The Expanded Universe discussion

Here is the thread I promised all of you! For reference, here is the last comment made on the other thread.

I'm noticing people either love or hate the cartoons. I wasn't too interested in them at first, but I think this season has been generally good. Tarkin was portrayed well, I thought. As long as they keep bringing in the movie characters, it works for me.

Have fun!

Well I liked the Animated Clone Wars; in my opinion they got the Jedi's better than the Movies. Meanwhile I Respect the New CGG series as Beautifully Produced; But sadly for me as an old fan, this series is made for the new generation of kids based on the blasphemous Episode 1-3 Movies. As I said Before, George is Thinking in $$$ and no longer in what he Created, This is analogous to Being a Rebel and then becoming an Agent of the Empire. This is my Personal Opinion and isn't meant to Offend or Criticize My Peers, we all love Star Wars Here. May the Force be with Us all!

I don't know if I would say that it portrays the Jedi better than the movies or not, but it certainly does flesh out the Jedi Order and the individual Jedi quite a bit more. So I guess you're right in that respect.

Does anyone listen to the podcasts on TheForce.net? Don't know if they'll do the Clone Wars Roundtable one over the summer, since the season will be over, but I gues they'll still do the regular SW roundtable.

I didn'teven realize that they had a podcast. Thank you "deleted member"!

Depressing that I haven't gotten on here in so long. . .

The Clone Wars is sort of hit or miss with me. Some were good from season 3. I'm definitely going to watch next season when it starts.

I've watched most of the first season; not much after that. I dunno, it never really grabbed me. I always came away feeling like it was childish, and slightly inferior to the movies. (Well, okay, maybe not inferior to the prequel trilogy. But you get the idea)

I think the series is clearly geared toward the younglings, which is fine. I can appreciate it for what it is.

The thing that continues to bother me is that the Jedi are portrayed as far less powerful than I've come to see them as - Anakin especially. There are plenty of times one of them gets into a situation which could be easily solved by a simple application of telekinesis (Obi-Wan's duel with the commander of Death Watch, for example), but for whatever reasons it's a no-go.

I dealt with the awful canon of "The Clone Wars" for a while, I just tried to separate it from the rest of the SW Universe, but it's starting to get on my nerves. The Mandalorian episodes especially, at times I begin to think that Filoni doesn't pay attention to any continuity at all. -_- The original Clone Wars shorts were decent though.

I got all pumped when I heard TCW was going to have the Nightsisters...then I saw the episodes. They weren't really Nightsisters. Close, but no ugly Force-witches.

And there's the main problem with the Clone Wars, in my opinion. It's close to the Star Wars we all know and love... but it's not the same quality. There's a detail off here, a characterization off there - and while they're not all that much on their own, they start adding up after a while. You'd think the directors would put a little more effort into keeping continuity straight with the rest of the EU - it's that continuity that makes Star Wars so great!

I feel like EU, TCW, and the two trilogies are George's kids, and he plays favorites - but inconsistently.

The "Counterattack"/"Citadel Rescue" pair of episodes were the best of the season for me. You could really see Anakin starting to relate to Tarkin.

Exactly! And in ANH, they can barely stand each other!

Agreed, the detailing failure in continuity really gets on my nerves. I just wish they'd take a look at the previously established canon before making episodes, the Mandalorian trilogy in TCW completely undermined what had been previously set up about Manda'yaim during the clone wars.
Udesii, vode.

I listened to a podcast where the hosts were discussing ANH and if Tarkin knew that Vader was actually Anakin. Most of them had decided that no, Tarkin didn't know.

I thought that was strange, as I'd always figured that Tarkin was aware of all of it.

Y'know, I hadn't thought of that, that's a good point. So Tarkin might not know that the Jedi he was starting to get along with back in the Clone Wars is also this Sith Lord he barely tolerates. But Vader still knows that this Grand Moff he barely tolerates was that captain in the Clone Wars.

@Noah - the suck thing is, TCW-canon actually overrides EU-canon, because of George's direct involvement. Which leads me to this continuity question I've been asking myself over the last few years: "How long does George say the Clone Wars lasted?" Because until TCW came out, we've been working on about 2.5-3 years...now it seems like they were about twice that long.

Yeah, it's immensely annoying, true, but annoying. I think that most of the EU writers are better writers than the TCW ones, which makes it very agitating that TCW canon overrides EU. :/
Udesii, vode.

oh Noah you are so Right; it seems to me too that the EU has better writers, and they seem to care more about the continuity and the essence of the series concept. as I said earlier I think that our honorable G.Lucas turned to the Dark Side (capitalism seems to win over the love of his brainchild) either that or he's being impersonated. I don't want to believe he just got tired of all this.

