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Swing Time
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Swing Time by Zadie Smith
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”A truth was being revealed to me: that I had always tried to attach myself to the light of other people, that I had never had any light of my own. I experienced myself as a kind of shadow.”I’ve no idea where we are headed, but this is the sort of passage that tempts me on.
”How he loved her! More than she knew or cared to know, she was someone who lived in her own dreamscape, who presumed that everyone around her was at all times feeling exactly as she was. And so when she began, first slowly, and then with increasing speed, to outgrow my father, both intellectually and personally, she naturally expected that he was undergoing the same process at the same time. But he carried on as before.”I rarely encounter an author that knows how to use adverbs to enhance, but without relying on them for emphasis. I’m just such a fan of Smith’s storytelling choices.
Carol wrote: "”How he loved her! More than she knew or cared to know, she was someone who lived in her own dreamscape, who presumed that everyone around her was at all times feeling exactly as she was. And so wh..."Ah yea, the dance theme continues- I like that.
Yea I'm enjoying her long, lush sentences! This is one of a number of things that are actually reminding me of a recent read- an Italian classic- Elsa Morante's Lies and Sorcery, which was quite an epic soap opera and I loved it.
I'm in part 3 now and finding this read very interesting, very readable. The context has shifted from youth/growing up to the world of the pop star, and the views on the "isms" are getting more angles.
Reviewing reviews of ZSmith, it seems she's another pretty divisive writer- alot of love and alot of disappointment out there. And alot of people indicating she tackles so much and the stories take alot of turns. So, along with the story being pretty captivating, these ideas of this writer have me very curious to see how all this unfolds.
Jen wrote: "Carol wrote: "”How he loved her! More than she knew or cared to know, she was someone who lived in her own dreamscape, who presumed that everyone around her was at all times feeling exactly as she ..."I'm on page 118, and have been in the world of our narrator (can't remember her name, do we even know it?) working with/for Aimee for some time. The last I read was when they were out getting high somewhere to "loosen up" our narrator. I loved the attention Smith put into making the bodyguard a real, fully fleshed out character, but without taking a dozen pages to do so. All of the fussing with the maps and the bikes cracked me up.
She is - and I'm uncertain why. I don't recall anyone complaining about Adichie's many rabbit holes in Americanah, for example. I love having that, if only I could stay up late and keep reading this, feeling and - at the same time - once we left Tracey and our narrators' parents behind, I wasn't at all sure what the trajectory was, but Smith takes me with her because her transitions are effortless and immediately captivating. I don't feel like I have to work or to commit to pages of introductory discourse or rambling. She's laser-focused on her characters and their perceptions.
The one thing that seemed a bit out of the blue to me was the firm, "I don't want to have kids because I saw what it did to my mom" conversation. From what Smith gave us of their mom, she created the space and room she needed from the very beginning. They were out on Saturday for most of the day so she could study; she handed off kid-related meetings to her husband. She attended the occasional parent night at school, but that's not some huge commitment on one's calendar. I didn't think Smith gave us anything before that in the book to support our narrator's thinking or its basis. (to be clear, not challenging any woman or character's decision to be child-free.) I would have fully understood, "I don't want to get married," based on how unsatisfying their marriage was for her mom. "I don't want to have kids," seemed out of left field.
Mmm. Yea. That line- good point… yea mom seemed to have her needs met. Maybe it alludes to something yet to be revealed.And omg yea! The humor! The bit with Granger was funny yea but she had me seriously L-O-L with the mom’s digging and clay wheel throwing.
Jen wrote: "Mmm. Yea. That line- good point… yea mom seemed to have her needs met. Maybe it alludes to something yet to be revealed.And omg yea! The humor! The bit with Granger was funny yea but she had me s..."
The clay wheels- I forgot! What a splendid recovery! Yeah, no I wasn’t intending to grow vegetables. I want to use the clay for projects, yeah, that’s right! Let’s gather around and explore ceramics!
I actually was in awe of her dad’s willingness to enable her mom’s impulses without raising an eyebrow.
😂 after “speechifying” from the garden up to the apartment window all about lettuces mid-dig. No no, great we found the clay! And the result! (view spoiler) 🤣🤣
I didn't make a lot of headway last night - my brain was flitting - but I got just past page 150 or so, covering Tracey (view spoiler), and the endless, awful birthday outing.I think I ended with reading about Aimee's approach to solving global problems like poverty and girls' education by... building a single school in a place not yet selected, which teed up one of my favorite passages to-date: Narrator's mom and her NGO-familiar GF commenting on Aimee's school plan. I totally love N's mom, the way she thinks and speaks. She's a boundary-crosser, but not really, more a fantastic challenger. I can't recall another book I've read that has allowed the middle-aged mom of a main character to be this real, interesting, passionate, authentic. She's not just a prop for our narrator to reflect their inner thoughts. She's her entire own person.
