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Which typos and quirks are unforgivable?
If it's a good story, I don't think anything like that would cause me to stop reading. If it's a really good story, I probably wouldn't even notice most of them. Although if the word you want is lose and you write loose instead, I'll probably notice that...unless it's a really, really good story. My two biggest pet peeves--besides typos or obvious mistakes (calling a character by the wrong name, etc)that someone should have caught--are the misuse of homonyms (e.g.using discrete when you mean discreet, or bear when you mean bare, etc)and mangled conjugation. Drug is not the past tense of drag. Sorry, it's just not!
Misspelled words and poor punctuation are two of my pet peeves! And I will always cringe when I see writers use words that don't exist ... for example, towards or backwards. Please don't put the "s" on the end!
I think that might be a regional thing. According to the American Heritage Dictionary: "The adverb may be spelled backward or backwards, and these forms are interchangeable: stepped backward; a mirror facing backwards. In Standard English, however, the adjective has no -s: a backward view."I like it when writers use words that don't exist--as long as it's intentional. ;) If they're doing it because they don't know any better, well that's another story.
Lucy wrote: "After three months of involving myself in the sport of Extreme Copyediting, I have to ask the question: Will it REALLY make a reader stop reading a book if they find a few quotation marks that are ..."There are different manual of styles. I was reviewing Chicago Manual of Style that states, 'mirror'. single quotes is inside of the punctuation. Where another style would show it as 'mirror.' and even in our English literature taught us to keep all quotes (single and double) in punctuations. So it is a rule of thumb, long as there is consistency. I try to control myself from using various styles based on my preference or what I like.
I prefer the Kate Turabian style as from the University of Chicago. I reviewed other ones for writing/editing.
I am have ignored some typos due to a medical condition from one of the books I had to review since I knew about her eyesight issues--however, sometimes I feel she still could have assigned an editor or publisher's editor on these books that has typos. We are human and even editors does not catch everything! Other times it is the book layout (typesetting) can cause these issues too.
P.G. wrote: "If it's a good story, I don't think anything like that would cause me to stop reading. If it's a really good story, I probably wouldn't even notice most of them. Although if the word you want is lo..."Yes, I have seen books use the word toll (where you pay your monies at the toll) when in a sentence it should be toil (hardships, burdens, etc.). I even seen an editor use the wrong term in context.
I agree with the other person, it can depend on Standard English, versus other translations or version of books: old English vs. current English terms. I have read text that has the older English terms, where we have updated the spelling of the word. I will have to read C.S. Lewis to find one of the terms I am speaking of when I read his books.
Good question. I find errors distracting when I read another's work, but miss some in my own, even when I read the text out loud. My mind reads the way it is supposed to be. I think that happens the majority of time when we're reading another's work, also. I worked for a man one time who couldn't stand parenthetical phrases, so I try to avoid them in my writing. I have a few pet peeves--it's when it should be its and misuse of homonyms, as mentioned. A goof or two won't pull the reader out of the story, but a bunch of them will.
A lot of us use explanation points when we respond to emails, or blogs, but in a book, I wouldn't want to see more than a few. I wouldn't have been able to finish that one either, Lucy.
LuAnn wrote: "Misspelled words and poor punctuation are two of my pet peeves! And I will always cringe when I see writers use words that don't exist ... for example, towards or backwards. Please don't put the "s..."Towards and backwards are real words.
I hope I don't offend anyone by what I am about to say, because I am not posting this to offend anyone.When I read a book, I am not looking for a grammar book. All writers and editors make writing errors. As a writer, I know that I make mistakes.
No writer can tell me that he or she follow every single grammar rule, when they are writing their book or story. Every book or story will fail the grammar test.
P.G. wrote: "I think that might be a regional thing. According to the American Heritage Dictionary: "The adverb may be spelled backward or backwards, and these forms are interchangeable: stepped backward; a mir..."I suppose I go more by my training in journalism, which sets specific guidelines for proper usage of words and phrases. For example, newspapers should avoid the word "nearly," sticking with almost or about. However, I do see nearly used in many papers more often these days than it was in the past.
The Associated Press Style Guide makes changes every year and it's often hard to keep up.
