Literary Horror discussion

Our October 2023 monthly read is Paula D. Ashe's collection We Are Here to Hurt Each Other.

The collection won the 2022 Shirley Jackson awards for best Single-Author Collection, and was also a finalist for the Stoker awards the same year.

A couple of the many mostly enthusiastic reviews:
https://www.infernalhorror.com/2022/0...
https://snuffoutthelight.com/we-are-h...

The collection is available on paper and as an e-book. Let's start close to the weekend of the 13th.

We will have an exchange student staying with us next week so I will start around the 21st of October.

Aspects of Emptiness

The author begins with the basic premise that all of us started out as “aspects of emptiness”. The author's "exercise" at the beginning of the book (which entailed staring at the close up of one's half-darkened face which stared back at them from a dark mirror image, a darkness she called "dark dusk" where our eyes could just barely see the outline of our own facial features. In this artificially induced "Half-Light" when we maintained our focus a sufficient length of time with pure concentration, our face would gradually become unrecognizable to us and we would "see" our face as it really existed... defined as “before it was "constructed" and when it was still just a part of the emptiness, or an “aspect of emptiness.”

The author illuminates the reader on the subject of “Low” light which exists as “a half-state that the human eye is relatively unaccustomed to. When she asserts that “We can deal with dark or with light but unbalance the two and vision scrambles to force sense onto what it is seeing” I imagine the edge of a sharp knife upon which this “Half-state of “Low” Light maintains a tenuous balance.

More to the point is the author’s belief system that you have another face “beneath your face.” She asserts that you can see it “peeking out from behind the face you were born with” but only under a delicate balancing act of creating this tenuous half-light and then staring at your poorly illuminated face for 5 minutes or more.

There it is! Peeking out from behind the face you were born with, only revealing itself in the half light, and it is what you looked like “Before”, “when you were Unstructured”. This is just another way of saying when you were still a part of the “emptiness.” This “discovery” has ramifications for what is suggested to be a large number of individuals who sought to investigate (and believe) the author’s conviction.

But let me begin with my thoughts as a reader of this narrative dedicated to the topic of “Aspects of Emptiness.”
First, the author does not volunteer a motivation why I should embark upon this journey to confront the simple truth that my face was once merely existing as a part of the overall empty space or void. Had I not read this story I would never have asked myself the question or took actions that would lead me to try to validate the answer that is suggested by the author to be true. The writer reflects that, “Some people, once they see themselves negated, they can’t rest until the artifice is destroyed.” This additional clarification on what people do after they “find out” defined as believing the author’s story about “Aspects of Emptiness,” things go off the rails in a big way. It is to be taken for granted that actions to ease the anxiety that the revelation bestowed to me and others somehow needs to be addressed in some way to curtail the “truths” that were made clear.

Here the abstract segues into what our ancestors embraced to deal with the situation, the discussion creepy before it became bloody and gory. Our ancestors I thought? Here came candid talk of cheese graters, ancestors with sharp rocks, trunks of trees and shells.

“Some people, once they see themselves negated, they can’t rest until the artifice is destroyed.” The author refers again to the “Man with the Face of Teeth” and the acid he has brought her to effectively destroy the “artifice” and expose her true face. She says his countenance has never been separated from its lightless purity, which I found puzzling.

She perseveres in her education that throughout our histories "some people" among us who see herself (or himself) negated out that they find it difficult to accept. In fact, it became impossible for there not to follow a clear-cut, finite method of action to permanently destroy the façade. The individuals were unable to rest until the artifice was destroyed. She reveals that she is “a blistered, blasted nightmare” and challenges “What, underneath, are you?

I have more questions that I would like answered. That is independent of 1-accepting the premise that all of us possessed "a lightness purity" (if not one of those who opted to voluntarily be separated from said "lightless purity", and 2-that through the centuries many individuals sought to be separated from said " lightless purity". Okay. Then who is this strange man with the acid and the face full of teeth who is content to be on standby to render his horrifying task of applying corrosive chemicals to faces?? 2-How is it humanly possible that the man exists since he was one "who had never had the burden of a face" (using the “conventions” or rules of the narrator).

I was troubled (initially) because I could not picture myself performing self-mutilation on my face for the reasons that were given. Then I had an epiphany and guessed that since no psychotropics were involved then the people who could not tolerate the continued presence of any vestigial knowledge that a part existed (in this instance the face) that they were psychiatrically impaired by a type of body dysmorphic disorder wherein they are yes, convinced that a body part does not belong as part of their own body as they know it to be. People do become convinced and obsessed about surgical amputation of parts of the body which are perceived as alien. I would enjoy other readers’ input.

