My Adventures Through Theology and Beyond discussion

OK does everyone have their sins washed away by God
do only some religions get to pass through the pearly gates (example: just christians and jews)
or do only those who have professed Christ
as their savior get to party with God?

Well if your a Christian....well at least if you believe in the Bible and your a Christian and you have accepted Jesus into your heart as your savior to wash away your sins then I believe you can go to Heaven this is not our decision as much as God's..

That's my belief.

Girl4beluga wrote: "And is that not just a cocky arrogant belief."

I'm sorry I don't believe the same way you do it's my belief you don't have to have it.

Girl4beluga wrote: "It is the equivalent of you saying that blacks won't get into heaven because of their skin color...and you want me to be okay with that?"

Just to tell you its not the equivalent because alot of my friends are African American and they are awesome!!!!!! and again you don't have to believe it.

Girl4beluga wrote: "I never said you were racist against blacks however it is basically what you are saying..."

No it's not since I said nothing about blacks. This isn't just a group of people it's their decision. And I've decided to follow te Bible that's all.

Girl4beluga wrote: "I WAS USING IT AS A AN EXAMPLE!!!!! you judging them based on their beliefs is wrong."

Hello!!!!! I said you don't have to believe it and you've already judged me and called me time after time a fundy so don't talk.

Well I'm not saying you have to go to hell...I mean you could at least just accept Him into your heart to be sure....Even though that's not Christianity is all about to me...emphasis on the me.

Girl4beluga wrote: ""..I mean you could at least just accept Him into your heart to be sure."

So live your life in fear of the unknown???"

No actually the opposite....cause if you accept him but still believe in everything else then if your right it won't matter.

Girl4beluga wrote: "But we can't cover all the options that could happen after we die........so we should just prepare for the one that makes the most sense for yourself."

Good point okay well then I stand firm in my beliefs.

Girl4beluga wrote: "good you should but you can't say that someone else won't get into heaven because of their beliefs."

Well if I did I wouldn't be standig firm on my beliefs.

Girl4beluga wrote: "It is the equivalent of you saying that blacks won't get into heaven because of their skin color...and you want me to be okay with that?"

You made a bad example.

I believe the same thing you do Swordmaiden.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "good you should but you can't say that someone else won't get into heaven because of their beliefs."

Well if I did I wouldn't be standig firm on my be..."

good for what

Girl4beluga wrote: "that you aren't going around telling people that they are going to hell"

Well I wouldn't actually say that even if I wasn't a Baptist. Anyone can go to Heaven if they accept Jesus into their hearts in my beliefs.

Girl4beluga wrote: "and what if they choose to believe in their own (as respectable) religion...like Hinduism."

Um...then I believe again this is my beliefs that they will go to hell. This is not because they are not loved but because the punishment of sin is death.

Girl4beluga wrote: ""because the punishment of sin is death."

How could you believe something so cruel like that?

So our punishment for being human is eternal damnation?"

Well in the beginning we were sinless then we became human...

and it's not so cruel really it's logical if you do something bad you get punished. we sinned when we were perfect like God and we accepted though not quickly death.

I think you got number 3 wrong.

Jesus is our savior because he is the prefect sacrifice. The blood that makes you as pure as snow.

1. In the beginning we were created in the image of God, Genesis says nothing about being sinless, we just learned the difference between good and evil.

That's incorrect, it does just not in those terms. After each day the bible says "And God saw that it was good" If it was good, then how can there be sin involved.

2. If God created us with freewill then how can using that God given gift of freewill be a sin? Does this not make God responsible for us sinning?
God could have made us obedient humans who mindlessly follow everything he says, but where is the love? How can it be love if we don't choose him. No, using our freewill is not a sin. But, the way Adam and Eve used it was a sin. They went against what God told them which is the very defintion of sin. God is not responsible for us sinning since it was Adam and Eve's free choice.

3. The logic of punishment for doing something wrong is a product of human/social law. The God of the Bible is mostly about Grace, freely forgiving others.
How can you give someone grace if there is noting to be given forgiveness from. Wouldn't forgiveness be pretty useless if there is no consequences either way. Also, you have to accept God grace for it to be grace, if that makes any sense.

4. To sacrifice the life of another, and the spilling their blood, in order to meet the requirements of some law seems rather barbaric rather than characteristic of a God worthy of praise.
This is what I can think of off the top of my head, so don't quote me on it. It's more about the act, not the actual blood. When Jesus died, that wasn't the end. He conquered death and rose three days later. He conquered death and won the battle so we could live.

@ your number 1, there was no sin until we ate from the tree, therfor that is why it was "good"

God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "and what if they choose to believe in their own (as respectable) religion...like Hinduism."

Um...then I believe again this is my beliefs that they will go to hell. This is no..."

I think that people who have read the scriptures and do not believe; in other words, have purposely sinned, should go to hell. I also think that people who are other religions, as they were brought up that way, and don't know Christianity, or read the Bible, should NOT go to hell.

When have I said that?

Did you read my post?

Well because if we didn't believe that Christianity is the only way to get to Heaven then we wouldn't be able to call ourselves Christians.