I go back and forth on this. Some errors are ok, but too many and it begins to irk me.My current pet peeve is too much pop culture jargon. I recently read a book that I really wanted to like. I didn't. I was irritated throughout with the constant references to BlackBerries, Starbucks, iPods, etc. Of course there are times it is relevant to the story to reference someone being on their phone or something, but there were few pages in the entire novel that did not specifically reference a device or place by trademarked name. I felt like I had read one long infomercial.
As a former newspaper editor, I must confess that I have certain pet peeves. "Over 100," for example, should read "more than 100." "Over" is a preposition, "more than" is a quantity. "Can" vs. "May" is another one.
Use of "irregardless" is certain to make me send a book sailing across the room.
Like P.G., I find homonym abuse annoying. I read one book where the protagonist had a "rye" smile (I could not decide if this was made from whiskey or bread). There were other problems with the book as well, but this one really stuck out.
P.G. wrote: "calling a character by the wrong name, etc"I don't recall having run across that one, but it would be bad, LOL.
I did read a book wherein a horse was grey on one page and bay on the next, though. Consistency, people.
/soapbox
I can and do overlook the occasional mistake. It happens. What's hard to overlook is when there are typos on every other page or format problems.I am a graphic designer and have done my share of desktop publishing and editing. It's not a hard job to edit a story. It simply takes time, patience, a good eye and knowledge of the language. Most of the problems I see are probably because they got in a hurry or committed the worst sin of all, proofread their own work.
You never, ever proof your own work, you are most likely to miss the mistake you already made.
I review books and post reviews online.
Most are Advance Reader Copies (ARCs), but some are books already printed and on the market. Those are the ones where a lot of typos becomes inexcusable. The editor of the book has failed to do their job and will end up costing both the publisher and the author a loss in sales.
We have to remember, when it comes to publishing, while the writer makes the mistake, the editor is the one who is paid to find and correct those mistakes BEFORE publishing. It's a large responsibility and one that some editors are unfortunately not ready to take on.
A book I recently received is a good example of this. The prologue has so many mistakes that it became a huge distraction.
The story is good, but there comes a point when the mistakes outweigh the story and it simply becomes tiresome to read.
It makes it hard to read the book, but it is also difficult not to remember that while the writer made the mistake, it wasn't his/her fault it ended up published.
So, to finally answer the question, it's not WHICH typos and quirks become unforgivable, it's the quantity and THAT is personal. some can skip right over without a problem, while some have a hard time getting past just one.
It becomes a problem for me when the amount of mistakes begins to rival the page count.
And, no, I haven't proofread this post. -grin-
One little quirk that bothers me is when someone uses the word "infer" when they really mean imply, as in, "Are you inferring that I stole it?" I recently saw this in a bestseller. I think it bothers me mostly because it reminds me of a past boss that I didn't like too much. He would often use "infer" as if it were a more formal form of imply. Bugged the Hell out of me. However, this is common enough that Webster's mentions that usage of "infer" as a loose one. The standard definitions of imply/infer seem like opposites to me.
I'm like the previous posters, if it's a really good books I overlook minor mistakes and just fix them in my head. If I keep finding mistake after mistake, my suspension is replaced by editing and I get pulled out of the story. :-( I do understand it's hard to catch every single tiny mistake even when having so many eyes look at it but I hope the book is mainly clean.As for quirks, I'd say POV switches and lack of characterization kinda bugs me.
Norm wrote: "One little quirk that bothers me is when someone uses the word "infer" when they really mean imply, as in, "Are you inferring that I stole it?" I recently saw this in a bestseller. I think it bothe..."Ooh, that's a good one.
My "boss who didn't know better" story is of a woman who didn't know that "duplicity" was not a fancy form of "duplication." As in, "Make sure you aren't all working on the same thing. We don't want any duplicity of effort."
I mentally referred to her as Mrs. Malaprop. :-/
As readers, we all need to know that everyone doesn't speak the same way. Just because something sounds wrong to a person, doesn't mean that it is. English people don't even talk like American people. There is so much to grammar that isn't taught in school, regardless if it's a public school, private or home school.
A lot of information has been omitted out of the grammar books. I have some older grammar books. Books that were written before I was born and I'm in my thirties. These books have some information in them that I can't even find in the later books.
I have been writing for 22 years and I will tell anyone, writing is not easy, but it's fun, at least to writers.
