Classics and the Western Canon discussion

Our time in Iceland with Bjartur, his family and his sheep is drawing short, so it’s time to plan ahead for our next read. We have this week for discussion of the choices, and the poll will run next week with the third 2024 read scheduled to start June 12. The random number generator has come up with six possibilities:

NOMINEES FOR THE NEXT READ

The Song of Roland plus selected troubadour songs by Anonymous
Ficciones by Jorge Luis Borges
Italian Journey by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
The Portrait of a Lady by Henry James
Beloved by Toni Morrison
Ethics by Baruch Spinoza

So what are you in the mood for next? A philosophic exploration of the divine and the human in Spinoza’s Ethics? Short stories from the fantastic imagination of Borges with Ficciones? Observations and theories from writer/scientist/polymath Goethe’s journal of his Italian Journey? Poetic adventures in a medieval epic and troubadour songs with The Song of Roland? Or maybe a novel is what you want; Toni Morrison’s Beloved recounts the aftermath of an escape from slavery in nineteenth century America, and Henry James’ The Portrait of a Lady traces a young American’s transformative encounters in Europe.

Which one(s) are you interested in reading? This week of discussion offer a chance to get more information about the choices and to lobby for your pick(s).

Here's the upcoming schedule:

May 8 Laxness Week 9 & Next read member discussion
May 15 Laxness Week 10 & Next read poll
May 22. Laxness Week 11 & Run-off poll if needed
May 29. Interim Week 1 & Acquire book week 1
June 5. Interim Week 2 & Acquire book week 2
June 12. Begin 3rd Read 2024

What do you want to read? Any thoughts or comments?

I vote Portrait of a Lady, although Roland and Goethe are also enticing.

The Song of Roland has been in my to-read for centuries, so it would be a wonderful goal to accomplish. Borjes is phantastic and it's been a while since I've read anything Spanish. And it would also be nice to dive into philosophy with Spinoza after this novel we are finishing. Hum...

I am very familiar with the Borges and I love it, but for a new read, I think I will choose Spinoza's Ethics.
What did it mean to lead an ethical life in the 17th century? I know that Spinoza held that God is present in all things, and the human mind is a part of God's infinite intellect. Where does this line of thought lead?
I am also intrigued by Spinoza's notion that ethics could be deduced like the propositions in Euclidean geometry.

Voting is now open through May 21 to choose our next read. Here’s the poll: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

I've never read Spinoza but have always been curious about him and would like to learn more. I vaguely remember the Theological Political Treatise coming up as a poll selection, once upon a time. I glanced at it briefly and found his deism (if that's what it is) sort of intriguing, and strangely modern.

On the other hand, the only James I've touched is Turn of the Screw. Portrait of a Lady has been on my TBR for ages, and it sounds like a good one to read with the group.

Five Books has a good interview on Spinoza books with Steven Nadler, who with Goldstein is a popular secondary source. I haven’t read much of it in 50 years. But feel like I should.

I quite liked Nadler's A Book Forged in Hell: Spinoza's Scandalous Treatise and the Birth of the Secular Age, which is mostly concerned with the Theological-Political treatise. From what I remember it's a fairly easy read, not terribly technical. I'll have to check out the interview. Thanks for the tip, Alan!

Just a reminder — you can cast your vote for the next read through Tuesday May 21 (Pacific time). Here’s the link to the poll: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/1...

The voters have spoken, and our third read for 2024 will be Spinoza’s Ethics. The read starts June 12. Here is a summary of the votes:

Ethics — 6 raw votes, 14 weighted votes
Portrait of a Lady — 5 raw votes, 8 weighted votes
Ficciones — 4 raw votes, 8 weighted votes
Song of Roland — 3 raw votes, 7 weighted votes
Italian Voyage — 2 raw votes, 2 weighted votes
Beloved — 1 raw vote, 1 weighted vote

Brilliant. Sorry I was of line but I would normally never read something like Spinoza, especially in English. And in a way, that is my main reason I joined the group, and I hope you will not chuck me out for lack of intellectualism. What would you expect of a Czech retired doctor who has no talent for faith?
I might start reading it this weekend. Or how does it work?