This isn't original to me, since I read it yesterday in a friend's review, but I am a bit disappointed that our narrator doesn't seem to have much of an interior life and little growth to-date. What is she even doing working for Aimee? What does she want to do with her life, even in the next 5 years? It's not clear that she's staying busy and avoiding thinking about these things, or that she's depressed or stuck or [fill in the blank]. She just seems to be drifting without even the self-awareness that she's drifting. And then there's Tracey. At this point, our narrator is - what - 26, 27? she's had plenty of time to figure out that Tracey isn't her BFF. Why hasn't she engaged in any introspection or made other friends, even friends of convenience? I recently finished another novel where the (far less talented) author kept identifying two characters as best friends when, even when they were in their teens, it was clear from their behavior, values, priorities, that they weren't. As characters age within a novel, this sort of thing gets on my last nerve because you have to do more than label someone; there has to be some believable basis for drawing the conclusion, or some connection that makes them best friends only in a certain context. In ST, Tracey and the narrator naturally drifted apart, then you layer in the event in their 20s, and .. come on ZS, give me a reason to believe in the relevance of this relationship to our girl.
Yea, mom is a great character! She feels very real, complex. Flawed but lovable and obviously has been great comic relief.I been working out my thoughts about your thoughts... and yea. I think you're right about the drifting unaware and sort of emptiness or lack of interior life, but I don't feel anything amiss with that and not at this stage in the story. I guess my feeling is- 20s is pretty young and this is about someone who has had an inclination to live in someone's shadow. I think she is someone not in tune with herself and Smith has been showing that parents and poverty and racism have played a part in that. Yea dad seemed caring and sweet and domestic but I don't have the impression the parents were curious who she is as an individual and maybe we are meant to see the low-key depressing repercussions of that? But with/because of Aimee, there seems to be some self-understanding on the brink of emerging- or so I hope- as she is confronted with Aimee's white/rich privilege and ignorance over and over. One of my favorite passages so far was about the painting they had a laugh at because the woman looked like manager Judy. After some repulsive Aimee behavior, she began to think of and identify with the black child in the painting who is gazing at the woman but the woman "did not look back at him, she never could, she'd been painted in such a way as to make that impossible. But hadn't I also avoided his eye...". She's been invisible to others and she's been blind to herself. But she "could see this little Moor now with absolute clarity... as if he were standing on the path before me." So ZS has got me hopeful for narrator's inner child healing and growth. Fixation on Tracey must play into this and I'm eager to see that thread unravel. And these deep hurts our narrator seems to have that she seems unaware of but come out when she sings (or when Whitney sings!)!
And then there's the mystery of the falling out/scandal whatever it is relating to Aimee and what is with Lamin from the prologue? He's introduced around the middle where I am!
1. You’ve persuaded me in all points, but what I am truly grateful for is you reminding me to reread the prologue. I had forgotten every word as well as, I need to look out for a character named Lamin.2. I totally forgot about dad’s other set of kids. I’m on page 157 reading about his funeral (which they AND Aimee attended — how utterly weird that would have been), and loved this:
”And I, who couldn’t cry, once again found them both to be far more convincing children of my father than I had ever been. And yet, in our family, we had never wanted to admit this unlikelihood, we always batted away what we considered to be the banal and prurient curiosity of strangers — “But won’t she grow up confused?” “How will she choose between your cultures?” — to the point that sometimes I felt the whole purpose of my childhood was to demonstrate to the less enlightened that I was not confused and had no trouble choosing. “Life is confusing” — my mother’s imperious rebuff. But isn’t there also a deep expectation of sameness between parent and child? I think I was strange to my mother and to my father, a changeling belonging to neither one of them, and although of course this is true of all children, in the end — we are not our parents and they are not us — my father’s children would have come to this knowledge with a certain slowness, over years,were perhaps only learning it fully at this very moment as the flames ate the pinewood, whereas I was born knowing it, I have always known it, it is a truth stamped all over my face.
There’s just so so much to unpack. I read it 4 or 5 times..
Part IV, entitled Middle Passage. Well, nothing good is foreshadowed by that header 😳😳. And I turn the page and see that Lamin is here.
Ohhh that long passage you shared yeaaa. It’s so much. I love it. "to demonstrate to the less enlightened that I was not confused and had no trouble choosing" - it often, for me, calls to mind this point Toni Morrison expressed perfectly:
The function, the very serious function of racism is distraction. It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you explaining, over and over again, your reason for being…
And I feel like ZS gives us this sentiment in another place in ST too, in 3.2-
What could she know about the waves of time that simply come at a person, one after the other? What could she know about life as the temporary, always partial, survival of that process?
And "a changeling belonging to neither... always known it"- I mean I'm thinking of "otherness" and how deep that it is in her and how lonely that is... but oh I loved the mom in this bit- imperiously "Life is confusing!" Hello, thank you! And couldn't that be ZS' response to the complaints her books are packed with too much.
Yea. Aimee coming to the funeral, I mean the level of oblivious is enraging. I keep thinking ZS has really given us someone we love to hate.
I’m gonna join you in revisiting the prologue! I was planning to do that at some point cuz I wanna watch the vid you linked of her reading it!Have you been thinking about her music references? I think when she was young, narrator was singing All of Me with piano player at the dance studio. I mean talk about a song about having no self worth. "take all of me, can't you see I'm no good without you". A child singing this! A child who is apparently gifted not super technically but in capturing the feeling of a song. Oof. I'm concerned about that child.
And I was trying to figure out the Gypsy song she sings when Aimee drags her out to a piano bar but I don’t know that musical and can’t figure it out but I read Gypsy’s themes are “1) The struggles of life in the theatre as performers chase their dreams of stardom, and 2) the universal story of a mother/daughter relationship”.
