Victorians! discussion

There's a Trollope thread, but rather than necropost I thought I'd start a new one; obviously this should be deleted if not acceptable.

I think of Trollope as my favorite Victorian author and I firmly believe that there's nothing in the Victorian canon to equal his two great six-novel series, but in all honesty I'm finding him to be a little tough sledding these days. I've kvetched in The Belton Estate thread and rather than continue off-topic I've started a thread here.

I've read the best-known other novels, The Way We Live Now, Is He Popenjoy?, He Knew He was Right. I have my own candidate for relatively unknown gem, The Claverings, which is every bit as good as the best of the Barsetshire and Palliser books. But what else? I recently ran across a mention of Ralph the Heir as among his best and I'll give it a go.

So, I'm curious. What are people's favorite non-Barsetshire, non-Palliser Trollope novels? I've still got about 20 novels to go but I'd just as soon avoid the stinkers. At least the stinkers I haven't read yet. :)

I have read most of Trollope’s full length novels. I agree with you that The Claverings is one of his best.

One or two I have not finished because they annoyed/ frustrated/ bored me.

He Knew He Was Right just left me drained and I wasn’t sure if I was glad or sad that I had read it. I wasn’t keen on the Irish and Australian novels because Trollope seems to write about English/Scottish society with greater authenticity.

I enjoyed Miss Mackenzie even though it was a little different from the usual Trollope offerings. The Bertrams is a kind of prequel to Miss Mackenzie but I don’t think it is as good. It doesn’t have to be read first but some of the characters in The Bertrams reappear in Miss Mackenzie.

Two other stand alone novels which I enjoyed were Orley Farm and Ralph the Heir.

I love Ayala’s Angel. I have to admit that I really disliked The Way We Live Now when I read it years ago.

Responding to both posts above:

Thanks! That gives me four titles to cue up with some assurance. My last two Trollopes were Belton Estate and Nina Balatka,, neither good, and the latter is in line with Trev's comment on the Ireland/Australia novels; Trolllope had no authenticity writing about a Catholic/Jewish romance in Prague! So warning taken; I've already had a false start on The Kellys and the O'Kellys and I'm going to let it go.

I also had issues with both The Way We Live Now and He Knew He was Right. But at least they were books of substance and rewarded the reading, I thought; both would have benefited from being shorter.

I'll throw out another title I thought a cut above: The American Senator.

Thanks again for the thoughtful and helpful responses. And I'm still taking titles! ;)

All the ones I was going to suggest have already been mentioned, so I'll just add my agreement to Miss Mackenzie and Orley Farm - I really enjoyed both of those. I've also had The American Senator recommended to me but haven't read it yet - maybe this will inspire me to move it to the top of the pile. His autobiography is also very entertaining!

I also REALLY struggled with The Way We Live Now - it was the first Trollope I read and I hated it and would most likely never have given him another chance if a friend hadn't persuaded me to try The Warden. I think of him as one of my favourite Victorian authors but I admit I have also been disappointed in several of his books and goodness I do wish he could have been less repetitive!

Chiming in about Trollope - I'm currently reading Miss MacKenzie and shockingly it's turning out to be my favorite I've read by him so far!

Other enjoyable reads were Rachel Ray, Lady Anna, and He Knew He Was Right.

Lorna wrote: "All the ones I was going to suggest have already been mentioned, so I'll just add my agreement to Miss Mackenzie and Orley Farm - I really enjoyed both of those. I've also had The American Senator ..."

My first Trollope was The Eustace Diamonds. I didn’t like it, but there was something in it that made me decide to give him another chance. I don’t remember what the second book was, maybe The Warden.

Nancy wrote: "..I've already had a false start on The Kellys and the O'Kellys and I'm going to let it go.."

Jane Smiley's review of The Kellys and the O'Kellys:

Every time I read the novel, I am astonished at Trollope's grasp of social relationships, the intricacies of human character, and the competing demands of desire and conscience. We expect that in the later novels - Phineas Finn, for instance, which was published when Trollope was 54 - but what is clear from The Kellys is that his gift was not developed, it was largely inherent. As William Trevor remarks in the introduction to the Oxford edition of 1982, "One is constantly aware of a fine imagination at work, of instinct playing on what has been observed . . . His Ireland is the Ireland he sensed with his novelist's nose, and he sensed it perfectly." Trollope's talent, as his subsequent series (the Barchester and Palliser novels) demonstrate, was that he could grasp whole social systems. With its varied settings, its political chapters and its carefully delineated class distinctions, The Kellys and the O'Kellys constitutes a blueprint for his artistic future.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/200...

What a great topic. I have had so many reads on the go that I didn't have time to join in on The Belton Estate, but I remember it not being a real winner for me. After I read Jane Smiley's review, I did revisit The Kellys, and remember liking it more than I had expected. A stand-alone that I don't think anyone has mentioned and that I found very moving and thought-provoking was The Vicar of Bullhampton.

Looking at the overall list, I realize that I have not gone back to the later novels for re-reads as much. Maybe it's time to do a second read of Dr. Wortle's School.

Must agree about The Claverings - terrific book. The very first Trollope I read was Orley Farm, and that too is very impressive.

The following is my rankings of the Trollope stand-alones that I have read. Except for The Fixed Period, my rankings exactly track the GR ratings so I am very much the 'average' Trollope reader. How boring.

--MY -----—--GR -----
RATING------RATING------------ NOVEL
--5----------4.06 ---------- The Way We Live Now
--4----------4.04 ---------- The Vicar of Bullhampton
--4----------4.00 ---------- The Claverings
--4----------3.97 ---------- Ayala's Angel
--4----------3.94 ---------- Orley Farm
--4----------3.91 ---------- The Belton Estate
--4----------3.91 ---------- Miss Mackenzie
--4----------3.06 ---------- The Fixed Period
--3----------3.88 ---------- He Knew He Was Right
--3----------3.84 ---------- Dr. Wortle's School
--3----------3.81 ---------- Rachel Ray
--3----------3.69 ---------- Lady Anna

A Trollope mentioned here that interests me is The American Senator which has a 3.95 GR rating. So if form holds, I should enjoy it slightly less than Ayala's Angel and slightly more than Orley Farm. I'd take that.

I’ve been eyeing The American Senator for awhile now as well. :)

For Trollope lovers, The Trollope Society holds a biweekly big read in which various novels are read at the rate of about a chapter a day, with a meeting held every two weeks on Monday evening in the UK, 3 pm in the afternoon EST. It's in person over zoom, and the format is a 20' presentation, 20' in breakout groups in which in theory everyone gets a chance to speak, then come back to the full group for final discussion. There are participants from all over the world. You can join for free, but of course they hope you will join the Society and/or make a donation to cover their costs. I've been doing this for a couple of years and it's really enjoyable, and similar to the format here of "slow reads". I will post the link as well for anyone interested in checking it out.

https://trollopesociety.org/bulletin/...

is the link to check this out and register if you choose.