Horror Aficionados discussion

This is the thread for the November 2023 Group Read with Guest Author, Clay McLeod Chapman. Clay will be joining us all month long as we read his highly anticipated new release, What Kind of Mother. Grab your copy at the link below and please help me welcome to HA for the first time…Clay McLeod Chapman!

https://www.amazon.com/What-Kind-Moth...

This was one heck of a book. Very different and unexpected where the story goes. And Clay is just the nicest guy. So glad to have him join us.

Welcome Clay!

We just read this author's book, Ghost Eaters, a few months back. Quite enjoyable. This one should be a good one - description sounds great!

I read Ghost Eaters last year and it WAS quite enjoyable! I want to read this and I'm going to see if I can squeeze it in. I really like Clay's writing style.

This book takes you to the most surprising places! I enjoyed it a lot and I believe you all will really like this one too. Be prepared for a few unexpected twists! I am honored that Mr. Chapman will be joining us for this reading.

Very excited to read this one and chat with Clay! I really enjoyed his previous books. :)

Dang this sounds really good. I loved Ghost eaters sooooo much!

I would like to read this one, too, and have it on my library's hold list. It looks promising to get it soon. I would enjoy an opportunity to read and discuss this novel.

This is so exciting! I have this book and will now definitely read it asap in November!

Started this book today having not read anything prior about the book or author (my preferred way to start a book) and was VERY surprised to hear all of the local lore and haunts of my neighborhood! I had no idea it was set in Richmond, VA, where I live. I loved the nod to Monument Avenue, Hollywood Cemetery, and Poe’s Pub. So excited to read the rest of the book!!

Howdy ho, everybody! Clay here... This is my first Goodreads group chat, so forgive me for my fumbling up front while I figure this all out.

Just to say it up front: Thanks to Alan and Ken for having me on. And thanks to all of you for... um, diving into this book. I can't even imagine what you all think. The response has been pretty polarizing, both positive and negative, so I'm ready to have a warts-and-all chat about the book. Nothing's off the table, as far as I'm concerned.

Can't wait to discuss this book with you all! Thanks again for reading.

Alan wrote: "This was one heck of a book. Very different and unexpected where the story goes. And Clay is just the nicest guy. So glad to have him join us."

Thanks, Alan! It's a little twisty, yeah? As long as I earned those twists, that's all that matters to me. I feel like there are those books that take out-of-field turns that don't necessarily merit/earn them, so I tried to ground those twists from the get-go, or at least in the chronology of events (even if the book itself isn't told in chronological order), so that those particular turns are in fact natural evolutionary steps for our little Skyler... if that makes sense.

Kimberly wrote: "Welcome Clay!"

Helloooooooooooooooooo

Kenneth wrote: "This is the thread for the November 2023 Group Read with Guest Author, Clay McLeod Chapman. Clay will be joining us all month long as we read his highly anticipated new release, What Kind of Mother..."

Here we gooooooooooooooo....

Netanella wrote: "We just read this author's book, Ghost Eaters, a few months back. Quite enjoyable. This one should be a good one - description sounds great!"

Not to compare/contrast too-too much, but I'll be curious to hear which one you liked better... Ghost Eaters, in my mind, is a bit more expansive -- it's got a small group of friends, an ensemble of characters I guess you could say, and more global thoughts that stretch beyond the core characters... while WKOM is smaller, more intimate, and more focussed on their myopic/suffocating/constrictive worldview. Feels more like a hand-carved box to me, or to stick with my own metaphor... an acoustic song, unplugged, where Ghost Eaters is a sloppy electric punk rock ditty.

Char wrote: "I read Ghost Eaters last year and it WAS quite enjoyable! I want to read this and I'm going to see if I can squeeze it in. I really like Clay's writing style."

Thanks, Char! Definitely feel like the learning curve is pretty steep and I'm trying to take away as much as I can from the reader experience of each book, assessing what readers experience with each novel and how I can take that into the writing process of the following book...

