Wild Things: YA Grown-Up discussion

I'm against censorship, absolutely. If my (currently I've a 14 yo son) child wants to read something I don't think he's ready for, I warn him. If he wants to read it anyway, I read it too - and he knows this.

We know sex and violence and drugs and anorexia, etc., are part of life. We talk that stuff sometimes. For example: He asked me (at age 13) for suggestions how to let a girl know he's interested in her. I told him that an article I was reading said sexting was a big problem in some schools and I hope he's careful not to get involved.

I would prefer he be eased into the world of adult stuff gradually. I don't think he needs to read about BDSM while he's still a virgin, for example. After all, I would think his first experiences would be more special if they were less tainted by stuff he may find in books (or other media) that are too mature for him.

I also think that too much exposure to portrayals of drug use, suicide, child abuse, war, etc. is not good. Those people I know who are into those kinds of books have a dark vision of humanity, and don't seem ready to have hope for their own success or a better world. They also seem to think that those bad things are a much bigger part of life than they actually are.

I was very sheltered. I still don't like thrillers or literature that addresses "dark secrets." I've been accused of "looking at the world through rose-colored glasses." But I think that's a good thing. People like being around me because I'm an upbeat and optimistic person, nicer, less cynical and less whiny than my friends who do read the dark stuff.

I want my son to be the same way. So, while I don't shelter him as much as my parents did me, I would *strongly* discourage him from reading V.C. Andrews, for example. There's so much other stuff for him to read that will be a better influence on helping him to become a strong happy person and a good citizen.

So, that's me & my thoughts. What about you?

I agree with this outlook Cheryl. I definitely think that parents should be reading what their kids do. :)

I'm pretty much with you Cheryl. I think kids are exposed to way too much of everything graphic these days. Commercials for some video games alone are enough to give me nightmares. I was a very sheltered kid - in almost every way. Even tho my parents never looked at the books I was reading, lol!

Unfortunately, it's a part of life for kids today - growing up too soon. Truthfully, I think it's sad.

I would agree with that. Kids are bombarded with sex, drugs, abuse, etc. from TV, movies, music all the time. They are encouraged to grow up too fast with little time to be kids. I wrote my book with this firmly in mind. I wanted to write a story that kids my daughter's age (14) could identify with but that didn't have to do with many of those darker subjects that are so prevalent today.

A Measure of Disorder

Alan, your book looks really neat. But it's still got the word "fight" in the description. And I'm not sure kids need more fantasy, either - again it gives them a disconnect of what life is really like.

That being said your book looks like it should be a hit and I'm putting it on my to-read list!

Thanks Cheryl! Yes there is physical conflict in the story, but nothing that wouldn't be seen on TV or a PG13 movie ... much less in fact I'd say.

One of my main ideas was to put the reader in a position to think. "What would I do if that happened to me? How would I handle it?" They may agree or disagree with the decisions that the characters in the story make, but as long as they're thinking, I'll be happy : ).

I agree with you also, Cheryl. My son is the same age as yours, and it's a tough age to "protect." I just try to offer a variety of books at home that I think he'll enjoy (fantasy is his favorite) that I feel are age approprIate. Which is not to say that some don't deal with heavy issues, invariably those are the ones he seems to pick up! But I read them too, so we can discuss them as needed.

Actually, discussing books with my son is one of my favorite things ever. Really cool to hear his thoughts on books like I Am the Messenger, or his feelings about the Spackle in The Ask and the Answer.

My son is only 7 but I look forward to discussing books with him! I've worked hard to have a very open relationship with him (being a single mom makes it neccessary). I hope he feels comfortable coming to me with questions about girls and life.

As far as the books he reads goes-I agree that parents should read what their children read. I try to protect my son from the adult things as much as possible, yet I still find him growing up too fast. :(

Lani, all, I think part of the reason I'm lucky enough to be close to 14 yo son is that I've always been free with physical contact with him. While I encourage his independence in many areas, and have done so when he's small, I've never tried to wean him off hugs & snuggles. I know not all kids will let their parents hug them, but I do think parents should do their best to maintain a physical link so the children don't feel pressure to grow up *too* fast.

(Although in our eyes it seems they always do - we're never ready for how fast they get big and smart and strong even though that's what we want for them!)

So I think that's why it works so well for us to read what they're reading, rather than forbid them to read it. It maintains that link between parent and child.

