Children's Books discussion

Oh, lord! My Internet Security software won't let me open the link because it contains "illegal drug use." Guess I need to tweak my parental controls! lol

I'll find a back way to sneak in! The software blocked a monarch butterfly site once for sexual content! :-O

Chandra wrote: "And yet I still say that The Old Tobacco Shop could make a really kick-a feature film! HA!"

I think so too, but you'd probably need to replace the magical tobacco with something more acceptable by today's standards. I've just finished rereading an old German boys' boarding school story by Erich Kästner کلاس پرنده (das fliegende Klassenzimmer, the Flying Classroom in English) and I was surprised how acceptable and almost de rigeur smoking was, even on school grounds. All of the teachers smoke and the older students are even permitted to smoke in their dormitories. Of course, the story was written in the early 30's when smoking was not only acceptable, but no one really knew how harmful not only first-hand but second hand smoke was, but it still kind of shocked me a bit (not, that it took away from my enjoyment of the story, though).

Abigail wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "I'll find a back way to sneak in! The software blocked a monarch butterfly site once for sexual content! :-O"

I'm simply agog! What did it say about monarch butterflies that was..."

I think it was a piece about breeding/mating habits. My daughter thought it was hilarious! (I think they must just pattern match for key words.)

Gundula wrote: "Chandra wrote: "And yet I still say that The Old Tobacco Shop could make a really kick-a feature film! HA!"

I think so too, but you'd probably need to replace the magical tobacco with something m..."

I think the racial stereotypes bother me more than the smoking.

Spirou et Fantasio, tome 5 : Les Voleurs du Marsupilami, which we read in German, has all of the African natives with the big lips and the bone through the nose. The pictures just make me cringe....

Jeannette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Chandra wrote: "And yet I still say that The Old Tobacco Shop could make a really kick-a feature film! HA!"

I think so too, but you'd probably need to replace the magical tobacco ..."

One of the most racially insensitive comic books I have ever had the misfortune of reading was Tintin Au Congo, which is Euro-centric and paternalistic at best (and absolutely disgustingly racist in its descriptions of and attitudes to Africans). In fact, many of the Tintin comics promote a Euro-centric world view and engage in racial stereotyping, but Tintin Au Congo really takes the cake.

Seems the French comics were the worst! The sad thing is, you still see such imagery in Europe today.

Jeannette wrote: "Seems the French comics were the worst! The sad thing is, you still see such imagery in Europe today."

They really haven't learned and/or changed their imagery and language much. It drives me absolutely crazy, for example, that while in North America, we have, for instance, striven to use more inclusive terms to describe the original inhabitants of this continent (Native American, First Nation), in Germany, for example, they still (even in academic circles) tend to call them "Indianer" (Indian). I know that in many cases they are not trying to be negative or racially insensitive, but I wish they would find a more inclusive word or expression.

You still hear the word "Neger" which I have to remind my husband not to use! The language just hasn't evolved like it has here, maybe because minorities are still consider in the minority. (If I expressed that properly?)

Jeannette wrote: "You still hear the word "Neger" which I have to remind my husband not to use! The language just hasn't evolved like it has here, maybe because minorities are still consider in the minority. (If I ..."

You don't just hear that word, you read it, as well. I have relatively recent (from about 1989) dictionary of deities and demons, Dictionary of Gods & Goddesses, Devils & Demons (which is called Lexikon der Götter und Dämonen in the German original, which I have). The German original still lists many of the African tribes under the heading "Neger" (not acceptable, in my opinion).

I just read this news article and it is very appropriate to our discussion! Bravo to the students who lauched this protest!

Ann Coulter

Read all the way to the bottom about Muslims and camels.

Jeannette wrote: "I just read this news article and it is very appropriate to our discussion! Bravo to the students who lauched this protest!

Ann Coulter

Read all the way to the bottom about Muslims and camels."

That was on the CBC as well. I cannot believe she told a Muslim student to take a camel (she said it was a joke, but it's no joke to me). She (if you can actually call Ann Coulter a person) was supposed to give a talk at the University of Ottawa, which has now been cancelled because there was so much protest (sorry, but anyone who thinks that all Muslims are terrorists and that all Muslims should be banned from planes and take camels or flying carpets instead is not engaging in "free speech" but is engaging in racial hatred, is engaging in verbal terrorism).

I can't even stand to look at her books in the store. I avoid listening to her. Maybe another 100 years and things will finally change?

Jeannette wrote: "I can't even stand to look at her books in the store. I avoid listening to her. Maybe another 100 years and things will finally change?"

Me too. On the CBC news story, they had a picture of her. She even looks scary.

