Read Women discussion

Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race by Reni Eddo-Lodge

This is the October non-fiction read which I will be leading. Hope you take time to join in. Even if you don't have time to read the entire book......your thoughts and comments are encouraged. It's a great choice for October's Black History Month as well.

I hope others will be joining in this discussion. Wondering who might be giving it a try.

Am about 1/2 finished and looking forward to reading what others think. There are 7 chapters so feel free to just try a chapter if that's all your time allows or interest you have. As Carol mentioned in her comments about September's goings on,.....there has been lots.

Whether you like or don't like something it doesn't matter. And best to get your questions or issues out early....rather than waiting until the end. That way we can share our thoughts and learn from each other.

Hope to hear from you soon and what you learned.

I have a couple books I plan to read for the last two weeks of Hispanic Heritage Month and then I plan to check this one out. Very looking forward to it. I thought of it too for nomination so I was happy to see it won the vote :)

When you say just try a chapter, does that mean they don't need to be read in any special order? Essays?

Hi Jen, so glad you're interested in this month's book and that you’ll be joining in.

I'll be responding to your question in another post. Thanks for the question and sorry for any confusion. Mj

Recently, in a post to members, I suggested they try reading one chapter - any chapter. My purpose was to encourage members to try reading some of the book even if they had time constraints or were not initially interested (believing each of us could learn something, have some questions and have dialogue to share.)

I suggested this approach primarily because Chapter 1 is the longest chapter in the book. I was worried that this might negatively impact participation…hence my suggestion – pick a chapter of your choice.

Jen sent me an excellent question asking whether this book was about essays and whether it should be read in any particular order.

Fyi, the book isn’t marketed at a collection of essays and my preference is always to read books in the order the author has published. However, based on what I’ve read, while all chapters are inter-connected and could be stand-alone chapters. There’s information in each chapter that might impact another…..but if you only read 1 or 2 chapters in a different order….you will sill learn something and understand more about systemic racism.

Again I hope many members join in and give at least 1 chapter a try.

Book Breakout by Section and Number of Pages

Preface 9 pg
1. Histories 56 pg
2. The System 28 pf
3. What is White Privilege? 32 pg
4. Fear of a Black Planet 25 pg
5. The Feminism Question 45 pg
6. Race and Class 23 pg
7. There's No Justice, There's Just Us 12 pg
Notes by Chapter 13 pg
Alphabetical Bibliography 2 pg
Acknowledgments 1 pg
Index 5 pg
A Note on the Author 1 pg
A Note on the Type 1 pg

I’ve got a 4hour drive home Sunday and plan to start this on audio!

Thanks for the book breakout. That’s nice since I’ll be doing library ebook but I don’t have it yet so I don’t have any preview like that.

I finally started this- only read the preface so far but loved it. Her writing is great- very clear, simple, and straightforward. She lays out her intentions and where she's coming from very well and she ended with a bit of humor and hope, so I'm eager to continue but also want to sit with what I've read. I highlighted so much. She talks about writing and reading to feel less alone and in ways that is how she made me feel, that is I think a big part of why I'm excited to keep reading.

Jen, so pleased you were able to start reading Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race and join in the discussion.

I just returned from a long weekend with family and no internet hence my delayed response. In Canada we celebrate Thanksgiving on the 2nd Monday of October. Being a big fan of US NFL football, we get to celebrate Thanksgiving again on the 4th Thursday of November. Lots of fun and we’re big turkey fans!! :)

Thanks for sharing your comments and insight. I’m sure it will encourage others to join in. I agree with you, that for a non-fiction book the reading flows well - especially since it is so jam-packed full of research and real-life examples. (As you mentioned....highlighters will have a problem finding words they don't want to highlighting.) Also as you mentioned, the author's sharing of feelings and personal experiences are very evocative and really invite readers to engage.

Hope you continue to read, learn and enjoy!!

I finished Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race about a week ago and have hesitated to post because of the apparent lack of interest in the book and being the only person besides Jen to post.

I highly recommend reading the book. Even if you only read a chapter you will likely learn something you don’t currently know. It’s very well written, flows well and is easy to read despite the large number of real life happenings and statistics, the author’s sharing of great insights and various quotes from Britain and elsewhere.

The book should be readily accessible for free in libraries and I’m hoping people might read even 1 chapter. I’m suggesting that you do not necessarily start with chapter 1, only because it is the longest chapter and the pace and comprehensive information took me time and concentration to get into. I learned not to refer to the references in the bibliography as it only slowed me down. After finishing the intro and Chapter 1 had the opposite reaction and had a hard time putting the book down.

