SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
SciFi and Fantasy Book Challenge
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Alessandro's Directory (comments ahoy!)
SFFBC 2025 Science Fiction & Fantasy Booklovers Combat:Science Fiction Challenges
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Full Character Archetypes List
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Let's use this post for some useful links: SFFBC Current Events.
SFFBC Virtual Book Club.
SFFBC 2024 Bookshelf Rereads.
SFFBC 2025 Bookshelf Rereads.
WBtM Current and Upcoming Reads.
Apocalypse Whenever Group Announcements.
Newest Literary Fiction Current and Upcoming Reads.
More threads that might be useful:
Afrofuturism and Afrojujuism;
Community SFF Geek Out Idea;
Sword and Sorcery.
Currently reading at...
Literary Fiction by People of Color;
Horror Aficionados 2025;
Newest Literary Ficion;
Apocalypse Whenever;
Historical Fictionistas;
Literary Darkness;
SFFBC 2025;
Black Coffee.
Indeed! Thanks. I'm very satisfied with my 2024. It was unusually focused on speculative fiction, including titles that were right at the top of my waiting list: the Broken Earth trilogy, the Hainish cycle, now the Imperial Radch. I had a sort of reverential fear towards them, but I'm happy to have plunged head first.
One thing I'll try to improve in the next year(s) is reading more in Spanish.
I've got to finish up The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia, which I struggled with. It feels so much like the Cold War era that I got a bit bored.
Well it was a Cold War novel. It's also very layered, as it elaborates on many of Le Guin's long-standing concerns. The depth of those novels is amazing, and The Dispossessed in particular seems the capstone to that entire period of her output.
I could happily start re-reading the Hainish novels tomorrow.
I’m disappointed that I didn’t manage to fit in any UKL rereads this year, when they were all up for discussion. That’s one of the reasons I have decided to limit my participation in Group Reads to books I already own. I might not manage, but I really need to make a dent in the collection of unread books. And I hope this affords me time for rereads, as I’ll be mood reading for the most part.
I explicitly focused on the writers that I wanted to explore: Ursula K. Le Guin, Samuel R. Delany, N.K. Jemisin, G. Willow Wilson... As a result, I tend to swing much more often with the reread schedule than the fantasy or sci-fi books of the month. There's simply so much great material that the group has already gone through without me.
For reference, I decided to join for This Is How You Lose the Time War since it is short (and I'd been complaining about selections being too long!) and also our Virtual Book Club for that month, but it was nowhere near the authors just mentioned in terms of quality and personal satisfaction.
For what is worth, I'm also in favour of re-reading books. Often I have the urge to read a book twice in a row, to better appreciate the finer details.
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "As a result, I tend to swing much more often with the reread schedule than the fantasy or sci-fi books of the month."I am also in this group. There is so much on the shelf that I want to read already that I don't often get to the BOTM unless it's high on my TBR. I often want to continue/complete a series that we've started but haven't continued on with.
Well yeah, that's the thing: you join for the titles you want to read, and in my/our case those are most often group rereads. I can imagine that more seasoned members, who have put those under their belts, might be curious about more exotic fare. Series are a different topic: I've read no less than three this year, because I knew how well regarded they are. Generally I prefer stand-alone novels, but in the future, whenever I'm afraid of a tome, I will be able to remember that I've already gone through His Dark Materials or the Imperial Radch.
I am also much more interested in books that have stood the test of time, than the brand new works that tend to get read in one of my other groups. SFFBC is not so bad with the latest thing always winning, thankfully. If it had already crossed my radar often enough, I might be tempted to buy it, but I almost never read them contemporaneously with the group.
It's also true that the Broken Earth and Imperial Radch trilogies are both less than a decade old, and both were acclaimed from very early on. Will they "stand the test of time"? Very probably. But not quite yet, I don't think.
It's interesting that there are a few of us that read from the shelf rather than the BOTM. I have a few series that are on my list for 2025 that will consume quite a bit of my time: Remembrance of Earth's Past: The Three-Body Trilogy, Terra Ignota, Murderbot, the Teixcalaan dualogy, Children of Time trilogy, Sun Eater, and Stormlight Archive. (It's possible I should make my own thread instead of putting all of my reading plans on Ale's ☺️)
Cheryl L wrote: "It's interesting that there are a few of us that read from the shelf rather than the BOTM. I have a few series that are on my list for 2025 that will consume quite a bit of my time: [book:Remembran..."Maybe it could be a good idea, because Murderbot, the Teixcalaan dualogy, Sun Eater, and Stormlight Archive are on my radar for 2025 as well.
But I have nothing against BotM. It's not a default choice, at least for me. It's just that not every month can you find something that matches Le Guin or even Leckie. It happens, though: I read The Spear Cuts Through Water when it was our BotM and haven't stopped talking about it ever since.
Not to mention the truism that being Book of the Month is the only way to enter the group shelf.
I read a handful of series in 2024, and I'm not sure it will happen again in 2025.
William Gibson is possibly the only one that's calling me at the moment. And Octavia E. Butler, whenever I'll feel ready for her novels.
I'm also curious about the Teixcalaan diptych for the Meso-American connection, but pretty sure I wouldn't be able to keep up the pace considering the other books I've already planned.
You're obviously very welcome to hang out in this neighbourhood. Shall I bring tea?
(I'm still in the Radch, as you can see).
Something herbal please. I also have nothing against the BOTM, per se, it just happens that I am usually voting for an underdog and rarely for the one that will win. That doesn’t mean that those that win are not good books and won’t eventually stand the test of time. Which, by the way, for relatively young books, I think both the Raadch and the Jemisin will do. And of course, putting the lie to what I’ve said, I have already read both, and the Teixcaalan (sp?) duology. I am nothing if not inconsistent.
Yeah, nominations and voting can be frustrating at times. Great books are nominated but not seconded and we end up in what feels to me like a disappointing middle ground.
As far as reading choices go, the only thing that matters eventually is whether you're satisfied. And I'm extremely happy with the quality, if not the quantity, of my 2024. But quantity has been average: a little above 50 books and 10K pages.
DivaDiane wrote: "Something herbal please. I also have nothing against the BOTM, per se, it just happens that I am usually voting for an underdog and rarely for the one that will win. That doesn’t mean that those ..."
as I'm usually waiting for a book to come down in price, I seldom read the BOTMs that are brand new and tend to nominate something from my TBR pile or something I've enjoyed (Vlad Taltos series for one and a Charles de Lint book for another) in the hopes that someone else might like it
Same for me, for the most part. But I'm aware of the power of hype, especially in the field of speculative fiction. I mean aren't those covers gorgeous?
The things that I vote for in BOTM rarely win either, but I have read some of the books this year that I certainly enjoyed.
More often than not, it's actually down to how many books I manage to fit in any given month. Sometimes some of them simply fall off the sides. For instance, I'd really love to read Nuestra parte de noche which is the January fantasy BotM, but there's no way I could do it with the other stuff I've already planned.
Yes, that happens to me also. I would like to read Our Share of Night, but I also feel a pressing need to finish Remembrance of Earth's Past: The Three-Body Trilogy, which I am committed to finishing in the first half of the year and which takes extra brain power to understand.
I will use my own thread to talk about rating, and specifically what I call the four-star syndrome. Even before joining Goodreads, I used this system for rating: 1 star: waste of time, paper, ink, bytes.
2 stars: readable.
3 stars: good.
4 stars: excellent.
5 stars: masterwork.
Being mostly free to choose my reading and dealing by trade, for the most part, with masterworks, nearly all of my votes are in the upper levels. And there lies the four-star syndrome: whenever I like a book, it is likely to be rated a four, more or less automatically. I've recently (let's say since 2024) tried to be more varied: to give 3 stars when a book isn't entirely satisfying and 5 stars when I find it truly outstanding, even if perhaps not a masterwork that will endure the ages. Even so, I still give more four-star ratings than all of the others combined.