I agree with the discussion here. Many people get parenting/teaching confused with censorship. Some books are more appropriate for certain ages and should be left up to the parents if they feel it is something they want their child to read or not. Just because I don't put some books in my classroom library doesn't mean I agree with censorship. Just because I tell a parent that they shouldn't let their 12 year old read Push by Sapphire isn't censorship. It is good parenting and teaching. We need to expose kids to realistic situations, but age appropriate realistic situations.

(Now, I don't agree with taking these books of the shelf at libraries and book stores- that is pure censorship. I may not have a book in my classroom because I feel it isn't age appropriate, but a parent can find the books somewhere else if they feel it is okay for their child to read it.)

What Kellee said is perfect! The books I choose to buy and place on the shelves in my living room and my children's rooms are books I hope they'll read, but they have access to the library and book stores and I wouldn't say no if they bring home a book I feel may be beyond them. THAT would be censorship, as opposed to "guided reading".

As an example, my oldest son recently went on a reading kick, beginning with Maus I: A Survivor's Tale: My Father Bleeds History, about Nazi Germany. He read quite a few books on the subject, and was appropriately horrified by them. I had read most of what he was interested in, so knew what to expect. When he brought home The Castle in the Forest: A Novel, I requested he wait until I had read it before he began. He had no problem doing that because he knew I'd still let him read it, I just wanted to be prepared.

When I said no to Ashley reading a Gossip Girl book in 5th grade, I in no way saw that as censorship. I saw it as responsible parenting.

This is why I'm glad it's America and we're all free to choose. When I explained to Ashley why I felt that book was inappropriate, she had no idea that kind of stuff was in that book and agreed with me. There was no argument (and she's a pretty headstrong kid)!

I'm glad to hear that a lot of parents have this kind of relationship with their children when it comes to reading. For the most part, my parents censored me when I was growing up. In the end it made matters worse not better, since they weren't comfortable talking about certain subjects and no one else was teaching me, I had to learn some things on my own and the hard way.

Many people don't seem to understand the difference between age-appropriate and censorship. Working in a public library, I see this quite often. At times parents who hold a certain belief try and have books removed from the library. Granted, a YA book that is fine for a 17yo, is not always fine for a 13yo, but that doesn't mean it should be removed from the collection. It is the parents' responsibility to know what their child is reading, not the librarian's. A librarian's job is to help find appropriate books for the reader. If a parent believes a book is inappropriate for their child, then that needs to be between the child and the parent. Anyway, that's just my view. :-)

In addition to all that has been said, having been a teen/YA myself, I firmly believe that forbidding a child anything just makes it more attractive. It's certainly not hard for a child to hide the reading of a book. Isn't it better if you know what their reading, even if it's against your better judgement?

I have never censored what my kids read. My oldest is 7, and she hasn't been exposed to older books yet. When it comes to movies and books, my husband and I try to be involved with them. Even when they were little and watched Dora and Blues Clues, we would watch with them so we could talk about the lessons in the cartoons.

Now they watch TMNT and Avatar the Last Airbender and movies with more plot, and we are right there beside them, swapping movie quotes and talking plot points with them.

But now my daughter reads soooo much, I can't keep up with her. She's into chapter books, and a chapter a night is too slow of a snail's pace.

Yet I still try to be involved.

Kandice wrote: "In addition to all that has been said, having been a teen/YA myself, I firmly believe that forbidding a child anything just makes it more attractive. It's certainly not hard for a child to hide the..."

I think it depends on the child. And all of the circumstances.

Which is why it's great that we all have a choice, and that it's up to the family, and not the government/library, to decide what young kids read.

Rita wrote: "I have never censored what my kids read. My oldest is 7, and she hasn't been exposed to older books yet. When it comes to movies and books, my husband and I try to be involved with them. Even when ..."

I think the reason that I paid close attention was because of the stuff I was reading in fifth grade. If I hadn't been reading that stuff, I may not have reacted the same way.

Agreed, Laura. I'm only 20 years older than my son, and 14 is still pretty clear in my mind. My reactions are based on MY life experiences and mistakes. I try to take all of those things into account when making decisions for Kieran. It's definitely a juggling act!!

My parents were super strict growing up, and that did make the "forbidden fruit" look sweeter. I'm hoping I'm a better balance of firm and easy than my parents were. I was one of those kids who read Forever at a friend's house because my mom would've freaked.

