Victorians! discussion

Welcome to our group read of Martin Chuzzlewit by Charles Dickens!

Brief summary:

Chapters 1-5 are introductory chapters. In chapter 1, Chuzzlewit pedigree is established in the typical Dickensian style.
Chapter 2 introduces the Pecksniff family. Mr. Pecksniff is a self-styled architect and land surveyor. He's got two daughters.
In Chapter 3 we meet Martin Chuzzlewit the senior and learn his relationship to Mr. Pecksniff.
Chapter 4 continues introducing the rest of the Chuzzlewit family.
In Chapter 5, we get a little more insight into Pecksniff family. We meet Mr. Tom Pinch, assistant to Mr. Pecksniff and Young Martin Chuzzlewit who is to begin his apprenticeship with Mr. Pecksniff.

How is the beginning? What thoughts have you on our characters?

I thoroughly enjoyed the first five chapters. I’ve read Dickens before and found it rather polarised - the writing is usually switched between humour and misery. As far as this novel is concerned, I found it lighthearted and I enjoyed all the characters.

Chapter 1 suggests that the family are related to Guy Fawkes or direct descendants from the Normans. Nice touch that.

Chapter 2 I liked old Pecksniff, but I suspect that he’s not really that kind to Pinch and he’s just using him as cheap labour. Was John Westlock right about his character?

Chapter 3 Old Chuzzlewit seems to be agonising over making a will, hence the document he wrote and then burnt.

Chapter 4 I thought the author did a splendid job in describing the in-fighting of the family and at the end, when Spottletoe said “he’s gone” - I thought the old man was dead; Dickens certainly had me fooled there.

I like the character of Mark Tapley, I assume he will return later in the novel.

Chapter 5 “ art is long and time is short” — an excellent quotation, I wondered if Dickens invented it himself or stole it from elsewhere.

Looking forward to next weeks read.

I'm glad that you've enjoyed the introductory chapters, Neil. I found it a bit heavy going. I normally enjoy Dickens's writing. But I thought it was a little too verbose here. (I know he was paid by words, but when transferred to book form, a bit of editing would've done wonders IMHO).

I have been enjoying Martin Chuzzlewit so far, especially the descriptions of the characters. Pecksniff is such a swindler pretending to be a model of rectitude. “In this particular he was like the girl in the fairy tale, except they were not actual diamonds that fell from his lips, they were the very brightest paste, and shone prodigiously.” Also, “It would be no description of Mr. Pecksniff’s gentleness of manner, to adopt the common parlance, and say, that he looked at this moment as if butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. He rather looked as if any quantity of butter might have been made out of him, by churning the milk of human kindness, as it spouted upwards from his heart.” That paragraph painted quite the picture in my mind! I did just read Pecksniffian used as an adjective in a different book, but now I can’t remember what book it was. It might’ve been Angela Thirkell…

The gathering of Chuzzlewit relations at the Pecksniff abode was horrifying with all the relatives figuratively pecking and scratching at each other. What a rogues’ gallery! Tom Pinch is such a nice contrast and I loved Tom going to Salisbury to collect the new student. He is so pleased with everything, although he would likely be quite cold with his not-so-great coat on a frosty morning. It is telling that Tom Pinch gets cheated in his purchase of a knife in Salisbury. I feel very protective of poor Tom Pinch…. I liked Pinch’s interactions with Mark and I enjoyed Mark’s search for a hardship that would make an ebullient spirit a credit for him to possess.

Jen wrote: "I have been enjoying Martin Chuzzlewit so far, especially the descriptions of the characters. Pecksniff is such a swindler pretending to be a model of rectitude. “In this particular he was like the..."

I was thinking as I read that Dickens was probably very aware that a good character trope was not to be wasted and could be recycled, redeveloped and re-written in later novels. For example, as John Westlock parted company with Pecksniff accusing him of grossly overcharging tuition "premium" for education of dubious worth, I was put into mind of Wackford Squeers of NICHOLAS NICKLEBY fame! Anyone else?

In fact, for me it went a good deal further than Pecksniff reminding me of Wackford Squeers. As Dickens described the rather whiny Miss Pecksniffs grilling their father (with an obvious eye to increasing the heft of their purses) over what the premium for their new student would be, I couldn't help thinking of Fanny Squeers. AND, Pinch definitely seemed reminiscent of poor young Smike.

