Movies We've Just Watched discussion

So far my impression of this group is that it's mainly centered around Hollywood entertainment movies. Does anyone here check out documentaries? In Pittsburgh, at a place called Pittsburgh Filmmakers, there's a mnthly "Documentary Salon" where a group of us watch & discuss, yes, documentaries.

This wk, it was "Street Fight" - about the Newark, NJ, mayoral race between then-Mayor Sharpe James & his new competition Cory Booker (the current Newark mayor). Now, I'm a filmmaker & I make experimental documentaries, & I'm always wary of movies that purport to tell the truth b/c it's so easy to twist anything thru editing & camera angles & whatnot.

"Street Fight" had the appearance of being almost as low-budget as something I'd make (but I'm sure it wasn't anywhere close!) - partially just b/c of the hand-held video-cam look. I was completely engrossed in it - it was THRILLING. & I believed it.

I believed that Sharpe James was an 'old-school' 'machine politics' type guy - someone who controlled the police & used government services to his own extreme financial gain, etc, etc.. In other words, politics as usual. & I believed that Cory Booker might make a positive social change, that he might not abuse power in the way that James is shown doing. I'm glad Booker's the mayor now.

Since the movie was made, James has been found guilty of using his power to sell city property to his mistress so that she, in turn cd resell it for fantastic profits. Such things utterly disgust me & I'm glad James got busted. But, let's face it, it's also political business as usual.

Now maybe this movie's "the whole truth & nothing but the truth", as the courtroom wd have it. But I always have to wonder. We're shown a shot of firemen removing Booker's campaign signs & we're told that this was being done during the election under James' orders. & I'm willing to believe that the doc-maker Marshall Curry is telling us the truth here & that that's what happened.

HOWEVER, I don't really have any basis for believing that. I don't KNOW it's true just from watching the movie. It's just a scene. It cd've been shot after the election for all I know. & I think it's the viewer's duty to always give a critical reading of documentaries - esp ones that have political content that might influence one's voting, eg.

Last nite, I watched a documentary about Ralph Nader called "An Unreasonable Man". I loved it, I admire Nader, I've always admired Nader.. but I still think every documentary (every EVERYTHING actually) shd get a critical reading. Even the BEST documentary is incapable of telling the "whole truth". I don't personally believe it's possible.

Nader's critics are shown accusing him of ruining the Democrat's chances of winning the 2000 & 2004 elections by luring away potential Democratic voters. One critic accuses him of being responsible for a whole host of evil results. & I find this critic so idiotic that if Nader were to run for president again I'd vote for him. But, then, I'm sure that's the reaction that the doc-makers, Henriette Mantel & Steve Skrovan, want me to have.

I agree w/ Nader that there's very little difference between Republicans & Democrats. I agree that this country wd be much better off if we finally got out of the illusory 2-party system. But, hell, I voted for Kerry in the last election as a desperate measure to try to get rid of Bush, as a desperate measure to end a regime that I feel has run uninterupted from Reagan on. & I agree w/ Michael Moore that Clinton was the best Republican president we ever had. [sic:]

In short, I believe that Nader's brilliant & well-intentioned. If he's a megalomaniac, as some of his critics accuse, then at least he's an intelligent one - wch is more than I'd ever say about any of the other megalomaniacs who've actually made it to the presidency.

At any rate, from a critical reading perspective, this is a fairly well-balanced documentary. Or, at least, so it seems. Critics of Nader are given substantial time to express themselves & I was shown that Pat Buchanan seems to have some admiration for Nader - wch surprised me. But, then, I'd check out an anti-Nader documentary too - just to try to see him from a less positive perspective. In other words, even though I have great admiration for Nader, I think that in order for a person to have a well-rounded opinion about any person or subject, one shd examine a variety of perspectives.

I will probably get shot here, but I really like to watch Michael Moore's movies. There are parts of it that makes me mad, parts that I go uh-huh, etc. I think he is very talented regardless of agreeing with his philosophies. I think any movie that makes me think is a great one.

