Book Nook Cafe discussion

It has been a long time since we've read a Pulitzer play together. Since Rabbit Hole is coming out as a movie, I thought maybe there would be interest in reading and discussing. The only reason I suggest the beginning of March is because I'll be gone in the middle of February,and people may need time to locate the text.

Here's the link to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_Hole

Rabbit Hole

Count me in, Sherry ! Thank you for suggesting it. :)

I wasn't aware it was a play, so would like to join in. My three libraries do not have a copy, however, so i'll need the time. Btw, David Lindsay-Abaire is listed in my dad's library as screenwriter for both Shrek and Robots. Quite a contrast to the one we intend to read. Thanks for the suggestion, Sherry.

deborah

March 2011 Group Play Discussion


What: Group Play Read

Play: Rabbit Hole

Author: David Lindsay-Abaire

When: The discussion will begin March 1, 2011

Where: The discussion will be held in this thread.

Spoiler Etiquette: The play is only a little over 100 pages so I think we can dispense with spoiler alerts.

Book Details: An intensely emotional examination of grief, laced with wit, insightfulness, compassion and searing honesty . . . an uncommonly affecting and absorbing play."-Variety

"The sad, sweet release of Rabbit Hole lies precisely in the access it allows to the pain of others. . . . This anatomy of grief [taps] a reservoir of feelings common to anyone who has experienced the vacuum left by a death in the family."-The New York Times

A story of loss, heartbreak, and forgiveness-told through daily moments and emotional hurdles-as a family moves on after the accidental death of their four-year-old. With a critically acclaimed Broadway premiere, featuring Cynthia Nixon and Tyne Daly, Rabbit Hole has been hailed as an artistic breakthrough for the highly regarded David Lindsay-Abaire. A drama of what comes after tragedy, it captures "the awkwardness and pain of thinking people faced with an unthinkable situation-and eventually, their capacity for survival" (USA Today).

Literary awards: Pulitzer Prize for Drama (2007)


Book Details: Paperback, 112 pages

About the author: David Lindsay-Abaire is the author of the highly successful Fuddy Meers, which premiered in New York in 1999. He has signed a two-picture deal with Miramax Films, and is currently developing a television show for Conan O'Brien's production company and finishing his screen adaptation of Fuddy Meers. He is a member of New Dramatists, the Dramatists Guild, and the WGA.

Discussion Questions

These discussion questions contain SPOILERS.

Click on the link for the questions AFTER you read the play.


(view spoiler)[
~What is the significance of the title ?

~What is the metaphor of the rabbit hole ?

~What has changed for each character in the play ?

~How has Danny's death changed each character ?

~How has Danny's death changed the relationship between characters ?

~Becca and Howie are struggling with their relationship.
What challenges do they face staying together?

~What is the significance of the title ?

~What is the metaphor of the rabbit hole ?

~What has changed for each character in the play ?

~How has Danny's death changed each character ?

~How has Danny's death changed the relationship between characters ?

~Becca and Howie are struggling with their relationship.
What challenges do they face staying together?

Compare Becca's grief for Danny to Nat's grief for her son, Arthur. How did each lose her son ? How is their grief similar ? How is it different ?


Referring to the "Five Stages of Grief" where is each character in the grieving process? What is different about each character's way of coping with his sadness?

How will each character go on with his or her life? Speculate what you think each character will be like in 5 or 10 years? How will time affect the characters and their longing for Danny ? (hide spoiler)]

The 5 Stages of Grief - Elizabeth Kubler-Ross


1- Denial
2- Anger
3- Bargaining
4- Depression
5- Acceptance

On Death and Dying~~Elisabeth Kübler-Ross

Wiki link for the 5 stages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCb...

My library ordered the play and notified me that it arrived, so I plan to read it next week.

The two copies my library has are out and not due back until the 3rd. Then it has to ship to my local branch.

Also I just got a note from Deb. She is feeling a bit under the weather, so I don't know when or if she will be able to participate.

We would love for a few more of you to join us in this very short read.

Well rats! I had our library order the play and it came in in January, but when I went to check it out today it was already out. I requested it - hope it comes in time.

My local library doesn't have this play. Does anyone know anywhere one can get a copy online??

Sorry, I don't Amy. Do you have an on-line store that is the equivalent to Amazon in Australia ?

Do you have any on-line stores that sell used books ?

Ladies, I took a look at the plot, and this is definitely not one I would want to read. I was amazed that they made a movie of it. I hope those of you who read it will enjoy it. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything........sorry.
Donna

No problem Donna. The topic is dark, as are the topics of many of the Pulitzer winning plays. The nice thing is that of the "dark" titles we have already read and talked about, all were readable in a single sitting (or two), and all had plenty to discuss. Some of my favorite discussions here have been about contemporary Pulitzer winning drama. I hoping that whoever checked out the copy I had our library order will return in soon. I am also looking forward to seeing the movie after I get a chance to read the script.