Clay wrote: "Thanks, Alan! It's a little twisty, yeah? As long as I earned those twists, that's all that matters to me. I feel like there are those books that take out-of-field turns that don't necessarily merit/earn them, so I tried to ground those twists from the get-go, or at least in the chronology of events (even if the book itself isn't told in chronological order), so that those particular turns are in fact natural evolutionary steps for our little Skyler... if that makes sense."

Yes, those were not cheesy twists at all, and weren't loudly telegraphed early either.

I did remember a question I had about the book. As a resident of Virginia Beach I was somewhat familiar with the area in which the story takes place. However, some of the towns/roads didn't seem to match up, unless the characters traveled from sw of Richmond to way east of Richmond, at least 1-2 hours apart. Did you take some liberties with the region setting, making it your version of VA, or did I just read my map wrong?

Rikki wrote: "This book takes you to the most surprising places! I enjoyed it a lot and I believe you all will really like this one too. Be prepared for a few unexpected twists! I am honored that Mr. Chapman wil..."

Thanks for sticking with me, Rikki! It's a weird one, right? It's been fun to see folks go on the ride, and see how they feel afterwards. I don't win everybody over, but I think that's okay. I actually have to admit I didn't anticipate it would be *that twisty-turny... but now I know.

Hayley wrote: "Very excited to read this one and chat with Clay! I really enjoyed his previous books. :)"

Thanks, Hayley... I don't know if this is more of the same or something different, but I'm definitely trying to push in a different direction. Really hope you enjoy it.

Latasha wrote: "Dang this sounds really good. I loved Ghost eaters sooooo much!"

Keep the bar loooooooooooow...

Pisces51 wrote: "I would like to read this one, too, and have it on my library's hold list. It looks promising to get it soon. I would enjoy an opportunity to read and discuss this novel."

Hope your library comes through! It's a doooooozy...

Shelby Dee wrote: "This is so exciting! I have this book and will now definitely read it asap in November!"

I'll be here all month! Talk soooooon...

Sarah wrote: "Started this book today having not read anything prior about the book or author (my preferred way to start a book) and was VERY surprised to hear all of the local lore and haunts of my neighborhood..."

Hello, fellow RVAer! I was born in Roanoke, raised in Richmond... I lived on the southside, but all through high school, we'd cross the James and hang out on VCU's campus. Loved it.

Haven't lived in Richmond for 25 years now, but my imagination always goes back there when I start writing a new book... I can't leave it.

I was actually just in Richmond this weekend for an event at Halloween Hangover. Love that town so much!

Alan wrote: "Clay wrote: "Thanks, Alan! It's a little twisty, yeah? As long as I earned those twists, that's all that matters to me. I feel like there are those books that take out-of-field turns that don't nec..."

Oh, yes, I collapsed 301 into like, two miles... which only fellow Virginians would be able to call me out on!

There's a psychic/palm reader in Brandywine, MD (https://www.yelp.com/biz/psychic-read...) that I've been driving by for years on my way to visit family in Virginia... and every time, I said to myself: "There's a story there."

But I needed that store to be in Virginia, closer to the Chesapeake. I wanted it to be a part of the Mathew's County/Gloucster County area, nearer the Piankatank River. That took some, um, creative licensing. For better or for worse.

Clay wrote: "Oh, yes, I collapsed 301 into like, two miles... which only fellow Virginians would be able to call me out on!

There's a psychic/palm reader in Brandywine, MD (https://www.yelp.com/biz/psychic-read...) that I've been driving by for years on my way to visit family in Virginia... and every time, I said to myself: "There's a story there."

But I needed that store to be in Virginia, closer to the Chesapeake. I wanted it to be a part of the Mathew's County/Gloucster County area, nearer the Piankatank River. That took some, um, creative licensing. For better or for worse."

That's awesome, and I'm amazed that I figured that out. I'm not usually that sharp. Creative license aside, it's always fun reading a story that takes place relatively near you.

Hi Clay! Congratulations on your book and surviving your very entertaining tour! I very much enjoyed What Kind of Mother and I felt the book flowed under Madi’s narration. I’m sorry, not sorry if I overload with questions throughout the month but I hope that others have my questions too!

But first I would like to start with the duck blind! When did you first see it and think there was a story there?