And looking forward in the other direction to the undeniably great BLEAK HOUSE, which wouldn't make its appearance for another nine years, he seemed to get good mileage out of the "talkative con man leech with a propensity to borrow money with no intention of ever paying it back" personality. When you read about Chevy Slyme and his full-of-blarney never-shut-up front man Tigg, did anyone else flash back to a recollection of Harold Skimpole?

And while MARTIN CHUZZLEWIT has yet to mention Chancery Court or a murder (maybe it will or maybe it won't, we just don't know yet), there sure are a lot of similarities to the multiple contested wills idea that was front and center in BLEAK HOUSE!

Jen, I too felt protective towards Tom Pinch. He seems the nicest out of the lot.

Paul, I loved the comparisons you've made.

I'm so happy to be reading Dickens again! I loved the extended personification of the wind in Chapter 2--I'm always in awe of Dickens' power to mesmerize us with something as mundane as setting description. I wasn't sorry that the wind knocked Pecksniff down!

I was very amused by the tongue-in-cheek descriptions of the daughters, especially the emphasis on the "girlishness, and playfulness, and wildness, and kittenish buoyance" of the younger sister. The sentence revealing that sometimes "she even wore a pinafore; and how charming that was!" (22-23) lets you know that it was definitely NOT!

I do love Tom Pinch but regret his misplaced loyalty to Mr. Pecksniff, who already seems to be undeserving of it. I'm curious to find out more about the unconventional relationship between Martin Chuzzlewit and his young caretaker, Mary. Just the fact that she calls him Martin seems odd to me, given the conventions of the time. His relations certainly seem to be a bunch of vultures, as is often the case when a childless wealthy person is nearing the end of their life.

I very much appreciated--as I'm sure we all did--the description of the bookstore in Chapter 5. Who doesn't love "a pleasant smell of paper freshly pressed" along with a "whiff of Russia leather, too, and all those rows on rows of volumes, neatly ranged within--what happiness did they suggest!" (78). He follows this with an homage to those well-loved tales of our childhood, like Robinson Crusoe and the Arabian Nights. A wonderful bookish interlude to savor in the midst of our story!

Well I have finally traversed the first few chapters of Martin Chuzzlewit, which, in the past, has led me to lay the book aside to read, perhaps, another day. It needed this group to help haul me through the opening section, like the first daunting climb of an alpine peak. Chapter one was like scaling a sheer densely grained rock face without adequate footholds, in order to access a wonderful panorama.

Dickens’ overly indulgent style has never appealed to me but I have endured it in other novels because of the exquisite nature of his other proven qualities. I agree with Paul about Bleak House - a great novel.

What eventually emerged was a dysfunctional extended family, something that seems to be found everywhere today but seldom seen or was at least hidden in the Victorian era.

The family gathering at the Pecksniff’s could be many modern family’s remembrance of that ‘unfortunate’ Christmas when uncle so and so came.

Dickens made a meal of his comic descriptions and went to town with his ridiculous character names.

I too was somewhat mystified about the relationship between the elder Martin Chuzzlewit and his orphan companion Mary. Mary seems intelligent yet very reticent to talk to anybody except the old gentleman himself. And despite all the lascivious gossip in and around the Blue Dragon, her emotions seemed well in control as she went about her nurse like ‘duties’ administering medicine to the ‘dying?’ man.

Apparently, the ‘Blue Dragon’ was in fact based on the Green Dragon in Alderbury, an inn that is still open and serving food and ale today.



Here are a few links with more information about the Blue/Green Dragon.

https://wshc.org.uk/waht-s-inn-a-name/

https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/...

https://greendragon-alderbury.co.uk/

I'm glad you enjoyed the introductory chapters, Cindy. I wish I could say the same. I'm much in agreement with Trev. I felt so overwhelmed by Dickens's writing in this novel. And he is one of my favourite authors. I've never felt it a daunting task to read him. But for the first time, reading these 5 chapters felt like a chore.

Thanks, Trev, for sharing these valuable information with us. Greatly appreciated.

I am really enjoying it! It is dense reading, like Proust, but not so much regarding the descriptive prose but in the use of the language of that era and attempting to identify the true intended meaning. Definitely not something that you can speed-read. Once I took into consideration that 1) this was originally written by Charles Dickens as installments published in a local paper and 2) it was intended as satire, I was able to move through it more easily.

In Chapter 1, the last paragraph struck me where the Chuzzlewits family characteristics were compared (tongue-in-cheek) to the theories of both Johann Blumenbach and James Burnett/Lord Mondobbo. Shed a quite fine light on the family for the next chapters!

https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/...

https://www.britannica.com/biography/...

In Chapter 2, I enjoyed his use of personification in the descriptions of the leaves and the wind. I also noted how you begin to see Dickens flesh out Pecksmith's character "soft & oily". Vivid description, among the others he employed.

I also agree with the other comments here earlier (by Jen and Piyangie) about Tom Pinch. He is the purest one of the lot and I also find myself protecting him.

In Chapter 4, I noted some descriptions that really stuck out for me: "satanic moustache - {fierce & scornful style}", "every man of true genius has his peculiarity" on page 37, the description of Tigg as "proud as Lucifer", and finally "little frailties that beset a mighty mind".

I couldn't help visualizing it on stage (Dickens provides amazing scene settings). I dug in to that a bit and found that it was originally adapted for the stage and presented at the London Lyceaum Theater in 1843. More "recently", presented at the Bench Theater in Hampshire in 1990. Also, apparently a TV series in 1994.

https://www.benchtheatre.org.uk/plays...

https://theatricalia.com/place/56/lyc...

On to the next chapteers!

Trev wrote: "Well I have finally traversed the first few chapters of Martin Chuzzlewit, which, in the past, has led me to lay the book aside to read, perhaps, another day. It needed this group to help haul me t..."

Thanks for the information and image, Trev! It's cool when you can make a connection to a real place!

I had a hard time getting into this first section. The sentences seemed extra wordy and complex, even for Dickens, who I usually enjoy reading.

I did, however, enjoy the beautiful description of the wind in ch. 2, which reminded me of the description of the Maypole Inn in Barnaby Rudge. As if it were another character. I also took an immediate liking to Tom Pinch, who seems such a humble, kind person. I am not yet sure what to make of Martin Chuzzlewit the Younger.

I was surprised when, in ch. 3, his grandfather called him a "false hearted boy". I understood that he would be the hero of this story. It is possible that there has been some sort of misunderstanding in the past, the older Martin certainly seems somewhat paranoid (not without reason). The younger Martin did appear to be an easy-going, friendly young man, though I have a suspicion that he is not averse to getting the better deal, if given the chance. See him sheltering on the comfortable side of the carriage in ch. 5.

Still, so far he seems to be the best of the lot that Chuzzlewit has to call family. What an assortment of horrible people! I wonder if it is significant that the younger Martin did not come to that meeting. No wonder that Chuzzlewit senior to the first opportunity to escape, which I found hilarious.

Lindenblatt wrote: "I had a hard time getting into this first section. The sentences seemed extra wordy and complex, even for Dickens, who I usually enjoy reading..."

I'm of the same opinion, Lindenblatt. I just had a hard time navigating through the first 5 chapters. The best part for me in this section was where Old Chuzzlewit meet his family.

Thank you, Trev and Kim, for your illuminating links. The photos and articles are helpful and force me to slow down and think about details I might otherwise gloss over.

I was a bit depressed by the first five chapters. Dickens certainly seems to have been enjoying the creation of such an unpleasant, selfish, and/or two-faced menagerie, but I dread being stuck with them for the long haul.

Thank goodness for Tom Pinch, Mary Graham, and, hopefully, Young Martin Chuzzlewit. I’m hoping they do not disappoint.

Well peeps,

Charles Dickens’ narrative can be long-winded, we all know that, but to those who have responded I have to say that your comments, literal criticism and sundry information has made the book more enjoyable, thanks.

I agree with you Neil.

I think I might manage to get through this novel wuth the help of everyone’s contributions in this group.

Thanks to Kim for the mention of the BBC series from 1994. In my view the 1990s was the golden age for BBC period dramas and I must have missed that one. Having looked it up on IMDB I noticed that some of my favourite actors are in it, including (amazingly) John Mills. Also Paul Schofield, Julia Sawahla, Keith Allen and Downton Abbey writer Julian Fellowes. I will definitely be watching that series and now have another incentive to finish the book.

Trev wrote: "I agree with you Neil.

I think I might manage to get through this novel wuth the help of everyone’s contributions in this group.

Thanks to Kim for the mention of the BBC series from 1994. In my..."

For those in the US, I was delighted to find that the 1994 series is included with an Amazon Prime subscription.

Aha! It is on Amazon Prime, Renee. Thanks for pointing that out! I think I will join you and Trev is watching it as I continue through the readings.