Chicks On Lit discussion

So I've recently started The Great Gatsby. I feel like I'm the only person who didn't read this in high school! Anyhoo, anyone who would like to join me, please do! I'm only about 20 pages in and I'll pause for now to see if anyone's interested.

Well, if you could wait another couple of days, Sarah, I would be so happy to join you. I want to finish up two I have going right now. Please do not feel bad if you can't it is fine with me.

I'd be willing to do it in a few days, too.

No, I'm happy to wait. I'd much rather read along with people than read it by myself now! How about we start on...12/27? It'd probably be a good idea to start after Christmas...

Would this work for you guys?

I read this last year for the third time. I may just skim it, but I'd love to chat about it. I promise not to spoil anything for anyone :)

I read this book in high school. It was okay. I wasn't that crazy about it.

Feel free to join in the discussion, even if you're not reading it. The more the merrier :o)

The 27th sounds fine with me, Sarah. Thanks for waiting.

I read this in hs and Adored it! We followed up by watching the movie version w/Robert Redford. I re-read it in '04 but found I didn't like it! (Truly disappointing). But I'm willing to give it another try but I won't start until after New Years.

I found that each time I read it, I had a different feeling about it. The last time may have been driven by purpose, because I was teaching it. I actually did write a response on my feelings about it as a model for my students and how my opinion changed each time I read it.

Sarah wrote: "So I've recently started The Great Gatsby. I feel like I'm the only person who didn't read this in high school! Anyhoo, anyone who would like to join me, please do! I'm only about 20 pa..."

I have been wanting/meaning to read this for a LONG TIME....I will need to get to the library but I would love to join in! Angie

I'll join in on this discussion... I've always liked this one :)

I've read this awhile ago. This is one of the books that I loved, but didn't enjoy reading, if that makes any sense.

The 27th sounds good. I haven't read this in over 15 years.

What a great book. It will make a good dicussion too. I look forward to reading everyone's thoughts.

I will join in too.

Yay! Ok, so we'll start on 12/27. Also, should we bother doing a reading schedule? It's kind of a short book, so if you guys want we could split it in half, or we could just read as fast / slow as we want and discuss while doing so.

Any thoughts?

It is short Sarah. Perhaps 2-3 chapters a day might be a suggestion. I am open to whatever you want to do. I am so looking forward to reading this book.

I found this on another site here at goodreads.
It was exactly 70 years ago, on this day in 1940, that F. Scott Fitzgerald died of a heart attack in Hollywood at the age 44.

The last decade had been a difficult. In 1930, his wife, Zelda, suffered her first breakdown and hospitalization. She would spend the next several years in and out of psychiatric clinics before being hospitalized for the rest of his — and her — life. After huge critical and commercial success in his 20s, Fitzgerald found himself in his mid-30s deep in debt and feeling depleted. He said: "A writer like me must have an utter confidence, an utter faith in his star. It's an almost mystical feeling, a feeling of nothing-can-happen-to me, nothing-can-touch-me. … I once had it. But through a series of blows, many of them my own fault, something happened to that sense of immunity and I lost my grip." He said, "One blow after another and finally something snapped."

He wrote about it in The Crack-Up essays, published in Esquire magazine in early 1936. He wrote: "I began to realize that for two years my life had been a drawing on resources that I did not possess, that I had been mortgaging myself physically and spiritually up to the hilt." He'd "cracked like an old plate." He said: "Of course all life is a process of breaking down, but the blows that do the dramatic side of the work — the big sudden blows that come, or seem to come, from outside — the ones you remember and blame things on and, in moments of weakness, tell your friends about, don't show their effect all at once. There is another sort of blow that comes from within — that you don't feel until it's too late to do anything about it, until you realize with finality that in some regard you will never be as good a man again. The first sort of breakage seems to happen quick — the second kind happens almost without your knowing it but is realized suddenly indeed."

And it was in these essays that he wrote the often-quoted lines:

"Before I go on with this short history, let me make a general observation — the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise."

He was deep in debt, and so he went to Hollywood to work on movie scripts. It paid really well: In 1937, during the Great Depression, MGM paid him $1,000 per week. His daughter, Scottie, entered college at Vassar, and the next year MGM declined to renew his contract. He drank a lot. He also began work on what would be his final novel, The Last Tycoon.

Throughout 1940, he wrote letters from Hollywood to his daughter across the country. They were letters filled with thoughts on reading and writing. In July, he wrote:

"This job has given me part of the money for your tuition and it comes so hard that I hate to see you spend it on a course like English Prose since 1800. Anybody that can't read modern English prose by themselves is subnormal — and you know it."

He wrote to her about cultivating distinction in her writing style: "The only way to increase it is to cultivate your own garden. And the only thing that will help you is poetry, which is the most concentrated form of style. … I don't care how clever the other professor is, one can't raise a discussion of modern prose to anything above tea-table level."

The next month, he wrote to her:

"Poetry is either something that lives like fire inside you — like music to the musician or Marxism to the Communist — or else it is nothing, an empty, formalized bore, around which pedants can endlessly drone their notes and explanations."

Later, Scott Fitzgerald wrote to his daughter:

"What you have felt and thought will by itself invent a new style, so that when people talk about style they are always a little astonished at the newness of it, because they think that it is only style that they are talking about, when what they are talking about is the attempt to express a new idea with such force that it will have the originality of the thought."

He wrote:

"It is an awfully lonesome business, and, as you know, I never wanted you to go into it, but if you are going into it at all, I want you to go into it knowing the sort of things that took me years to learn.

"All good writing is swimming under water and holding your breath."

Shortly before his death on this day in 1940, he wrote to Scottie about what he called "the wise and tragic sense of life," which he described as "the sense that life is essentially a cheat and its conditions are those of defeat, and that the redeeming things are not 'happiness and pleasure' but the deeper satisfactions that come out of struggle."

And he said, "The wise writer, I think, writes for the youth of his own generation, the critics of the next, and the schoolmasters of ever afterward."

The Great Gatsby
The Short Stories of F. Scott Fitzgerald
Tender Is the Night
This Side of Paradise
The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button
The Love of the Last Tycoon

This is fascinating!

Ok well it's officially 12/27 where I am (it's 12:55 am), but I forgot to bring my copy of the book to work with me, and I meant to work on the reading schedule. I'll look it over when I get home and post some sort of reading time table this morning. I'm very excited to get started!

I am excited too, Sarah! I took the book off the shelf last night in preparation. I guess where you are you didn't have snow. Everything including JFK airport is closed (and they never close). It was quite the storm and is still blowing and snowing.

I think (hope!) our snow is done. I don't go back to work until tomorrow. I won't be reading this one with you all, but may follow your comments. I remember being affected by this book, not necessarily liking it. Thanks, Marialyce, for posting the above. Do we know what happened to his daughter? What a treasure trove of writing she got from her father!!

Frances Scott "Scottie" Fitzgerald (October 26, 1921 – June 16, 1986) was the only child of novelist F. Scott Fitzgerald and Zelda Sayre Fitzgerald. She was a writer, a journalist (for The Washington Post and The New Yorker among others), and a prominent member of the United States Democratic Party.

"Scottie" was born in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Her mother supposedly remarked upon her birth that she hoped she would be a "beautiful little fool." In The Great Gatsby (1925), Daisy Buchanan says this at the birth of her daughter.

Scottie and her first husband, Samuel Jackson (Jack) Lanahan were popular hosts in Washington in the 1950s and 1960s. During this period, she wrote musical comedies about the Washington social scene which were performed annually to benefit the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Washington. Her show Onward and Upward with the Arts was considered for a Broadway run by director David Merrick.

Scottie had four children with her first husband, the eldest of whom, known as Tim, committed suicide at age 27. Eleanor (Bobbie), an artist and writer, is the author of the biography, Scottie, The Daughter of . . . : The Life of Frances Scott Fitzgerald Lanahan Smith, published in 1995.

Her second marriage to Grove Smith ended in divorce in 1979; they had been living separate lives for years. Scottie had moved earlier to her mother Zelda's hometown of Montgomery, Alabama; though she traveled more than she stayed there, she became a beloved and well-known part of the community.

From Wikipedia

Thanks, Shay! I was still browsing on here & hadn't gotten around to looking her up. Interesting.

Yeah, I'm lucky and we haven't gotten really any snow around my area. I'm too far north in NY I guess.

OK, here we go! I'm thinking we can aim for 2 chapters a day, starting with today (there's only 9 chapters total). If you want to read ahead (or a little slower), feel free, but we'll discuss along the pattern of two chapters a day, with the last chapter falling on this Friday.

Hope this isn't too rushed for some people. I'll be honest, I'm doing it this way mainly because New Year's is the weekend, so I figured we'd finish before everyone starts their celebrations. (And because the oddball in me doesn't like to be in the middle of a book when the new year starts...)

Then you all need to watch the movie with Robert Redford. AHH, Sigh. :)

Sounds good to me Sarah! Easy to read so two chapters is surely manageable! Thanks you!

I'm in kind of a reading funk, so two chapters sounds good.

Shay wrote: "I'm in kind of a reading funk, so two chapters sounds good."

I know what you mean, Shay. I am slogging my way through the deZoet book.

Marialyce wrote: "Shay wrote: "I'm in kind of a reading funk, so two chapters sounds good."

I know what you mean, Shay. I am slogging my way through the deZoet book."

I love that book, but it has a few abrupt changes in tone(?), style(?). Parts of it seem like straight, standard historical fiction, parts seem almost like magical realism, and parts seem almost like a spy novel in terms of "intrigue".

I'm just getting going in The Dead Secret & am really liking it so no funk for me right now. Back to work tomorrow so won't be able to read as much. It's on my iPhone though so I can sneak some fun reading in while I'm at work. When I am in a funk, I try to read a fun book -- cozy mystery that I know I'll probably like. I read one recently that was a new author for me & had to slog my way through that. I love that term, Marialyce. :-) Describes it perfectly.

Gatsby's house:
http://www.oheka.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oheka_Ca...

Martha wrote: "I'm just getting going in The Dead Secret & am really liking it so no funk for me right now. Back to work tomorrow so won't be able to read as much. It's on my iPhone though so I can sneak some fun..."

I can't even get into cozies, which are my reading "junk food" of choice. I'm playing a lot of Sudoku on my Nook, though.

Or watch some junk tv! :-)

Shay wrote: "Gatsby's house:
http://www.oheka.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oheka_Ca..."

Beautiful!! I visited the Biltmore in 09. The size of these castles and gardens is just amazing!!

I was a little nervous to start this book. There's no way to be specific and not give out spoilers, but let's just say that there are elements in the book that made me feel that this is a book best appreciated when young.

I'm not yet done with Chapter 1, but so far, I'm not disappointed. I'm amazed by what skill Fitzgerald has and writing a short story or novella is hard. You have to set the stage fast, create believable characters quickly, every word counts. I just love how he did that with Daisy- the name alone makes her seem girlish and simple. I love how quickly we're made to see Tom as a bully and a brute. Love the quote, "As for Tom, the fact that he 'had some woman in New York' was really less surprising than that he had been depressed by a book."

I still wonder how much of Daisy is Zelda. For some reason, as I read, I keep thinking Noel Coward.

Well, I have to say I started this one this morning and I finished it. I just could not put it down. The writing, the characters, the setting is flawless. This is the way authors were meant to write. I did read this so many years ago for school and thought it was ok, but now really reading it as an adult, I so appreciated the words. I thought I read that Daisy was Zelda.

Marialyce wrote: "Well, I have to say I started this one this morning and I finished it. I just could not put it down. The writing, the characters, the setting is flawless. This is the way authors were meant to writ..."

Although it's been years since I've read either, my impression was that I liked Tender is the Night better. I know that that one was specifically about their relationship. I wonder how many of his female characters are Daisy.

Shay wrote: "Marialyce wrote: "Well, I have to say I started this one this morning and I finished it. I just could not put it down. The writing, the characters, the setting is flawless. This is the way authors ..."

That is a book I haven't read in ages, but I suspect you are right with the female leads being in a large part, Zelda. She was a very troubled woman just like so many of Fitzgerald's female protagonists.

