O, For Pete's Sake discussion

NOTE: Finish the book before you comment as you will need the entire story arch of the characters.

I cannot stop chewing on this idea, so I thought it'd throw it out for discussion. Usually, I research an author AFTER reading their work. For some reason, I researched Wilde BEFORE. I wish I hadn't as I think it has prejudiced me regarding his book.

Nonetheless, there is a quote from Wilde that I thought would make for excellent discussion:

From wikipedia.org, RE: The Picture of Dorian Gray: "In a letter, Wilde said the main characters were reflections of himself: "Basil Hallward is what I think I am: Lord Henry is what the world thinks me: Dorian is what I would like to be—in other ages, perhaps".

What does this say about Wilde? Are we, as readers, finding ourselves in Wilde's characters? Who and Why? or Why not?

Great question. I'm almost done, so I'm not commenting on this yet.

However, I will say that I am reading Wilde's _De Profundis_ along with _The Picture of Dorian Gray_. _De Profundis_ was written later in Wilde's life (from prison) after some of the beliefs expressed in TPODG had manifest themselves fully in his life.

It's SO cool to see the contrast. So, once you girls are done with TPODG, that's another fascinating read. It's short, because it was a letter written to a friend.

Sounds great, Becca.

I will check "De Profundis" out after I am done with TPODG if i can stand Wilde any longer... though it sounds like he may have gained some wisdom by then. For others who are interested, I located "De Profundis" on GoogleBooks. You can read online for free. As the file is 206 pages (i think that includes commentary) I think you may be able to read the entire work online:

http://www.archive.org/stream/deprofu...

Oh man, I've fallen in love with the poor guy, even though I disagree with more than half of what he says. In Profundis, he is still off base, but he is humbled a little as he's feeling his way around in the dark. Watching that brings out the Mom in me, I guess. I just want to take care of him somehow!

That's an interesting comment from Wilde, and can make you look at him a bit differently.

Though he is not the most likable character in the literary world, I can't help but me see myself (sans Christ) in Dorian Gray. He listens to others' counsel, even when it is unwise. He makes pleasure his chief aim in life rather than serving others. He knowingly leads others to ruin and shame. He murders those who bring him pain. In a way, we all have a portrait of ourselves, bearing the burden of our sins. It is only through the blood of Christ that it can be washed clean. Only if we die to self and let Him rule can our soul be unstained.

After thinking about it, I can really see a lot of truth in Wilde's Statement. He thinks that he is Basil, someone who allows beauty and art to influence him without really corrupting him. The Victorian world saw him as Lord Henry, someone who spoke in riddles and rhymes that they could not understand. And Dorian is who he would be "in a different age", i.e. outside the Victorian age. Though many people see TPODG as a portrait of corruption, or a case for homosexuality, I see it mainly as a treatise against the morals and standards of the Victorian era.

I glimpsed through the first couple pages of Profundis, and I'll definitely be finishing it. It will be neat to see how the effects of his beliefs changed Wilde's point of view (if at all).

Good thoughts, Ashley. Thank you for them!

In Profunduis, he plays around with the idea of Jesus, but he doesn't understand Christ clearly. It seems he uses him more as an artistic icon than a Savior, though three are moments when he is "almost" to truth. I think that is what grieves me so much. I really wish someone had been there to just clarify what could have saved him from himself.

I found myself wondering if Wilde really believed the philosophy that he was espousing through Lord Henry, and that Dorian picked up so very astutely. I got the impression that he did, at least in part, believe in the sensation trumping morality that Henry touts. However, I also got the impression that Wilde knows that it leads only to destruction. I felt also that he didn't really have anything to stand up against this worldview. The only [main] character in the book who didn't agree with it, Basil, didn't have anything to stand up against it. He simply hoped that Dorian's "good character" would be enough to stand up against Henry's words and wiles. Obviously, it wasn't, but even at the end of his life, Hallward still had hope that Dorian's better side would win out.

All this is, of course, written from my own, Christian perspective. I do feel, however, that without anything to stand on but "strength of character," I (and many others) would quite possibly follow Dorian's path. The arc of my corruption might have been less spectacular, but no less damning. For me, this book really illustrated why Jesus is so very necessary to this broken world and these broken minds in which we live.

Hey ladies. regarding Wilde's theology, check my review out as the introduction that came with the Barnes & Noble edition (which was excellent) actually delved into his religious beliefs quite a bit.

Becca wrote: "Oh man, I've fallen in love with the poor guy, even though I disagree with more than half of what he says. In Profundis, he is still off base, but he is humbled a little as he's feeling his way aro..."

By the way, by this I meant that I had compassion for Wilde, not Dorian. :)