And what Whitney song could it be that broke her down? I Have Nothing could do it...
Gypsy is really difficult (the story). Mom’s tough as nails; daughter has no choice or autonomy. My guess on the song is the finale, Rose’s Turn. Here she is, boys!
Here she is, world!
Here's Rose!
Curtain up!
Light the lights!
Play it, boys!
Ya either got it, or ya ain't.
And, boys, I got it!
Ya like it?
Well, I got it!
Some people got it and make it pay.
Some people can't even give it away.
This people's got it
and this people's spreadin' it around!
You either have it
or you've had it!
Hello, everybody! My name is Rose! What's yours?
How do you like them eggrolls, Mr. Goldstone?
Hold your hats and hallelujah.
Mama's gonna show it to you.
Ready or not, shhh, here comes Mama.
Mama's talkin' loud.
Mama's doin' fine.
Mama's gettin' hot.
Mama's goin' stong.
Mama's movin' on.
Mama's all alone.
Mama doesn't care.
Mama's lettin' loose.
Mama's got the stuff.
Mama's lettin' go.
Mama?
Mama's got the stuff.
Mama's gotta move.
Mama's gotta go.
Mama? Mama?
Mama's gotta let go.
Why did I do it?
What did it get me?
Scrapbooks full of me in the background.
Give 'em love and what does it get ya?
What does it get ya?
One quick look as each of 'em leaves you.
All your life and what does it get ya?
Thanks a lot and out with the garbage,
They take bows and you're battin' zero.
I had a dream.
I dreamed it for you, June.
It wasn't for me, Herbie.
And if it wasn't for me
then where would you be,
Miss Gypsy Rose Lee?
Well, someone tell me, when is it my turn?
Don't I get a dream for myself?
Starting now it's gonna be my turn.
Gangway, world, get off of my runway!
Starting now I bat a thousand!
This time, boys, I'm taking the bows and
Everything's coming up Rose!
Everything's coming up roses!
Everything's coming up roses
this time for me!
For me! For me! For me! For me! For me!
For me!
Jen wrote: "I’m gonna join you in revisiting the prologue! I was planning to do that at some point cuz I wanna watch the vid you linked of her reading it!Have you been thinking about her music references? I ..."
I haven’t been paying attention to the music references. Oops! I’ve been so focused on what’s happening to her or what she’s experiencing that I missed some big clues there. I do love her deep appreciation for mid-century classics, show tunes, Billie Holliday and contemporaries. It makes her relationship with Aimee even more surprising and intriguing, too, because she’s never star-struck per se.
Saving All My Love For You always struck me as breathtakingly sad but my response to it might not be representative:)
I’m in the middle of part 5 now. Plenty more mom and it’s goooood in part 5. But I don’t wanna say more :)But also maybe let’s talk about mom and narrator after you’ve read 4.9 please!
Oh and thanks for the gypsy possibility! Gonna look that up and listen!
Jen wrote: "I’m in the middle of part 5 now. Plenty more mom and it’s goooood in part 5. But I don’t wanna say more :)But also maybe let’s talk about mom and narrator after you’ve read 4.9 please!"
My goal is to get through all of part 4 tonight. Will do !
On page 190, Smith mentions, Can’t Help Lovin’ That Man of Mine”, from Show Boat, a tragedy upon tragedy musical based on the Edna Ferber . book. The song itself isn’t sad, but it leans into the inevitability of being with someone who might not be good for you. Like Tracey.
Oh. Jen. 1. On page 196, when Carripachano asks the narrator, “But what does it mean when she is saying to me: ‘Let’s make a kind of illuminated ethos’?” I can’t stop laughing at this nonsense sentence.2. Jeni Le Gon, according to wiki one of the first African American women to have a solo career as a tap dancer.
https://www.thehistorymakers.org/biog...
And this article discusses LeGon’s life and career, and discusses Zadie Smith’s inclusion of LeGon in Swing Time. There are a couple of photos from Ali Baba, too, showing the actors in blackface. Spoiler warning, for broad statements at the end of the article about our narrator and LeGon’s impact on her.
https://www2.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/...
Hahahaha! it’s like girl power blah blah- should I listen to this album?- I really don’t think it’ll help 🤣 yessss
I finished 4.9. And there it is. Edited comment 16. Oh, Narrator’s Mom. How could you blow it this badly? And this after the, we’re going to live as brother and sister because we can’t afford to divorce. So our girl is … what? 12? 13? Living in a Cold War marriage zone, being denied her dance classes, fitted into her mom’s projected dreams, fighting for Tracey’s attention. And Thatcher’s on tv. That alone…
I’m at part 5, chapter 2. She has such empathy for her daddy. And that club episode where she has sex, and she and her mom took Tracey to the ER. I couldn’t look away.
Jen wrote: "Hahahaha! it’s like girl power blah blah- should I listen to this album?- I really don’t think it’ll help 🤣 yessss"That was just the best exchange. And he cemented my respect with his response to her stunt in Hawa’s classroom.
Carol wrote: "Saving All My Love For You always struck me as breathtakingly sad but my response to it might not be representative:)..."Was listening to a Greatest Hits yesterday. Saving All My Love! Also a great song. I get a more wistfully sad vibe but I Have Nothing is the power ballad that'll break a person down with its pain and desperation. Cuts to the core and doesn't even take long to do so. And the sentiment is akin to All of Me now that I think of it- ready to give oneself to another regardless what it means giving up of yourself cuz you so need the love.