@Kashi: Nice to see someone agrees with me .:P

In all fairness, with the amount of SW storylines going on, and the amount of licensing needing to be done, I think Lucas is just signing every scrap of paper pushed at him. No, I'd blame Filoni and the rest of the TCW people sooner than I'd blame Lucas.
Udesii, vode.

Noah, your faith in Lucas is admirable - but very likely misplaced. The TCW crew has their share of the blame, but George has never rubber-stamped anything else in the past.

Don't forget, he was the one who ordered the switch in fates between Jacen and Anakin Solo....even though he swears EU isn't canon. Definitely no rubber-stamping there.

That's another way of saying it. I remember when I saw the special features in the prequel trilogy; I mean hey G.Lucas chose the lamest looking Characters from the Ridiculous amount of Great material that the artist presented. I was really disappointed with the prequels so I always get my biggest enjoyment from the EU and the original trilogy. what I would really like is for Lucas to take more seriously the continuity of the EU that fans have accepted and loved.

I think as long as he keeps getting royalties from it, he won't really care one way or the other ):

Dash wrote: "Noah, your faith in Lucas is admirable - but very likely misplaced. The TCW crew has their share of the blame, but George has never rubber-stamped anything else in the past."

What the Lucas wants, the Lucas gets.

I suppose that part of my view stems from the fact that I've fallen in love with Clone Wars Era, I like the original trilogy better, but most EU stuff I've read has been Clone Wars or before. Besides which, I don't pay much attention to producing and what Lucas is doing, so I'll give you a point there.
Udesii, vode.

I have no problem with the Prequel trilogy or the Clone Wars in general, it adds alot of essential background to the franchise, what I do have a problem with is that several of the things in the prequel era are very childish, especially the phantom menace the newer clone wars animated series.

The original Clone Wars cartoon was interesting, especially when taken from the angle that Matthew Stover (Revenge of the Sith, Clone Wars:Shatterpoint, Shadows of Mindor, NJO: Traitor) went with which is that the whole Clone Wars animated series is just Republic Propaganda, so its all about the Jedi and the GAR doing amazing things, saving the galaxy and kicking seperatist ass, with it being heavily filtered, aka Propaganda.

However the newer Clone Wars was good for awhile and just became horrid, especially when Obi-Wan went to Mandalore... (yes i know, im a Karen Traviss MandoLover) but Mandalore is completely wrong in the series. It's a technological warrior nation of jedi hating intelllecuals who are also badass warriors, not a peaceful nation of jedi loving intellectuals.
It's not supposed to be a barren wasteland that rips of Stephen King with people being put into cities that are surrounded by giant bubbles, it's a small jungle and forest planet that, in terms of building structures, isn't that much more advanced than Tatooine. and lastly, thet don't have a Prime Minister, or even a proper head of state, they have a Mandalore, who is barelly ever on Mandalore to begin with, and for most of the Clone Wars, they didn't even have one of those. Plus they were never part of the Republic, they detested the Republic, and any huge Galactic Government in any form.

Needless to say, i'm not a fan of the new Clone Wars and anything Clone Wars that has been released after the first season.

Yeah, those episodes are horrendous. I haven't even watched them yet, 'cuz I'll get too worked up xD

Hadn't heard the propaganda thing before - I kinda like it =D

Yeah, they sort of jacked Mandalore and Dathomir for their own purposes. But remember, EU isn't canon, so they're completely allowed to overwrite all the printed fiction Karen Traviss ever thought of writing, and presto-change-o, Mandalore is Alderaan.

Then there was the whole thing on Mortis, which was great for the Sam Witwer but not for much of anything else They showed Anakin his entire fate, then made him forget it? Then why show him in the first place?

"Um, 'cause foreshadowing's cool, or something...?"

Yeah, I had a nice ten-minute-long tirade on the StarWars.com message boards when the Mandalore trilogy came out, the simple fact that the only ppl who wore armor were Death Watch got on my nerves, not to mention half the other EU-established things they threw to the akk hounds. I mean, I know I'm somewhat of a Mando-freak, but since when does Keldabe look like Coruscant? The whole Nightsisters thing was pretty absurd too, did they ever explain how Zabrak made it to Dathommir? And since when is Ventress a Nightsister? She's not even Dathomiri!
Udesii, vode

Well the EU in the form of books, video games and comics are canon, just not as "important" as the clone wars tv show and movie, unfortunatley.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#...
- a reference to the importance of each part of media that comes out about star wars.
It's still kinda weird that people think say "Heir to the Empire" by Timothy Zahn is canon but "Republic Commando: Order 66" (godly) by Karen Traviss is fanon.