I feel the same way Angela. I try very hard to be a better balance as well. And I also come from that same super strict background. I don't disagree that when you're forbidden to do something, it does look more tempting, but what I tried to do was explain my decisions when they were "no" decisions. There were only a few I can remember.

I think elementary school aged kids should be protected, as much as possible, from blatant, graphic sex, violence, whatever. Ideally, I'd like to protect them forever, but unfortunately, it's just not realistic.

(Me too with the age difference! I was only 22 when Ashley was born. So I remembered a lot - maybe too much lol about my younger years.)

As a comparison, my mother was only 17 when she married and had me, and her parents were very lenient hippy types, still are actually, and my mom never censored anything I read. I cannot even recall a situation of her or my dad guiding me away from anything or toward anything. They let me read anything and everything I wanted. I was reading the newspaper, all of it, by kindergarten. And I've turned out just fine.

I don't have kids yet, but I think that allowing kids to read about the unfairness of life, or the cattiness of teenaged girls, or whatever, helps to prepare them for when they will have to deal with it in real life. *shrug*

ETA: I should add that I'm not saying that this is the only way, just offering a comparison as perspective. It's up to the parent to determine what is appropriate based on their child.

Yeah. It's really hard to generalize. I do think it depends on the child, mostly. Other things too, lots of variables, but it depends on the parent & the child. I'm really glad we're free to make our own decisions. I'm generally in the minority it seems, but I've gotten used to that.

I'm weird anyway, because I'm pretty conservative in terms of bringing up kids - in almost every way you can think of - but yet pretty liberal in my politics. So I don't fit in with either side.

I was a pretty fierce mother when my children were smaller. No bottles or pacifiers. Ever. Cloth diapers. Absolutely no baby-talk. No store-bought babyfood. They were never babysat by anyone other than my in-laws or very close relatives. No pre-school, but I taught them each to read and write long before they went to school. I think all of things make me conservative, if not down right old fashioned.


I'm not saying all that to be argumentative, just to show that I don't think how we decide to censor, or NOT censor our children's reading and viewing materials has much to do with our other parenting decisions.

I still think there's a difference between censorship and being a responsible parent. Smoking's not OK, drinking's not OK, reading about oral sex in 5th grade's not OK.

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I don't think that makes me a good or bad parent, but it makes me a parent that can look in the mirror and say I did / am doing the best job I can.

And really, that's all any of us can ask for. I couldn't have lived with myself if I'd behaved any differently.

We all have to do what we think is right. My mom, who raised nine kids, has told me that many times. "At the time, I did what I thought was right."

I think we all do that.

Of course we do. We all see different things as right and that's perfectly fine, especially considering we are looking with our hearts as opposed to our eyes:D

:)

It's not unreasonable, Laura, but, for instance, my mother is not a bad or irresponsible parent because she did not choose my reading material for me. I consider myself to be a very well balanced and intelligent person. My brother and I were loved and trusted by both of our parents, even though we didn't always see eye to eye on everything with them, but speaking for myself, I think that made more of a difference in how I grew up, and the decisions I made getting here, than any book choice could have.

It's not unreasonable to not want 5th graders reading about oral sex. But, it's a plain fact that kids are having sex younger and younger these days. I think that they can learn something from books if they do read them, and if their parents are willing to use that as an opportunity to talk to and teach their kids.

I'm sure that everyone loves the not-yet-a-parent joining in on conversations about parenting... but I'm not that far off from being a teen either. I can think of quite a few lessons I learned from books that I would not have otherwise learned, maybe until it was too late. I'm STILL learning from books.

I think that there's only so much that a kid is willing to take in from their parents as far as "life lessons" go... But books can help a child identify with the things that they deal with on a daily basis... pressure about sex, peer pressure, cliques, drinking, drugs, whathaveyou, and open the door to conversation that's not a "Oh no, here comes dad with his 'sex talk' again" vibe.
I personally don't think that sheltering a kid from those things does them any favors... They will learn about them anyway, and most likely from the worst possible source: their equally unknowledgeable friends.

I don't think that there's a "right" answer to this, and as I said before, it depends on the child and the parents themselves. I for one am proud that I was trusted to read my choice of books. I am happy with and proud of the person and the reader I am today because of that freedom.