Rex wrote: "Hi Clay! Congratulations on your book and surviving your very entertaining tour! I very much enjoyed What Kind of Mother and I felt the book flowed under Madi’s narration. I’m sorry, not sorry if I..."

Rex! Flood away! That's what I'm here for... I honestly love it and am floored anyone wants to chat with me about it.

So. The duck blind. There's one in the Piankatank where my grandparents used to live, which I kinda used/fused in the book. I grew up looking at it out their window... It was always just out there, you know?

As kids, me and some friends would take a canoe out there. We could swim out there, if we wanted, but there was always a risk of a boat or a jetski plowing through and blonking us on the head.

There was one instance of me and a girlfriend going out there in the middle of the night and making out... It truly was a romantic, swooning spot at night, where you could/can climb up on its roof and just lie down and stare up at the stars/sky...

...Which gets to your question: I was in the book, well into the first draft, digging into Henry's narrative, where I was focussing on the story of his life -- and Grace's -- how they met, etc. and all of a sudden I was like, "Oh, huh, what about that ol' duck blind?" It was kind of an organic happy accident, where I just remembered it, planting it into his narrative, and then it just became such a focal point, a true north star, for the whole book... I just came back to it again and again. It was the perfect (in my mind) setting for both Henry's story and Madi's story to merge into one, with Skyler ushering them together.

Hope that comes close to answering your question!

Thank you so much, Clay! For the first question, you answered even more than I expected! I remembered close to launch day, you posted a video where you showed the duck blind and I thought, “Surely, if you knew exactly where you were going to show readers (curiouser and curiouser!), there is a deeper story so to hear how Harry’s backstory with Grace and the duck blind… wow… that’s awesome! That was an excellent crescendo (highlight) by the end of Madi’s first narration imo.

So I’m guessing that ‘Three is a Magic Number,’ like young Henry, was listened by young Clay at his grandparents? Is there a story about the quilt? Were there nosy hens like Charlene, Millie & May growing up?

I’ve got much tougher questions (anybody else is free to jump in!) but I’m grateful, and pleasantly surprised, to receive such a deep cut answer to the first!

Rex wrote: "Thank you so much, Clay! For the first question, you answered even more than I expected! I remembered close to launch day, you posted a video where you showed the duck blind and I thought, “Surely,..."

I live for this, frankly... It's just nice to chat about this with someone who's interested. Happy to dive in as deep as anyone wants to go.

I was absolutely of the Schoolhouse Rock generation... which is pretty pretty old. Here's the OG song: https://bit.ly/3QpJWa3

Though, I think for Henry's sake -- and the book -- he might've been a little younger than me, so I justified him listening to the Blind Melon version: https://bit.ly/3SouZaU

Again, another cheat on my part... but I love that song. We used to sing it/play it when our first child was born, so it's got some personal resonance too.

The quilt is purely imagined... as are the Farmers Market Mafia. Totally made up. But! There's a slight easter egg/reference with the leader of the group and an early story I wrote called "B-Side," which nobody would ever get, but she's a reocurring character!

*********SPOILER QUESTIONS AHEAD!!!!!*********

I’m just going to keep plowing ahead and get to some good stuff :D

Was it always in your head that Skyler would be a peeler? Like, did you entertain the idea he would be a horseshoe crab or a jellyfish at any other point?

And his name! Skyler! Love the name! How did you come to name him?

And one more question about the playlist, because the last song, Pockets of Light, is beautifully complex. Were you channeling the idea of the ‘thought plus time plus energy’ through it? It’s what I as a reader interpreted or was the song what you felt along the Piankatank or anything else?

Thank you!

Rex wrote: "*********SPOILER QUESTIONS AHEAD!!!!!*********

I’m just going to keep plowing ahead and get to some good stuff :D

Was it always in your head that Skyler would be a peeler? Like, did you entertain..."

Plow ahead, damnit! Let's do it... Sooooo SPOILER ANSWER:

No, it wasn't always in my head that Skyler would be a peeler. That was a very organic epiphany that hit during the revision process.