Share my life
Take me for what I am
'Cause I'll never change
All my colors for you
Take my love
I'll never ask for too much
...
I don't really need to look, very much further
I don't wanna have to go
Where you don't follow
...
-and then belting it out!-
I don't wanna hurrrrt anymore!
...
Don't walk away from meeee!
I have nothing nothing nothinnnnng!
Oof. I'll get chills just thinking of Whitney singing this, painfully alone, not being seen, abandoned. More and more I'm seeing this book as about abandonment, its many faces.
Ok thanks! Don't remember the Showboat reference in the book. Gotta have a listen to that too!
Carol wrote: "I finished 4.9. And there it is. Edited comment 16. Oh, Narrator’s Mom. How could you blow it this badly? And this after the, we’re going to life as brother and sister because we can’t afford to d..."
Ohhh. Ok. 4.9. I wasn't clear on it, thanks for pointing the way. Cuz I was like- ok, it looks like the school she had lined up doesn't seem great and she even knows it. She is like "well at least comfort in numbers"- she'll know some people there. And then this whole train analogy at the end- she GETS that she's been presented a great opportunity, she gets other people, countless people, haven't had that, she's grasping the unfairness of life- so I was like why did she just F off on the test?? It's a rebellion against her mother??
You got me examining mom's behavior more closely. The silence and then just insisting- this is what you're doing, no discussion. And the school has just acknowledged her love of dance and these biographies she reads, like- how cool how special is that! Your daughter is special! This thing mom has dismissed and put down all her life. I guess it was pretty painful that mom didn't acknowledge any of that :(((
Ok, your thoughts on ending of 5.4 please? And then 6.1/college boyfriend. Whenever, not to rush you… :)Also, you know what comes to mind every so often- I wonder if she’s gonna circle back to it anymore- the story of the kids on the bridge, one dies and one survives. Although I feel like its role in the story is making more sense as we get further along…
I’m at the end of 5.4 and I have absolutely no idea what she means, what Tracey is thinking or meaning. Zip. Zilch. Nada. What did you think was going on? Is it about Mr Booth? Didn’t they tell us he was gay way back when the girls were super young , to inartfully reassure readers there wasn’t anything creepy happening? The story of the kids on the bridge haunts me and yet it’s clear we don’t know what happened or how it fit into the narrative. I dread learning but agree it’s likely that Smith will circle back to it.
I crashed earlier last night and didn’t make it through 5. Can’t wait to get back to it 💕Also I haven't had a lot to say about all the many events and relationships in West Africa, but think it’s what makes this novel really memorable and special. Fern. Hawa. The pink house. The “grand opening” event. The breast-feeding, striking young woman who speaks facts. Aimee’s intentional disinterest in getting to know anything about the recipients of her largesse. How our narrator responds to everything.
I just got to part 7 this morning. Glad I didn't read last chapter in part 6 before bed last night- unsettling ending there, FYI...So just on Mr Booth- I don't recall learning so much about him outright but I remember wondering if he's gay when we get that poignant scene with him. 2.7- I just revisited. He and narrator talk about Astaire and his story- not as good technically as his sister, not actually American but German or Austrian, maybe Jewish, was actually famous for a while in London before becoming Hollywood star. And there's the line "Listening to Mr. Booth, I wondered if it were possible for me, too, to become a person who revealed themselves later in life..." And it's where he talks about getting the meaning and feeling of a song. They sing/play All of Me- about unrequited love of course- and he gets teary... sigh...
So, end of 5.4- yea... my only guess is that the imagined question What are you going to do? is about her future? and perhaps for a girl who has been a follower, a shadow of a person, that is a scary or at least dumbfounding question. And maybe it's relevant that this question ties to a moment where she was singing?
So, I'm mostly reading my paperback but I also have an ebook from the library- nice for searching key words and finding past passages. I searched to see if this question was elsewhere. Jazz bar with Aimee, the dramatic singing. Leads to Aimee questioning her: is she happy, does she know what she wants in life, "[you're not going to be doing this forever, that's obvious] So the question becomes: what are you going to do, after this? ... with your life?
This BTW lead to the quote I shared earlier What could she know about the waves of time that simply come at a person, one after the other? What could she know about life as the temporary, always partial, survival of that process?
And the Gypsy song you guessed it might be in the jazz bar scene- I checked it out the other day- WOW. I watched a Patti Lupone bootleg type footage on youtube. So this is Lupone. First, wow. THAT is quite a song. She is losing it at the end! And wow! Patti Lupone! I've always heard the name, the gays gushing over her. Hadn't seen/heard anything before though. I feel like the light has switched on in the dark. Wow. She is amazing. This book and you are getting me to understand the beauty of musicals- never saw that coming!
Omg Carol. This book is a goddam trip! And I haven't even read anymore today beyond one chapter (I'm up to part 7) but I was revisiting old chapters- the singing ones I mentioned above- more thoroughly. Oh man. Actually the perfect time to revisit piano bar night (3.2-3.3) with new eyes. I'm thinking this is big time unreliable narrator situation.So piano bar scene- I think the song is Some People based on narrator's description compared to lyrics. She says of the song "the dead stay home, while people like Mama, oh they're different, they won't just sit and take it, they've got the dreams and the guts, they won't stay and rot, they'll always fight to get up- and out!"