I find that editing mistakes are a fact of life, especially with the smaller presses. I try not to get uptight about it. I know I've written documents for work, called myself proofreading them, and found errors after the fact. Like Arch said, we all make mistakes. I have three college degrees (I don't say that to brag), and I still mispell words and make grammar mistakes. I recently took a course for work, and realized that my grammar was very poor. Everyone is human and nobody's perfect. I would never make a book a wall-banger because of a few editing mistakes. I imagine the author and the publisher wince about it more than anyone else.
Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I find that editing mistakes are a fact of life, especially with the smaller presses. I try not to get uptight about it. I know I've written documents for work, called myself proofreading them, a..."
I had four people proof my work, and two help with the editing. Yet, when my novel came out I found two typos in the final product and one typo in my memoir. It's the consistent disasters that get on my nerves. "Rye smile" makes me wince every time I think of it. How did this get by *anyone*?
Arch wrote: "As readers, we all need to know that everyone doesn't speak the same way. Just because something sounds wrong to a person, doesn't mean that it is. English people don't even talk like American peop..."Someone stole my favorite UK grammar book, which was written in the 1920s. I found it very helpful, and hope that the person has much joy of it (it was on my desk when I was a newspaper editor, right next to my AP Style Manual).
Are editors and proofreaders suppose to be grammar experts? Do they know which punctuation is suppose to be used and when? Do they know which word is suppose to be used, such as: To, Too and Two?I believe that a person can proofread their own work.
I hate exclamation points! Especially too many of them on one page! ;)Mrs. Malaprop is alive and well, (Bless her heart) I'm glad to say, not only in print, but on our local nightly news. They can't spell either, which we noticed one night when the reporter spoke before a sign which said, "PA Budit Battle Heats Up." We wait eagerly each night to see what they'll say--or print--next. I'll quote Mrs. M., and say "they are the very pineapple of perfection!"
I'm far from perfect, although I did get grammar and spelling beaten into me back in "the good old days." I do try to cut Indie pubs some slack, especially when I see what the big publishing houses let slip past.
The incorrect use of a word, however, is unforgivable. Heck, an author is supposed to be a "wordsmith."
Arch wrote: "Are editors and proofreaders suppose to be grammar experts? Do they know which punctuation is suppose to be used and when? Do they know which word is suppose to be used, such as: To, Too and Two?..."
You can proof your own work, to a degree. Unfortunately, far too many people nowadays depend on their spellcheck button. I have yet to find a computer that as a "f-up" check. :-/
An editor most definitely should be a grammar expert (I speak as a former newspaper editor).
Arch wrote: "Are editors and proofreaders suppose to be grammar experts? Do they know which punctuation is suppose to be used and when? Do they know which word is suppose to be used, such as: To, Too and Two?..."
I think that it does help to have another person proofread for you. Your brain skips over parts when you've read it several times (I think it memorizes what you have read), so that makes it easy to miss a mistake. I can only speak for myself, but I know I've missed errors even after proofreading heavily.
I don't believe that editors are experts in grammar and as for proofreading, I know that sometimes, I don't take the time out to really proofread my work, but I still believe that I can find my own errors, if I take the time to do so.Maybe it's just me, but I've noticed that a lot of people that complains about a writer's work, is someone that doesn't even write.
Arch wrote: "I don't believe that editors are experts in grammar and as for proofreading, I know that sometimes, I don't take the time out to really proofread my work, but I still believe that I can find my own..."I will tell you this: I would not work with an editor who was anything less than an expert grammarian. I work very hard to keep my work grammatically correct, but I know that I am human enough to miss something from time to time. That person should be able to spot the errors.
I am sure that the woman who wrote "rye smile" thought that she was absolutely correct, since her spellcheck accepted the word. An editor is that "f-up check" that I mentioned earlier. Yes, something will get past them from time to time, but they should definitely know the difference between they're/there/their, to/too/two and (for pete's sake) rye/wry.
Sharon wrote: "I will tell you this: I would not work with an editor who was anything less than an expert grammarian. I work very hard to keep my work grammatically correct, but I know that I am human enough to miss something from time to time. That person should be able to spot the errors.Sharon, do you know of any work - book,article, etc. that follows grammar to the tee? If so, please direct me to that book or article, so I can see if I can find any errors in it. If it's erotic work, then I will not read it.
