Christian Goodreaders discussion

I've noticed that many of us read books other than those considered to be in the Christian category. Do very many people on here read non-Christian fantasy? I am a huge fan, and I'd love to have some discussion. Post your favorite fantasy books, or whatever you'd like to, really. I love a Lot of fantasy, but the one that first comes to mind as one of my absolute favorites would be "The Book Thief." It could almost be considered historical fiction as well. Has anyone else read this MARVELOUS book?

It's sort of important to note that the Christian category is over-run with books produced by Trademark Christian publishers whose work is targeted to a very specific audience. Sadly, this has many throwing authors who write stories from their Christian beliefs out in the non-Christian category.

In other words these targeted publishers hi-jacked the label Christian. A book isn't non-Christian if doesn't show up in the Christian category. It's simply not targeted and written for general market audiences such as yourself which actually includes mostly Christians of one belief or another. ;)

I know, it's confusing at best. I'm still trying to figure out who gave one targeted group the permission to exclusive use of a broad label like Christian. Really?

Sue raises a good point; Christian fantasy, defined as fantasy written by a Christian and informed by his/her faith-based view of the world, is a category that's much broader than just the publications of the ECPA- affiliated publishers (indeed, I think the ECPA didn't even exist until around the mid 20th century). Several of the writers mentioned over on the Christian Fantasy thread write for other, secular publishers (including one of my own favorites, practicing Roman Catholic Patricia C. Wrede). And in some cases, where one doesn't know much (or anything) about a given author's beliefs, and his/her work neither contains explicitly Christian nor clearly anti-Christian elements, one can't really categorize the books in those terms. (That's true of other genres besides fantasy, as well.)

All of that said, there are some non-Christian fantasy writers that I've read with great enjoyment. I haven't read virulently anti-Christian fantasists like Philip Pullman, who avowedly use their work as a platform for propaganda against religious belief, and personally don't have any desire to. But that doesn't describe all non-Christian fantasy writers; there are some whose work reflects, to varying degrees, the common grace and general revelation that all humans share. Piers Anthony, who's a professed agnostic, is an excellent example; both in his delightful Xanth series and in Through the Ice (co-written with the late Robert Kornwise, who was Jewish) he shows himself to be a profoundly ethically-oriented writer, centrally concerned with promoting good moral choices and attitudes, and frequently exploring the ethical problems and challenges of his characters.

Being a fan of sword-and-sorcery fantasy myself, one of my favorite fantasy writers is Robert E. Howard (creator of Conan and Kull, among other characters). None of his biographers mention any Christian connection on his part, and his work has no distinct Christian elements; some Christian readers might be quite repelled by the level of gory violence and the orientation towards a decidedly tough-minded view of the world that's present in his work. But he grew up in what was still a Christian-influenced culture; and for all their toughness and perception of life as a fight that they'd better win, Howard heroes like Conan and Kull do exude a basic moral integrity, sympathy for the underdog and respect for honesty and fair-dealing (as well as disdain for the opposites --if Conan had been around when Jesus cleansed the Temple, I could picture him nodding in hearty approval :-) ).

It's an unwritten law that, whenever I write a post about some general category of literature, after I've already clicked "post," I always think of several authors I should have mentioned. :-) Another one that comes to mind in this connection is contemporary British writer Tanith Lee, who has stated on the Internet that she's not a Christian, but who admits to being in sympathy with "the basic teachings of Christ." Her writing often straddles the line between fantasy and what I call supernatural fiction (set in this world rather than a fantasy one), but it usually involves the magical; she often retells fairy tales with a twist, and her writing has a lyrical, sensory-rich quality. What I've read from her pen is all short fiction, but I've liked most of what I've read; and her "Red as Blood" is actually as strongly Christ-centered in its symbolism as many works by Christian fantasists.

As a Mormon writer, Orson Scott Card would classify himself as a Christian writer; but he's nevertheless certainly outside the ECPA, evangelical camp. While he's primarily an SF writer, his Tales of Alvin Maker series, set in an alternate 19th-century America where magic works, is one of my favorite fantasy series. Some other favorites of mine in the fantasy field are Charles de Lint, Raymond Feist, and Terry Brooks. I don't know anything one way or the other about their religious beliefs (except that Feist's fiction indicates belief in God, and Brooks uses some Christian terminology in Running With the Demon --though the basic worldview there seems to be more dualistic than Christian, IMO); but they write for the secular publishing industry, and their fiction, while wholesome, is not "sanitized."