Anybody that stays home is dead
If I die it won't be from sitting
It'll be from fighting to get up and get out
Some people can get a thrill
Knitting sweaters and sitting still
That's okay for some people
Who don't know they're alive
...
But I at least gotta try
When I think of all the sights that I gotta see
And all the places I gotta play
All the things that I gotta be at
Come on papa, what do you say?
Some people can be content
Playing bingo and paying rent
That's peachy for some people
For some hum-drum people to be
But some people ain't me
...
I had a dream, just as real as can be papa
There I was in Mr. Orpheum's office
And he was saying to me
Rose, get yourselves some new orchestrations
New routines and red velvet curtains
...
Get an agent and in jig time
You'll be being booked in the big time
Oh, what a dream, a wonderful dream papa
And all that I need is eighty-eight bucks papa
That's what he said papa, only eighty-eight bucks
You ain't gettin' eighty-eight cents from me Rose
Then I'll get it someplace else but I'll get it
And get my kids out
...
Some people sit on their butts
Got the dream, yeah but not the guts
That's living for some people
For some hum-drum people I suppose
Well, they can stay and rot but not Rose
Carol wrote: "The story of the kids on the bridge haunts me and yet it’s clear we don’t know what happened or how it fit into the narrative. I dread learning but agree it’s likely that Smith will circle back to it..."I'm speculating the two friends on the bridge may symbolize narrator and Tracey. Or more generally, two paths through life, one leading to surviving, one to death.
I think it's interesting how, when it was being discussed with mom and Miriam (3.4), mom was expressing sympathy to the perpetrators, and she does something similar when narrator tells her about seeing Tracey's father with the other woman and children.
From the prologue: I've never understood how the survivor managed it, in the darkness, in the absolute cold, with the terrible shock and his shoes on.
Carol wrote: "I crashed earlier last night and didn’t make it through 5. Can’t wait to get back to it 💕Also I haven't had a lot to say about all the many events and relationships in West Africa, but think it’s..."
Yes! The Africa chapters are great! So vivid. Fern, Hawa, that woman speaking the facts. I loved the humbling chat narrator had with Hawa's economist brother and I love Granger in this world.
On a kinda personal level, I loved seeing this new world through narrator because much felt so parallel with my experiences on the few trips I've made to Vietnam, my mother's homeland. I really appreciated seeing this kind of experience captured and so well.
@Jen - I delivered a presentation this morning that took up a lot of real estate in my brain over the weekend. I'm up to the beginning of Chapter 7 but have thoughts I'll share later today when I can settle down all of the needy folk in my immediate environment. Thanks for your patience.in the meantime, while of neglegible significance to the plot, I was in my high school Guys and Dolls production, albeit I was the accompanist. Take Back Your Mink is a showstopper. Smith mentions it but doesn't give the reader enough to understand its significance. This clip is 4 minutes long (plus 2 commercials), and well worth viewing. I haven't seen the movie before and had no idea Brando was in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgLz2...
So it's a burlesque and the character singing the solo is distinctly 100% lower class and tramp-y. Tracey getting cast in this role is something. Acting is acting, but I take from it that she's getting cast "to type". What casting directors see in her is her background, racial, economic, and her well-developed physical assets, and she's exactly who they see as their Adelaide.
Carol wrote: "@Jen - I delivered a presentation this morning that took up a lot of real estate in my brain over the weekend. I'm up to the beginning of Chapter 7 but have thoughts I'll share later today when I c..."Hey, no rush! I finished yesterday but I'm just enjoying marinating with it now. And I watched a reading+talk last night that took place at NYC's 92Y.
Some key general points and fun fact she made-
-it's about the legitimacy of one's concerns
-it's about the role of music and dance in black life- a motivating purpose she had for writing this one
-it's about the difficulty of "mulattoism" - I put this in quotes because she used this word, but as an American I'm used to it being offensive, but I've just read that it is not so elsewhere. Also I feel "half this half that" is too reductionist, but mixed race too general.
-she was deliberately creating a narrator that is not such a clearly defined character- this thing you picked up on early on! She says more about that decision.
-She says the mother is closer to herself than her own mother but she points out it's a thing with writing- to play on your problematic traits and sort of center them (so I guess it's to say- she's not THAT much like the mom haha).
I hope I've summarized her words accurately based on memory... She was funny- but of course- and touching- seemed emotional just fleetingly in some moments-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuQIZ...
Thanks for the Guys and Dolls info. First, wow cool! You have a personal background with this topic! How perfect that I read this with you! And yea, now I will watch all the things now... :D
I couldn’t finish tonight, so I stopped at page 400. She’s just shown up on Tracey’s doorstep. Cliffhanger!I can’t quite understand why she’s so cold to Fern when, and after, he discloses how he feels about her. It just doesn’t seem how anyone with the slightest capacity for a friend would respond. We’ve all been there. But her reaction borders on frustration/disdain. There’s a later scene in NYC when she says something akin to , I wasn’t raised like this. And I have no idea what she means.