Chandra wrote: "I agree so much with that! I've found that I discuss it very little with my daughter out of ignorance/awkwardness or both, but I know that I really need to work on this! I just have a hard time f..."

I agree with this. I think the recent election here in the US gave us a perfect opportunity to discuss lingering racism. Plus, all the discussion about illegal immigration and making Spanish a second language in government offices, always gives opportunities for discussion points. I know that bigotry and fear of "others" will never quite go away, but I think more and more young people are moving away from practicing this.

I work with teens and created a "Young Leadership Forum" about racial harmony. Many of the teens in our area are not as racially prejudice as they use to be, but they still create ways of segregating themselves into defined groups. It could be by their popularity, athletic abilities, how much money their families have, the clothes that they wear, etc.

One fact we try to make sure that they walk away with is that as a species, we are all 99.99% genetically identical and they are separating themselves in these artificial groups for a .01% difference.

We also lead them in discovering what they really desire in life and what really matters to them. They find that it is all basically the same for everyone. They can celebrate their differences and fully appreciate how they are the same.

I guess the real question for us is why we need to label people in the first place. I am struggling to figure this out myself. Any suggestions?

Abigail wrote: "There's a really good study of the perception and depiction of Native Americans in European culture, Gundula, from 1492 to the present, called [book:Europe's Indians, Indians in Europe: European Pe..."

I have that on my to-read list, but I have not been able to locate a copy at our library. Maybe I should try inter-library loan. I'd love to buy this book, but I don't have the money for it at the moment, sigh.

I am going to try those blogs as well. Thanks for pointing them out.

Suzanne wrote: "I work with teens and created a "Young Leadership Forum" about racial harmony. Many of the teens in our area are not as racially prejudice as they use to be, but they still create ways of segregat..."

I think being in a group gives a sense of security, as well as a sense of power (which is probably the reason why most street gangs form). Also, if someone feels threatened, unappreciated etc., it is unfortunately often easier to pick on someone even "lower down" even less fortunate than oneself than to deal with one's own insecurities and problems.

very true

I think family groups are wonderful and a source of our rich cultural heritage. It is definitely a survival strategy because we could not survive without our relationships with each other.

I was trying to share my experiences of the students that I work with and it really isn't the grouping that had negative consequences but rather the ranking of these groups that seemed to belittle some and benefit others.

Gundula wrote: ..."if someone feels threatened, unappreciated etc., it is unfortunately often easier to pick on someone even "lower down" even less fortunate than oneself than to deal with one's own insecurities and problems."

This is so true.

Suzanne,

That's why, when dealing with bullies, one does not only have to stop the abusive behaviour etc., one also has to figure out why the bully is acting the way he/she does.

You know, it's so funny (but not humorous) how we often complain about certain countries like Great Britain and others that still have an active aristocracy being socially stratified, when even in North America this occurs, but just in other guises (like ranked groups and the like). I wonder if it's part of human nature, because it happens both in countries that have a definite social stratification and those that seemingly do not.

I think ranking and social stratification are part of "animal" nature. You see it in a wide variety of animal groups. Even here in my house, as the dog has gotten older the cats have begun to harass him, biting his ears, something they know hurts him.

Human beings, able to "reason" beyond these animal instincts, will hopefully someday eliminate the distinctions between them and us. But it takes a lot of work, things like Suzanne is attempting, and making changes in our own way of thinking.

well there are always leaders and a power holder

Jeanette said, "Human beings, able to "reason" beyond these animal instincts, will hopefully someday eliminate the distinctions between them and us..." and Darren Shan talked about leaders.

Leaders are people who influence others. We are all capable of being leaders by showing people we can live without making judgments or distinctions between us. We are always looking for positive role models. I'm sure in our own way, we are already doing this.

Margaret Mead said: " Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed individuals can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

Apparently the original post was something related to The Old Tobacco Shop, a very early and interesting Newbery book. Do any of you know more about what is missing?

deleted user wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Chandra wrote: "And yet I still say that The Old Tobacco Shop could make a really kick-a feature film! HA!"

I think so too, but you'd probably need to replace the magical tobacco w..."

We love the Spirou und Fantasio adventures, I have had to do a lot of explaining about stereotypes though and why it's not right now but they (in the past) weren't being deliberately offensive, just arrogant and misguided. We are going through the B.C. Reinvents the Wheel comics. Truck loads of mysogany but it is funny in a "can't believe we were so stupid as to think like that kind of way"

Just realised this is a thread last posted in 2018 - serves me right for only checking the month.....

Elspeth wrote: "Just realised this is a thread last posted in 2018 - serves me right for only checking the month....."

That's OK. The topics are left open, so anyone can come and make comments at any time, even if the topic has not been visited for awhile.