Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for The Wars of Light and Shadow (4) – Fugitive Prince: First Book of the Alliance of Light (The Wars of Light and Shadow series) by Janny Wurts starting on December 15, 2023. amended


Happy Reading!

The opening to the third arc of the series, Alliance of Light, where things ramp up considerably and features some of the best books in the series. This is just the start of a ride like no other! (I know some of this is sounding like buzzwords and all, but I am trying to avoid spoilers but suffice to say, arc 3 is amazing.

Thanks Yanique! :)

And I agree @chibipoe - this ARC is amazing.

Just grabbing my spot :)

Just a few days til we kick off! Who's here for it? :D

I'll be running about a week late, but looking forward to it! I wonder who has finished book 1 yet...

Good morning everyone! We kick off today and I am here for all your questions! One thing to keep in mind is this kicks off a new arc within the series and for those who have finished Warhost of Vastmark, we're going to see the repercussions of that in depth!

In victory, despair. In defeat, pride.

We see the beginnings in the wrapup of Warhost, but we'll see it in full swing here. The Vastmark campaign impacted everyone and now, let's pull the curtain back and see how our various characters were marked by it and if they find a way forward... Strap in because this may be a rough ride!

Starting! Earlier than I thought I'd be, yay!

I'm really enjoying all of the artwork--my physical copy and ebook both have different covers, and I ended up going down the rabbit hole of all of Wurts-sensei's artwork. I found her sketchbook page, and it makes me want to try and pay attention more to the settings, to note which sketch goes with which scenes...

Chapter 1, through Three Warnings (view spoiler)[Love getting another glimpse of Elaira! Very curious about the baby and the prophecy... sounds like dying in fire would be the most fortuitous end would be death by fire... poor kid... but I'm guessing the landbound death will be more likely, with Arithon alive but betrayed...

The council scene with Lysaer... I still want to punch his face in... but I find it easier to bear seeing others (the emissary, and the s'Brydion) also share my feelings... I *am* glad that Lysaer made that move to encourage headhunters toward capture away from killing, though I still cannot forgive him for being so blind to the evils of the people he allies with. And I find it very telling that he was like "oh, here is your jury"--and it is all people with hatred of clansmen. There is no way they would ever vote anything but death. And then he turns around and just as hypocritically was like "oh, no, I'm going to decide your fate." He reminds me of the worst aspects of politicians.

Rather hoping that Arithon'll be able to capture some of those slave-crewed boats and set people free... but also worried that the captains will have orders to slaughter the slaves if they are in danger of being captured... sounds like the kind of hypocritical act Lysaer would take. Or that his captains would take for him. Glad Diegan is dead.

Lysaer's pronouncement to wait until he has an heir to take up the crown is curious. He won't stay in his wife's company and he won't put her aside, or I assume, take a concubine. Is he planning on just waiting until she's dead? I forget if he knows he's got 500 years to look forward to or not... Airthon knows, right?

Lysaer's new emblem of a sunwheel on gold--that sounds like the chapter heading symbols.

Havish's decree to deny any slave-galleys from their harbor is a nice move.

The last paragraph, vision of Arithon on a stage of execution, could go toward that whole betrayal thing... (hide spoiler)]

You say this is going to be a rough ride--can you tell us which book things start looking up?

This book in particular, there are some other moments that are rough, but in an overall state, Fugitive Prince can be tough. But consider the previous book and the things that happened. One important fact is the author doesn't like writing huge events that the characters just waltz past without being affected by it. Once you see Arithon, you may understand. :) Think about what he orchestrated to defeat Lysaer and how you'd deal with that. :)

Yeah, starting to see those ripples not just outside but inside too... I remember @Chibipoe saying that there would be consequences and major effects...

Indeed! And, being the start of an arc, FP both builds on what has come before and sets the stage going forward. There's a LOT and things may not happen as you expect. :)

Through Chapter 2 Three Seasons (view spoiler)[Got that glimpse of Arithon mentioned. About what I was expecting, though it'll be interesting to see how far-reaching the effects are...

Was really hoping Arithon'd go on that quest to find free lands and the Paravians... but will he be able to make himself leave when the clans are in such a horrid situation?