I am sure that the woman who wrote "rye smile" thought that she was absolutely correct, since her spellcheck accepted the word. An editor is that "f-up check" that I mentioned earlier. Yes, something will get past them from time to time, but they should definitely know the difference between they're/there/their, to/too/two and (for pete's sake) rye/wry."
Just because a person makes a writing mistake, doesn't mean that they depend on their spellcheck to find errors. Spellcheck is not designed to find all errors.
The author that wrote "rye smile" made a mistake. We all make mistakes. I am sure, you have made many writing mistakes.
I hope I am not offending you, because I'm not trying to offend you.
I just can't stand when people act like a writer can't make a mistake. Editors make mistakes as well, after all, if they didn't, then no books with errors would be on bookshelves.
Arch wrote: "Are editors and proofreaders suppose to be grammar experts? Do they know which punctuation is suppose to be used and when? Do they know which word is suppose to be used, such as: To, Too and Two?..."
Yes, they are. Part of proofreading and editing is correcting grammar. There is even a book for it that has long recognized as the industry standard.
Strunk and White: The Elements of Style
A searchable version is located here-
http://www.bartleby.com/141/
As for proofing your own work, no will stop you of course, but it IS a proven fact that you are more apt to miss the very mistake you made. A lot of times because you don't recognize it as a mistake.
In a professional setting, you simply do not proof your own work and that is also a professional standard.
I'm the last to blow my own horn, but I do know a little about this as I have been working in the industry for over 25 years.
Arch wrote: "Just because a person makes a writing mistake, doesn't mean that they depend on their spellcheck to find errors. Spellcheck is not designed to find all errors."
No, it doesn't. It's not "f-up" check, as I said. "Rye smile" is the worst homonym error I have ever seen. It was a mistake, sure. The editor should have caught it.
Yes, mistakes get past editors. I have already said that after four proof-readers and two editors went over my novel MS, there were still two typos in it. It happens.
However, there are books out there that are so full of errors that it is ridiculous. That same book where the horse was bay on one page and grey on the next had two facing pages in which the French port was spelled La Harver, LeHarver, La Harbor and LeHarvre. None of those are correct: it's Le Havre. Again, where was the editor? This book was so painful that I had to stop reading. The kindest thing I could find to say about it, when asked, is that the author was very brave to publish it. :-(
You are welcome to proof your own work. I learned a long time ago that if I try to do that, my work says *exactly* what I think it does and I miss things.
I differentiate between an occasional typographical error and a writing mistake, Arch. I'm not offended at all. I make typos. That's what spell check is for. Grammatical/writing errors are the bailiwick of the editor to correct. I have BEEN an editor of two different newspapers (both now defunct). I am now an executive assistant, and part of my job is reviewing outgoing documents for grammar, style and usage. People in my position see lots of incoming correspondence that is *atrocious,* and we share. :-) A fellow editor was delighted to pass on a letter to the editor about a problem with the "ass fault" in front of the writer's house, for example. The error was corrected to "asphalt" before the letter was published, because part of the editor's job is to keep the writer from looking foolish in the public eye.
As for your assumption that I make writing errors? I may, from time to time, but I read grammar books for *fun.* I take pains to make sure that those errors area minimal, if they happen at all.
Sharon- Your comment about 'the "ass fault" in front of the writer's house' is great. It reminds me of what happened too often at the newspaper I worked at. We had a wall of shame for all the headlines that got past the editors and some were pretty amazing!Of course some are intentional. The horrible puns, some that have gotten people fired.
A few examples for your amusement.
Is There a Ring of Debris around Uranus?
Typhoon Rips Through Cemetery; Hundreds Dead
Patient At Death's Door--Doctors Pull Him Through
After Detour to California Shuttle Returns to Earth
Big Ugly Woman Wins Beauty Pageant (Newspaper in town of Big Ugly, WV)
Man Jumps Off Bridge. Neither Jumper nor Body Found
Study Finds Sex, Pregnancy Link (Cornell Daily Sun, December 7, 1995)
Arch wrote: "I hope I don't offend anyone by what I am about to say, because I am not posting this to offend anyone.When I read a book, I am not looking for a grammar book. All writers and editors make writ..."