I should add, perhaps, that I try to be as impersonal as possible in my ratings, based on quality (which I believe is objective) more than personal preference.
I have the same 4-star syndrome problem. And for much the same reason. I am unlikely to read a brand new book on a whim before it has gotten plenty of other reviews. So being choosy about the books I read means they are more likely to satisfy. That said, I find that books I rated when I first joined GR (in 2008), more strictly adhere to the official 5 star metric. Nowadays I’m much more likely to give good books a 4-star rating and excellent and masterful books 5 stars. 3 stars seems now to indicate something wrong enough to note. I wish I could bring myself to give more realistic star ratings, but I don’t want to negatively affect a book’s ability to draw people to reading it.
I've been on different platforms that sometimes changed even their own rating systems, to say nothing of migrating cross platform: it would all have been a nightmare if I didn't have my own metric.Honestly I do want to affect the reception of a book: if one was even partly disappointing I wish to give fair warning to other readers as well as my future self. In this sense I've become more strict about handing out four stars.
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "Honestly I do want to affect the reception of a book: if one was even partly disappointing I wish to give fair warning to other readers as well as my future self....."I agree very much with this, although I truly understand Diane's viewpoint, too (although I think it's much more applicable to Amazon than GR).
I count on other readers to give subjective but fair reviews so I don't waste my time on something I won't enjoy or learn from. Granted, my own, short reviews are mostly for my own record, so, grain of salt. I don't count on everyone agreeing, of course, but I'm much more likely to read a two-star rating than any other because I want to be warned.
Also, I wish more reviewers would include content warnings (gory violence, steamy sex, etc.).
Interesting conversation!
I also have a similar 4 star rating issue for many of the same reasons. I’ve reached a point in life, too, where if I don’t like something, I stop reading, so I have very few books rated 1 or 2 stars. (I also don’t feel right rating a book I did not finish.) I tend to give something 5 stars if I really loved it, it was of outstanding quality (even if I did not love it - some Margaret Atwood books fall here for me), or I would recommend it freely to others. For me, 3 star books are usually ones that were okay or had some aspects that didn’t quite work.
I was referring strictly to the star ratings, when I said I don’t want to negatively affect, but it’s still a bit silly. I know people who won’t bother with anything that has a star rating average of less than 3.8. I don’t really believe I have that much power to raise or lower an average. But hey, that’s my reasoning. My reviews, on the other hand are always honest and fair. If there is something that didn’t sit well with me or rubbed me the wrong way, I will say so. My reviews are very personal though and brief. I don’t write book reports or do any synopsis at all. That’s what the blurbs are for.
So they won't read Mrs Dalloway because it has an average of 3.79? Averages on Goodreads must be taken with a shipload of sea salt. There's a lot of hype for new books and an underappreciation of what I will unabashedly call the classics. I try to be objective in my reviews as in my ratings, and I prefer to write longer, in-depth pieces, whenever I can. They are also for my personal record, mind you; I guess I'm just more demanding with myself!
But Diane, surely you've contributed to I don't know how many platforms that also include reviews?
Thanks Melanie for fishing out that vintage discussion; I believe we've had something similar more recently, which might have been on Discord though.
I'm also in the field of "it takes me so long to decide what to read and my wishlist runs in the hundreds, so by the time I actually start something I'm fairly sure it's my cup of tea, in my favourite china" (tea references are just warming up for more Radchaai reading coming up ahead).
Thanks Jan and welcome.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, folks over at Horror Aficionados say they dislike content warnings and even consider them as potential spoilers.
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "So they won't read Mrs Dalloway because it has an average of 3.79? Averages on Goodreads must be taken with a shipload of sea salt. There's a lot of hype for new books and an underap..."in that particular case, a lot of casual readers would have problems with that book because it's stream of consciousness. I enjoyed it, but then I also enjoyed Ulysses.
