Tournament of Books discussion

Opening Round 4 - The End of Drum-Time vs. The Bandit Queens

hmm, Bandit Queens, I don't know. There are some really cool concepts and some great characters in this story but it feels like the author bit off more than she could chew.

I agree with you, Caroline, about Bandit Queens. I really liked the characters, but the whole story felt way over the top to me, and I had trouble with the shifts into three stooges type humor. I suppose I am also just personally slightly bothered by the notion of willy-nilly killing people as a solution to problems.

I might have enjoyed it as dark comedy if it was consistent in tone but it was just all over the place

I keep reading 50 pages of Bandit Queens and then saying well I’ll just read this other book first then finish BQ. It’s not holding my interest. But will finish this time!!

I really liked BQ, but read it last year and not with any expectations. I do think I saw it as a dark comedy, and it made me curious about Phoolan Devi, so I read a graphic biography about her this year.

I enjoyed this for the most part, and appreciated the caste/gender elements, but like Phyllis mentioned above, the “three stooges humor” especially in the two chapters toward the end was pretty cringy. Humor is so tough to pull off in a way that consistently works for readers without getting annoying or going over the top, so I’m thinking about how that could have worked better. I’m still glad I read it and will continue to think about the story, and Phoolan Devi.

Has anyone here read the End of Drum-Time?

Yeah it's pretty great

Very interesting pairing though, if Bandit Queens kind of goes down a humorous route. There's perhaps a little bit of humor in Drum-Time, but it's a little more Wuthering-Heights-on-the-tundra.

I also read The End of Drum-Time, and I pretty well loved it.

I was also reading it concurrently with John Ehle's Civil War novel, Time of Drums. Because I couldn't resist.

Kyle wrote: "Yeah it's pretty great

Very interesting pairing though, if Bandit Queens kind of goes down a humorous route. There's perhaps a little bit of humor in Drum-Time, but it's a little more Wuthering-He..."

I love this description of The End of Drum-Time as “Wuthering-Heights-on-the-tundra.” Great description. I just finished it and loved it. It was slow to start for me, but I was 100% invested by the midpoint, and it kept getting better and better all the way through the end.

Am I the only one struggling with The End of Drum-Time? I am at page 137, and still practically nod off every time I pick it up again.

Lizzy wrote: "Am I the only one struggling with The End of Drum-Time? I am at page 137, and still practically nod off every time I pick it up again."

The book started very slow for me too, but I got really into it starting about halfway in. It’s a book with atmosphere and a definite mood that’s very different from most contemporary fiction I’ve read. It almost felt like it was written a long time ago. Once I embraced the style and started to appreciate it, I was fully invested. I ended up loving it by the end.

I just finished The Bandit Queens. I enjoyed it. For me, it seems like an over-the-top farcical kind of story, so the violence didn’t even seem real. It’s a quick, fun read. All the dialog makes the book read more like a script, and I could definitely see this made into a comedic movie or TV series. That said, The End of Drum-Time is the true work of art in this pairing, in my opinion.

I'm reading Bandit Queens now, and it seems ok so far. But I've been looking forward to The End of Drum-Time ever since it came out. It's sitting in my TBR pile right now, staring at me longingly; unfortunately, I have a few books that have waiting lists for them that I have to read first. These are the last two ToF books and then I'm done and will just be awaiting the actual Tournament!

Ellen wrote: "I'm reading Bandit Queens now, and it seems ok so far. But I've been looking forward to The End of Drum-Time ever since it came out. It's sitting in my TBR pile right now, staring at me longingly; ..."

As always, I am so impressed by the volume of reading that you and our other commentariat members do! I am reading "Birnam Wood" now, and still have several more ToF entries to finish. Of course, I've also not yet read "James", so I need to Get On It before the start of Camp ToB shortly ....

Hey, I've still got 4 of the Camp ToB books to read, and I've gone on a bender of stockpiling library books; current total: 22 (including Bandit Queens, End of Drum-Time, Martyr!, and a couple of the other Camp ToB books, with a couple holds yet to come). I'm overwhelmed with books. But what a joyful state to be in!

P.S. Is the school year over for you now? You should have all that summer time to read!

Ellen wrote: "P.S. Is the school year over for you now? You should have all that summer time to read!"

The school year is never "over" for me. I teach all year 'round. :-)

Whoa. That kinda sucks.

Ellen wrote: "Whoa. That kinda sucks."

Well, luckily, I love what I do. That helps! :-)

Lucky indeed!

Kyle wrote: "I was also reading it concurrently with John Ehle's Civil War novel, Time of Drums. Because I couldn't resist."

Whoa. That is high-level coordinating awesomeness. I've read Ehle's The Free Men. Sobering eye-opening book which I read right after I moved to NC.

oh isn't that Jennifer Ehle's dad?

He is indeed!

Just finished End of Drum-Time, and well, WOW. Now that's a book.

I think I may have finished all the ToF books now!

ETA: Yes, I have. And in each of the four match-ups, I have one 5-star book, which is the clear winner for me. Sure hope you wonderful judges agree!

Finally to finish up round one, we have a judgement from Care (aka BkClubClare):

"“Let the reindeer decide.”

