Philosophy discussion

If you were introducing somebody to Platonic thought, which dialogues would you start them on. And why?

Hmm, I have two ideas about the order that Plato can be introduced.

1. Chronologically seems to be the most logical.
Early dialogues, then on to Transitional & middle dialogues, then to the Later middle dialogues.

2. Start reading the descriptions of each piece, and start with the one that is most interesting to you. I've found that books leave clues to other books (especially in footnotes, mentioning of other works and authors in the actual text, etc), and you kind of go here to there without any kind of structured path. If you like what you're reading, you're more likely to continue in the same direction.

I've been surprised with the number of people who don't like reading Plato. I wonder if reading books written about Plato's works would be better than reading Plato himself?

p.s. I haven't read Meno, but after your summary, Patrice, I'm going to check it out. Thanks!

I admit to being a flummoxed by Everyman's question. My first impulse is to suggest Plato's Apology. That would concisely introduce a lot of Socratic thinking to a someone who hasn't read Plato, but would it really be Platonic thought, which is what Everyman specified?

Chris is right. Different dialogs touch on different stages of Plato's intellectual development. His middle dialogs are really more uniquely his own than the earlier ones. So I don't know how far the earlier dialogs can go in introducing Plato's thought.


Chris asks --

I wonder if reading books written about Plato's works would be better than reading Plato himself?

This, in conjunction with one of the middle dialogs, might be a good way to introduce Plato. I myself have gotten more out of various commentaries on Plato than I have out of the actual dialogs.

Besides the dialogs, does anyone know of any good commentaries on Plato's work?

Tyler wrote: "
Besides the dialogs, does anyone know of any good commentaries on Plato's work? "

Since Patrice mentioned the Meno, I should certainly mention Jacob Klein's A Commentary on Plato's Meno.

He has also written Plato's Trilogy: "Theaetetus, "The Sophist" and "The Statesman" which I don't know, but I do know that Klein is was of the world's foremost Platonic scholars and an engaging writer, so It should be excellent.

I can also highly recommend I.F. Stone's The Trial of Socrates. Stone was a well known gadfly newsletter publisher back in the 50s and 60s (I.F. Stone's Weekly) who when he retired taught himself Greek so he could read Plato in the original. He set out to answer the question whether the traditional view that the citizens of Athens committed an attack on basic truth in condemning Socrates to death was a fair representation of the situation. His inquiry says a great deal about Socrates and ancient Athens. Highly recommended.

Some links on the Plato discussion:

A Commentary on Plato's Meno

Plato's Trilogy

The Trial of Socrates

Another writer who has devoted time to the Greek language and the proper interpretaion of Plato is Gregory Vlastos:

Platonic Studies

Has anyone read Plato's Laws? I'm planning to read it this month, and wondering if anyone would like to have a small group book discussion.

Hi Nemo --

Are you reading this as part of a philosophy class? For Plato, it seems like an awfully large book.

I'm sitting here trying to scrape the last vestige of eggs and salsa from my plato.

I'm glad your relationship with your food is strictly Platonic.

Tyler wrote: "Hi Nemo --

Are you reading this as part of a philosophy class? For Plato, it seems like an awfully large book."

Not for a class, but for my continued education. I'm sort of a fan of Plato. In Laws, Plato takes a more realistic approach to statesmanship than in Republic. Should be an interesting read.

Tyler wrote: "I'm glad your relationship with your food is strictly Platonic."

You mean the way he keeps food at a respectable distance rather than eating it? :)

Hi Nemo --

If you're interested in Plato that sounds like a great way to continue with him. The Republic is too idealistic and general as a guide to governance. It would be interesting to know if Laws has had a lasting effect on jurisprudence in the West.

Yes, I think Robert should be respectful toward his eggs and salsa, and the two should never be mixed together on the same plato.

Patrice wrote: "The Meno. It was the first dialogue Plato's students learned at the Academy. If you understand the Meno you understand that

l. Nothing can be taught but everything can be learned.
2. It is a vi..."

Thanks for this summary, I've definitely added this to my list...
I'm actually currently reading Plato's Republic, I haven't as yet read the Laws, but would gladly follow a discussion on such, once time permits...

Marts (Thinker) wrote: "I'm actually currently reading Plato's Republic, I haven't as yet read the Laws, but would gladly follow a discussion on such, once time permits."

If only we could find some knowledgeable people to lead the discussion. :)

I've read Republic but not Laws. It would be interesting to see the comparison.

Nemo, why not just start a discussion about Plato's Laws on a separate thread and see what happens. I'm sure people will join in and help out.

OK. Here is the thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...

Sure thing I'll be following...