Seriously, these fantasy worlds are in great need of counselors and therapists.

The revelation of the Fellowship's circumvention of the Koriani Amethyst's powers was quite fun! I'm looking forward to that confrontation...

Though why exactly do the Koriani think they have a "right" to meddle? Aren't all the people in this land living here by the grace of the Paravians and their guardians, the Fellowship? Why do they think their "rights" supersede that? Townsfolk & Lysaer too, while it comes to that. That's what's been bugging me so much about the Koriani--they only focus on their own goals and don't look to see how their actions might affect the bigger picture. Also, the whole thing about "oh, the Fellowship are corrupt, they protect a criminal" recalls a line earlier in the same chapter, I think... Jieret thinking how Arithon had essentially been condemned by Lysaer's word, with no trial. Grrrr.

I do want Arithon to confide in his cathaedin. He should have asked that why. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Through Chapter 2 Three Seasons Got that glimpse of Arithon mentioned. About what I was expecting, though it'll be interesting to see how far-reaching the effects are...

Was really hoping Arithon'..."

Well, regarding the other factions such as the Townsfolk and the Koriani: (view spoiler)[It's truly a matter of priorities. The Koriani's priorities are entirely different than what the Fellowship are focused on and they assume that the vanishing of the Paravians means that those terms are no longer valid. (Additionally, there are some other factors that go back to humanity's arrival on Athera. (hide spoiler)] There are such revelations in this book. :D

Just finished Chapter 3! I think I got most of those revelations you were mentioning right there... if I'd just waited a chapter my own questions would've been answered... (view spoiler)[but first off, Lysaer's actions toward Talith make me really mad. It reminds me of how men tend to brush off women's (very righteous) anger as "oh, you're getting emotional dear, why don't you just lie down" as though women don't have a right to be angry. And the ending! How he's spreading lies about her being demon-touched due to her time spent with Arithon! And locking her up! I'm surprised he doesn't just have her killed outright. I wish she would escape, and join the other side.

The look at Lysaer's aura and personal analysis pretty much just cements my dislike. It's his own personal arrogance that put him on this path as much as the Mistwraith's curse. He can't handle being wrong. He can't admit fault or apologize unless it is part of a scheme to sway others. He's such a huge entitled hypocrite! GRRR! Well, Wurts-sensei did a great job making me a character to hate. I do love that the meeting with the Brotherhood pretty much tossed all of his wrongdoings in his face... and he just was like, nope. But it was nice to see that others feel the same way I do!

I'm worried for Ath's brotherhood people though...

And the Koriani coming in and basically doing the same thing! Seriously! Arrogance! I love that the Brotherhood was basically like "who appointed you judge? We actually were appointed judges, and we don't judge that!" Another hypocrite! When she was like "okay, if you say you didn't change the earth, then you can give us something to trick the earth now to make our crystal work again" GRRR!!! Why should humans be worth more? Not more than--more than anything! This isn't even their land!

Lots of interesting tidbits dropped in this section, but I wasn't paying too much attention, in my ire. Bit about Traithe's injury maybe being healable if they can heal the mist-wraiths, for one.

Oh, and I didn't even notice at the end of the last chapter that the conversation Arithon had with Carrick probably involved him signing on with Lysaer... maybe to sabotage, maybe to have an in to capture the ships or save the enslaved... something. Looking forward to seeing. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Just finished Chapter 3! I think I got most of those revelations you were mentioning right there... if I'd just waited a chapter my own questions would've been answered... but first off, Lysaer's a..."

There is a LOT over the first few chapters. It's all great, because you get so many useful tidbits as things move along, but also, as I said, a LOT. (view spoiler)[ Arithon being just.. utterly broken with the weight of Vastmark gnawing at him. 30k lives and ultimately for nothing. and the Seven's tactic to buy time for their own activities don't help for the amount of time wasted.