Encounters at the End of the World (Herzog)

The Wonderful and Frightening World of Mark E. Smith (about The Fall)

Game Over: Kasparov and the Machine (I enjoyed this quite a bit)

The Corporation is pretty good, too.

Why We Fight

Who Killed the Electric Car?

My Big Breasts and Me.

In the Shadow of the Moon

Supersize Me (although this one almost broke up my marriage)

One of the main reasons that I went with NetFlix so long ago was their wide selection of documentaries.

For those of you who use NetFlix, I watch most of my documentaries from them via my Instant Queue on there. The selection is getting wider and wider for the streaming downloads on NetFlix. I'm on the plan where I only get 3 DVDs at a time, but I can have unlimited Instant Queue availability. I went to Radio Shack and bought a couple of cables so I can plug my laptop into my TV and watch it on my big screen. I see no need yet to buy the box they are hawking for something like $99.

However, I will have to say that the documentaries I watch are not of the political bent.

I have to tell you that I bought the Raku (the box you refer to) and I am loving it! The ease of instant to TV is great and the quality of the DVD watching is just amazing. It is a great investment especially if you like foreign, older movies and documentaries. I also like watching TV series I neve normally watch during the year (no commercials and no waiting from week to week) is a real plus.

I liked Born into Brothels, The King of Kong- A fistful of quarters, Crazy Love, Murderball to name a few. Lake of Fire was very difficult to watch.

It plays like a movie with the bad guy, underdog and the funny side characters.

What is the G4 channel?

G4 is the video game channel that I wish I had. It also has Ninja Warrior which is awesome! I must seem like such a 10 year old. Ninjas and video games...awesome!

Some of the ones I like -

Crumb
Capturing the Friedmans
Grizzly Man
Crazy Love
Walmart: The High Cost of Low Prices
The Corporation (I only drink organic milk because of this one)
Tarnation
In the Realms of the Unreal

That's all I can think of right now. When I was very young, the word "documentary" conjured up boredom, like sitting through some weird film in seventh grade on frog biology or something. But now I find documentaries are often some of the best films out there.

If the name Ken Burns appears on a documentary, I will watch it. His Jazz series is my favorite of his works.

I will second Born into Brothels. Beautifully told, but also disturbing.

Along those same lines . . . this is not a documentary, but I saw Rabbit-Proof Fence which is a movie based on a true story. The "behind-the-scenes" documentary-ish feature that accompanies it is more powerful than the movie itself, in my opinion.

I also liked My kid could paint this. Jackie, I will have to add Rabbit-proof Fence to my list.

Have to add Grey Gardens - very strange ladies, but they seem happy...

I loved Grey Gardens !!! My neice had a "Grey Garden's" birthday party, we all dress like Big or Little Edie. I know it has been a Broadway Show and have read it will be made into movie (with Drew Barrymore?)

My absolute favorite is Paris Is Burning Fierce, fab and a little sad. The Black and Latino gay subculture of early 80s NY is so fascinating to watch. I also remember meeting Willie Ninja once and was all fan girly. I usually recommend it to people who think Madonna invented Vogueing.

Ah, yes.. "Rabbit-Proof Fence".. My friend etta cetera & I went to Australia for 3 mnths in 2000 where we made a partially documentary movie called "Don't Walk Backwards" that's 8:24:43 long - my longest movie - it's never been screened!

Anyway, I learned that aboriginals were legally classified under "flora & fauna" until 1968! The whole "Stolen Generation" thing that R-P F was about was still wreaking havoc. For those who don't understand the reference, some of the Christian whites who colonized Aus broke Aboriginal families apart & took the children away from their parents to 'civilize' them - never allowing them to see their paraents again. Incredibly arrogant. There're still many, many people alive who were victimized by this.

Some time around when etta & I were there, the leader of the Aus government (a 'liberal' named John Howard) was asked to apologize for the government's role in the Stolen Generation. He refused & something like 1.9 million people protested. 1/10th of the Australian population.