@ your number 1, there was no sin until we ate from the tree, therfor that is why it was "good"

I looked up the definition of sin and it says "any act regarded as such a transgression, esp. a willful or deliberate violation of some religious or moral principle." God didn't create sin, he just created freewill.

@B4B

Part of the very thing that makes Christianity different then other religion is the belief that the only way to heaven is through a belief in Christ Jesus and a belief in the Bible as is. This eliminates all the other religions I can think of as a way to heaven (eg Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Mormonism, etc.) So, according to Christianity, the only ones going to heaven are Christians.

Can you explain fundamentalism for me B4B.

But God is personal, loving and forgiving. And because of this he "sent his only begotten son that who ever believes in him will never die but have eternal life" (John 3:16)

Here's a verse to consider

Romans 10:9,10 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

I was thinking about believing in the Bible "as is" statement, and I remembered there is a bit of room for difference of opinion so I would like to retract that statement. (For example, Catholics add some extra books) I don't believe they are going to go to hell just for adding some books.

wow, thanks :D

Excuse me but again you (g4b) are using fundamentalism as if it ment people who are completely without brains because the earnestly believe in what they think is the word of God. And again if you ever look up the definition of Christian it says someone who believes on Christ AND His teachings which is the Bible.

It depends on how you earn your way to heaven. No matter if you are christian or catholic, you have to act and believe like a follower of God. You cant just be like ' oh I go to church sometimes, I was baptized as a catholic or christian, and I love God and believ what He teaches us'. You have to show it, THATS how you get to heaven. You have to show that you believe it, and not be afraid of what other people think, just know that Jesus is your one and only. Thats how you find your way to the gate, leading to eternal life with our Father

Hmm.... let's see it says the teachings of Christ fundamentalism which is good even though your trying to make it sound back...not you Nattie.......is what being a Christian is when you have accepted Jesus into your heart.

Yes, its the same way with Catholicism (mostly), you have to accept Him into your heart, soul and mind, and let Him guide you on your path. You have to act like a discple of God, love Him and no others before Him. But, for you and your faith, what do you mean specifically by excepting Him into your heart? I explained what I think it means, but what does it mean to your religion? (you are christian, and im catholic, thats why im asking)

G4b, what do you mean that God cant be all those things if he sends his children to hell? Those people who did something wrong in their life didnt repent, and didnt believe in God for all their lives, therefore, it isnt that God doesnt still love them! He is always loving! How could you say that he isnt? God is never anything other then loving

Yea, I know that. Catholics are Christians, but Christians arent Catholic because Christianity was branched off of Catholicism, therefore, Christianity made some different opinions they didnt believe about Catholicism.

why does it matter? What religion you are? Can't it just be what relationships you share on earth? A merciful, loving, caring, forgiving God CAN"T be those things if he sentences his children to hell...I believe you have a CHOICE and that isn't limited to just your time on earth.

God does not condemn you or sentence you to Hell, you make your own choice. You're right, of course God wouldn't sentence us his children to Hell, he loves them. When you don't accept Jesus, you aren't choosing God. God sent Jesus who died on the cross so that all those who believe in him can go to heaven.

@Nattie
That sounds about the same as the Protestant beliefs(or at least like the ones the reformed church I go to has).

@julia: Its in general, what most religions believe. So its going to be said about ALOT of beliefs, that they practically do/think the same way.

Well, alot of those other religions arent similar to catholicism.

and you have one life to show that you are either going to heaven, hell, or (most likely the majority) the middle...im sorry, i forgot the name!!! UGHHH! oh wait, pergatory. And you have one life to show God what it means to love Him, serve Him, and believe EVERYTHING HE SAYS. You have one life to show it, thats why its important that people need to except God into their lives, and repent for ever doubting Him. Doubting God is the beginning of your Wisdom and faith, believe it or not. Thats when you are open to knowing if God exists or not! Thats when you start to open your heart, and recieve His love.

Lets assume christianity is true? Why do you think that choice is limited to our earthly lives? why do we only get one chance to "know" what the Divine is?

Hmm, I am not completely sure. I have thought a bit about that myself. Is there anything I can read about that theory?

You keep saying the Abrahamic view ofGod...sorry but the abrahamic view of God is exactly the God of the Bible....so yes that is wat the Abrahamic view of God is.

Girl4beluga wrote: "Nattie *PROUD* wrote: "Well, alot of those other religions arent similar to catholicism.

and you have one life to show that you are either going to heaven, hell, or (most likely the majority) the ..."

Um...because once you die you die...unless Jesus comes down to earth to save you or you magically come back to life.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "You keep saying the Abrahamic view ofGod...sorry but the abrahamic view of God is exactly the God of the Bible....so yes that is wat the Abrahamic view of God is."

really..."

No it's not you do realize that the people of Islam the actually race are the enemies of the Isralelites? And Judaism has the same concept of the Old Testament and I'm talking about Christianity.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Nattie *PROUD* wrote: "Well, alot of those other religions arent similar to catholicism.

and you have one life to show that you are either going to he..."