Lysaer is just... viciously flawed and unwilling to step beyond those flaws. The ramifications of his being cast out will stretch across the rest of the arc. :D

Re: The Koriani. They and the townsfolk really are exemplar of humanity as a whole. Let's face it, we're still far from a more enlightened perspective as a whole. See a thing, take a thing. The end. (hide spoiler)]

Yeah. I keep thinking on how a lot of the aspects that get me so angry about the people in the book mirror the aspects that get me mad about politics. The inability of people to see beyond their own noses, or to look at how their immediate selfishness is going to cause huge problems...

Was thinking more about the Koriani, and one thing especially that made me mad was (view spoiler)[her reaction to her servant being healed!! Not "oh, how wonderful" or even "oh my, he's going to need adjusting, I should help" or even "they should have asked him first" but "now I have to fire him, how dare they meddle!" And she dares to think of herself as having even humanity's best interests in mind?

Really glad to hear that Lysaer being cast out has ramifications. I'm REALLY looking forward to bad stuff happening to him. I'd really love it if he could recognize that bad stuff is his own arrogant fault. (hide spoiler)]

On that front, keep reading. You'll see plenty of stuff happening to him, be it bad or good. I will be mum though! :D

Sorry I haven't been around the past few days! Finals, and holidays, getting vaccinated, have all degraded my thought-power, though I've still been reading. Usually I like to type up thoughts at the end of each section/chapter, but haven't been in good place to do so until now. Sorry!

Up through Chapter 10 Turning Points--(view spoiler)[I've been seeing a lot of what you've been talking about, @Chibipoe, from the effects on Arithon and the flaws of Lysaer, the priorities of the townspeople v. clansmen becoming much clearer, and the Koriani...

I'm glad for the deeper investigation into the original Charter of the land, and how the Townspeople have been ignoring and pushing against it. It was especially interesting, a line somewhere about how the Kings were chosen for sacrifice rather than primacy--that the royal bloodlines were the buffer between the human refugees and the raptured insanity that exposure to the Paravians could cause.

And Lysaer, the townspeople, and the Koriani are firmly on the side that human concerns should come before any other concerns... would they have this same attitude even with the Paravians still present? Did the whole townspeople revolt happen after the Mistwraith's appearance, or before?

Talith's treatment was so cruel! I don't think I could ever forgive Lysaer for his hypocrisy in that corner. The whole bit about "if the babe is dark, kill it as demonspawn, if it is light, give it up to orphanage." Um... there are a lot of people with dark coloring other than Arithon! Or is his crusade and the attack against magic users and bards going to extend into ethnic cleansing now too? Lysaer has firmly established himself as a hypocrite and a liar in my mind and I am quite happy to hate him every time he comes on page.

Was so happy to see Caolle turn the slaver plan upside down! A much worthier ending than being cut down by his own prince... I kept wishing he would just go ahead and drop Lirenda's crystal though. She's going to be a thorn for a lot longer. And the fact that a voodoo doll was able to spark the Curse... that is very disturbing. Really hoping that this book ends with the Koriani getting a big smackdown after all their plans. Would love to see Lysaer turn against them and hunt them too.

I'm starting to get a feel for what the Fellowship can & can't do, but it is still wibbly-wobbly. So like... they could free Elaira from her oath-connections to the Koriani... but she has to come up with the idea and ask them first? They can't say "oh hey, if you wanted this, we could do it." How many other things are they capable of doing, but don't, because no one knows to ask? It does remind me of how they had the Amethyst and were just waiting for someone to ask about it.

Elaira's suggestion about Airthon--to release him from the blood oath, and let his survival stay his decision... I can see all the other oaths and demands of his people binding him just as strongly, like Caolle's words, once they reach him... (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Sorry I haven't been around the past few days! Finals, and holidays, getting vaccinated, have all degraded my thought-power, though I've still been reading. Usually I like to type up thoughts at th..."

It's ok! I expected it to be a bit quiet over this week, so all good! That being said, I can shed some light...