I love the description of how the school evolves under Fern’s administration to meet the needs of the community and ensure its support.
Carol wrote: "I couldn’t finish tonight, so I stopped at page 400. She’s just shown up on Tracey’s doorstep. Cliffhanger!I can’t quite understand why she’s so cold to Fern when, and after, he discloses how he ..."
Yeaaa. The reaction to Fern. I mean first of all, what a bummer! I fantasize of Swing Time the romance novel with a happily ever after haha, but I guess that's not what this is... I dunno either. What can we say? She's young and really doesn't seem to have experience with this. We have not seen people in her life be openhearted and vulnerable with her. And at this point in the story she is really distracted by resentment and suspicions. I dunno. I wish I could understand better too.
I'm not remembering that moment in NYC with a line like that- not raised like this. What was the context?
Jen wrote: "Carol wrote: "I couldn’t finish tonight, so I stopped at page 400. She’s just shown up on Tracey’s doorstep. Cliffhanger!I can’t quite understand why she’s so cold to Fern when, and after, he dis..."
I'll find it. Along the same lines, I wish Smith had done more to explain why our narrator cared about Lamin and Aimee in NY. She's ... what... jealous (every time Smith gets close to confirming this, she pulls it back)? Confused (what is the specific nature of this relationship and why do I care?) Lonely (never articulated but possible)? Concerned for Lamin (how will he fare when Aimee gets bored)? I would like to know the answer, but I'd also like to have seen the narrator working through some or any of this to give me a clue to how she is thinking about her world and her life. She doesn't want kids. Does she want Lamin, or even men, generally? Does she want to live in the village, or NYC or North London? What does she like? We don't even know what food she likes, or books she reads, or whether she's a morning person or exercises or likes to nap or stay up late. It's been ages and ages since we read about her music preferences. She has a horrid time on the date with the guy with whom she sees Show Boat, but that's one of the few times we see her exhibit a strong emotion about anything. And a lot of it is about his whiteness.
just re-read and all of this sounds complain-y but I don't feel that way about this book. I love it and don't want it to end.
Carol wrote: "Jen wrote: "Carol wrote: "I couldn’t finish tonight, so I stopped at page 400. She’s just shown up on Tracey’s doorstep. Cliffhanger!I can’t quite understand why she’s so cold to Fern when, and a..."
Haha I dunno, I don't wonder about things like her food or exercise or ... yea... stuff like that. Although there was a funny line! - "... those were my salad days of impossible heels." So, a bit of indication- she's sort of that girl or has her phases, which is, for me, minimal info but says plenty and is relatable... And we know she takes walks around the compound- not a fitness buff, not negligent either, maybe bare minimum kinda girl in that area of life...
But in general, your ponderings remind me of your early post wondering who she is. We were on the same page in seeing something like an emptiness or drifting unaware. I think it's a book where we don't see alot of growth. I'm ok with that as that could easily be a trite happily ever after. I think the lost, confused, out of tune with self and how to be with others persists to the end. We are an outsider seeing her and like Fern says, she is hard to know. But also, I don't feel totally lost on who she is. I think her actions and reactions to things, her occasional reflections- like realizing how Fern is with others is so different from anyone she's ever known- and the world in which she was raised tell me alot.
So I am wondering if, after the truth is revealed regarding the Tracey-Dad thing, did you revisit the chapter where she first talks about it with Aimee?? The night of the piano bar and drive and Aimee talking to her about her life and her take on that incident and what she should do? I guess I'm curious how you see Aimee now that you're at the end too. Cuz my view of her changed. Not totally of course but yea. A hangup of mine had been Aimee coming across very one-dimensional but I was accepting it as her symbolizing the evils of the world, to put it very simply. But after the Tracey-Dad truth reveal and going back to that chapter, I was like wait a minute, she was being actually a real friend to narrator. She was like- ok if singing a song is making you have a minor breakdown, we need to talk and we are staying up despite being tired and wanting this night to end, and this is what friends do, like her and Judy- calling each other out on our shit.
And this ties to the ending in a way for me, and major themes in general, which I dunno if you got far enough so I won't get into that.
Jen wrote: "Carol wrote: "I couldn’t finish tonight, so I stopped at page 400. She’s just shown up on Tracey’s doorstep. Cliffhanger!I can’t quite understand why she’s so cold to Fern when, and after, he dis..."
That's on my homework list - I'll find it. I've read a hard copy, so need to invest in page turning. I haven't found and re-read the birthday night scene, either, and want/need to do that.
Jen wrote: "So I am wondering if, after the truth is revealed regarding the Tracey-Dad thing, did you revisit the chapter where she first talks about it with Aimee?? The night of the piano bar and drive and Ai..."I read a Wiki synopsis (of all things) and now feel like I must be the sole oblivious reader in the Smith universe. Here's the excerpt that got my attention.
Tracey steals the money from the concert and, when she is accused of doing so, she and her mother accuse the old piano player who accompanied the dancers as children of molesting Tracey. The narrator realizes that Tracey probably was sexually assaulted as a child by her own father.
Wait. what? Tracey's father or Narrator's father? I never did understand why Tracey and her mom went after Mr. Booth (I think that was his surname), but I also never picked up on anything with Tracey's dad other than his absence making her idealize him.
If it's Narrator's father, that would blow my mind even more, and that letter about observing Narrator's Dad with the blow up doll seemed really odd as a reaction. (I mean, sure, that's gross and I don't want to see any of my friends' or acquaintances' dads in any state of undress nor do I want to see a blow-up doll in use, but .. file that under, "that was gross" and move on. It's not some scarring event worthy of actual correspondence.
The ending I'm still processing. The whiplash of Narrator's conflicting attraction to kids, combined with her seemingly one-sided obsession with Tracey - who hasn't been a good friend to her ... ever? certainly not for some time... confuses me. She wants to adopt Tracey's kids? This seems as misguided and odd to me as deciding a random village in Gambia needs a school and laptops without asking the people who live there what they need most. In terms of a wrap-up for this book - which I found both compelling and powerful - there just didn't seem much energy to this ending. I wasn't looking for neat. I was looking for, this makes sense as a culmination of the story Smith's told, and I don't think i got that. Need to keep processing.
Aimee - I can't say my view of her changed. She reminds me of a very charismatic (she wouldn't describe herself that way, btw), interesting friend I had in my mid-30s. When she was with you by yourself and talking to you, you felt like you were really close and the most important person - to her - in the universe. Each person in that setting felt super-highly valued and understood. And she meant it - and you were - for the duration of that in-person moment. The next day? Get in line. You are one of many, the barriers are high, she's always too busy to get together and there's no follow-up. Overall, Smith did a fabulous job of creating this composite character, a little bit Madonna, a little of I'm certain one or two British artists, who expertly manage their own view of themselves and the extent to which anyone gets in their way or makes demands. And to whom almost everyone around them is disposable.
I am still thinking about whether Narrator's behavior with Lamin is self-destructive (I want to get fired) or what. And while I like some of what this Electric Lit review has to say about, "this difficult relationship with choice and who has them [sic] is especially fascinating as time in the novel is treated as a privilege," I admit to ending the book confused about the choices available to Narrator, now in her 30s, and why she seemed to behave and respond like a trust fund kid rather than someone who is self-supporting on an income I doubt is particularly generous. When she's fired and finds her belongings packaged on the street, she doesn't display any anxiety about either where to live (and put all of her stuff) or bills coming in or where she'll work next. I've known folks who respond to layoffs like this - with a certain attitude of, well, I'll take some time and decide what to do next - where in all but one instance, I've had to get a job, any job, as swiftly as possible because I don't have savings to indulge in relaxed contemplation. Even if you do have savings, when you grow up poor or paycheck-to-paycheck that no-paycheck anxiety is second nature. Not to our Narrator, though.
https://electricliterature.com/time-s...
Tracey. Tracey anchors the book, but I just never got her or became interested in her. She was mean to the Narrator - prickly - as often as anything else. How and why does she go from being in the Showboat chorus to having 4 kids in a decade? Are we supposed to think of her in.. what the 1990s? as being frozen out of all of the good roles, a la LeGon? Does she have them all in a few years after he (horrid) mother dies? Did her mother know about the abuse? Does she blame her mom for not protecting her? I don't know anything about Tracey other than what our Narrator observes and our Narrator seems to see what she wants to see (no shade intended).
Hawa. I'd like to read a book about her. I found Hawa and Fern to be really, really interesting characters and where Smith's skills shine brightest.
Back to work, for the moment.
Carol wrote: "Jen wrote: "So I am wondering if, after the truth is revealed regarding the Tracey-Dad thing, did you revisit the chapter where she first talks about it with Aimee?? The night of the piano bar and ..."Hello again... :)
I'm surprised by the wiki synopsis you found. I did not for sure read abuse from Tracey's father, and definitely not narrator's. There was of course narrator's mom's memorable moment on the intoxication/hospitalization night when she said 'something happened to that girl'. But I didn't draw definite conclusions as to what might have happened (besides the horrific torment they experienced in grade school by all the boys chasing and assaulting them- ugh!). And actually, I'd sooner guess it was not something committed by Tracey's father cuz I think her character is meant to be wiser about people than that- I mean she wouldn't adore and yearn for a father who would do that.
About Mr Booth, I took narrator's perspective as pretty right on- they felt cornered and it was a survival instinct- "they reacted predictably, with wildfire". They didn't wanna be the ones in trouble, threw whoever they could under the bus to save themselves, and this was a sad result. I think it's a scenario that illustrates the desperation and poverty (not just financial but all levels) of their lives.
The ending from my POV- the narrator was not seriously wanting to adopt her children, no. I thought she had recognized it as a fleeting fantasy thought, but she was realizing she cared for them and wanted to be a part of their life, to offer what she can. I think the narrator is having an awakening- she is beginning to see more clearly how hard life has been for Tracey; she's seeing in all her troubling behavior cries for help; she's seeing what she's needed her whole life- what has been missing- is good and right support. I thought it was a positive and lovely ending and perhaps reflects the influence that people like Fern and Hawa had on her- she learned what love and support should look like, how to be there for others who need it. The sad scene of her mother's convoluted last monologue actually gave some peace as she ultimately expresses sympathy for Tracey and her situation, and a desire to help them, to keep the children in the family (though she was mixing up whose children they were because dementia), to stop fighting her and start supporting her finally. And narrator, sensing this peace, this admission from her mother- it's like closure so she doesn't feel she needs to return to the hospice, but continues on to see Tracey again, to begin anew with her. I love it! It fills my heart!
