Alice I Have Been discussion

I've just barely reached chapter four and I'm a little worried. Is... is Louis Carrol (Mr. Dodgson) a pedophile in this? Does he try to make a move on Alice? I mean... I really didn't like Lolita and I don't want to get into that again.

Don't worry about spoiling it for me, I really want to know so I can avoid it. It's not like they put a PG rating on books.

I don't know if it actually happens but I made it to 120 pages before I put it down because it was so icky and kept hinting at an inappropriate relationship...

Read on.

I don't know if you REALLY want me to ruin it for you, but I agree with Lynn, READ ON. I too was struck by the "icky" hints, in fact this is one of my dislikes from the book, I felt the author hit you too hard with this issue... any way, yes, keep going, Alice grows up, other loves come into her life, and I think you will be glad if you stick with it.

I too agree with Lynn. Keep going. I was a worried about where the story was going at the beginning because Alice in Wonderland is my favorite children's story of all time (second favorite book). After finishing it though (and doing lots and lots of research into the Alice/Dodgson relationship)I really enjoyed the book. One thing that I think a lot of people forget is that the way adult/child relationships and interactions have drastically changed over the years and what seems "icky" to us was not back then.

Yes, Mr. Dodgson is a dirty old man who falls in love with Alice, but like all these other comments - you must read on. This was a very good book!

I would agree -- keep reading. What I found so fascinating about the book is that it lays out a plausible account of the relationship between Dodgson and the Liddell's, including Alice, and paints what seems to me a very true picture of the social mores of that era. You see how the characters are shaped by sibling rivalry and academic rivalry.

I hope you kept on reading because the ick factor sort of gets lost in the "rest of the story" as you go.

Read the authors notes. There is some good insight about this time period, and how we would automatically assume he was a dirty "old" man.

Keep Reading.

Another good novel about Lewis Carroll is Mad Hatter Summer. In this mystery, Dodgson's feelings for his child-friends are absolutely pure but he is blackmailed by others who construe them as dirty. At the same time, one of his child-friends is growing up and falling in love with Dodgson in a way he is not capable of returning. The resolution to the murder-mystery plot didn't float my boat but the portrayal of Dodgson's relationship with his child-friend is complex and very interesting.

there is a theroy that Lewis Carroll was a pedophile, and the book does run with that theory. However, that's only the authors opinion. The pedophilia theory - known as 'the Carroll myth' - has been under very strong attack by historians for the past ten years and there are a lot of scholars who say that this was most likely just evil rumors. There are also other unaccuracies in the book, so if you find the idea of Lewis Carroll being a pedophile upsetting, it's not really an accurate description of historical characters anyway, so there's no reason to be upset about it.

It hinted, but never came out and said it. It makes a pretty good case that there was some impropriety going on, but if you're worried about a high 'ick' factor, it isn't here.

Jessica wrote: "I've just barely reached chapter four and I'm a little worried. Is... is Louis Carrol (Mr. Dodgson) a pedophile in this? Does he try to make a move on Alice? I mean... I really didn't like Lolita a..."

It is a dark and twisted tale and I had thought it was nasty of the author to create such a malicious tale until I read the author's note. I could identify the author's basis of assumption.

Yes, the first portion made me sick. But I do appreciate the author's refrain from turning the writings erotic like in "The Girl with A Dragon Tattoo". Didn't like the erotical element.

Since 1999 Biographers have repudiated the "pediphile" gossip and have exonerated him. SURELY MS BENJAMIN WAS AWARE OF THIS; SO WHY THE BOOK INSINUATING THAT HE WAS A PEDOPHILE?

Re: "Alice I Have Been" The early rumors of Lewis Carroll, aka Charles Dodgson were largely based on 20th & 21st century eyes, and did not factor in that in Victorian times this was a prevalent aesthetic and philosophical movement of the time. Studies of child nudes were mainstream and fashionable in Dodgson's time and made as a matter of course. Child nudes even appered on Victorial Christmas cards.

Early biographers claimed Dodgson had no interest in grown women, however that has been proven false by Dodgson's personal diary and papers, and in fact were his relations with women were deemed scandalous (by the social standards of his time). Dodgson was a teacher and enjoyed children and was always chaparoned. There has never been direct proof that the relationship was anything other than platonic.

In 1996, a note in Dodgson's neice's handwriting, written prior to the Diary's pages being removed, stated that the break between Dodgson and the Liddell family was caused by concern over alleged gossip linking Dodgson to the family governess and to "Ina" (Alice's OLDER sister, Lorina). The missing pages had nothing to do with Alice.

And yes, I have a BIG bug up my ... regarding Ms Benjamin defaming popular 20th century folks who are not around to defend themselves. See my review of "The Aviator's Wife" or "The Autobiography of Mrs. Tom Thumb."

Thank you Clelia: I am amazed at how little feed back I have received regarding my numerous posts about Ms Benjamin and especially "her" take on "The Aviator's Wife". Dale

I think it's very unfortunate that anyone came away from this beautiful novel with the inclination that Benjamin was painting Dodgson in a negative light or insinuating pedophilia on his part. It seems as though the material was grossly misinterpreted. Also, this is a work of historical fiction, which is clearly stated in the book. Benjamin took historical events and filled in the blanks with her imagination. I think a lot of you missed the point.

I agree Sara. I didn't see him as a pedophile at all, merely misunderstood. Rather, the fictional family may have felt threatened and that his actions were inappropriate, but the author portrayed him sympathetically. Even that character Alice as a woman did not seem to think he was a predator at all, but was disappointed in the end of a childhood era. It's important to keep separate the actions/thoughts of some of the characters in the book from those of the writer.

Thanks, Lara. It's refreshing to know that someone else was able to interpret the book in a similar way.

Although his behavior struck me as inappropriate I wouldn't put him in the same category as a pedophile. I do get the vibe that he had intimate feelings for her which is a bit grotesque, but that he did not act on it. I saw him as peculiar. She was his muse. Keep reading. I even ended up feeling a bit sorry for him.

You can keep going, there is never anything "real" said so...its more of our imaginations that makes it that creepy. I think I didn't think much of it because often in history it wasn't unusual for girls to be married off in their early teens. Try not to compare it to today's norm. It is an interesting read none the less.