I was reviewing some suggested book club questions and came across An Important Question “How did the title make you feel? Am wondering if this has had an impact on lack of participation as a number of people did vote for this book. If there is trepidation, I just want to assure participants that discussion will be about what you learned, your favourite comments or examples and will not become a right/wrong debate. For sure, these are the rules for how I will lead. No person participating is expected to share anything personal, unless they choose to do so. I am hoping to lead a discussion that will be a discussion of the contents of the book itself and the author’s comments.

I'm still "listening" to it - about 50% done. I exerted the perfect example of "white privilege" when I started to listen to it on the drive back from the Philadelphia airport to Pittsburgh and changed it because I didn't want to ruin my good mood. Struck me immediately that I had not only the ability but the desire to do that and not have it affect anything but maybe my conscience.

I'm still in Chapter 3 - just after (view spoiler)[ two men are finally sentenced for the Stephen Laurence murder. The author was discussing the wasted opportunity to engage in discussions across the county in explaining better what white privilege is only to have it blown out of the sky because of a tweet and the subsequent brouhaha over it. I just found several articles and a Youtube video discussing a BBC program broadcast in 2018, "Stephen: The Murder that Changed a Nation". The question I have to ask is "did it really?" And I cannot begin to imagine what it was and is still like for his parents and siblings to have to fight for justice for him for over 25 years. (hide spoiler)] None of this had I had known about until reading this book. I've put my thoughts in a spoiler so that it doesn't affect anyone else unless they choose to open it.

This is an extremely tricky topic to have with anyone in person, let alone try to do so in comments. It personally took me a long time to get a grasp (or what I thought was my grasp) on the meaning, starting with the first book I read in 2018, So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo. (my comments from that one: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...). And I've learned over the last week how weak my grasp still is. More later as I complete more reading.

I just finished the chapter on feminism last night, so I'm getting towards the end of the book- 3 more chapters to go. Distractions have kept me from getting through this quicker...

It's been very cool to read this right after Swing Time by Zadie Smith. As an American, it's been eye-opening to learn about the unique issues of racism in the UK. From what I gather from this book and some youtubes I watched with Zadie Smith, in England there is more reluctance to 1) talk about race and admit it is an issue, and 2) see even UK-born POC as British. And of course that's not to say we don't have those issues in the US, but it sounds like these facets of racism are maybe more pronounced in UK.

Gail- yes omg, the Stephen Lawrence case... so heartbreaking thinking of the toll taken on the family...

I finished this one this morning and gave it 5 stars. I was debating between 4 and 5 for a moment. I think I did myself a disservice in stretching it out with pauses in reading but I'm glad I read it and I'm really glad it's out there, it's so well-written, and it seems like a rare gem as far as books addressing racism in Europe. I found the chapter Race and Class the most difficult to follow.

I finished this on my way home today on a 3 1/2 hr drive. I also gave it a 5. I struggled a bit with the first three chapters for a number of reasons, but when I got to chapters 4 and 5 I was very glad I had not given up. There I received the kind of explanations I needed to put the pieces together in my mind and make me understand much more. As much as I liked the audio for its authenticity, I was sorry I didn't have a print copy to highlight the passages I wanted to save!

One that was definitely an eye-opener for me, because of my own experience in a field and industry that was definitely male dominated was this one: “Feminism is not about equality, and certainly not about silently slipping into a world of work created by and for men. Feminism, at its best, is a movement that works to liberate all people who have been economically, socially and culturally marginalized by an ideological system that has been deigned for them to fail.”

Gail W wrote: "I finished this on my way home today on a 3 1/2 hr drive. I also gave it a 5. I struggled a bit with the first three chapters for a number of reasons, but when I got to chapters 4 and 5 I was very ..."

Yes, great line! I appreciated her points about equality as short term goal, but long term, it's about changing the system. I hope that's an accurate takeaway/summary. I'm not remembering offhand which chapter was which, but I personally loved the first chapter on history. As I've mentioned, I appreciated the UK focus...

Jen wrote: "... I appreciated the UK focus..."

I did too once I got into it. I watch a lot of BBC, Acorn, etc to stay away from US political commercials (and have done so since 2015). When I watch all these shows with interracial couples, I thought the UK was better than the US in promoting equality. How naive was THAT!?!

I particularly appreciated the segment on feminism: white women vs non-white. In my career, I truly believed I was fighting not only for myself, but for ALL women. Rarely did I put any other qualifiers on to the fight. It was a slap in the face and then an "Oh! Aha!" moment when listening to this. (And reminding me of several missteps I had made along the way in my mentoring...)

Gail W wrote: "Jen wrote: "... I appreciated the UK focus..."

I did too once I got into it. I watch a lot of BBC, Acorn, etc to stay away from US political commercials (and have done so since 2015). When I watch..."

ohhh clever stategy for avoiding those commercials- nice