There's a great made-for-Aus-tv short called "Babaquaria" that reverses the roles & has aboriginals showing up in boats & finding white suburbanites barbecueing. They procede to immediately misunderstand the language, dubbing the area where the barbecueing's happening "Babaquaria", & to do to the whites exactly what the whites actually did to the aboriginals. It's comic but it gets across the point very well indeed. Highly recommended!

Last night I checked out "you think you really know me - the gary wilson story". Is anyone here familiar w/ Gary Wilson's 1977 LP? I probably 1st heard it around the time it came out when my friend Chas Brohawn found a copy. Then I made a specially packaged reel-to-reel of it w/ photocopies of the record cover, etc.. I didn't actually find the record until 1985.

The album, "You Think You Really Know Me" is a remarkably original cross between lounge music, psychedelic, & avant-garde tape music. When I 1st heard it, it seemed like some twisted small-town fantasy music for orgies. The "orgies" part was in there just b/c of a small-town PA hitch-hiking experience I'd had as a teenager - it didn't really have anything to do w/ Wilson. It was fascinating!

His apparent home address was on the back of the record, so I tried writing to him. By then, he'd probably moved to San Diego - maybe his dad didn't forward the letter, dunno, at any rate I never got a response. THEN, much later in the 2000s, Gary emailed me b/c he'd been ego-surfing & found reference to himself on a website of mine.

SO, the movie! I was happy & surprised to find it in a local music store. It's definitely interesting for someone like myself - it was good to see that Wilson's still alive & kicking, great to see stills & films of the early yrs that lead up to the record. I still think the record's great today! The sad thing about it is that Wilson moved to San Diego to try to get bigger record companies interested in him & NO SUCH LUCK. Really too bad.

Here was a guy w/ a talent comparable to Frank Zappa or Captain Beefheart or, perhaps more appropriately, John Trubee & Zoogz Rift, & he never got any economic support. We cd've gotten some really amazing music if he had been supported. Interestingly, he was influenced by classical composer John Cage (whose music I also love) & in the doc someone says, after seeing a revival concert of Wilson's, that it was the best concert since he heard a Penderecki piece live. That's a heavy compliment.

But here's where the documentary rubs me wrong: sure Gary Wilson was great, sure he shd've gotten more support, BUT, the movie makes it seem like he & his friends invented the "underground" or something. Now I'm sure Wilson knows as well as I do that he grew up w/ the 'underground' & that there's an earlier generation of it that influenced him. So, no, he didn't invent it. Furthermore, as far as lack of financial support goes, Gary joins the crowd here. Some of us, like myself (Gary & I are approximately the same age) persevered despite the often extreme hostility & lack of support, Gary seems to've not done so. I wish he had. Maybe he did & I misunderstand.

Now, thanks to his 'revival' w/ the record rerelease & the documentary he has some new material out. I listen forward to it.

There are some really good documentaries out there. HBO has a documentary subheading on their On Demand menu. Some that I've seen there-

Coma (not the movie based on the Robin Cook book)
Capturing the Freidmans
The Ghosts of Abu Ghirab
The Journalist and the Jihadi
Paperclips
A Boy's Life
Cannibals (I think that was the name-it was about Jeffery Dahmer and others)


Other good ones not on HBO

Devil's Playground
Trembling before G_d
Spellbound

Fall From Grace a documentary about that hateful nutjob Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church of God is excellent. It's a firsthand look inside the mind of a cult leader and his family that follow him. It will make you angry, but it's well worth your time to pick up a copy.

Crystal, I think that HBO doc was called Addictions.

I just watched Stanley Kubrick: A Life in Pictures - really great if you're a fan - and if you're not, it's very educational and may make you a fan. I now want to see Lolita...

HBO did a documentary called "Dope Sick Love" but I think they were using herion, not sure sure.

Intervention on A&E just did an in depth look at meth use in Alabama. I have it on the DVR but haven't watched it yet.