I usually assume that the narrator in horror fiction is insane until proven otherwise. I'm spared all these questions.

I have to admit, I tend not to enjoy most of the horror fiction I come across. (Which is ironic since I'm the mod who sets up most of our monthly reads, I know.) But I really like the creative ideas here (the man with the face of teeth, brrrr), and the strong writing.

I have read the Second Chapter but I want to observe any decorum about a group read as in not "read ahead" or get behind. This Paula Ashe selection is unlike any horror novel I have read. The Second Chapter (without giving anything away) is well...I will wait to see what others ha e to say first.

I'm about a third of the way through. I wasn't really feeling the first few stories. They were atmospheric, but they didn't really click with me. I liked "All the Hellish Cruelties of Heaven" a little bit more than the first two. I have been in a bit of a reading funk lately.

I enjoyed "Grave Miracles" and "Exile in Extremis." I liked the shift in tone in "Grave Miracles." "Exile in Extremis" was a good use of e-mails and chat transcripts. The way the characters were gradually more comfortable talking to each other seemed realistic. (view spoiler)[I was expecting a twist relating to Elle's motivations. The way she would "accidentally" reveal information was too convenient, and I thought it would have more plot significance. (hide spoiler)]

I was waiting until I finished Silver Nitrate to start, but I snuck the first stories in between chapters. Holy shit, completely repulsive and completely compelling. I think I will love and hate this book with all my heart (and soul, and face).

Whitney, how is Silver Nitrate? I thought Signal to Noise was entertaining, if a bit light.

There aren't clear chapter numbers, so it's a little tricky to refer to specific sections. But sounds like we're ready to move on from the first one. Gentle reminder: "spoiler" tags are very helpful in these situations.

I was actually about a third of the way through a few weeks ago, but restarted when this became our October book. Just reread "All the Hellish Cruelties of Heaven". I've said this already, I tend not to be a fan of ornate prose and over-the-top verbiage (like "All the Hellish etc"), but Ashe does this well and the pieces are chock full of beautiful extreme imagery. And I appreciate how she keeps things somewhat open-ended, with ambiguous pronouns and dark implications.

Bill wrote: "Whitney, how is Silver Nitrate? I thought Signal to Noise was entertaining, if a bit light.

There aren't clear chapter numbers, so it's a little tricky to refer to specific sections. But sounds li..."

I agree that Signal to Noise was a bit light. So far, really liking Silver Nitrate and its idea of film as a medium for casting spells. But any thing in the cursed film genre usually has something I enjoy.

I'm a little confused by the confusion over where people are in We Are Here to Hurt Each Other. It's 12 short stories, which all have titles, where's the difficulty?

My difficulty was after reading through the entire short book I went back to read it chapter by chapter. And then tried to partipate in the group read. I have reread the "All The Hellish Cruelties Of Heaven"
So it isn't no time to read it. After reading the book and carefully reading first three chapters. I know basically one thing. Pain and suffering makes the word go round. Everything I read sounds like a schizophrenic word salad or an acid trip. This is a novel I cannot understand and do not enjoy the content whatsoever.
So much for my first attempt at a group read. Thank you for your comments. I will choose more wisely next time. Thank you.
.

"Exile in Extremis" is the funniest thing I've read in weeks. The email/chat exchanges are nicely done, and while body horror doesn't usually work for me in fiction, it somehow works here. I'd prefer the big reveal not to be so explicit (view spoiler)[[was it necessary to connect everything to Carcosa? Couldn't we have just left it with "my voice is dead"?] (hide spoiler)], but this was great fun.

I'm really not a fan of how often the book uses drug addicts, homeless people, and sex workers for horror. The author seems to be aiming to say something about the horrors of cities and urban areas, but I don't like how she's going about it.

Nominations for our November monthly book?
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Vanessa wrote: "I'm really not a fan of how often the book uses drug addicts, homeless people, and sex workers for horror."

That crossed my mind as well. But see below...

The next three stories are solid, but I can't say I'm as enthusiastic about them as the earlier pieces. "Jacqueline Laughs Last..." is a riff on (view spoiler)[the Jack the Ripper trope (hide spoiler)], nicely executed but not terribly surprising. What's horrific to me in the story is the hypocrisy and sheer callousness and evil of the deacon and his wife, taking advantage of the sex workers and their predicament.

"Because You Watched" starts promisingly enough with the traumatic family history. There's a disorienting dream-like segment that I quite liked, but otherwise I didn't care for how it was developed. "A Needleshine Litany" was also disappointingly straightforward, though I liked the "Thornmother" idea. Both of these steer in somewhat different directions from the earlier pieces.