The first draft of the novel strictly had Skyler as -- spoiler spoiler spoiler -- a tulpa. When I first pitched the book to my publisher/editor, and well on into my writing of the first draft, the whole guiding principle was that Henry and Madi created a thoughtform together. This was their joint effort, this collaboration, creating a tulpa that was based upon Henry's raw emotions and Madi's guiding hand.

The notion of the peeler bled into that notion and... well, it pretty much took over. To be honest, the original pure tulpa version of Skyler was a bit bland. He didn't really do anything. But when the elements of Henry's life, and nature, and the river and the romance between Henry and Grace and subsequently Madi's own noodling, it led to something more than just a thoughtform, or a tulpa, in the purest sense, and became something more... elemental. Of the region. Which, in the end, I think is still a tulpa... only a more organic one, perhaps?

It makes me think of storytelling. You tell a story over and over again, it'll eventually get a little muddy. It changes. Same thing with Skyler. It's not the "pure" version of him. Nothing ever will be. He became/becomes a blend of elements and evolves into something new.

The jellyfish eyes were one of the first images to pop into my head, but I needed to find the best place for that... and the horseshoe crab scene was a little later. I never thought he'd strictly be a jellyfish boy or horsehoe baby, but some kind of strange blend of them all.

God, I love Pickets of Light... I wasn't channeling the lyrics so much, beautiful as they are, and oddly thematically on point, but more the rhythmic/tidal quality of the music. I played that song I don't know how many times as I wrote. Just put it on repeat and let it wash over me. So more process-craft based than metaphor/theme based... but I do think the song can be both.

********MORE SPOILER QUESTIONS AHEAD!!!!********

Thank you so much! Now I’m going to go all over the book since I haven’t been wiped from here yet :D

Let’s talk victims quickly!

Was there ever a point where Lizzie could be redeemable or was her aggressive attitude forever fated to Skyler’s wrath? A 1 star review (“I’d give it zero if I could!”) on Yelp could have saved you, Lizzie lol

And speaking of attitudes, was there ever a point where you wanted to swap Chewy’s fate with Donny? Sure Kendra needed a Dad, but a crabby bite on the arm hopefully could’ve adjusted his arrogance.

As always, thank you!

Rex wrote: "********MORE SPOILER QUESTIONS AHEAD!!!!********

Thank you so much! Now I’m going to go all over the book since I haven’t been wiped from here yet :D

Let’s talk victims quickly!

Was there ever a..."

You know... there was one moment, just the briefest blip of a second, where I swapped out Lizzie's death scene with... Kendra. She suffered the Skyler/horseshoe crab fate and my editor flipped. Made me change it back. No one knew except her and me until now!

There's possibly the slightest chance Lizzie's demise was all just an accident. Had she not been so panicked/aggressive in that moment, she might not have been, um, impaled... but I think the stars were always aligned for that moment.

It's funny... but that whole scene was partially-inspired by a 'jump scare' moment in Adam Nevill's Cunning Folk. I read that book while writing this one and I wondered if I could try and create a scare that came out-of-the-blue, much like a particular scene in his novel.

As much as I'd prefer Donny to've gotten bit by Skyler than poor Chewy, I think -- again -- there's that slight sense of an escalating misunderstanding at play here. If Chewy wasn't being so defensive, and Skyler wasn't so clingy, maybe things wouldn't have gotten so bad so quickly... but that's life, right? Accidents happen all the time.

SPOILER QUESTION


So throughout Madi admits that her whole palm reading schtick is mostly her being able to figure out what her clients need to hear and then tailor their readings to give them some peace of mind. But the reading with Henry gives her visions and their connection conjures up Skyler. Did Madi actually have a little psychic ability all along, and was she aware, but it was previously not very strong? Or did she really have no ability whatsoever, but the conviction of Henry combined with her leading him created the abilities/reaction, which spawned the tulpa? I hope that makes sense.

Alan wrote: "SPOILER QUESTION


So throughout Madi admits that her whole palm reading schtick is mostly her being able to figure out what her clients need to hear and then tailor their readings to give them som..."