Sorry but I meant physical death that's all....so you just misinterpreted me.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "You keep saying the Abrahamic view ofGod...sorry but the abrahamic view of God is exactly the God of the Bible....so yes that..."

No the Islamic people or Arabs were sons of Esau who was before Abraham.

^ I always had trouble spelling protestant until i figured out that it was just protest + ant

sorry to come in late, but I've noticed that many people say that we must have faith in God

In order to have faith we must accept that we may not be right, therfore we have faith instead of "knowing"

I'll put this statement out: I can't imagine God in all his wisdom putting Anne Frank or Ghandi in hell

sure, what was his real name again?

Girl4beluga wrote: "But we can't cover all the options that could happen after we die........so we should just prepare for the one that makes the most sense for yourself."

"There is a way that seems right to a man,
but that way ends in death".

Girl4beluga wrote: "Julia wrote: "@B4B

Part of the very thing that makes Christianity different then other religion is the belief that the only way to heaven is through a belief in Christ Jesus and a belief in the Bi..."

Christ himself called Abraham the first believer of the Jewish faith and the father of all God's children. So all who believe are related to Abraham, the first Messianic (Christian) follower.
Abraham was in no way teaching another way to God, but saw Christ and was glad.

Julia wrote: 1. In the beginning we were created in the image of God, Genesis says nothing about being sinless, we just learned the difference between good and evil.

That's incorrect, it does just not in those terms. After each day the bible says "And God saw that it was good" If it was good, then how can there be sin involved.

2. If God created us with freewill then how can using that God given gift of freewill be a sin? Does this not make God responsible for us sinning?
God could have made us obedient humans who mindlessly follow everything he says, but where is the love? How can it be love if we don't choose him. No, using our freewill is not a sin. But, the way Adam and Eve used it was a sin. They went against what God told them which is the very defintion of sin. God is not responsible for us sinning since it was Adam and Eve's free choice.

3. The logic of punishment for doing something wrong is a product of human/social law. The God of the Bible is mostly about Grace, freely forgiving others.
How can you give someone grace if there is noting to be given forgiveness from. Wouldn't forgiveness be pretty useless if there is no consequences either way. Also, you have to accept God grace for it to be grace, if that makes any sense.

4. To sacrifice the life of another, and the spilling their blood, in order to meet the requirements of some law seems rather barbaric rather than characteristic of a God worthy of praise.
This is what I can think of off the top of my head, so don't quote me on it. It's more about the act, not the actual blood. When Jesus died, that wasn't the end. He conquered death and rose three days later. He conquered death and won the battle so we could live.

Julia, this post is great. Thank you.
#4 has one little change that I could see (just a speck). I would say the act is necessary too, but without the payment (Propitiation) through the acceptable sacrifice, there is no forgiveness of sin. "There is no remission without the shedding of blood" and "The life is in the blood and I have given it to you as an atonement". 1 jOHN 2:2 says (Jesus) is the atoning sacrifice for our sins". As that lamb was being tied down to the altar and we all placed our hands upon his head, we transferred our sins to him, then his blood was shed and paid for our transgressions. Being sinless, he could do this. He took them and paid not just with an act, but with the blood. Wow. Good post.

Girl4beluga wrote: "And the "first sin" wasn't eating the apple (because that is just a creation story that is expose to be taken metaphorically and symbolic) the "first sin" was most likely the ability TO SIN."

G4B, it almost seems like you want to know.

The Bible says "In the day that you eat of it, you will die".

Death had not entered the world, so sin did not exist until the partaking of the fruit, which was sin because God stated death was not present yet until man transgressed by an act of volition, period. It was not metaphorical or psychobabblish. Man had the ability to sin from the moment he walked, but he did not invite sin into our world until he actually ate of the fruit, not meditated on the fruit.
Three parts of man seem to be evident at creation:
1. He was sinless
2. He was blameless
3. He was able to fault

Christ seems to be the same; tempted, but was without sin, so he never faulted. Therefore he is the 'Last Adam' and the progenitor of a New Creation and father of those whom he has forgiven and created anew in His image (or finished the creation of God's image in man originally).

Now, you might try to say "the ability to sin is sin in itself", but it isn't. The choice to sin isn't sin. Sinning is sin.

^ but the original sin was of Adam and Eve was the ability to be sinful, by knowing good & evil

Girl4beluga wrote: Not necessarily you seem to confuse christianity with fundamentalism.

G4B, I really like this statement.

To actually believe the Word of God is written by God so people can understand God like He is and make sense out of Him and his work of salvation is a fundamental belief of Christianity, IMHO.
To say that God can't be known because the Bible is debatable, has manuscript difficulties, has missing books, seems to be a liberal, unbelieving approach to a form of Christianity that leaves its adherents out in the cold, finally stating 'We really can't know anything for sure. God is unknowable and we are all ignorant". If that is your idea of christianity, good luck. I know God, I read his word and just spoke with him this morning and several times through the day. Anyone who doesn't have the relationship that Jesus says they WILL have with him are out in the cold, christians by name only and lost.

Jesus didn't come to give us another religion, but a relationship with the living God. It is wonderful to know Him like a friend as well as a savior.