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To Kill a Mockingbird
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BANNED/CHALLENGED > To Kill a Mockingbird banned in Mulkilteo

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message 1: by Kelly (Maybedog), Minister of Illicit Reading (last edited Nov 04, 2023 12:34AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly (Maybedog) (maybedog) | 871 comments Mod
This is a bit different in that the book was banned because it offended students. Thoughts?

(Goodreads won't let me link to the article which is why I put the whole thing in spoiler tags to keep this post short.)

'To Kill a Mockingbird' in the hot seat at WA school district

District committee criticizes the book's language and says the way it handles race issues is problematic.

by Venice Buhain

(view spoiler)


message 2: by QNPoohBear, Minister of the Unapproved Written Word (new) - rated it 4 stars

QNPoohBear | 847 comments Mod
I read that and I feel like the teachers are to blame for not teaching it in context. Right off the bat you have a problem when the students think the book was SET in the Civil Rights era and don't understand what the story has to do with them. The teachers also should have shut down the students who deliberately used the word after being told not to. While I'm not sure I'd teach this novel to a class solely made up of students of African descent, I'd teach it to a mixed class. It shows what life was like at that place and time and the attitudes of the White people. It's relevant because you can make a direct link between systemic racism of the past to today. Of course that's not ALLOWED in way too many school districts.


message 3: by Manybooks, Minister of Forbidden Literature (new) - added it

Manybooks | 618 comments Mod
QNPoohBear wrote: "I read that and I feel like the teachers are to blame for not teaching it in context. Right off the bat you have a problem when the students think the book was SET in the Civil Rights era and don't..."

I agree with casting most of the blame on teachers. You do not simply assign a book like To Kill a Mockingbird, you read it in class with your students, you discuss the issues (including the contentious so called White Saviour problematic) and you do not let students use the N word and the like in class (and do not make much use of it yourself except for mentioning that the word is unacceptable but was historically used).


message 4: by QNPoohBear, Minister of the Unapproved Written Word (new) - rated it 4 stars

QNPoohBear | 847 comments Mod
The article did say the teachers had to attend sensitivity training to learn how to teach the novel but why on earth didn't they do that in the first place? They need to teach the story and the context together and not just here's what you need to read to pass the AP exam or whatever. I absolutely can't stand these standardized tests they do nowadays. I would be a third grade dropout because I can't do math and I don't test well. Fortunately I had great teachers in junior high and college who taught me how to read critically and think. High school was a bit of a dud but we did read some heavy hitters even if the teachers were awful.


message 5: by Kelly (Maybedog), Minister of Illicit Reading (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly (Maybedog) (maybedog) | 871 comments Mod
I agree with all of you. The fact that it didn't resonate with the Black students of today is really relevant. I couldn't relate to the characters or situations in The Great Gatsby or Wuthering Heights or The Catcher in the Rye and I found them horribly sexist but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to read them. I hated Catcher but I understand why it is good literature. Now these kids are going to grow up thinking they shouldn't read anything that isn't in their experience.

The other piece is that the teachers should be talking about the writing itself. The author originally was going to have it written from Scout's perspective as an adult looking back. But a publisher (I think) thought it better written from the child's perspective. Was that a good choice? Did the writing come across as narrated by a child? Etc.


message 6: by Manybooks, Minister of Forbidden Literature (new) - added it

Manybooks | 618 comments Mod
Kelly H. (Maybedog) wrote: "I agree with all of you. The fact that it didn't resonate with the Black students of today is really relevant. I couldn't relate to the characters or situations in The Great Gatsby or Wuthering Hei..."

I also totally did not enjoy The Great Gatsby when we read this in grade twelve, but I am glad we read it and that I had to read it. There is in my opinion a really really problematic attitude present with both current/modern students and probably even more so their parents that books one does not enjoy and feels offended by in any way should simply not be read (and I get this even when I am teaching German literature at the university level, but thankfully, if/when some helicopter parents make a fuss that their adult children should not be forced to read this and this piece of German literature, I can generally say that this is university but that in say Florida it is getting to the point that this so called parental rights movement also seem to extend to college and university).


message 7: by Ria (last edited Nov 06, 2023 02:00PM) (new)

Ria | 87 comments @Manybooks: the problem has to do with students only having a narrow spectrum of ideas put onto them. specifically Critical Social Justice (CSJ) ideas. if they had CSJ ideas and also ideas opposed to CSJ, you'd have a different situation.

back in the '90s, I met a group of conservatives who professed not to believe in evolution. they also knew nothing about evolutionary theory, until I explained it to them. once I did that, I could see a light shine in their eyes, like they could understand that it didn't sound as silly as they had believed.

if you give any group of people a set of circumscribed ideas, they'll believe it.


message 8: by Manybooks, Minister of Forbidden Literature (new) - added it

Manybooks | 618 comments Mod
Ria wrote: "@Manybooks: the problem has to do with students only having a narrow spectrum of ideas put onto them. specifically Critical Social Justice (CSJ) ideas. if they had CSJ ideas and also ideas opposed ..."

