The History Book Club discussion

This is the thread which will contain ancillary material to assist with the reading of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbon.

Please feel free to add ancillary books, urls, reference material, articles, etc. to this thread which deal with Rome and the Roman Empire. We are beginning this thread in advance of our discussion of Volume I.

This book was voted upon by this group in mid 2008. We will finally be getting to this book in May of this year.

THIS IS ALSO A SPOILER THREAD. STICK TO THE NON SPOILER THREADS IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS AND/OR READ WHAT COMES AHEAD IN THE BOOK.



Edward Gibbon

Various Helpful Timelines:

Here is a helpful timeline of the Roman Empire:

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/roma...

Here is another:

http://library.thinkquest.org/22866/E...

Here is a timeline from the Metropolitan Art Museum:

The Roman Empire (27 B.C.–393 A.D.)

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/roem...

This is a wonderful site to visit for some information and other timelines:

http://www.roman-colosseum.info/roman...

This is some timeline information from about.com

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/ro...

Here is the Chronology of the Emperors:

The Chronology of the Roman Emperors until the Fall of Rome in AD 476

Note: Later emperors (for example Constantius) are placed on the chronology on becoming Augusti, not on their being appointed Caesares

http://www.roman-empire.net/diverse/c...

Here is the UNRV History Site and Timelines:

http://www.unrv.com/empire/early-roma...

Here is a Timeline from Wikipedia:

Timeline of Ancient Rome -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline...

Here is a write-up on the Roman Empire from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Em...

Another Timeline:

http://eawc.evansville.edu/chronology...

Timeline from Google:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Timeli...

The Illustrated History of the Roman Empire:

http://www.roman-empire.net/

Timeline: Ancient Rome

http://www.exovedate.com/ancient_time...

Comprehensive List of Sites:

http://www.teacheroz.com/romans.htm

Here is some of the PBS material which will of course historically precede our discussion:

http://www.pbs.org/empires/romans/ind...

The Celts and the Romans in Britain:

http://resourcesforhistory.com/

The Roman Numismatic Gallery:

http://romancoins.info/

Historical Atlas:

The Roman Empire:

http://tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/ro...

Detailed History of the Roman Empire:

http://roman-empire.info/

Complete Map of the Roman Empire in the Year 100:

http://www.euratlas.com/history_europ...

Rome Unleashed:

http://www.classicsunveiled.com/romeh...

BBC ROMANS FOR CHILDREN:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/primaryh...

Roman Battlefield Unearthed Deep inside Germany:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/...

Potentially Controversial:

http://cliojournal.wikispaces.com/How...

Roman Emperors Persecute Christians - National Geographic

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/los...

Bentley wrote: "Roman Battlefield Unearthed Deep inside Germany:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/..."

Great information Bentley, this has been always been a fascinating story for those interested in this famous incident of the 'lost legions'. Of course I'd like to recommend a good book for those interested in reading further on this matter:

by Tony Clunn
Publishers blurb:

In 9 A.D., the 17th, 18th, and 19th Roman legions and their auxiliary troops under the command of Publius Quinctilius Varus vanished in the boggy wilds of Germania. They died singly and by the hundreds over several days in a carefully planned ambush led by Arminius-a Roman-trained German warrior adopted and subsequently knighted by the Romans, but determined to stop Rome's advance east beyond the Rhine River. By the time it was over, some 25,000 men, women, and children were dead and the course of European history had been forever altered. "Quinctilius Varus, give me back my legions!" Emperor Augustus agonized aloud when he learned of the devastating loss.

As the decades slipped past, the location of the Varus defeat, one of the Western world's most important battlefields, was lost to history. It remained so for two millenia.

Fueled by an unshakeable curiosity and burning interest in the story, a British Major named J. A. S. (Tony) Clunn delved into the nooks and crannies of times past. By sheer persistence and good luck, he turned the foundation of German national history on its ear. Convinced the running battle took place north of Osnabruck, Germany, Clunn set out to prove his point. His discovery of large numbers of Roman coins in the late 1980s, followed by a flood of thousands of other artifacts (including weapons and human remains), ended the mystery once and for all. Archaeologists and historians across the world agreed. Today, a multi-million dollar state-of-the-art museum houses and interprets these priceless historical treasures on the very site Varus's legions were lost.

The Quest for the Lost Roman Legions, now available in trade paperback, is a masterful retelling of Clunn's search to discover the Varus battlefield. His well-paced, carefully conceived, and vivid writing style makes for a compelling read from the first page to the last, as he alternates between his incredible modern quest, and the ancient tale of the Roman occupation of Germany (based upon actual finds from the battlefield) that ultimately ended so tragically in the peat bogs of Kalkriese.