Hi Everyone,
I read The Great Gastby in college. It was an enjoyable read. Unfortunately someone stole my book and I have to replace it. :(

The book was made into a movie, not sure how good it is. Anyhow, I may not get a copy before you finish reading it so enjoy! :D

Queen wrote: "Hi Everyone,
I read The Great Gastby in college. It was an enjoyable read. Unfortunately someone stole my book and I have to replace it. :(

The book was made into a movie, not sure how good it..."

Yes, it was, and I think Robert Redford played Gatsby and Mia Farrow was Daisy. I read they are remaking it with Leonardo DiCaprio as Gatsby. Should be interesting to see that! Thanks!

Daisy is thought to be a combination of two women Fitzgerald was in love with, his wife Zelda and Ginerva King. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginevra_...

He "lost" Ginerva because of the difference in their social standing- she was a rich socialite. Makes you think, how much of Fitzgerald is in Gatsby?

It is always so eye opening to me to read of the social class aura here in America. I always connect it to the Europeans and not to us so much. I really have no explanation for that though. In reading this book, I thought often of The House of Mirth where that character also belabored under the social status/monied gentry.

What does everyone think of the physical descriptions of the characters?

Marialyce wrote: "It is always so eye opening to me to read of the social class aura here in America. I always connect it to the Europeans and not to us so much. I really have no explanation for that though. In read..."

I love the generic descriptions of some of the women at Gatsby's parties. So many are dressed in yellow and white- the daisy's (the flower) colors. It's almost like he's saying all women are like Daisy or that she's like so many of the other "society" women. I picture Tom, from the descriptions, as being bear or bull-like, more animal than human. The two women Tom are involved with both have flower names- Daisy and Myrtle. In the Victorian age, both mean love but Daisy means an innocent love and Myrtle means a joyous love.

I found the scene where Gatsby and Nick dine out for lunch fascinating. Their lunch companion, Meyer Wolfsheim, mentions a man called Katspaugh and Gatsby sounds like he gets nervous. Is it because they have "shady" dealings or because the name is pronounced "Cat's Paw". Or both? Because Nick is Gatsby's Cat's Paw. From Wiki: Cat's paw is a phrase derived from La Fontaine's fable, "The Monkey and the Cat", referring to a person used unwittingly by another to accomplish his own purposes."

I loved the women in the story as well. They seemed as transparent as the clothes they are described wearing. White is also the color of purity which for sure these women were not but they all seem to lack substance and character. Even their conversations were so wispy. I wonder if Fitzgerald was influenced by the previous Victorian age? The daisy in Victorian literature stood for innocence, while the myrtle denoted love. Queen Victoria tucked a bit of myrtle in her bridal bouquet to show constancy in affection and duty.

I guess the word boredom comes to mind. Nothing was exciting, they lived only for themselves, going from party to party just to fill in the hours. Nothing seemed to stimulate anyone. They didn't "do" anything. There was no inner drive or motivation.

One could see the "Jewish" element present. Just as in The House of Mirth, the Jewish character was a "man of wealth but no morals" who was looked down upon and never admitted into their social class or invited to their parties. The Jews seemed to be the lower element in the books of this time. The anti Semite way of thinking that we often think was prevalent in Europe was glaringly here in the US as well.

I often wonder if seeing the movie effects the way you view the book. Do the actors and actresses portraying these characters make you feel differently? Does the picture of them effect the way you look at a particular character?

I also found that I didn't like any of the characters and found the usage of Gatsby's constant "old sport" phrase annoying and trite.

I loved some of the statements that were made in the book. ....life is more successfully looked at from a single paned window. That to me is very profound.

Unfortunately I've been busier than intended, but today I'm having a lazy day so I should be able to catch up. I'm at chapter 4 now.

The narrator is an interesting guy... I like the way he says things. Like on pg 43 of my book, he's talking to the two girls in yellow and they're telling at which party they met Jordan at...

She turned to her companion: "Wasn't it for you, Lucille?"
It was for Lucille, too.

For some reason the phrasing there just struck me as funny.

YAY GATSBY! This was my FAVORITE read of anything I read in high school and I've picked it up again at least 3 times since I've been in college. I also discovered one of my suitemates freshman year was also in love with this book. No wonder we are still best friends! :)
Hope everyone loves this as much as I do!