I believe if we all as writer's followed every gramatical rule, our books would be boring, unless that is, it's non-fiction. In fiction, I know I want to read a tale where the dialogue is familiar or is the norm for the locale, and is something I can relate to. They say Stephen King is not a "literary icon" but I bet he laughs all the way to the bank, and I know I'd muh rather read his book than those considered literature. Just my opinion.
Brett wrote: "Arch wrote: "Are editors and proofreaders suppose to be grammar experts? Do they know which punctuation is suppose to be used and when? Do they know which word is suppose to be used, such as: To, T..."AMEN to this...as an editor myself as well as an author, I can read my own work and keep going over all my mistakes without recognizing them. Writers are too close to their own work to notice mistakes, that's why there's editors or even an unbiased friend, family member or critique group to pick up what the author cannot.
Arch wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I will tell you this: I would not work with an editor who was anything less than an expert grammarian. I work very hard to keep my work grammatically correct, but I know that I am hu..."You're so right...spellcheck does NOT find every error, but it IS a tool to keep your work clean and accurate...only ONE tool. I realize how difficult it is to break into the publishing field and unless you're well known, you need EVERY tool to make sure your work is precise and doesn't look sloppy.
Editors aren't grammar experts and I stand strong on my opinion, which, I never back down on my opinion for anyone. No one can prove to me that an editor knows everything about grammar. Grammar books can be fun to sit down and read. They are very educational.
Again, if I sit down and take the time to really read over my writing. I can find my mistakes.
Writers don't follow grammar rules.
It's easy for an editor or proofreader to look for typos, but come on, are they really looking for sentence structure or even punctuation?
Every book has fragment sentences. There's a rule about writing fragment sentences. If I am lying, then please someone correct me.
There's a rule about starting a sentence with the word "And" and if I am wrong, by all means correct me.
As I have stated before editors are not grammar experts.
A lot of grammar rules are overlooked in writing and if I am lying, then someone please correct me.
As for spell check, it can help a little, but spell check doesn't recognize every error. It doesn't recognize the difference between To, Too, Two. You can have typed the word "two", when you wanted to type, "too" and spell check will not red flag your error.
Writing is not easy.
Arch wrote: "LuAnn wrote: "Misspelled words and poor punctuation are two of my pet peeves! And I will always cringe when I see writers use words that don't exist ... for example, towards or backwards. Please do..."I've found that Word and American friends keep correcting my forwards, backwards and towards and leave off the "s." So this seems like a good place to ask, am I showing my English roots writing them that way? Is it different in American? And if so, how does "backwards, forwards and sideways" translate into American?
Sheila wrote: "I've found that Word and American friends keep correcting my forwards, backwards and towards and leave off the "s." So this seems like a good place to ask, am I showing my English roots writing them that way? Is it different in American? And if so, how does "backwards, forwards and sideways" translate into American?"Forwards, backwards and towards are words. They do exist. I don't know why Word would be telling you that it's wrong, unless the way you are using the words.
As for your American friends, they might be correcting you, because of the way you are using the words too or they don't know what they are talking about.
I would have to see how you are using the words in both cases. You can click on my name and click to send me a message. We can correspond through Goodreads email.
I think maybe Word corrected me when I really was wrong, but when friends corrected me I assumed I must always be wrong - looks like Word lets me use "...ward" and "...wards" pretty much interchangeably.
Lucy wrote: "After three months of involving myself in the sport of Extreme Copyediting, I have to ask the question: Will it REALLY make a reader stop reading a book if they find a few quotation marks that are ..."I just recently finished a book that was riddled with left out words, words used in the wrong context, and misplaced commas. It drove me crazy. While it was a good story I kept getting frustrated and thinking to myself that the writer really needed a professional editor. It makes you look bad as an author and it makes your publishing company look bad to have a poorly edited novel being released. While I think there are things you can get away with, like the overuse of comma or semicolons, there are certain things that just shouldn't be missed. If you are an independent author hire a really good editor. It will make you look much more professional.
I makes me annoyed when I spend my money on a book with so many errors in it.
Guess you hit a nerve with this discussion! :0)
Kelly
Arch wrote: "Editors aren't grammar experts and I stand strong on my opinion, which, I never back down on my opinion for anyone. No one can prove to me that an editor knows everything about grammar. Grammar..."