Totally makes sense... and I wish I had a more concise answer. For me, she's got zero psychic ability. The initial pitch for this book, in my heart/mind was: "a person pretending to be a psychic (who's not psychic) has a psychic/supernatural experience." It was important for me that she be a sham... and in the early drafting she was a total Long Island Psychic-style phony who gets exposed/caught in a lie and has to come home to lick her wounds and reconnect/reconcile with her teen daughter.

My editors felt like we needed to cover our asses with a throwaway line about her grandmother having done palm readings, which may or may not allude to her having a smidge of psychic abilities. If you were to ask me point-blank if Madi has abilities I would answer no.

BUT it's her connection to Henry that sparks this supernatural link. Henry's this raw powder keg of... whatever you might want to call it. He's got all the energy here, psychic or otherwise, that Madi focusses/guides and together they... well, they create something special.

Cool. It did seem she was faking it early on, but after the Henry reading, and surprising herself, it made the reader question things just as Madi herself did. I like when a story makes you question what's real and what's not. Well written, Sir.

Alan wrote: "Cool. It did seem she was faking it early on, but after the Henry reading, and surprising herself, it made the reader question things just as Madi herself did. I like when a story makes you questio..."

Thank yoooooooooooooou...

*******SPOILER QUESTION!!!!’********

Thank you so much, I’m loving these answers and diving into this. Now I’ve got a good one that’s been on my mind for awhile:

In an interview you said you were Henry. However, there’s a point, well right until the end, where you’re not Henry (in another part of that same interview, you said “Fathers just disappear”). As crazy as it sounds, did you ever have an alternate ending for yourself and/or Henry where he doesn’t do himself in and carry the burden of Skyler with Madi?

As always, thank you Clay!

Rex wrote: "*******SPOILER QUESTION!!!!’********

Thank you so much, I’m loving these answers and diving into this. Now I’ve got a good one that’s been on my mind for awhile:

In an interview you said you were..."

Never, sadly... I know it's a bummer, but Henry was always fated to go out this way. RIP, Henry!

I just got my copy of this and read the first chapter. I wish I could read some of these comments and add to the discussion, but I don't want to succumb to the spoilers. I'll have to come back and re-read through them when I'm done.

This is my first read from you Mr. Chapman, and I'm drawn in and loving it so far.

BTW I usually read on my Kindle, but I bought a physical copy so I could hopefully get it signed.... looking forward to meeting you at the Scarelastic Book Fair in Indiana in a few months.

Nickronomicon wrote: "I just got my copy of this and read the first chapter. I wish I could read some of these comments and add to the discussion, but I don't want to succumb to the spoilers. I'll have to come back and ..."

Yes! I'll definitely see you in March... Can't wait.

And as a first time reader, let me just say... Thanks. I hope you dig it. It's a weird one. Some people seem to really get into it, others... not so much. Whatever your experience, I just appreciate you giving me a shot. Enjoy.

Clay, I would like to thank you now for my inability to eat any type of seafood for, possibly, the rest of the year.

Peelers or hard shell.

😆

Netanella wrote: "Clay, I would like to thank you now for my inability to eat any type of seafood for, possibly, the rest of the year.

Peelers or hard shell.

😆"

Sorrreeeeeeeeeeeey...

Hey Clay!

I remember you saying (I think) your editor said you can either have a prologue or an epilogue but you couldn’t have both. What was the prologue going to be?

Rex wrote: "Hey Clay!

I remember you saying (I think) your editor said you can either have a prologue or an epilogue but you couldn’t have both. What was the prologue going to be?"

That's correct! I'd written both... and the prologue got cut because I prefered the epilogue and the story itself was veering away from what I (tried to) establish(ed) in the prologue.

Essentially, it was a hotel-bound rendition of the Olivia Mabel story: https://horroraddicts.wordpress.com/2...

I found this online and totally fell in love with it, but of course after a little further digging, it became clear that it was a promotional tool for a feature film that I don't think ever got off the ground.

I'm reading this, about 30ish % in. No idea whats going to happen but i'm ejoying the ride. I really loved Ghost Eaters, btw.

Stay away from the crab cakes appetizer.

but i love crab cakes :( i haven't got to that part yet, where i will no longer love them.

Latasha wrote: "but i love crab cakes :( i haven't got to that part yet, where i will no longer love them."

Give it time...