I do realize that the title "non-Christian fantasy" is a very broad and hard to define one. However,I meant fantasy that is not sold at a Christian store, nor have very clear and blatant Christian metaphors, such as a God, a sacrificial son, etc.

Although I realize that Lord of the Rings is one that is quite hard to box in to either category by my definition. It was written by a Christian man, though not marketed as Christian literature. It has Christian metaphors, but not blatant or overpowering ones. You have to look for them. So, I see that my definitions are not all-encompassing.

However, by my definitions, what do you guys like to read that falls somewhat into the non-Christian genre?

I've already messaged Abby with an answer to this question, with that definition (she'd asked it to me earlier in a PM), so I'll let some of the rest of you folks have at it!

I (as I know Werner knows) love fantasy. Tolkien did mention Christian connections for his trilogy, though in the preface he discourages any "preconceptions" as to "meanings" in the books. He refers to them as "applicable" in that people will probably find they apply to different readers in different ways. I find the Christian principals and examples literally jump off the page for me in these books though others don't.

Another "book" I love (I put book in quotes as I'm about to mention another trilogy but I read it in an omnibus edition and always think of the trilogy as one book. the title I use is that of the omnibus edition) is The Deed of Paksenarrion. While the book presents a world of polytheism, there are obvious Christian principals in play. I suppose it's an eye of the beholder thing but (and I would think Roman Catholics might find it even easier to identify with this story. The use of marshal saints for example) (by the way I'm not R. Catholic). Still I think most Christians who are looking for a fantasy read might enjoy this one.

There are others of course, Jim Butcher's frank discussion of his doubts about religion while writing a character who is openly Christian and of great faith as a supporting character is an example. Even Dracula is based in a Christian world view that is more rare today.

Being a writer of YA Christan fantasy, I find this discussion fascinating.

I began writing my series ALLON Allon: Book 1because my daughter asked me. Some have argued the Christian merits of Harry Potter, but we disagree with that,which is why we didn't let her read it to begin with. However, she felt left out of conversations with her friends and that prompted her request. From there it grew to where the friends became interested in what her mom was writing.

For me, the goal of an author should be to write with a purpose. My purpose began by giving my daughter her story, but grew to become a tool to help her friends of different faiths and cultures understand the Truth we Christians hold dear and the hope it give us.

What better way to do this than to follow Christ's own example of parables and stories.

Shawn, that's so true: Christ himself set the precedent for conveying spiritual truth through the medium of storytelling! I've just added both of your books to our written-by-group-members shelf.

Thank you, Werner.

No problem, Shawn. Best wishes with your writing ministry!

I like Neal Stephenson's work. It's hard to classify and most people end up simply going with "speculative fiction", which is really what all fiction is by definition when you think about it.

Anathem is possibly his most fantasy-esque work so far, with strong religious themes. But the religion itself is fantastical, being essentially a story about a monastic community of mathematicians.

Anyone else a fan of Stephenson's writing?

Being a librarian, I've heard of Stephenson, and the BC library has a (donated) copy of Snow Crash. (Just based on the cover copy,I classified that one as science fiction.) But I've never read any of his work myself. Possibly others in the group have, though.

I read Anathem in a group read. It was one of those that many gave "rave reviews" but it left me cold. I haven't read anything else by him since...

Yes. Non-Christian SF and fantasy both, in the sense of works written by non-Christians.

A great deal depends on how they treat the religion in the book. Even when it's non-Christian, and not even sound natural religion. Frequently, it's shallow, thin, and silly. (And I have actually read an atheist solemnly defending it because -- on cherry-picked evidence and her interpretation -- religion is shallow, thin, and silly.)

There's generally a difference in non-Christian and anti-Christian. Some books/writers treat Christianity with respect and even acknowledge it with actually endorsing it. The Harry Dresden books are an example of that. Then there are books that attack Christianity.