Alias Reader wrote: "Sorry, I don't Amy. Do you have an on-line store that is the equivalent to Amazon in Australia ?

Do you have any on-line stores that sell used books ?"

I have found it online at a few book stores I frequent. I will have to decide if I can buy it or not. :)

There are two people ahead of me at the library. I will get the book in March, I'm just not sure when.

I found this play online for only $14.00 and no shipping cost, so I am happy with that. I probably won't recieve it until Mid March. Lucky it is only a small read :)

:) Glad to hear you will be joining us, Amy !

I read Rabbit Hole this afternoon, and probably need a little time to process it, especially since today I spent the morning with a long-time teaching friend whose 30-year-old son, also named Danny, died last week. I haven't seen the film yet, but couldn't get Nicole Kidman's face out of my mind as I read.

First of all, Sherry, i am sorry for the loss of your friend's son. I cannot imagine what that would be like, regardless of the age of the child. Heck, i am still wrapping my mind around the death of my mother 25 years ago.

Sadly i will not be joining in this group reading & discussion. Too many issues have arisen for me to tackle tracing down a copy since our libraries don't have one. (Btw, i did find a book with a several-paged synopsis of the play. What's that about? Maybe something for those who make decisions about what plays to produce for local theaters.) ANYway, i will not be joining in this month.

deborah

Unfortunately, Sherry and her friend are living this play. I am sorry to hear that. The author provides a metaphor that may be of comfort.

I've read it. I looked at the questions and I don't think I read it very 'detailed', because I don't really have answers to some of the questions that Alias Reader posted. I will probably re-read (at least parts of it).

I'm next in line at the library for the book. It looks like the first copy is due back on the 8th.
If the person returns it on time, it then needs to be shipped to my branch library.

So I will be reading it this month, just not sure when.

Sherry, so sorry to hear about your friend's son. I am sure it is a great comfort for her to have you there for her in her time of need.

For those that have completed the play, I posted a 'mixed review' that takes a generalized perspective of the book. Here is the link:
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I will probably watch the movie at some point, but I am not very eager to watch it. That 'kind of' sums up my feelings about the play.

Is the movie already out in the theater or DVD? I thought it was a new movie.

Rabbit Hole is new and it will not be released on DVD until April. I'll hold off reading Mad Dog's review until we have had time to discuss the play together here. I'll re-read once several of the rest of you have had a chance to read.

Sherry, sorry to hear about your friends lost! That is very sad news.

The copy I ordered online is due to arrive mid next week. So it shouldn't take to long to read :)

I finished this play last night.

***POSSIBLE SPOILERS***

I read Mad Dog's review and think he has summed the play up quite well. I think this is the type of play that would be much better if you watched it rather than read it. It didn't really move me much to be honest and I think this had a lot to do with the stilted dialogue and how everyone's emotions were bottled up. This play certainly raises some questions about grief and how families deal with it. I was expecting something rawer. Which is more plausible for a play written directly after the son's death. This one is 8 months to a year later. This is really an examination of how people continue with their lives after a death and in this respect it is suppose to be stilted and withdrawn. Ultimately I think the reading of this play was ruined for me by my own expectations before I picked it up.

I still gave it 3 stars as I enjoyed how this play allowed you to peak through the cracks and see the emotions that are hidden there. Interestingly I found I responded the most to the character of Jason.

Amy, can you give an example of dialog that you think is stilted? I read the play last week, so will need to re-read to be specific when I comment further.

I do remember reading in the notes at the end that the playwright said that while the play is sad, it shouldn't be played sentimentally. I welcome that, since grieving is hard enough work, without dealing with maudlin scenes intended to wring out extra emotion. When I revisit the play I'll keep your comments in mind.

I'd give a specific example of 'stilted' dialog, but my copy is back at the library. But I do recall the inter-family dialogues being mostly nice, neat, and staccato (even if they were not talking about 'nice, neat' subjects). There were lots of short statements being volleyed back and forth. That doesn't seem natural to me. That may be natural for some families. My families tends to have a lot of talking over each other, monologues, interruptions, silences, etc. Especially when the conversation is over stressful subjects. Maybe I am just incorrectly transferring my own experience to the book.

I am still waiting on the book.
There are 2 copies. One was due back on the 8th and the other is sitting on the hold shelf. It can sit there for 10 business days and then a person can have it for 3 weeks. So I don't hold out hope for that copy. I can only hope the overdue copy is returned. :(

I just saw they have a few copies of an old edition. They are all out, and not due back for awhile. I put a hold on that edition also.

Sherry (sethurner) wrote: but couldn't get Nicole Kidman's face out of my mind as I read.
---------------

I pictured Becca as Cynthia Nixon as she did the stage performance.

I saw Nixon in a play last year (not Rabbit Hole) and she was excellent.

I am going to not use the spoiler tag. I think whoever is going to read the play has done so.

So if you don't want to read spoilers, don't read the rest of this thread.


1- ~What is the significance of the title ?

There is the obvious part in Jason's essay, and the fact that one minute there son is there and the next not. I never read Alice in Wonderland. So I am not sure if there is something more there. I also don't know the rabbit book that they were talking about in the play. If it is a real book, maybe there is some connection there.

My guess is we would like to believe that our loved ones don't die. Though I don't think an alternative universe is exactly that. I think he was saying it was more of a Dopplinger.

~What is the metaphor of the rabbit hole ?

Sudden loss.

~How has Danny's death changed the relationship between characters ?

It has obviously put a major strain on Becca and Howie. It was sort of ambiguous if Howie was having an affair. I think he was and that is why he gave up the group.

Compare Becca's grief for Danny to Nat's grief for her son, Arthur. How did each lose her son ? How is their grief similar ? How is it different ?
----------------

I would think a loss of a child, no matter the age, is one of the most painful things a parent can deal with.

I sort of felt sorry for Nat, as she almost wasn't allowed to mention Arthur. She had to keep that all bottled up inside of her.

Did you think she erased the tape of Danny on purpose?
I do. As she was listening at the top of the stairs when he was playing it.

If so, that was very spiteful.

Alias Reader wrote: "Did you think she erased the tape of Danny on purpose?
I do. As she was listening at the top of the stairs when he was playing it.

If so, that was very spiteful."

I think she definately erased the tape on purpose. I also thought it was a spiteful thing to do but I felt more pity towards her then anger.

Referring to the "Five Stages of Grief" where is each character in the grieving process? What is different about each character's way of coping with his sadness?

------------

I think Becca may be starting the acceptance phase.

Becca is letting the clothes be boxed up. And she is reconsidering selling the house. She also agrees to talk with Jason. She also agrees to have the dog come home again.

Howie by stopping the affair (if he did indeed have one)is beginning to let go of the anger towards Becca. But he doesn't want to see Jason. He still needs the dog, house and video. So maybe he is still in the depression stage. But since Becca didn't want to be intimate with him, I think that is separating them also. She is pushing him away emotionally and physically.

Though I think things like this are never black & white. One could probably be in a few stages at the same time. I don't know what Ms. Kübler-Ross says about that.

As to the dialog being "stilted". I thought it was spot on. When you are in this much pain you can barely get a single word out because your heart is breaking, never mind full eloquent sentences.

It was very much written like a play. It will be interesting to see if they change that and flesh out the dialog to fit what one is more accustomed to when seeing a movie.

I enjoyed reading the play and I look very much forward to seeing it on DVD.
I gave the play 3/5 stars. However, I don't know how fair that is. It maybe should be a 4 as it really needs to be performed to really appreciate its full potential. It's like rating a painting after reading about it but not actually viewing the work of art.

Mad dog, in your review you mention not seeing a big range of emotions.

When the play begins it is almost 8 months since the accident, so I think they have passed through the stages where you would have seen a lot of the emotions were expecting. That's just my thought.

I also think it is important to take into account the author's note at the end of the play. He specifically didn't want the play to be maudlin. The razor sharp dialog fits well with that goal.

I'm glad to see you finished, Alias. Today is crazy busy, but I think I can re-read the play tomorrow and discuss in more detail.

Alias Reader wrote: "Though I think things like this are never black & white. One could probably be in a few stages at the same time. I don't know what Ms. Kübler-Ross says about that. ..."

I didn't read the play but read a full synopsis of it, with excerpts. Therefore, i don't feel qualified to comment on it but can on the Kübler-Ross aspect. When she wrote it people began comparing their own emotions to it, which ended up frustrating people because often there were a couple of stages going on simultaneously. Also, people felt the stages had to go "in order" but found they didn't. Even bargaining, which seems as though it would be finite.

deb

Madrano wrote: "Alias Reader wrote: "Though I think things like this are never black & white. One could probably be in a few stages at the same time. I don't know what Ms. Kübler-Ross says about that. ..."
I didn..."
--------------------

Deb, I don't mind you commenting at all. I am sure reading the synopsis and such you have a good feel for the topics at hand. And it's not like there is a lot of discussion that you would be interrupting.

Thanks for explaining Kubler-Ross. I suspected as much.

There are spoilers here - beware.