Sorry! I won't be able to join this group read. We had an exchange student at our house last week and now I am struggling with work duties.

I'm only 5 stories in, and reading even slower than usual given the amazing and dense prose.

Like Bill, I'm not normally a fan of what's termed "extreme" horror, but so far I am all in on this one. The prose is incredible. These stories remind me of the photographs of Joel-Peter Witkin, with their gorgeous images of things that would normally be considered grotesque. The combination somehow adds to the depth of the beauty.

I'm also reminded of Micheal Shea's story "Coping Squid", which touches on the additive property of the deeply horrific. Ashe has taken it one stop further, and made the deeply horrific a religion, in a deeper way than typical "horror cult" stories.

Bill wrote: ""Exile in Extremis" is the funniest thing I've read in weeks. The email/chat exchanges are nicely done, and while body horror doesn't usually work for me in fiction, it somehow works here. I'd pref..."

Definitely. Even the headers of the emails. Oddly effective levity among the horrors. I was okay with (view spoiler)[it being a Carcosa story. I like that modern writers utilize and expand on existing literary mythoi (I had to look up that plural). (hide spoiler)]

Have you read Things Have Gotten Worse Since We Last Spoke? It also makes good use of email and chatrooms.

Whitney wrote: "Have you read Things Have Gotten Worse Since We Last Spoke?"

Yes, it was one of our monthly reads a couple years ago:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I really liked the setup, but not how it was developed.

The last few pieces use different narrative strategies to tell stories of family trauma. The closing novelette, "Telesignatures from a Future Corpse", is a neo-noir thriller with science fiction elements. I tend not to enjoy thrillers, and I think it tries to do too much. But I did find it entertaining, and was swept along by the unconventional police procedural and some charming characters.

Interesting that the first few stories have the densest prose, and works mostly with addiction, homelessness etc. Then Ashe eventually moves on to lighter prose and family trauma. Was this intended? Would the collection work better if the different story types were more interleaved? I'm not sure.

Bill wrote: "Whitney wrote: "Have you read Things Have Gotten Worse Since We Last Spoke?"

Yes, it was one of our monthly reads a couple years ago:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/......"

Oh, yeah - now I remember being too late for that one. Pity.

I found this interview with Paula Ashe that has a good discussion about why she is drawn to the extremes in her fiction. It also discusses the religious group known as "he Convulsionnaires", who were pretty freakin wild in their devotions.

https://www.seizethepress.com/2023/09...

Whitney wrote: "I found this interview with Paula Ashe..."

Thanks! Very interesting interview. Those convulsionnaires are something.

I kept forgetting to mention, the man with the face of teeth reminds me of a similarly toothy entity in Nick Antosca's Candle Cove:
https://screenrant.com/channel-zero-c...

Bill wrote: "..I kept forgetting to mention, the man with the face of teeth r..."

I also thought of this one, although I thought Ashe's image was creepier, Tooth Guy in Channel Zero just looked like he has teeth glued all over himself.

I went back to an interview Ashe did on Talking Scared. One of her inspirations was radiographs of children's skulls, which are all teeth. I'm with her, I also think those are creepy as hell. Anyone wanting to experience the terror, google "child skull radiographs".

There's also some discussion of her influences. Clive Barker seems an obvious one to me, with his ornate prose describing horrific body horrors.

I liked the connections between Ashe's stories, such as "Grave Miracles" describing the resurrection (and feed and caring) of loved ones, followed by "Exile in Extremis" with it's many resurrected loved ones. I also love the 'weird religious cults devoted to horrors' genre (Barker influence again). Part of the discussion on the podcast was that Ashe does intend to expand her particular mythologies, which I am here for.

One other point that I appreciated being articulated was the way Ashe presents her practitioners of these horrors not as simply monsters (although most of us would perceive them that way), but rather as 'others', with different ethics and practices. I think that difference is what defines the extreme horror I appreciate, verses that I prefer to avoid.

Whitney wrote: "Tooth Guy in Channel Zero just looked like he has teeth glued all over himself. "

I agree he could have looked better. Budgetary constraints, I'm sure.

One other point that I appreciated being articulated was the way Ashe presents her practitioners of these horrors not as simply monsters (although most of us would perceive them that way), but rather as 'others', with different ethics and practices.

Totally agree again.

We haven't heard from a couple of the supporters for the collection in our poll. How's everyone doing? Are we all close to finished? What did you think of the book?

November poll is up!
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...