Hail Cesar! Thanks for your intelligent insight into this forum. DIG is a wonderful documentary and though I've been a fan of the DANDYS for a few years I didn't know much abour BJM. A few weeks ago my boss asked me about this cool documentary about a drugged-out musician he saw on the Sundance Channel. I knew he was talking about this film: he asked me to make a disc of some of the music for his trip. Now, my boss is the local District Attorney so I joked that he's propable the only DA in the country listening to hip music!

Dig is indeed an interesting doc - tried out the Dandy Warhols after that but it didn't take.

Another interesting rock doc is the Flaming Lips Fearless Freaks - you really don't have to be a fan of the band to enjoy it (although I'm sure it helps). One of the odd perks is watching a band member shoot up heroin (yes, it's true). Thankfully he later, finally decides to give it up - it's a harrowing scene as he describes all the things he's sold over the years to pay for his habit, plus he's a very talented guy - yikes. The doc traces the band's history, etc. Fun stuff (beyond the oblig heroin scene) -

Ah.. the latest documentary I checked out was "Stolen" by Rebecca Dreyfus - released in 2006. It's about the theft on St Patrick's Day in 1990 of multiple paintings from Boston's Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum. The painting most emphasized in this doc being Vermeer's "The Concert". A $5,000,000 reward was offered for the paintings' recovery. 18 yrs later, apparently none of them have been gotten back. The paintings were collectively valued at around $300,000,000.

I knew nothing about this theft & found it fascinating. The doc has an interesting cast of characters - including, most notably, an art theft detective named Harold Smith who's visually highly distinguished b/c of skin cancer developed b/c he was the unfortunate subject of an army medical experiment that attempted to solve his dry skin problem as a young man. Interestingly missing are the security guard (or guards) who was (or were) gagged, blindfolded, & tied up for the robbery.

Various theories are bandied about - perhaps the most credible of wch is that Irish Republicans (IRA, etc) stole the paintings to fund their movement. The thieves are sd to've "impersonated" Boston cops to gain entry into the museum & overpower the guard(s), etc.. What if they really WERE cops? That possibility isn't discussed.

Anyway, the art isn't recovered. I must admit: I love Vermeer's paintings & I'm sad to see one taken out of circulation. It's a beaut. A whole sub-issue of this theft that's inadequately addressed in this documentary (understandably given that it's a huge issue in & of itself) is the relationship of artists & their art to the following posterity & the manipulation of their artworks for financial gain.

There is a reference in "Stolen" to Isabella Stewart Gardner's art aquirerer's repulsion for art dealers - the implication being, I think, that the repulsion's w/ the dealers' lack of appreciation for the work & their greed. That does come across a bit in "Stolen" somewhat exemplified by an antiques dealer / con-man who claims (unconvincingly) to have access to the paintings.

What I always think about, eg, are things like Van Gogh only selling his work to his brother & living in poverty - only to have his paintings bring in huge profits post-mortem. Or Jackson Pollack's "Blue Poles" selling for the largest price at the time for a painting at $8,000,000 in the 1970s (?). Not surprisingly, I'm all in favor of the money going to the artist WHILE THEY'RE ALIVE & I'm disgusted by the profiteering vampires that feast off their corpses.

As for Vermeer? Lardy, the sensitivity to light, the sensitivity to gesture, THE SENSITIVITY. I seriously doubt that Vermeer painted what he did so that future generations cd steal the paintings to make a big fat profit off them. Gee, maybe the sales of the stolen paintings went to buying MUNITIONS. Or HEROIN. Wdn't that be fucking cute.

I don't know how it took so long for me to see this thread!

There are a lot of great films mentioned here, thanks for citing Michael Moore, Meg - don't be afraid to brush up against politics - it's all good.

When Errol Morris isn't getting carried away with his simulations of real events, he can make a nice documentary. The Thin Blue Line was great, as was The Fog of War (I don't think I saw these on anyone's list). His re-enactments made "Standard Operating Procedure" a bit dodgy, but otherwise that was a good doc on Abu Gharib.

Crumb was mentioned by several people, and that was a lovely film. So glad I don't live in any of those guys' minds!