Thank you very much for adding Clunn's book. I am just attempting at this point to set up some supplemental threads for the discussion of Gibbon's book in advance which might aid in the discussion itself and deepen everybody's exposure. The Roman Empire is a very broad period in history and a lot happened before the decline and fall.

Hopefully, some of these threads can be developed in advance of the discussion and even after the discussion serve as reference threads on the Roman Empire.

Tony Clunn

Edward Gibbon

Sorry, I jumped the gun again didn't I!

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Sorry, I jumped the gun again didn't I!"

No, not at all..these are supplemental threads to be developed in advance of, during the discussion of the book itself, and afterwards. You did not jump the gun; you did exactly what I hoped would occur.

Varus! Varus! Redde mihi legiones!
Varus! Varus! Give me back my legions!

Fortis cadere, cedere non potest
(A brave man may fall, but he cannot yield)

http://www.kalkriese-varusschlacht.de... is the link to the museum.

Thank you very much for the link Harvey....for our group members around the world..please look to the upper left hand corner for the language option.

Interesting quotes.

Thanks Bentley.
Latin should be more widely taught! B***t fashion! It is the basis for many languages and I just wish I could remember more!

Me too...a lot longer ago than I care to remember I attended a Latin High School which is one that catered to learning Latin as one of the languages for all four years. And that was along with studying French and German and the regular college preparatory curriculum. And I still use it today in terms of decoding vocabulary.

So do I decode that way! :))

Here is another decent account; "The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History" by Peter Heather.

by P.J. Heather
Reviews:
"a colourful and enthralling narrative...an account full of keen wit and an infectious relish for the period." - Independent On Sunday
"provides the reader with drama and lurid colour as well as analysis... succeeds triumphantly." - Sunday Times
"a fascinating story, full of ups and downs and memorable characters" - Spectator
"bursting with action...one can recommend to anyone, whether specialist or interested amateur." - History Today
"a rare combination of scholarship and flair for narrative" - Tom Holland
"it is unusual for a modern academic historian to arrive at, let alone articulate, so thorough a conclusion." - The Times

That looks great also.

I have mentioned the author Michael Grant previously, here are a series of books that he published covering the history of Rome:

and (no cover) and and (no cover) by Michael Grant

Here are a few very good books covering the fall of the Roman Empire for those who wish to read further after completing Gibbon.

by Peter Heather
Reviews:
"A rich and dramatic synthesis of the latest research on Gibbon's old story.... The drama of Mr. Heather's book lies not just in the world-changing story he has to tell, but in his behind-the-scenes view of how historians work. Like a master detective, Mr. Heather employs the most various techniques--everything from pollen sampling to archaeology to literary criticism--to wring the truth from the reticent past.... What Mr. Heather offers is not easy analogies but a realization of the complex strangeness of the past--the achievement of a great historian." - Adam Kirsch, New York Sun

"Like a late Roman emperor, Heather is determined to impose order on a fabric that is always threatening to fragment and collapse into confusion; unlike most late Roman emperors, he succeeds triumphantly." - The Times of London

"Gibbon's 'awful revolution'--the decline and fall of the Roman Empire in the West--still casts a pall. Yet, as Peter Heather's brilliant mixture of rapid flowing narrative and deeply thought analysis fully brings out, it still exerts a pull too. 'Lepcisgate', Alaric's Goths, and Attila's Huns are all thrown into Heather's melting pot along with Roman imperial aims and mismanagement. The outcome is a conclusion Heather finds pleasing--and Gibbon would not have despised--that Roman imperialism was ultimately responsible for its own demise." - Paul Cartledge, University of Cambridge

"To a period that has often appeared as impenetrable as it is momentous, Peter Heather brings a rare combination of scholarship and flair for narrative. With this book, a powerful searchlight has been shone upon the shadow-dimmed end of Rome's western empire." - Tom Holland, author of Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic

"Deftly covering the necessary economic and political realities of decline and fall, Heather also presents the stories and the characters of this tumultuous epoch, in a colorful and enthralling narrative." - The Independent


by Adrian Goldsworthy
Review:
"At only 40 years of age, British historian Goldsworthy's (Caesar) ninth Roman history offers the same high level of scholarship, analysis and lucid prose as the previous eight. After a superb survey of Roman politics and civilization, Goldsworthy begins with the death in A.D. 180 of emperor Marcus Aurelius, whose reign is traditionally viewed as the apex of Roman power. During the disastrous century that followed, emperors rarely ruled more than a few years; most were murdered, and civil wars raged, though there was some stability during the reigns of Diocletian and Constantine. Invasions slowly chipped away at the empire until it vanished in A.D. 476 with the abdication of the last Western emperor. Goldsworthy makes sense of 300 years of poorly documented wars, murders and political scheming. Highly opinionated, he presents surviving documents and archeological evidence to back his views such as that Constantine became Christian because Roman leaders traditionally believed that divine help won battles, and the Christian god seemed to Constantine like the front-runner. This richly rewarding work will serve as an introduction to Roman history, but will also provide plenty of depth to satisfy the educated reader." - Publishers Weekly

Here are some interesting cartoons, images, etc. regarding The History selection.

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

"It's true Caesar, Rome is declining, but I expect it to pick up next quarter." (smile)

ENVIRONMENT, GEOGRAPHY, FACTS OF LIFE

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

Some additional photos and images provided in link

It is odd but the word Republic (actually meant the public thing) and of course the found fathers were adamant on calling our fledgling country - a republic!

Also the word Senate is derived from the term for the Roman Senate where the word at that time meant "old men".

Here are some of the terms:

Terms:

SPQR: Senatus populusque Romanus, "the Senate and the People of Rome."

Republic: from res publica, "the public thing." Rome’s form of government from c.500 BC to 31 BC. Later, emperors claim to be "preserving" the Republic even though they have assumed dictatorial power.

Senate: Literally "old men." An assembly of elders from Rome’s wealthiest and most powerful families. Supremely powerful in the Republic, under the Empire the Senate maintains a prestigious advisory role.

Principate: Term for the Roman imperial regime in the first two centuries after Augustus. One of the emperor’s titles was princeps, or "first" (hence "prince".)

Augustus: Title granted to Augustus by the Senate, meaning originally "one who brings prosperity." It eventually comes to be synonymous with "emperor."

Caesar: Originally the family name of Julius Caesar, Octavian and others, it eventually becomes one of the imperial titles. Hence Kaiser, Tsar.

Imperator: Originally a military office ("general" or "commander-in-chief"), it becomes an imperial title. Hence "emperor.

It is also odd after reading The First World War and discussing Kaiser Wilhelm and the Russian Tsars - that the title itself really translates to Caesar and became not simply a family name but an imperial title.

Source: http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

I am placing this source on this first thread versus the glossary for those folks just starting out and who want to keep all of the emperors straight. Here is an excellent source which should help do just that.

WHAT IS DIR?

DIR is an on-line encyclopedia on the rulers of the Roman empire from Augustus (27 BC-AD 14) to Constantine XI Palaeologus (1449-1453). The encyclopedia consists of (1) an index of all the emperors who ruled during the empire's 1500 years, (2) a growing number of biographical essays on the individual emperors, (3) family trees ("stemmata") of important imperial dynasties, (4) an index of significant battles in the empire's history, (5) a growing number of capsule descriptions and maps of these battles, and (6) maps of the empire at different times. Wherever possible, these materials are cross-referenced by live links.

These contents are supplemented by an ancient and medieval atlas, a link to a virtual catalog of Roman coins, and other recommended links to related sites. The contents of DIR have been prepared by scholars but are meant to be accessible to non-specialists as well. They have been peer- reviewed for quality and accuracy before publication on this site.

Source: De Imperatoribus Romanis: An Online Encyclopedia of Roman Rulers and Their Families

http://www.roman-emperors.org/

An online encyclopedia of Roman and Byzantine emperors (search chronologically or alphabetically), with links to maps, portraits and coins, family trees, short biographies, up-to-date bibliography. Currently has excellent coverage for the fourth and fifth centuries, a bit spotty for second and third centuries.

ROMAN CIVILIZATION IN THE FIRST AND SECOND CENTURIES

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

PAGANISM, EARLY CHRISTIANITY, AND ROME

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

THIRD-CENTURY CRISIS, DIOCLETIAN, AND PERSECUTION

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

CONSTANTINE

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

JULIAN THE APOSTATE

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

CHRISTIANS, PAGANS AND JEWS IN CONFLICT

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

ORTHODOXY AND HERESY

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

IMPERIAL POWER

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

ECONOMY AND SOCIETY, WEALTH AND POVERTY

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

CHRISTIANITY AND SOCIETY

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...

ASCETICISM AND MONASTICISM

http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis...