The Bookworms of RVA discussion

Post all comments, questions, interesting info here!

Well ... to start with:

"The Nihilists" from The Big Lebowski

Just finished book one, getting into book two. So far, very enjoyable. Funny as hell at certain parts- especially when the General's wife was remarking on the Prince telling a story and said "There he goes now." or something like that after he's begun the story. I was laughing for a while after that.

Yea, I remember it a quite a funny book specially the entry of Prince Myshkin into the St. Petersburg's Society and his encounter with the lady Natasha or something ... I'm planning to start my reading next year.

I also found out today by chance about Bakhtin's book on Dostoevsky:
Problems of Dostoevsky's Poetics

Just finished book one the other day and moving quickly through book two. Great stuff! Had a hard time getting all the characters and monetary situations straight but once you get past that its a very compelling story.

Into book four, a lot of my confusion regarding certain character's places within the tale has been clarified in the opening paragraphs of this last book... clever. Dostoevsky and The Idiot embody the originality that is emphasized so greatly in this novel. Very happy to have been reading this one. I'm taking my time with the last book, the ending has been building up nicely, can't wait to talk more about it.

Can anyone explain exactly what makes Mishkin a prince? I'm not sure I understand - is it his ancestry?

He's a prince by blood... his ancestry, same thing. What I'm not sure of is if he knew he was a prince his whole life or if the Swiss doctor uncovered that he was of nobility through the the fact that his relative died, leaving him with an inheritance.

N, how's Bakhtin's book?

Thanks, Dan. That's what I figured. Wasn't sure if 'prince' was given a different connotation in Russian society. I loved the chapter where Mishkin becomes paranoid of Rogozhin's eyes following him. Almost the entire chapter is internal thought until he actually sees him at the Hotel and goes to confront him, then has a fit. AMAING! Anyways, I really like how he goes into detail about his seizures. Seems Dostoesvsky had seizures as well, this being his most autobiographical novel.

Hi Guys - back from Philly. Gene happy belated b'day!

Dan: I haven't started that one since I want to get all the books of Mr. D's read first. But it is definitely one book I will be reading. Bakhtin's supposed to be the first principle guy of sorts for the Anthropology grad. school work with his other work "Dialogic Imagination". I will read him surely hopefully this year.

Going to start The Idiot this week. Will catch up on the discussion you guys are having.

Also, I saw the painting on the tumblr posted by Gene(?). I was an idiot to not have looked up for it the first time I read the book. I distinctly remember pages after pages of high-tension prose about that painting.

I also happened to see that post of the painting. I thought it was one of Jesus being taken down from the cross, not of him laying there... but the God/Jesus as man's effect was not diminished.

I just found a short paper On the Threshold of Representation: The Function of the Holbein Christ in The Idiot by Barbara Fister. I'll read it tonight.

Nice find, N. Also, thanks for the birthday wishes but my birthday's actually in July. My bad!

What do you all think is the significance of the trading of crosses between Rogozhin and Mishkin. The liner notes explain that this was a sign of being "blood-brothers" in Russia. But it's clear that Rogozhin despises Mishkin. It's also very interesting that Rogozhin refuses to give back the cross. Although ... I'm only 350 or so pages in, maybe this is explained further on.

Just some thoughts!

Can we get white-russians for drinks at the meeting this time? (jk)

I haven't reached that scene with Rogozhin and Myshkin yet ... It sounds curious. It reminds me of the medieval custom of the swapping of turbans between the leaders of warring clans in North-India which used to signify the beginning of truce.

Book 4!

I have yet to start the book. I'm drowning under the load of el Supremo's self-imploding monologues, perpetual-circulars, private-notes, secret-memos to self(ves), ...

The book is flying by. All of the characters are absolutely ridiculous. They say one thing and contradict themselves two pages later. Can't figure out if its because they're endlessly trying to be indirect and inoffensive noblemen. Really enjoyed the Nihilists (especially after seeing Lebowski) and enjoy the character of General Ivolgin, the old boozehound.

Guys look what I found. It's a poem by Ingeborg Bachmann - my Sunday gift to
the group.

A MONOLOGUE OF PRINCE MYSHKIN
to the BALLET PANTOMIME "THE IDIOT"



excerpt (The Opening)

I have the word, I took it
from the hand of sorrow,
unworthy, for how could I
be more worthy than the next --
myself a vessel for that cloud
that fell from the sky, plunging into us,
terrible and strange
and sharing the beauty
and all that's contemptible in this world.

Just started the book and it occurred to me if Nastasya Fillipovna was a stand-in for Mary Magdalene or in the parlance of The Dude's time, Bunny? ... this might be just a bad thought.

I don't recall Dostoevsky being snarky ever

"But the general never murmured later against his early marriage, never regarded it as the infatuation of an improvident youth, and respected his wife so much, and sometimes feared her so much, that he even loved her. The general's wife was from the princely family of the Myshkins, a family which, while not brilliant, was quite old, and she quite respected herself for her origins."

Might not be far off, N. Was reading some other comments on Goodreads and some people made the point that critics may be overstating the supposition that Myshkin is Christ. I agree with them in saying that he is "Christ-like", he is able to find good in people who others may condemn (like Natasya Flippovna // Mary Magdalyne).

The first encounter of the Prince and Nastasya is of a horror, Manichean almost. It seems in this world Evil is replaced with Beauty ... Good vs. Beauty where according to the Prince "Beauty is a riddle". Hell...

One of the things I distinctly remembered from my first reading was:

Nastasya Filippovna did not reject the luxury, even liked it, but -- and this seemed extremely strange -- never succumbed to it, as if she could always do without it;

in a way this kind of attitude could place Nastasya perfectly at home in contemporary Williamsburg.

I found an excerpt from Bakhtin's Problems of Dostoevsky's Poetics

And around these two central figures of the novel–the "idiot" and the "madwoman"–all of life is carnivalized, turned into a "world inside out": traditional plot situations radically change their meaning, there develops a dynamic carnivalistic play of sharp contrasts, unexpected shifts and changes; secondary characters in the novel take on carnivalistic overtones, form carnival pairs.
A carnivalistic-fantastic atmosphere penetrates the entire novel. But around Myshkin this atmosphere is _bright_, almost _joyful_. Around Nastasya Filippovna it is _gloomy_, _infernal_. Myshkin is in carnival _paradise_, Nastasya Filippovna in carnival _hell_; but this hell and paradise in the novel intersect, intertwine in various ways, and are reflected in each other according to the laws of a profound carnival ambivalence. All this permits Dostoevsky to expose a different side of life to himself and to the reader, to spy upon and depict in that life certain new, unknown depths and possibilities.

found a Masters Thesis, putting it up for (partly my own) reference:
http://digitalcommons.ric.edu/cgi/vie...

I'm planning to bring 7 or 8 photocopies of the full text of the Ingeborg Bachmann's The Idiot poem for the meeting.

BEAUTIFUL! Killing it, N.

errm... Yeah.

Actually, I just realized that I had access to a very hi-fi photocopier for the reasons that's to do with my current station in life, therefore, I'd decided to put that thing to some good use.

With reference to the people who fell victim to Constance Garnette's rendering of The Idiot: found an hilarious article THE TRANSLATION WARS.(Constance Garnett, English translations, Russian literature )


from the article:

"In the early seventies, two young playwrights, Christopher Durang and Albert Innaurato, collaborated on a satire about nineteenth-century Russian literature called "The Idiots Karamazov." In their liberal interpretation of Dostoyevsky, Father Zosima is a gay foot fetishist. Which causes the angelic monk Alyosha to wonder, "How can there be a God if there are feet?" The main character is based not on any figure in Dostoyevsky but, rather, on his first and most enduring English-language translator, a woman of Victorian energies and Edwardian prose, Mrs. Constance Garnett."