When we're ready here, I look forward to new topics about particular controversial books. One thing I've learned while reading this thread is that we do have different opinions not only about how much to shelter our children, but also about what to shelter them from. Personally, for example, I have much less problem with sex than I do with violence. Which makes my opinion just about diametrically opposed to those folks who rate movies.

So, when topics are started for specific books, I hope we remember to share our thoughts in detail, and from our own perspective.

If you have a book you want to discuss, go ahead and create the thread, Cheryl. :)

I think a good way to do that, while making it helpful, would be to have parents who are "considering" books make a thread about them asking for details. Somewhere above, Laura I think, said it should be more a list of what's involved as opposed to our opinion on if it is or is not appropriate for this or that age.

Even someone like me could use that information. Not to decide if they can read it or not, but to get ready for what discussions could come up as a result.

Well said Kandice. I don't have any books in mind right now, either that I'm wondering about or that I want to give parents a 'heads-up' about. But I'm glad this folder was started, especially cuz it has some really smart and passionate people contributing!

Yes, I think a facts based discussion would be helpful to everyone. And I don't mind your input at all, Becky. Like someone else said, it says a lot for us as parents and educators that we care enough about our kids to even have this discussion. In a world with so many absentee parents, I'm pleased we aren't some of them!

Thanks Angela. I'm pretty opinionated, and not very shy to express them, but I know that sometimes the not-a-parent commentary isn't appreciated. ;)

As Angela said, it's all good.

Wow, I'm glad we started this discussion! I've been pondering this for way too long, I really needed to jump in with both feet!

Here's an article on book banning. I find it fascinating that this father was most perturbed by the opening statement that included the phrase "I hate school."

That is a very good article. Very informative and right on. It's not an author's job to teach or raise the children of the world with their book(s) - it is the parents who should be raising and teaching their kids- and only THEIR own kids.

Fiona wrote: "I have a non-parent suggestion for all of you brave parents.

How about starting a list of all the books your children have enjoyed?

That way it might help others find books to share with their c..."

I love this Fiona! I'll start it a new thread here.

Now I've got some new books on my to-read list!

Wiff and Dirty George
Mr. Granite Is from Another Planet!
Briar Rose

I know no one has posted here in awhile but I just wanted to say something. I am a young adult and I guess I like the "Dark Stuff" kind of books. I have great intrests in the paranormal, occults ( though I would never join one), devil, dark history, old wars, etc. and a lot of the things that a "goth" person would be intrested in. I am in no way goth, and I don't look at everything in a bad way. But I also don't look at it as in everything is amazing. I look at things as what they are. I think that kids should read fantasy it gives them an imagination and that is one thing that a lot of people lose as they get older. I hope to never loose my imagination because I have been and always will be a writer. I don't think that parents should read every book there kids read ( I know my Mom doesn't) I think that parents should let kids choose there own books and trust them enough to not read books that are too "inapproprite" for them. This is just my opinion and no one has to read this or listen too it. I just felt I should defend people who read as you guys say read "the dark stuff."

Well said Amanda. There does have to be a certain amount of trust involved, and parents have to be willing to step in and discuss and teach etc when necessary. But you are absolutely right that that there is nothing wrong with reading what one likes. I did, and do, and I'm a perfectly sane adult. (I think.) :P

Becky wrote: "Well said Amanda. There does have to be a certain amount of trust involved, and parents have to be willing to step in and discuss and teach etc when necessary. But you are absolutely right that tha..."

At least someone agrees with me:) My parents don't really "shelter" me but I'm not open to everything either ( I can't watch R rated movies (But I get that one), but unlike most people my age I am extermely mature, and I know they say when you think your mature your not but compared to what my friends do and think is fine, I am totally against. I can't get into there heads and make them understand why these things are bad! I have formed my own opinions it's not from my parents and it's not because I'm religious because I'm not and that was a desision my parents let me make. And it makes me wonder how many parents would let their kids at a young ago make their own ideas and choose what to follow and what not too.

I do agree that parents have to trust their kids too, to some extent.

Do you mind if I ask how old you are, Amanda? What are your favorite "dark" books right now? I see you like Cirque du Freak, which are somewhat dark, but fun books too.

Heather, I'm 34 and my son is 14. He recommends books to me all the time which is really awesome. Like you said, it gives us something to talk about... some common ground (which is tough to come by at this stage.)