Yes, for that indeed! I experienced the same with the Holocaust in so far as that some foreign students at the University of Waterloo (mostly from India and Pakistan) knew nothing about the Holocaust because they had never been taught about it.


message 9: by Ria (new)

Ria | 87 comments @Manybooks: how did they react when you talked about it?


message 10: by QNPoohBear, Minister of the Unapproved Written Word (new) - rated it 4 stars

QNPoohBear | 847 comments Mod
Kelly H. (Maybedog) wrote: "I agree with all of you. The fact that it didn't resonate with the Black students of today is really relevant. I couldn't relate to the characters or situations in The Great Gatsby or Wuthering Hei..."

Exactly. In the early-mid 90s we read the canon of dead white men from Homer to John Steinbeck. I'm not a man and I don't necessarily relate to the characters but reading those books expanded my horizons.

The problem today is Common Core and all the standardized testing. If it's not on the test, they don't teach it. They no longer teach a standard survey of literature or survey of history class, at least not below the high school level. While it was super boring to have to memorize names and dates and battles, we learned the whys and hows of the past. Kids today expect everyone in the past to think the way they do and they don't understand or tolerate different belief systems from the past.

Books like Huckleberry Finn and TKAM need to be taught in the classroom in context so kids understand the time and place the book was written and the purpose of the novel. The error of thinking the book takes place in the Civil Rights Era is inexcusable! In Florida they don't even teach Jim Crow in their African American history classes so right off the bat, those kids won't be prepared for reading that sort of literature. They'll never be able to go to out of state top universities. Forget Harvard and the Ivy Leagues.


message 11: by Manybooks, Minister of Forbidden Literature (new) - added it

Manybooks | 618 comments Mod
Ria wrote: "@Manybooks: how did they react when you talked about it?"

They basically had NO idea how horrible the Holocaust was and told me that in India and in Pakistan Adolf Hitler himself was often considered positively and as someone who was a great leader (which totally freaked me out).


message 12: by QNPoohBear, Minister of the Unapproved Written Word (new) - rated it 4 stars

QNPoohBear | 847 comments Mod
Manybooks wrote: "Ria wrote: "@Manybooks: how did they react when you talked about it?"

They basically had NO idea how horrible the Holocaust was and told me that in India and in Pakistan Adolf Hitler himself was someone who was a great leader."


That's very scary especially considering they have their own issues with national identity and religious tensions.


message 13: by Manybooks, Minister of Forbidden Literature (new) - added it

Manybooks | 618 comments Mod
QNPoohBear wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Ria wrote: "@Manybooks: how did they react when you talked about it?"

They basically had NO idea how horrible the Holocaust was and told me that in India and in Pakistan Adolf Hi..."


Yeah, it really freaked me out (and they also thought that giving me the Nazi Salute was something positive, sigh). But also, should we allow international students into Canada and other Western countries without first making sure that they actually know and understand that the Holocaust was horrible and that Adolf Hitler and company were vile and depraved dictators.


message 14: by Ria (new)

Ria | 87 comments @QNPoohBear:

what the Harvard and other Ivy League students get caught matters because those students will (unless the whole system collapses, which it might) have major influence in, say, twenty years.


message 15: by QNPoohBear, Minister of the Unapproved Written Word (new) - rated it 4 stars

QNPoohBear | 847 comments Mod
Holocaust and comparable genocide is mandatory for schools in my state. I was happy to hear that. I assume high school level because I haven't heard much from my niece about that.


message 16: by Manybooks, Minister of Forbidden Literature (new) - added it

Manybooks | 618 comments Mod
QNPoohBear wrote: "Holocaust and comparable genocide is mandatory for schools in my state. I was happy to hear that. I assume high school level because I haven't heard much from my niece about that."

It would make sense to make Holocaust and genocide education mandatory on a federal level and for both public and private schools and that individual states would not be able to dictate something different. But that will likely never happen.


message 17: by Kelly (Maybedog), Minister of Illicit Reading (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly (Maybedog) (maybedog) | 871 comments Mod
Manybooks wrote: "Ria wrote: "@Manybooks: the problem has to do with students only having a narrow spectrum of ideas put onto them. specifically Critical Social Justice (CSJ) ideas. if they had CSJ ideas and also id..."

I was a TA for a class on Evil when I was a grad student at Wilfred Laurier (also in Waterloo). I was very frustrated that students in the class were trying to judge the Jews who ended up helping the Nazi's choose which of their own people to send to the concentration camps.

I was furious. Who can judge what they would do in a situation like that? When your own life is on the line? When you have a family who would also suffer and probably die?

I wasn't supposed to talk in the main lecture, but I couldn't stand it. I had to stand up and (very carefully) express this. But the one student I remember vividly was a Canadian white young man. He should have known better.


message 18: by Ria (new)

Ria | 87 comments @ Kelly H. (Maybedog),: "Canadian white young man". that says a lot less about him than you think it does.

critical theory says that people belong to a relatively more powerful or less powerful class and that the people of the more powerful class have agency whereas the lesser don't. this does not tell the whole truth. if a person chooses to endanger themselves and their families to help others, they deserve to have that celebrated.


message 19: by Kelly (Maybedog), Minister of Illicit Reading (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kelly (Maybedog) (maybedog) | 871 comments Mod
Ria wrote: "@ Kelly H. (Maybedog),: "Canadian white young man". that says a lot less about him than you think it does.

critical theory says that people belong to a relatively more powerful or less powerful cl..."


Good points.


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