On the revolt:(view spoiler)[ Not before the Mistwraith, precisely, but there was discontent and issues stretching back a LONG time. (The Mistwraith overtaking the continent took a while too, so it was an ongoing thing). (hide spoiler)]

Lysaer and his crusade: (view spoiler)[ Due to how talents tend to follow bloodlines and those are typically clansfolk, he's skirting that line and as we saw in the meeting Mearn spied on, there are factions who 100% know so their cause of ethnically cleansing the clans so that human interests reign supreme, well, Lysaer's cause suits them just fine, hand in glove. (hide spoiler)]

Caolle: (view spoiler)[ His comeback was fantastic, I agree. (hide spoiler)]

The Fellowship: (view spoiler)[ It all centers very strongly on free will. They won't act against anyone's, though they'll create situations to direct people to act in a certain way. "You want to move into this area that is proscribed and do so against warning... oh look, everything you try and build rots and collapses and you've got no choice but to pack up and go back. How sad." Simultaneously, if you want to know something or have them take action on your behalf, then you have to ask. They'll never volunteer information, but as you see with Elaira, they might phrase things in such a way to prompt you toward an action but your own beliefs bar you from considering that. Elaira doesn't, in her mind, believe her vows are something she can escape from, therefore it doesn't occur to her to ask if they can do anything about it. (hide spoiler)]

Arithon's oath: (view spoiler)[ Sans the blood oath, I don't think he'd have endured beyond Vastmark. Its burden was heavy. And somewhere, he says as much. FP is such a low point for him. :/ (hide spoiler)]

Ooh, I'm looking forward to learning more about that history--lots of little tidbits dropped lately. Through Chapter 12 Reprieves--(view spoiler)[The whole grimward experience was interesting. The hints about the Second Age, the Drakes, the burned continent... will we learn more about these?

More about the bloodlines too--all of the talk of saving clan bloodlines--are there more than just the cathaiden and the royalty, then? What kids of special bloodlines are there? And are the clansfolk a different... migration... of human refugees?

Also wondering why Lysaer & Arithon's lines are Kings, while the s'Bryndions are Dukes... (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Ooh, I'm looking forward to learning more about that history--lots of little tidbits dropped lately. Through Chapter 12 Reprieves--The whole grimward experience was interesting. The hints about the..."

On the topic of the Second Age, etc, yes more will be revealed. :D

(view spoiler)[Not a different migration. The humans on Athera all arrived at the same time, Koriani included(with one group's exception, but they've only been vaguely alluded to so far, you'll learn more of them later. Just that, the who became the clan bloodlines were more talent-born, essentially. All chosen for being able to withstand, to some degree, Paravian presence and not be uplifted by their transcendent being.

The 5 lines chosen as 'Kings' were simply the(mostly) ones most able to withstand direct interaction with Paravians. The other clansfolk operated in the wild where energetic resonance was higher, but were mainly tasked with keeping others safe and guiding those who strayed away from migration routes(the Riathan/Unicorns traveled as a herd/group. (hide spoiler)]

Thank you for those clarifications!

Through Chapter 13 Checks and Balances (view spoiler)[Am I wrong, or did I just get my wish? Did Lysaer essentially just tell the Koriani that he was adding them to his shit list too? And they're still siding with him? I did find it interesting how even the Koriaini Senior (Loraine? I'm bad with names) was almost swayed by Lysaer's charismatic presence. Like he's got mind-control magic going on.

Man but I hate hypocrites, and Lysaer is turning out to be the biggest of them all. I do like that there keep being little moments which try to show him the, hem, light--and he keeps rejecting them because he can't. HANDLE. THE. TRUTH!

Also... Lysaer sacrifices lives to fit his narrative and maintain his image. Arithon only sacrifices lives to try to save more. (hide spoiler)]

Finished! (view spoiler)[I like how the story is showing the limitations of the Fellowship--they are so powerful, but it isn't only the Law of Balance that prevents them from action... we also get to see a little of how thinly stretched they are, with five covering the duties of Seven plus whatever the Paravians would've been doing... and thus letting the Koriani slip in and widen the cracks.

I was disappointed that those "consequences" of being ejected from the Charter haven't shown up yet. True, none of Lysaer's gambits succeeded--but that's more a "whew" for Arithon than a slap at Lysaer so far. I want to see him HURT and realize it's HIS OWN FAULT.