Eva wrote: "Brilliant. Sorry I was of line but I would normally never read something like Spinoza, especially in English. And in a way, that is my main reason I joined the group, and I hope you will not chuck ..."

Welcome, Eva! The discussion of Spinoza’s Ethics will start June 12. Thomas who will be moderating the read will post a schedule when the time gets closer.

This week and next week we have interim reads. The interim reads offer a “palate cleanser” between major reads like “Independent People” and “Ethics” as well as giving people time to obtain their books for the next major read. The interim reads are always available online. This week’s offering is “The Other Wife” by Colette: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Eva wrote: "Brilliant. Sorry I was of line but I would normally never read something like Spinoza, especially in English. And in a way, that is my main reason I joined the group, and I hope you will not chuck me out for lack of intellectualism"

Hi Eva! One of the reasons we go straight to the source and avoid secondary material like commentaries is to avoid intellectualism, so you're safe with us. Glad you're joining us!

And I'm not sure a talent for faith is going to be needed with Spinoza. I've only dipped into the first few pages but he seems to be more interested in arguing from principles and logical inference than faith. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

sounds great

Hello,
I am joining for the first time. I know Spinoza will be a challenging read for me, but I initially joined the group for the educational purposes, and studying is never a piece of cake.
I am in Slovenia and to my surprise it's hard to find this book in English in regular libraries (apart from the University libraries, but I am no longer a student and thus not a member). I considered reading it in Slovene, but this might limit my ability to join in the discussion here, I need to share the terminology in the languguage of the discussion. So I will probably be ordering from Wordery, and be a little late for the start. I am very excited and can't wait to dive into it though!

Angelina wrote: "Hello,
I am joining for the first time. I know Spinoza will be a challenging read for me, but I initially joined the group for the educational purposes, and studying is never a piece of cake.
I a..."

I believe that you can read in Slovene and when commenting explain what the concept is, because even if you read it in English, the different translators could maybe use different terminologies for the same ideas. So, reading in English will not guarantee that the same words will appear attached to same concepts.

Are you suggesting a particular version/translation? I am confused by the offers I see on Amazon. (Was hoping to take advantage of an offer of extra kindle points today -- but, oh, well....)

I have the translation by R. H. M. Elwes.

And I ordered the one translated by W.H.White and A.K.Stirling

I haven't compared translations so I can't recommend any one in particular, but there is an intriguing translation by George Eliot, recently edited by Clare Carlisle. More about Eliot's relationship with Spinoza here:

https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roun...

I have Curley's translation at hand here, so I'm going with that for now.

I have the Eliot translation.

I downloaded the Project Gutenberg edition.

Rafael wrote: "...different translators could maybe use different terminologies for the same ideas..."

Rafael, I agree with you. I am reading the Tomaz Tadeu's Portuguese version. And I have already noticed that he uses some words different from what I used to associate with Spinoza (afetos x afecções, for instance). And the book is so well organized into definitions, axioms, propositions that I do not think it will be a problem to follow even with my Portuguese version.

Monica wrote: "Rafael wrote: "...different translators could maybe use different terminologies for the same ideas..."

Rafael, I agree with you. I am reading the Tomaz Tadeu's Portuguese version. And I have alrea..."

Where is Tadeu from? Maybe his version is different from what you remember because he is from another lusophone country. Afecção is the Portuguese version of the word that in Brazil we write as afeto.

Rafael wrote: "...Where is Tadeu from?..."

Rafael, good point. But it seems that Tomaz Tadeu is Brazilian. A few pieces of information that I have found in internet say that he gratuated in UFRGS and he constantly works with Editora Autêntica, located in MG. In the introduction, the editor says "O tradutor concentrou-se no propósito de produzir um texto que... estivesse mais de acordo com a língua presentemente utilizada no Brasil". But your observation makes me wonder why did he use a Portuguese version of this word. And it is quite an important definition through the whole book.

Yeah. It's an odd choice.