And what about Grey Gardens? Or Hearts and Minds? - an amazing film!

I mean, really tENTATIVELY iNCONVENIENCE, we've talked about quite a few docs on this list, but you're right: it's not the trend.

I'm also a big fan of Tokyo Olympiad.....a doc on the 1964 Olympics in Tokyo (their first time participating in the event)....a great film.

I think Mike mentioned Herzog's new film, Encounters at the End of the World (Henry Kaiser is a good friend, he's in that movie, playing guitar - he introduced me to Herzog at the showing of Nosferatu at SFMOMA - what an honor).

In addition to that film, I like a lot of his documentaries, and, like Goddard, I think Herzog is operating under the assumption that all films are documentaries.

In addition to Encounters, my favorite Herzog docs are:
Lessons in Darkness
Little Dieter Needs to Fly
That film he made about the guy who fell from the plane that had exploded and lived...can't remember the title.

And, of course, the fine documentary on the making of Fitzcaraldo. I think that was Les Blank, right?

And speaking of Les Blank?!?!?!?!? What about Werner Herzog Eats His Shoe? Or any of the great docs that he did on various American musicians and musical styles (he made a great doc on Lightnin' Hopkins, one of my favorite blues guitarists, and also on the subject of Polka....).

Super Size Me was also enjoyable and a nice comment on McD.

I mentioned Shoah in another thread, the Counterfeiters thread....but that's a fine film.

That doc on Hugo Chavez and the US sponsored military coup was great - what the hell was that called????

A good friend worked on When the Mountains Tremble, a fine documentary on the US sponsored war (or should I just come right out and say mass murder) in Nicaragua during the Regan years.

The Corporation (someone mentioned it, I'm sure) made it on my Top 10 films of 2006 (or was it 2005?). What a great idea for a film! They use a test that psychologists use to establish whether or not someone is a dangerous sociopath, and corporate activity fits the bill perfectly.

I'm glad Rob mentioned Jesus Camp, and there's another great one about fundamentalism. It shows how this church uses Halloween to build a "haunted house" and all the rooms are filled with "sins", and at the end of the "journey" they try to recruit you to join their church and accept Christ as your personal saviour. Wow, the phrase "what would Jesus think?" comes to mind. Oh yeah, it's called Devil's Playground, I think someone mentioned it already...sorry!

And there is also a fine doc on the Amish community, and how the children have this rite of passage where they live outside the community when they reach 18. I can't remember what that's called either...my mind is failing me, kidz...

Crystal, I think the film you mean is PARADISE LOST. There's a follow up called, I believe, PARADISE LOST II, that adds all kinds of painful things to the story.

Rob, thanks for clearing up those titles!

Yes, I saw the Kinski film, which was quite a treat. What a strange fellow.

I forgot two other fine docs: Hoop Dreams (one of my favorites) and Uncensored (revealing the lies behind the case of WOMD used as a justification of the second Gulf War).

I've been wanting to watch Lessons in Darkness forever but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Where did you get it from, Phillip?

I purchased that box set of Herzog films and it was included in it. It is available at the video store in my neighborhood. If you lived nearby I could lend it to you.

I watch at least one documentary every few days so I can't begin to list the recent ones I've seen...I'm trying to think of one I've seen that has stood out...

I just saw one called 'Mexico City Emos' where I learned that hate crimes are being committed against emos in Mexico...It seemed like it was racial discrimination by the way it was being portrayed.

Not that I don't feel for the emo kids. They don't annoy me as they do others, because I still associate it with the mid-80s movement I guess, but I'm not necessarily endorsing the subculture either. I feel you should do what you want (sometimes even if it hurts others) but for Heaven's sake...If you are getting knifed on the street, cut your fucking hair! Is your image such a big deal?

I've dyed my hair blue since I was 13 but if people started jumping me about it I'll go platinum blonde.

I haven't heard of that film, Christy, thanks for mentioning it. It's staggering to consider all the intolerance that exists in the world.