Lamin- yea. I guess that was totally self-destructive. We learn through her actions she is kind of a mess. I guess it was painful for her to watch that relationship because of the power imbalance- the woman who gets whatever she wants to such an extreme degree is easy to resent. There's a poignant line somewhere in the book asking, where is the agreement in a situation of such imbalance in power. Like, how much freedom of choice does a person have when presented with "an offer" if their situation is so hopeless, scary, desperate? That was about the baby she adopted but I can imagine the same concern extended to the situation with Lamin, and it is I suppose further complicated because of race. There is, I imagine, a complicated pain in seeing a continuation of black impoverished people being taken advantage of by white people. These are reasons I project narrator had issues with Aimee going after Lamin.
On being fired, I thought she was shown as crying and hopeless on the doorstep with all her stuff?? I don't remember exactly, but I thought I remember tears... And working as PA #1 for pseudo-Madonna, I assume she had a great income. Plus, she simply is lucky- she has access to that apartment of her mom's ex for the time being. We see she is a bit in dire straits, eating like a poor person I thought, doesn't have a real phone, but it's not like the story extended very long after the firing.
Re: Tracey- some of the kids were before Showboat- narrator saw her mom pick her up with a couple babies in backseat, right? Then she guessed her bio in the pamphlet was possibly meager because of motherhood getting in the way of work. Tracey expressed appreciation that her mom got to know the kids before she died...
Yea... I think the characters are great. I feel like I understand them and personally I see beauty in their troubled souls. I'm happy there was some uplift to the ending. But maybe like Annie Ernaux said time is her main character in The Years, poverty is the main character in Swing Time.
oh I noticed now that you gave it 5 stars! I did not have the impression you were feeling 5 stars about it. But then again, lots of my fave and 5-star reads are books that leave me with wonder and questions too.
Jen wrote: "oh I noticed now that you gave it 5 stars! I did not have the impression you were feeling 5 stars about it. But then again, lots of my fave and 5-star reads are books that leave me with wonder and ..."Sorry for my work-related delay. Definitely 5 stars for me. I'm unconcerned about what I still think is a weak ending, because on the whole I loved so much about Swing Time, but I like your perspective on it and am interested in moving more toward your interpretation because I don't see Smith being satisfied with mine. : )
I'm so glad you didn't respond to the sex abuse explanation as, oh, sure. We just don't get that much insight into Tracey - since we see her only in glimpses and then through our narrator's eyes. I don't know that anything "happened" per se in her childhood, other than poverty, her mom's values and choices, her absent dad, and a talent that might have lifted her into a different economic strata, depending on lots of external factors, but was always destined to leave her vulnerable to aging, racism and the cruelties of the entertainment business.
With Mr. Booth, do we think they stole the money and created a diversion? That was just a horrid outcome to me, and spoke of Tracey and her mom ultimately always acting in self-interest. But to ensure he basically never works again? I get cold-hearted viewing someone capable of that kind of life-changing cruelty.
I agree that I think Tracey had 2 kids before Showboat (I'm putting aside the difficulty in getting a 2-kid body back in shape for professional stage dancing - for anyone who lacks J-Lo's resources). But I don't understand giving her 4 in her early 30s in a world with birth control and where dance was all she ever considered and she was quite proud (deservedly) of her talent and expertise. It just didn't quite fit to me and seemed a bit piling-on-y.
The other plot line we haven't chatted about - and which puzzles me a bit, practically speaking - is Tracey's volume of email messages to Narrator's mom. Firstly, mom could have created a rule to put them all in a folder, e.g., there's no reason to experience an in-box of 16 message a day from any one constituent, no less someone having judgment issues. But, secondly, as a basis for her mom demanding Narrator go ask Tracey to stop, that was weak. Anyone willing to send dozens of messages to any single recipient over the course of week upon week isn't interested in stopping, doesn't care about the impact on the recipient. And the mom asking Narrator to solve what in essence is a work-problem seemed off to me. I put it in the category, of, "okay, Smith, I'm going to just accept this as you've written it, ..." but, in truth, I didn't buy any of it except as a plot device.
Resurrecting an early topic, how much of Narrator's Mom is Zadie? When I listening to the audio, there were a handful of zingers that sounded exactly like Smith in interviews, so I began to hear her voice even when I was reading the book book. I suspect there's a lot of Narrator's Mom's values and approaches to life that align with Smith, and I loved those things about her. She was - to me - a truly fascinating character, including even breaking up with her partner (but not really or maybe really but became true friends).
Swing Time has joined my lifetime favorites list, because of its ambition, the movie musical tie-ins, the dialogue, Fern, Hawa and Narrator's Mom, and Smith's successful management of all of its moving parts from start to finish - always compelling, never dull or ponderous.
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In this ten-minute 2016 video from a book reading Smith did, she reads aloud from the beginning, the Prologue. I adore her voice and the way she interprets her writing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZhVd...
I didn't realize that, thematically, Swing Time continues our dance theme from our Swans of Harlem read. It is described in the summary of this vid as, "a story of two girls who dream of being dancers, spanning over twenty years and two continents. It’s also a tale about friendship and music and stubborn roots, about how we are shaped by these things and how we can survive them."