Ah, Wookieepedia. ;)
Yeah, those are my thoughts too, unfortunately, the producers don't look at the storyline of something that was ravingly popular before they create an offshoot that contradicts it just to pick up some extra $$$.
Udesii, vode.

I think that the problem starts with the fact that the people who make TCW haven't read the books. Therefore, they don't know what Mandalore is like. Either that, or they don't care. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt in this case, though. It's better to plead ignorance than apathy.

P.S. I like the comment about Republic Propoganda. It has always struck me as sounding like a WWII era newsreel, and I have never liked how the Separatists always lose to some grand scheme by Anakin and . . . his padawan. But this makes sense.

That's definitely a great way of looking at the series. I also remind myself - whenever I can bear to watch the show - that Sidious directed both sides of the war, and always intended the Separatists to lose.

So any time the "bad guys" were coming too close to a major victory, only to be thwarted when a Padawan discovers some ridiculous tactical flaw in a Separatist plan...well...

A friend just sent me a link to this webcomic: http://chainsawsuit.com/2011/08/31/st...

Definitely read the blog post beneath - it ties in to what we've been talking about.

almost off-topic. any comments in the blue ray versions???

None from me!

Speaking of TCW, Drew Karpyshyn (who wrote the books about Darths Bane and Revan) was asked if he'd have like to see those two awesomest Sith Lords in the animated series. His reply:

"I’d love to see Bane and Revan make an appearance in other works. I know everyone involved in the Star Wars franchise is respectful of characters they didn’t create, so I don’t have to worry about them being misrepresented."

Clearly, he either didn't catch the Dathomir or Mandalore arcs...or didn't read the original works about those planets and their inhabitants.

Huh. I s'pose it's just barely possible that they're still alive a thousand years later... but that's stretching it a bit. Bane may or may not be a bodysnatcher, and Revan disappeared off the face of the Galaxy (so I s'pose he could have found an immortality MacGuffin).

...but still, the more they add to TCW, the more things they ruin. Leave the Old Republic out of it D:

Old Republic era can hardly be added to TCW and still kept believable. It would seem that they've taken it upon themselves to wreck all the best things about Star Wars. It seems to me that they're toddling around being like "Oh look, a bunch of people like that, let's add that to TCW!" not realizing that the people who love those things are glaring their eyes out at them.
Udesii, vode

Well, they'd have shown up in Ghosts of Mortis, if that was the decision - so they wouldn't have had to actually be alive. I'm also glad it didn't happen, it would have been forced.

I must now leave you all...and go find an immortality MacGuffin.

Did you hear that Lucasfilm got sold to Disney? I wonder how the Star War novels will be affected.

Did anyone else hear that there making another movie thats picks up where episode 6 left off.

http://www.hollywood.com/news/tv/5500...

"The cartoon series is leaving cartoon network and the series is going to be winding down." They are thinking of replacing it with....

I really liked The Clone Wars! :(

Let's wait to grieve for The Clone Wars until we hear something official from the Diz. Besides, I heard that since they already have a lot of work already done on a few episodes of season 6, they might finish them and do a direct-to-DVD thing for them. I want the show to wrap up nicely, too. But when it comes down to it, I'd rather see a fracking awesome set of films and be sad over the show than have Clone Wars continue and the movies are lackluster.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/shake-ups-at...

Well, there we go.

Unfortunately, Becky and I haven't seen anything from seasons four or five, but I am personally really excited to see them--listening to the Forcecast gets me in the mood.

However, I am not broken up at all that Star Wars: Detours is going down. Seth Green is funny, but seeing the previews made me scratch my head and ask myself Is this supposed to be funny? They did a good job with the Robot Chicken parodies. I think they should keep them there.

I did watch the show, but I can't say I loved it. Like the prequel films, I enjoyed it for the actions scenes: space battles and lightsaber duels. But I found the stories consistently childish. I just felt like the characters were inconsistent: is Anakin a wise Jedi teacher the Council trusts absolutely, or the arrogant kid who is frustrated at the council always excluding him?

Overall, I enjoyed the show. I am sad in a way that it is over. But in my mind it always felt like a "alternate, child-friendly" universe separate from the rest of the canon, which in my mind includes the movies, books, comics, etc. Of course, the irony is that TCW is more canon than any of that other stuff (except movies), but I never wanted to treat it that way.

Perhaps asking this in a group dedicated to Star Wars novels is redundant, but how do you guys feel about the ways The Clone Wars conflicted with the EU?

Although I did really like the Clone Wars, I am on the side of the EU. Whenever something from TCW clashed with the EU, TCW always won. Which I find a bit not good.