Arch, you're so right about editors not being grammar experts. And, different pubs go with different concepts. I've edited for pubs who only use CMS, old version, and others with the new version. To me, the most important thing in a book is the STORY, with the fact that the writer has made every effort to do a "clean" job of writing it by crossing every "T" and dotting every "i", if you know what I mean. If a pub gets a sloppy manuscript, even with a wonderful plot, they're going to reject it.
Kelly wrote: "Lucy wrote: "After three months of involving myself in the sport of Extreme Copyediting, I have to ask the question: Will it REALLY make a reader stop reading a book if they find a few quotation ma..."Kelly, you're so right about hitting a nerve with this discussion. I used to love a certain author many years ago, who has gotten famous and VERY SLOPPY! Almost every sentence now begins with "And" or "But" and sentences are paragraphs long, but still this author is a top seller. Go figure. I just doesn't seem right for those trying to get into the field who worry over every little thing, and I will no longer read this author's books because the writing is horrendous, no matter how good the plot.
I have to agree that there are some liberties taken with grammar in the name of literary artistic goals. I agree with the comment made that a book that is perfectly grammatically correct may not always be the most interesting for me to read.As an avid reader, I have found that many of my favorite writers have been criticized by others for their lack of writing ability. I do have favorite writers who write exquisitely, and without flaw. But for me as a reader, I want an engaging story that sucks me in and keeps my attention. If the writing doesn't follow the rules of style and grammar 100%, I'm not going to quibble on that. On the other hand, I agree the every effort should be taken to thoroughly read and correct a manuscript before it goes to print. Does that always happen? No. For me, it's not the end of the world. On the other hand, I can see some of the readers who hit the wallbanger moment when they read a book that is very poorly edited. So I can see both sides of this.
I read a lot of ebooks and small press books, and it does make me sigh to see how many editing mistakes are present. But considering their resources, I give them a lot more lattitude than a huge publishing company that should have the time and resources to make sure this doesn't go to print in that manner.
Sheila, I read a fair amount of books written by British authors, and I have seen some difference in the way words are used in Britain. I find it fascinating. I admit it's affected me, because I tend to want to add 'u' to borne. I did it on an exam for Immunology when I was in school. My professor wrote on the exam, "Are you British?" As an Anglophile, I had a good laugh at that because I really had trouble trying to figure out how to spell that word.
Nancy wrote: "Arch, you're so right about editors not being grammar experts. And, different pubs go with different concepts. I've edited for pubs who only use CMS, old version, and others with the new version. To me, the most important thing in a book is the STORY, with the fact that the writer has made every effort to do a "clean" job of writing it by crossing every "T" and dotting every "i", if you know what I mean. If a pub gets a sloppy manuscript, even with a wonderful plot, they're going to reject it."The story is the main thing that counts to me.
Sorry I'm not quoting particular comments, just adding a general two cents worth while taking a break from, well, proofreading for a client. *insert cheeky grin*While, for me, the story is the primary thing, I have and will notice mistakes. I have read a book by an author that was so riddled with mistakes that, in spite of my liking the characters and storylines, I never picked up any of the author's books again - the mistakes were too distracting and I really wasn't keen on taking the chance that it would happen again.
While editors and proofreaders won't catch every mistake (and I do count myself in this category), the odd mistake here and there in a 150+ page book is forgivable.
Intentional mistakes in dialogue, regional wording, etc. - bring it on, and I do read it in the form it was intended.
I have also worked as an editor for a monthly publication (now defunct). Let's just say there were days when Word wanted to go on strike due to use of redlining.
Sure I make mistakes and even manage to catch some of them when I set something I've written aside for a time. Most of the time, the story, etc., is foisted on a very understanding writing partner.
With regard to differences in spelling between UK/US (and even Australian) English, I've gotten used to those and automatically 'correct' the spelling and wording depending on who I am speaking with (have friends in Oz) or the type of document I am proofreading (client usually lets me know which version is preferred).
Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I have to agree that there are some liberties taken with grammar in the name of literary artistic goals. I agree with the comment made that a book that is perfectly grammatically correct may not a..."Danielle,
It is a relief as a writer to hear a reader say what you just said. I am okay with not following the grammatical rules so strictly because I think that can give a book substance and originality. As an avid reader myself I am not bothered by sentences beginning with And or But and as a writer it gives me the opportunity to emphasize sentences and points of dialogue.