I'm getting more curious about Havish. The queen in the last bit, confirmed pregnant, was his queen, yes? And he's the only one, other than Arithon, who is last of his line. The protections the Fellowship gave Havish, the boundaries and the spell that no slave-bearing vessel may land--it's a nice example of what the Fellowship is capable of if invited... Though I also worry that Havish is going to end up being a target for Lysaer's Alliance... any neutral party must actually be sided with the Shadow Master, after all. Also saw in the appendix that his bloodline talent is "temperance." Rather curious how that works?

Realized with Lirenda's vision of Elaira that we actually got like, no Elaira this book, outside of the opening scene. So Lirenda's plan must involve the child with that prophecy--what is up with him having Arithon's eyes? Is it just the fate linking them? Seemed like Lirenda was wondering if he was his son or something.

Also was flipping through the glossary and it brought up some questions... The Black Rose Prophecy deals with the reunification of the Fellowship--specifically, or Davien the Betrayer coming back into the fold somehow through Arithon's actions. But does it also mention bringing back the one of them who was lost?

Also enjoying the origins of the names. Like Dakar's root word origin comes from "clumsy."

I feel like we didn't get a ton of time with Dakar in this book, but he's really come a long way even with shortened scenes. It was interesting to see him interact with people like Caolle and Jeraint, who haven't met the new-and-improved version, and are still treating him like the sulky man-boy he used to be. He still has his vices--but instead of cursing people when they take him away from them, he's cursing himself for his weakness, especially when a night of drinking caused a lapse in his vigil, leading to Arithon's mistwraith madness and Caolle's death-wound. It's so interesting to see how he went from actively plotting Arithon's murder to having to keep Arithon from harming himself. (hide spoiler)]

On the 45 day schedule, next book is Feb 1st. Really hoping some other folk catch up to us...

Nirkatze wrote: "Finished! I like how the story is showing the limitations of the Fellowship--they are so powerful, but it isn't only the Law of Balance that prevents them from action... we also get to see a little..."

There is a lot!

The Seven: (view spoiler)[ One thing to keep an eye on is Asandir. Short of when he's accompanying the brothers through Curse, notice that every time we see him, he's doing something or off on his next job. There's a LOT they do that is just.. background. Grimwards are a taste of that, here in FP. How much else is there that we don't necessarily see? :D (hide spoiler)]

Lysaer: (view spoiler)[ Don't worry! Primarily, remember, the Compact establishes the terms under which Mankind inhabits Athera. Being cast out... your license to live on the planet is revoked and the ultimate decider of your fate would be the Paravians. So, we might have to wait a bit. (hide spoiler)]

More Elaira to come.

The Black Rose Prophecy specifically deals with the restoration of the Seven. Others can be elevated but any references to the Fellowship of Seven are specifically the seven named Sorcerers(capital S always, if you notice). Sethvir, Kharadmon, Luhaine, Traithe, Asandir, Davien, Ciladis. (the latter two being absent for reasons).

Also will be lots more Dakar to come! :D

I'm glad you enjoyed it! You tore through this one. :D Grand Conspiracy's gonna be a wild ride that you'll love, I am sure!

re: Asandir--(view spoiler)[The bit about the holes in his... aura? and how he wasn't healing properly sound very worrisome... we didn't actually get to see if Sethvir's ministrations were fully restorative... (hide spoiler)]

The glossary entry on the Black Rose prophecy only mentions Davien, (view spoiler)[not Ciladis, so I was wondering... I'm also wondering if it might include healing Traithe? Though I guess if all Seven were together, they'd be able to take care of that no problem--there were hints on that.

Also very curious about Traithe's raven... some glimpses here, but also the raven is very prominent in a lot of the artwork... (hide spoiler)]

Thank you as always for the clarifications! re: Lysaer--gah! I can wait, I can wait... they have to come back, so I can wait...

Definitely looking forward to the next.

Yeah, the Prophecy only mentions Ciladis by implication. "Neither shall the Fellowship be restored to Seven."

You're welcome! I shall continue on with these! Can't wait for you to start off Grand Conspiracy!

For an UPDATE! Curse of the Mistwraith will be released in April in Audiobook format! Worldwide! Link is up on audible. :D