Oh, how I wished for a nearby reindeer farm and to be able to approach one of these majestic creatures with the choice between these two books. “Which would you choose, Blitzen?” I would posit. Why did I ever agree to deliver a judgment between any two books at all; and then, why these two!? Both are quite good.

I have spent the last two weeks mulling over which one I “enjoyed” more, or which was more literary to my internal book-snob? Which one has a higher threadcount or which one gave me that transportive feeling of being swept away into the story? Do I prefer Capital-C Complexity or do I like Comedy? Which one would my mom like?

I read The Bandit Queens back in June of last year. A story set in India around Geeta and the disappearance of her husband. It’s a culture clash, men against women, women supporting women story, and a sweet revenge tale. I gave it 5 stars. I recently read The End of Drum-Time, a tale set in the 19th century Lapland territories: think Norway, Sweden, Finland, Russia. This too is a culture clash, more like a culture smash; bringing religion and economics into play. Actually, same words might be said of Bandit Queens.

I decided to look further into what these two titles shared, in hopes to explore which did it better. Both focus on gender power or the lack of it. Both books introduce a real person to the mix that sparks curiosity of how fiction makes history come alive in ways more true than real events. In terms of any humorous element, The Bandit Queens delivers more comedy, and yet I might also entertain the idea that Willa and Ivvár’s initial flirting added a bit of fun - - but alas, it was actually painful against a futile future. Both books use alcoholism as a theme and both explore the support of women to each other. In this especially, Drum-Time is more complex. The very last scene when Risten looks for Willa in support and respect, but Willa must choose her sister… the bond, the respect, and recognition were keenly felt.

“First we were flowers, then we die.” (from Hanna P’s Acknowledgements, page 347)

The End of Drum-Time was just darn bleak. I am not sure I hated a character more than Henrik’s uncle. (Oh, yes, I admit I wanted Henrik to use that gun on Frans and not on that poor old reindeer Borge!) That scene was palpably distressing. Many scenes in this book were tense.

I have to say it: The Bandit Queens was more fun. It is one I would recommend to more of my reader friends. Though I admire much about the style and wordsmith skill (I like to call it “threadcount” - it’s more tightly woven) of Hanna Pylväinen, it is the character of Geeta, created by author Parini Shroff that I celebrate here. Geeta survives stronger and with a new sense of self-respect. Finally, I appreciated Shroff’s Author’s Note about why she made the choices she made in this story.

My choice is The Bandit Queens"

oh I love the concept of 'thread count!' Thank you for this judgment <3

Caroline wrote: "oh I love the concept of 'thread count!' Thank you for this judgment <3"

I was going to say the same thing. I'm going to rate all my books' thread count from now on!

I think I would have gone the same way. I read Drum Time when it was longlisted for the NBA, and found it really interesting, peeking into a culture I knew nothing about. But a few months later I don't remember much about it, unfortunately. The Bandit Queens I read over a year ago, and still remember it well. Not a perfect novel, but highly engaging. (I did it on audio, which was excellent!)

Thanks for your judgment, Care!

Spectacular job here, Care! Agree with Caroline and Elizabeth -- the "thread count" metaphor is so good! (Side note: I recently read an article explaining why higher thread count does not necessarily mean better sheets. But, I digress ....)

I have to tell you, I thought Drum Time was one of the most relentlessly grim novels I've read in a long time. Many beautiful passages, yes. At least one character whose fate I cared a lot about, yes. But: So. Damn. Bleak! What I said in my GR review:

"I can see why my fellow Tournament of Favorites participants chose it, even if, in our wondrously competitive field, it won’t end up as my favorite. It is partly a matter of pacing (one needs a lot of patience to make one’s way through the first 1/4 of the novel), but probably more so a case of personal timing. Given all that is happening now, I’m not in the right headspace for a depiction — no matter how skillfully done — of the consequences of unchecked power wielded by weak, small-minded, intolerant men."

Still true for me!

Though Bandits also tackled a very dark subject, it did so with verve and (against all odds) humor. It wasn't my favorite of the tournament, but I enjoyed spending time in that world, whereas I had to drag myself to the end of Drum Time. {See what I did there?]

Anyway, Care - five gold stars to you for this decision.

Loved your judgment, Care, but I -- strongly -- would have gone the other way. I did enjoy The Bandit Queens, but I found The End of Drum-Time transcendent. Again, who knows why one book grabs someone and why another does not? I will say that I have a weakness for books about Scandinavia (and Iceland). Yes, it was grim -- but its story and writing were to me extraordinary.

Anyway. On to the next.

Just to add to the chorus, I also want to start using “thread count.” Thank you for that, and this judgment, Care!

I probably also would have selected The Bandit Queens, but looking back over my notes I see that both of these books provided profound insights on important issues (and historical figures/injustices), although in very different ways.

The End of Drum-Time felt very long and the first half was a slog for me. The ending really picked up though, and I appreciate the subjects and themes woven through the story.

While The Bandit Queens sometimes got into cringe/eye roll territory, it was a fun read with a quick pace, and I was always engaged in the story.

Thanks to all who are making this bonus tournament a success!

Ooh, yes, I also love "thread count."

For me, Drum-Time was high-threadcount drugs.

Me. Too

Thanks Care! Yes Bandits was funny and enjoyable. But I would have gone the other way. Drum-time really was moving; high thread count yes!!