it making me sit up and think 'yes!' and then how that added to the tension and urgency of having 5 daughters to marry off in order to provide security for them given that Longbourn is entailed. It adds to the understanding of Mrs. B's upset over Lizzie turning down Mr. C. Austen's contemporary audiences would have instinctively and immediately known that and not needed it to be mentioned. But even someone like me who reads a lot of regency era history, NF, romances, mysteries and general fiction, did not really have in mind at any time when reading P & P.

Long way to say that Baker's insertion of the broader realities of the time in her retelling will add to future readings of P & P.

Plus Baker is telling her own story, not the exact story of P & P.

Theresa wrote: "Interesting reactions to Mr. B's portrayal -- I sort of agree but then not really. The last time I re-read P & P - a few years ago - I found Austen's portrayal of him much sharper and more negative..."
You're right, of course. He is extremely selfish and would probably be happy living on his own. It's his humor and tolerance of Mrs B that I like. Mrs B, Mr Collins and Lady Catherine are such horrible people. I also wonder at Elizabeth's lack of understanding of her friend marrying Mr Collins: Miss Long stated her reasons clearly. There weren't many options for women and her choice goes to underscore Mrs B's anxiety.

I reread P&P just before reading this and truly adored this book! I thought Baker's retelling was brilliant and so very interesting. I admit I tend to get bored with books like P&P. I have to keep shaking my head and reminding myself these people indeed had NO JOBS!! Unless they're clergy, which brings a whole 'nother dimension to them for me...and not in a positive way. It was all about finding a rich person to sponsor you, whether in marriage or as a local clergy, etc. totally different world. I was thrilled at the end to realize that (view spoiler)[Mrs. H would finally get to have her family, new grandchild included, but was admittedly angry that Mr. B would also have that experience. I despised Mr. B and Mrs. B, but I guess they were products of their time... (hide spoiler)]