Beyond Jack Vance discussion

I am drawn to the hero/anti-hero displayed in Vance's works; Cugel being among the most famous. In the Demon Prince series, Gersen is another example. Other authors have made similar heroes. I am very fond of Nifft The Lean, for example. Fafhrd / Grey Mouser are others...the list goes on.

I would be very interested in hearing of other works featuring the type of protagonist outlined above. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Glawen Clattuc of Vance's Cadwal Chronicles has some similarities to Gersen. Glawen must do battle with evil foes who murdered his mother and his first love and who imprisoned his father. Reminiscent of Gersen's confinement at Interchange, Glawen spends an extended period of time as a prisoner. In the end, Glawen bests all foes and even gets the girl, Wayness Tamm. Wayness gets far more "screen time" than any of the female character in the Demon Prince series and is something of a hero in her own right.

Hi guys i like all Jac Vance heroes, they are different because they are competent hero that is not too flashy,uses his brain more than his brawn.

Gersen is my fav so far, he is much better than Glawen Clattuc because thats an innocent kid. Gersen is more obessive,hardcore.

Vance only has a few completely dark main characters to compare with Cugel, with Grayven Warlock in "To Live Forever" coming to mind.

Gersen is accused by one of his girlfriends as being a "monomaniac", and this is probably a correct identification, as he's driven to meet his original goal no matter what else happens - and what enemies he has to kill.

Adam Reith is also a driven man, but much nicer than Gersen in many ways.

Luke Grogatch in "Dodkin's Job" is pretty dour and disenchanted, but not really an anti-hero.'

Outside of Vance, Severian in Gene Wolfe's "The Book of The New Sun" may be an anti-hero, although Wolfe doesn't follow most literary conventions.

Adam Reith has passed Gersen for me after i read Planet of Adventure series. He is more human version of Gersen.

Gersen is an excellent creation, and *The Face* remains one of my top ten best books of all time. I was disappointed with the end to the *Demon Princes* series, though - although Treesong was an excellent villain, he was disposed of with inappropriate ease, and five books' worth of story dismissed in almost a single paragraph of dénouement. Such a shame.

Dominic wrote: "Gersen is an excellent creation, and *The Face* remains one of my top ten best books of all time. I was disappointed with the end to the *Demon Princes* series, though - although Treesong was an e..."

What a coincidence i just finished Demon Princes last week. Face is my fav in the series, the weirdest human cultures,most challenging villan for Gersen. Top 3 Vance novels/stories make its an alltime top fav book of mine.

What didnt you like about the end of Demon Princes?

Five books were wound up in almost a single paragraph! "The affair is finished. I am done." For shame, Sir Jack of Vance. And this after the splendid end the villain came to. Who overturned the chair? Could it have been anyone other than the mysterious Immir? Although it has to be said that Howard Alan Treesong is very similar to Viole Falushe.

"For shame" <-- There is an opening for a sequel that explains how Alice became involved with Treesong and what happens to the Institute.

Dominic wrote: "Five books were wound up in almost a single paragraph! "The affair is finished. I am done." For shame, Sir Jack of Vance. And this after the splendid end the villain came to. Who overturned th..."

The ending was a masterpiece imo, all the things Gersen did to get the Demon Princes end with him thinking his enemies has deserted him. It was a bitter,futile ending showing he didnt even get the revenge himself on the worst Demon Prince.

That family got the revenge on Treesong, it was clear who got him.

I agree, 'The Face' is the best of the quintet, and the only one of the series that I re-read. The problem for me with the last one is how there are failed attempts at killing Treesong, which, logically, you know aren't going to succeed. I felt Vance was - as a writer - running out of steam. The quintet though is full of wonderful images - the face on the moon, the finding of the planet via a part-opened book, Vogel and his horridness... brilliant stuff.

Stephen wrote: "I agree, 'The Face' is the best of the quintet, and the only one of the series that I re-read. The problem for me with the last one is how there are failed attempts at killing Treesong, which, logi..."

Yeah the wonderful images is something i take away from this series. The last book had it faults but it was strong ending. An anticlimax ending i thought was planned both for the reader and Gersen since its was the end of a long journey for the hero.

Dominic wrote: "Gersen is an excellent creation, and *The Face* remains one of my top ten best books of all time. I was disappointed with the end to the *Demon Princes* series, though - although Treesong was an e..."

Vance's work often ends with short thrift. In Durdane trilogy, the protagonist is born into a superstitious religious sect which espouses enslaving woman and their children to become the leader of a disorganized nation fighting alien invaders. He manages, with some difficulties, to rise the occasion. At the end of the book, he's essential left to nothing. People die and usually that's the end of it.

And who can forget Vance's picturesque expose of a forlorn Cugel at The Eyes of the Overworld?

Logical and definitive resolutions are a Vance hallmark.

For a Jack Vance heroic protagonist, I am also a fan of Jubal Droad from Maske Thaery (my first Jack Vance book--re-read countless times); Aillas from the Lyonesse trilogy; and Glyn Tarvoke from Emphyrio. Vance's style is unique enough that I can't think of comparables. I'd say my closest would be Rhett Butler from Gone with the Wind, a rogue indeed. Of course, GWTW is very different from the Vance books. For anyone who enjoyed Vance, the various protagonists in George RR Martin's Game of Thrones books should be interesting through IMO Martin's style is very different from Vance's.

Yes, Aillas is a particularly good character. That series though is full of great characters!

I thought Number Ten Ox from Bridge of Birds: A Novel of an Ancient China That Never Was showed a lot of wry cunning, and would fit into a Vance novel easily.

Come to think of it, Roger Zelazny wrote an awful lot of these characters. Corwin from Nine Princes in Amber comes to mind.

As just so happens, Roger Zelazny wrote one deliberate Vancian novel, "Jack of Shadows" wherein the very name is an bow to the master himself. I liked it okay.

To me the most striking thing about Vance's heroes is their individuality. While all share the one characteristic of exceptional competence, they could otherwise hardly be more different. Can one imagine Kirth Gersen being diverted from his goals long enough to rescue The Flower of Cath? And while many are quite easy to like (Glawen Clattuc, Aillas, Gastel Etzwane), others have serious rough edges. Both Roy Barch and Jubal Droad have gigantic chips on their shoulder, the one from an inferiority complex, the other from an excess of pride. And then there is Gavin Waylock, who is a sociopath.

This is all the more impressive, considering that Vance was writing at a time when characterization was very low on the priority scale for most SF writers. But then Vance was never most SF writers.