I just watched a fine doc on Louise Bourgoise (sp?) I like her work, and she makes a great subject for a doc.....what a character.

I also watched a good doc on Barney Rossett called Obscene; Rossett was the publisher at the Evergreen Review/Grove Press. They published Beckett, Burroughs, and a few other of my heroes, and defended countless books against obscenity charges (Lady Catterley, Tropic of Cancer, Naked Lunch, etc).

Some of my favorites altho' quite diverse are: "Daughter From Danang", "Frost Nixon:Watergate Interviews", "Grey Gardens", "Ram Dass:Fierce Grace", "Regret to Inform".

hey nancy,

i liked daughter from danang and the frost/nixon doc....good stuff.

on a related note to daughter from danang, i recommend a new documentary called betrayal, a film that traces the trials and tribulations of a cambodian family from the start of the vietnam war through their exodus to america....great film.

i also just watched a film called "my flesh and blood", a film about a woman in northern california who has adopted 13 children who are all suffering from various extreme disabilities....a seriously humbling film. the kind of film you watch and think, "ok, i have nothing to complain about in this life..."

I just added "The Betrayal" to my queue. Thanks for the recommendation. I just saw a Vietnamese film that I just can't remember the name of. It's about the boat people escaping to Orange Co. CA and the adjustments they had to make. I got it on Netflix. Anyone know the name of it?

nice - i think you'll appreciate it (betrayal). that film you're talking about doesn't sound familiar...

It wasn't a documentary. I'll scan my Netflix list and see if I can find it.

oh, i assumed it was a documentary. still don't know it. :)

has anyone seen 'It Might Get Loud'? i hear good things about it.

what's that about?

i mentioned this the other day in movies we just watched, but the new agnes varda documentary (an autobiographical one) is really great. it's called the beaches of agnes...check it out if you like her work.

Phillip wrote: "what's that about?



"It Might Get Loud" is a rock doc - specifically about the influence of the electric guitar. Jimmy Page, the edge (from U2) and Jack White (White Stripes) are featured. that's pretty much all i know.

I watched a fascinating documentary entitled THEREMIN: AN ELECTRONIC ODYSSEY, about Leon Theremin, the inventor of the electronic instrument that bears his name. A wonderful and moving film, with great interviews. Highly recommended!

oh, that's a fun doc. i enjoyed it. i know a few theremin players, have played with a few as well.

Po - Lin. Pieces of memories - documentary about life of Jews in Poland before World War II.

i saw two docs last weekend - as part of a film festival in Guelph ON where i live. the first was called, 'What Would Jesus Buy' that follows Reverand Billy and his Stop Shopping Choir on a tour across the states at Christmas time. he performs an over-the-top evangelistic-style show mocking our new religion - SHOPPING! i suppose those who take religion very seriously, might find his antics offensive. while his presentation is meant to be amusing, his message is serious, and it's aim is very much against our consumeristic society not the church.

the second one i saw was, 'The Strangest Dream' and it told the story of a scientist by the name of Rotblat (i don't remember his first name). he was the only individual to leave The Manhattan Project for moral reasons. he went on to have a significant impact on the Pugwash group of scientists that meet annually to explore ways science can, and should, be used for the betterment of mankind, rather than military uses. Rotblat's work was recognized as he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize a few years ago.

those sound great sooz, thanks for writing about them. the revered billy film sounds great.

i played in the guelph festival a few years ago, but i think we are talking about different festivals...this one was for jazz and new music.

Phillip wrote: "those sound great sooz, thanks for writing about them. the revered billy film sounds great.

i played in the guelph festival a few years ago, but i think we are talking about different festivals......"

yes different festivals. the Guelph Jazz Festival, held in September, is fabulous, and a much bigger event than our film festival. most of those living in Guelph don't even know we have a weekend devoted to film - all documentries by the way.

the Jazz Festival on the other hand is a well-established and well-respected annual event - I look forward to every year. just when you think summer is over and there isn't much happening - voila! there's the Jazz Festival!