What I don't like is a sloppily edited manuscript with ommitted words, words used in the wrong context, and inconsistencies. That is unprofessional in my opinion. I want my writing to be of high quality and as Lucy pointed out earlier it does matter to a lot of readers.
The conversation about using UK/US versions is very interesting. I guess I hadn't given that a lot of thought. Something to chew on. I think I'd need a British critique partner! ;0)
Arch wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Arch, you're so right about editors not being grammar experts. And, different pubs go with different concepts. I've edited for pubs who only use CMS, old version, and others with the ..."That's true...as well as it's well written, edited and not sloppy!
I feel that if a person has a problem with an author's work, then go to them privately and let them know about their errors or better yet, if you think that you can do a better job, then you write and get your book published. I would love to sink my feet into a professional editor, proofreader, etc. work to see just how much they know about writing.
One thing that I don't like and that is, when a "know it all person" approach me and tell me that I don't know how to write. I politely show them their writing errors.
I'll never forget, when an English teacher tried to make it seem as if I don't know how to write. When, I have finished showing her, her errors, she left me along.
I've only made A's and B's in English. That's one of my favorite subjects until this day. She has gotten a degree in college to teach. The English teacher came at me in public and I've shown her, her errors, in public.
A lot of people want to blame the author for mistakes in their books, when it's the editors and proofreaders that are suppose to make sure the book is clean.
No author, editor, proofreader or even reader are experts in grammar.
Please people, before you say that you are, look at what you've typed so far in this thread alone and please don't say that this thread doesn't count, because if a person is a grammar expert, then surely, he or she would be an expert everywhere they go. There wouldn't be any errors in any of their writing, period!
It would be like me saying, I'm a math expert (which match was one of my favorite subjects in school as well.) and everywhere I go, I boldly state that 2+2=4, but when I come on Goodreads, I boldly state that 2+2=10. Red Flag!
As for the person that stated that an author had a horse grey one time and bay the next. If you have the book, can you please share with me the sentence, where the author used the word bay.
As I have stated before, I have been writing for 22 years. Writing is my talent and yes, I have a lot to learn about writing, because there are so much information to learn. School doesn't teach you everything.
I strongly believe,just because a person has a talent, it doesn't mean that he or she can't be taught.
Every talent has a little rust.
I have read books with errors, but I've overlook the errors and continue reading the book.
A big error that some books have are the description of the hero and heroine. The inside hero and heroine doesn't match the outside hero and heroine.
Give writers a break!
I don't like seeing typos because I worked as a computer typesetter for ten years. You'd think that if you're producing copy for a Wall Street firm or a magazine or an ad agency, somebody over there would double check their stuff before giving it the final go-ahead. In my experience, that happened about half the time. A few places I typeset for employed a proof reader but most did not. Therefore, we typesetters wound up taking full responsibility for the mistakes even though everyone acknowledged if you're the one typing, it's much better to have someone else proofread.Because of economic constraints today, I see many more typos in books, even the $30 hard cover books by prominent authors. When I see more than 2 of these in one book I start to feel like I've overpaid for the book. I know they're not putting the care into the book that matches the price.
I just finished a mystery by Ann Perry and there was only one typo, but she used question marks so often I was in agony. On several occasions she used 12 question marks on a single page! This was distracting.
Arch challenged: "As for the person that stated that an author had a horse grey one time and bay the next. If you have the book, can you please share with me the sentence, where the author used the word bay. "Well, Arch, I gave the atrocity to the library to put in their jumble sale. However, it is
Darkness Brings The Dawn Erik's Story. A bay horse is not a grey horse. It was not a "grey horse being ridden by the bay." It was a grey horse on one page, and a bay horse the next. This link, http://www.amazon.com/Darkness-Brings... , very bravely offers you a chance to "look inside." Enjoy. You clearly think I have made up a story, and I *am* offended at that.
I can put up with a few single-occurrance typos, but one of my stylistic pet peeves is the overuse of exclamation points. I started reading a popular young adult book recently and couldn't finish it because of the too-frequent jolts of exclamation. What grammatical quirks or typos make other readers have to stop reading a book?