I took some time this afternoon a revisited Rabbit Hole. For me a second reading usually helps me understand the script better, and also like it more. This time it helped me understand why Becca was treating people the way she was - short with Izzy and her mother, impatient with the way Howie wanted to keep things the same as they were before Danny died. The two parents both were grieving, but in very different ways. She wanted to put away the things that made her remember the pain associated with Danny's death. He wanted to have Danny's paintings and photos up to see, wanted to watch the last video of the child over and over. Remembering made him feel safe and comforted, and it was like a knife in her heart. What was ironic - at least for a while - was that Becca didn't want to be told how to feel or act by anyone - not her mother who had at least some idea of what it is like to lose a child, not her husband with his hints they should "try again" and not the members of the support group who leaned on a god Becca had ceased to believe in. Yet she was pressuring Howie into selling the house he loved, getting rid of the dog he also loved. It seemed to me that by the end both she and Howie were beginning to accept each others' ways of mourning and coping, and learning to compromise a bit. Baby steps - so to speak - in the right direction.

It seemed to me that by the end both she and Howie were beginning to accept each others' ways of mourning and coping, and learning to compromise a bit. Sherry, I didn't really think of it that way, but now I can see it. I think that your summary is very helpful to me.

I recently saw the Rabbit Hole movie. I really liked it. It helped bring the play alive for me. Lindsay-Abaire wrote the movie screenplay too, and he made some changes and additions that I really liked. For me, the teenager (Jason) is far and away the star of the movie. It is an amazing performance from an actor (Miles Teller) in his first movie. And I 'felt' the 'chemistry' between Kidman and him.

After seeing the movie Blue Valentine, I am going to struggle not to be critical of any other marriage movie or book. So it is hard for me to appreciate Rabbit Hole for what it is. Blue Valentine takes 'marriage entertainment' to another level of rawness and realness.

I'm looking forward to seeing Rabbit Hole, even with the dark subject matter. I am looking forward to seeing the actor who plays Jason. His character sort of comes out of the blue, and I think he allows Becca to forgive, and in a strange way to imagine herself with a son. His story, about the alternate universes where dopplegangers play out people's stories different ways gave her an opportunity to imagine a world where her family stays intact, and she is grateful to the boy for that.

A tad late but ........


Originally I did not want to participate . The subject matter was a little…… strong for me. I’m a softie and I cry at the drop of a hat . Since I have to check the book out at the library I was afraid I’d have to buy it since they would not take it back due to the water damage . : ) It’s a topic that no parent wants to think about. At some point I must have changed my mind for I received a call from the library that it was in ( I don’t remember placing it on hold).
I liked the story, I think it was well written, I did not feel any strong emotions so I was able to finish it ok.

I think the title of ‘Rabbit Hole’ refers to the characters dropping down through a ‘rabbit hole’ as with Alice and ending up in a world were things do not make sense. Life is fine
and dandy and then one day everything Is turned upside down.

The death of Danny affected every character differently, For Nat it brought back memories of Arthur and her experience. For Becca it brought sadness, loss and anger.
For Howie it also brought sadness and loss, and although it was not said directly I think he did have an affair with the woman from the group. For him it would have been an escape from the situation and maybe with the woman he found the understanding that I think he felt he was not getting from Becca. I found Izzy to be a bit selfish and self absorbed. The grandmother Mom and Dad are still grieving to some extent, I felt she had already dealt with it and gone forward. Not that it would not be ok, I just felt her a little disconnected with the whole thing. Maybe that was her way to cope with it.

I felt Becca did not want to go to the group because she felt anger towards God. As in how could there be one that would let this happen, or that she was not at the stage yet to accept the fact that bad things happen and you can not control them.

In reference to Arthur’s death and Danny’s death it was different. Arthur was a drug addict, although his death being a surprise one would at least have a little idea one day something like that would have happened. He also he was somewhat older, not as young as Danny when he passed. Danny’s death to me was more shocking because it was more unexpected, a little boy full of life that was taken from one moment to another.

Howie and Becca were grieving differently and I think towards the end of the play is when they finally came to terms with that or they realized that they were grieving differently.

I think everything else was pretty much covered on this. : )

I guess if I come across it I would like to the see the movie.

I enjoyed your post very much, Jorge. I also agree with everything you said. :)

It's an interesting play, but in an odd way, there doesn't seem much to say about it. I read it a few weeks ago and already it's fading in my memory. I think if I saw the play or movie it would have had more impact on me.

A friend of mine just saw the movie and said it was very good.

We saw the film last night & thought it was well done. Jason was well portrayed without being what one might expect. And i liked the way the movie opted to portray Becca observing other children without stating the fact she felt connected to each, that each seemed to be her children, so to speak. Even Jason, which was remarkable.

OR maybe i read into Becca's scenes observing other children?

deb