I DO try to be mindful of what he reads, but luckily he really enjoys fantasy which tends to be pretty "clean" anyway.

AngelaSunshine wrote: "I do agree that parents have to trust their kids too, to some extent.

Do you mind if I ask how old you are, Amanda? What are your favorite "dark" books right now? I see you like Cirque du Freak, w..."

I am the same age as your son:) I don't have a lot of dark books that I like right now. But I really like the Demonata (by the same author as CDF) I like R.L.Stine and I was reading IT but I got bored so I quit for now. And of course I LOVE CDF! I like to read Horror/Mystery. I also really like historical fiction. I like to read Non-Fiction books about the Paranormal Etc. I would rather have the real stuff and the real history than have made up stuff. I like Fiction a lot more than Non but with the paranormal/history I want the facts.

I'm going to jump into this conversation. I hope that its not been branded "Closed" yet.

Okay. So, I'm twelve years old. I love YA and review it. (Potter, Percy, and I, by the way). My parents trust my judgment. I will stop reading a book if I feel that I'm not mature enough for it. But I really do believe that I'm very mature for my age. My mom used to think so, too. She read 19 Minutes, and let me read it with her supervision. I've definitely stopped reading books because I didn't like how age-appropriate the content was. I stopped reading Twisted(?). I'm not sure if that's its name, and I'm not sure who it's by. Its the one with the red heart and the the blue heart made out of ribbon, and they meet in the middle as its cover art.
Usually, I'm fine with cuss words and drugs (I've only ever read one book that had any drugs, though). I have, though, avoided books and stopped reading them for these reasons. The one that really gets me is... you know what I mean. I almost didn't finish 19 minutes for this reason. (Not violence. I can usually take the violence)
My dad is a pastor and I have two little brothers. We've driven across country 4 times, two of which were to move. One was very recently. I've lived with my bratty little cousin for six months. I know that all this has a part in my maturity. I know that I'm not mature enough to enjoy an adult book (I didn't love 19 Minutes). But I really do believe that I'm mature enough to read YA.
And I really read any YA.
Oh no. There I go again. My crazy repeat-myself-500-times-rants. Thanks to whoever read it all through. You rock!

Thank you Anne and Amanda for chiming in! You both have some valuable insights and I sure do appreciate reading them.

I don't see any reason to ever close this thread - new members, parents or children, are always welcome. :)

Nope. No reason to close the thread at all, it's nice to get all of the viewpoints. That's what GR is about - it's a discussion site!

Going back and reading all the older posts on this thread, I'd like to add to my post.
My parents have never censored anything I've read. Not that I remember. My mom read 19 Minutes because I had checked it out of the library and she was genuinely interested in it. She didn't read it to censor it. We had some great discussions about the content of the book and I learned a ton about the world, good and bad.
I know a website that is literally by a woman who censor what her 15 year old daughter reads and then posts giving the reasons why she cant give the books to her daughter. I don't think that I would like that, not having the freedom to choose what you read.
My dad let me and my brother watch Kingdom of Heaven. He had seen it many, many times before. Its one of his favorite movies. He watched it with us and skipped most of the innapropriate scenes. My brother (hes ten) didn't know what was going on all the time.
We watched that movie purely for educational purposes, not because we wanted to. Yes, my brother did want to, but Dad would not have let him if we weren't studying the crusades in homeschool.
I don't think that was a bad choice of my dads. But when a person says that their child can't read something just because it has a few bad words or suggestiveness? I don't think thats right. But then again, I'm only twelve. And its up to the parents if the child is mature enough to read the book.

Anne wrote: "I'm going to jump into this conversation. I hope that its not been branded "Closed" yet.

Okay. So, I'm twelve years old. I love YA and review it. (Potter, Percy, and I, by the way). My parents tru..."

Holy moley, Anne! I didn't know you were so young :) I am very impressed with how well spoken you are (and how cool your bookmarks turn out!)

Angela wrote: "Anne wrote: "I'm going to jump into this conversation. I hope that its not been branded "Closed" yet.

Okay. So, I'm twelve years old. I love YA and review it. (Potter, Percy, and I, by the way). My parents tru..."

Holy moley, Anne!..."

I didn't know you didn't know I was that young, Angela! Thanks so much for the compliments on how mature I sound. And I don't think my first bookmarks were what they really should have been. I hope that this ones better!