I do have one book rated 5.0 that I've read:
Neighborhood Birding 101: An Identification Guide to Washington, Oregon & Northern California's Most Common Neighborhood Birds
and
Neighborhood Birding 101 - An Identification Guide to Washington, Oregon, & Northern California’s Most Common Neighborhood Birds
they're the same book and note the author's name
The two books should be merged. I can do it, if you like.edit: they are already merged, apparently.
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "The two books should be merged. I can do it, if you like.edit: they are already merged, apparently."
excellent - maybe we have another goodreads editor here?
I believe we are called librarians. (on the previous point: the act of giving three stars to Mrs Dalloway says more about the reader than the novel).
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "I believe we are called librarians. (on the previous point: the act of giving three stars to Mrs Dalloway says more about the reader than the novel)."
thanks - my brain has been in a fog lately and I couldn't remember the term to use.
and I was, rather obliquely, also saying it's a problem with the readers.
Oh, you weren't oblique; I was just being obnoxious. I'm the kind of lazy librarian who doesn't actively go looking for problems to solve, but is happy to fix anything that's pointed out.
CBRetriever wrote: "a.g.e. montagner wrote: "I believe we are called librarians. (on the previous point: the act of giving three stars to Mrs Dalloway says more about the reader than the novel)."
... also saying it's a problem with the readers"
I would be one of those problem readers and will not be reading Mrs. Dalloway. My brain is unable to parse stream-of-consciousness writing. If it were a sound, it would be static or white noise.
As a graduate student of foreign literature I realise that my approach to literary fiction is probably different from most other readers'. Luckily I can say that my experience teaching Woolf (and Modernism in general) has been overwhelmingly positive.
Cheryl, I would recommend Orlando, which also happen to have fantastical elements. The movie with Tilda Swinton is good, and I spent New Year's Eve a couple of years ago at the theatre production with Emma Corrin:
https://www.michaelgrandagecompany.co...
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "As a graduate student of foreign literature I realise that my approach to literary fiction is probably different from most other readers'. Luckily I can say that my experience teaching Woolf (and..."
the one about the dog is good too: Flush:
This story of Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s cocker spaniel, Flush, enchants right from the opening pages. Although Flush has adventures of his own with bullying dogs, horrid maids, and robbers, he also provides the reader with a glimpse into Browning’s life.
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "Luckily I can say that my experience teaching Woolf (and Modernism in general) has been overwhelmingly positive."Ale, if I had you as my tutor, I could probably get through Mrs Dalloway and both not hate it and maybe even understand it.
Strangely, I had a similar problem with the last section of Absolution, which leaned heavily on stream-of-consciousness narration. The Southern Reach is notoriously difficult to understand as it is, but I was completely lost in the last section and ended up giving the book only 2 ⭐. In contrast, Annihilation was one of my 5 ⭐ reads from last year.
I've added the two recommended Woolf's to my TBR.
Cheryl L wrote: "Ale, if I had you as my tutor, I could probably get through Mrs Dalloway and both not hate it and maybe even understand it."I'd join this class in a heartbeat :)
Haha, thanks girls! I'd be curious to try teaching to adults.
A colleague giving night classes says it has a different set of challenges.
The Southern Reach famously crashes after the first book, but... stream of consciousness right at the end? It sounds so shoe-horned it might actually be fun.
(curiously I was thinking about the movie a few days ago; specifically about the scene that uses CSN's "Helplessly Hoping").
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "Haha, thanks girls! I'd be curious to try teaching to adults.
A colleague giving night classes says it has a different set of challenges. "
What ages do you teach?
High school (14-19). I could also teach in middle school (11-14), but I'd really rather not.
a.g.e. montagner wrote: "High school (14-19). I could also teach in middle school (11-14), but I'd really rather not."
Very few people want to be around people going through puberty, including their parents!
... and the youngsters themselves! I remember being bored and impatient with myself at that age.
Mod
Also... 2025, SFFBC seminars? we read a book(s)/short stories / whatever our guest professor selects for a reasonable 1-2 month project and then get together and learn? EH??? EHHH??!?!?!
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Raven and the Reindeer (other topics)A Night in the Lonesome October (other topics)
Fahrenheit 451 (other topics)
The Ballad of the Sad Café and Other Stories (other topics)
I Am Not Sidney Poitier (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Ray Bradbury (other topics)T. Kingfisher (other topics)
Roger Zelazny (other topics)
Carson McCullers (other topics)
Harry Crews (other topics)
More...
2024 Challenges:
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2024 Read All The Books 11: Prime Reading Time (here);
2024 Year of the Dragon Series Project (here and here);
2024 Zodiac Challenge (here);
By the end of the year I've completed 2 challenges out of 3, or rather 1½ since I've collected all eggs but not all habitats from the year of the Dragon Project.
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Leftovers from 2024:
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Alphabet of Thorn by Patricia A. McKillip (first and final thoughts);
The Book of Night Women by Marlon James (discussion);
En el lejero by Evelio Rosero (discussion);
Ours by Phillip B. Williams (discussion);
Piranesi by Susanna Clarke (first and final thoughts);
Trouble on Triton by Samuel R. Delany (discussions here, here and here).
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2025 Challenges:
2025 Mount TBR Challenge (here);
2025 Read All the Books 12: Books by the Dozen (here);
2025 Science Fiction & Fantasy Booklovers Combat (below, thread, archetype list);
2025 Calendar:
January:
Ghostsby Edith Wharton (discussion not on Goodreads);Translation Stateby Ann Leckie (buddy read);February:
If He Hollers Let Him Goby Chester Himes (discussion);March:
Il paesaggio cosmicoby Leonard Susskind;The Bloody Chamber and Other Storiesby Angela Carter (buddy read);Neuromancerby William Gibson (first and final thoughts);April:
Romeo and Julietby William Shakespeare;The Deepby Solomon Rivers (discussions here and here);LannyandShyby Max Porter, for an interview with the author;May:June:
Entangled Lifeby Merlin Sheldrake (non-fiction buddy read);Poor Thingsby Alasdair Gray (discussion not on Goodreads);July:
Una linea nel mondo: un anno sul Mare del Nordby Dorthe Nors;Maledetti uominiby Andrev Walden;Bestiario artico by Frank Westerman;
August:
Solarisby Stanisław Lem (first and final thoughts);Fat Cityby Leonard Gardner (discussion);The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson (first and final thoughts);
September:
Harlem Shuffle and Crook Manifesto by Colson Whitehead (discussions here and here);
I Am Not Sidney Poitier by Percival Everett (first and final thoughts);
The Knockout Artist by Harry Crews (first and last thoughts);
The Ballad of the Sad Café and Other Stories by Carson McCullers (first and final thoughts);
October:
The Raven Tower by Ann Leckie (first and final thoughts);
A Night in the Lonesome October by Roger Zelazny (first and final thoughts; daily read 2019, 2020 and 2021);
November:
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury;
December:
The Raven and the Reindeer by T. Kingfisher;
Next:
The Last Unicorn: Deluxe Edition by Peter S. Beagle (first and final thoughts);
The Garden Against Time by Olivia Laing (discussion not on Goodreads);
Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive by William Gibson (buddy read);
The Once and Future King by T.H. White (first and last thoughts);
The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson (discussion);
Tutte le cosmicomiche by Italo Calvino (buddy read);
Niebla al mediodía by Tomás González (buddy read);
The History of Sound by Ben Shattuck (discussion);
Provenance by Ann Leckie (buddy read).
Leftovers from 2025:
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If Beale Street Could Talk by James Baldwin (discussion);
Melvill by Rodrigo Fresán (buddy read);
Non dico addio by Han Kang (buddy read);
The Reformatory by Tananarive Due (discussion);
Zodiac by Neal Stephenson (first and final thoughts).
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