SSG: Spy/Spec-Ops Group discussion

Action like Mitch Rapp. I would add Hapberg books to the Spy/Spec ops Group. Would like to get the older books in the series on kindle.

that's Hagberg, I have read several, definite to add to your list.

Me too. I have read several of the earlier Hapberg novels. It has been a while.....

I had forgotten about Hagberg and his McGarvey until I saw your recommendation. I read a few about 15 yrs ago and they were really quite good!

Did reviews on the first 9 books. They're like the ancestor of Mitch Rapp and Scott Harvath. Maverick professional killers who suffer from politicians and bureaucrats trying to hinder them. Although they're far more "corny" with a pulp fiction/Ian Fleming vibe, which makes them seem quite a bit dated. I consider them "period pieces" which showcase the best and worst of classic spy fiction tropes and Conventions.

I don't (myself) believe in the concept of 'datedness' unless the story is deliberately misconceived to begin with. Good action writing should be timeless.

Still, these books ought to be added to our shelves.

Feliks wrote: "I don't (myself) believe in the concept of 'datedness' unless the story is deliberately misconceived to begin with. Good action writing should be timeless.

Still, these books ought to be added to ..."

Well the main character, Kirk McGarvey can be summed up as old fashioned in more ways than one. No moral grays in his worldview. Which proves costly for him in the era which the first half of the series is set, where political compromise is at an all time high (series began in 1989 and has continued to this day with 18 entries). It takes 9 books and him destroying a CIA DDO's career for him to be allowed to return from the cold. But as a character, he's special due to being an ancestor to the post-9/11 counter-terrorist thriller protagonist. He's a maverick, has red white and blue pumping through his veins and will do whatever it takes to fight for a worthy cause even if he gets hurt in the process. And he has a loathing for political paper pushers who do not appreciate the need for men like him and try to constrain him. He's was Jack Bauer before Jack Bauer even existed. But there are differences between Kirk McGarvey and characters like Mitch Rapp. A crushing guilt complex, a lot of self-loathing and some less than enlightened views of the Ian Fleming mold, on women, which isn't helped due to the author making almost all the female characters in the McGarvey series (except one very savvy operative who has appeared in book 14 and 18) fulfill the tired, "damsel in distress" trope.

Overall, the series, set during the closing days of the cold war, and still going in the War On Terror era, stands out due to featuring classic spy fiction conventions (and showing how dated they are) while indirectly creating the template which authors such as Vince Flynn would utilize when creating the counter-terrorist sub-genre of spy fiction.

Feliks wrote: "I don't (myself) believe in the concept of 'datedness' unless the story is deliberately misconceived to begin with. Good action writing should be timeless.

Still, these books ought to be added to ..."

A question. In your view, what would be a "deliberately misconceived" story?

Current output. Has a book coming out in 2016 titled "The Fourth Horseman". About a CIA officer turning traitor, allying with Pakistan's ISI and helping them stage a military coup to destroy the civilian government and establish a properly draconian Islamist government.
And the only spanner in the works Langley can throw into his plans is a middle aged hired gun. Mcgarvey.

Question for this thread. What's the optimum age a character can have before the reader starts laughing about how a older hero can overcome, younger, quicker antagonists?
Hagberg confessed that he had to resort to freezing McGarvey's age to keep the series alive. Officially, the man's in his 50's. Without locking down his age, the man would be in his early 70's.

Samuel wrote: "Question for this thread. What's the optimum age a character can have before the reader starts laughing about how a older hero can overcome, younger, quicker antagonists?
Hagberg confessed that he..."

Best solution would be to put McGarvey in charge of some fictional covert paramilitary organization run by the American government, where he can lead/train some younger shooters.

Samuel wrote: "Question for this thread. What's the optimum age a character can have before the reader starts laughing about how a older hero can overcome, younger, quicker antagonists?
Hagberg confessed that he..."

Physical youth and fitness is fine, but experience is as valuable, if not more, in my opinion. In espionnage or assassination work, an old fox should run circles around a young stud, unless hand to hand combat is involved. But then, an old fox should not let himself sucked into a close combat situation, or should use the good old quick draw solution. Also, who attracts most the attention of custom agents or security men on alert, an old geezer with gray hair and a pot belly or a young, fit man?

Michel wrote: "Samuel wrote: "Question for this thread. What's the optimum age a character can have before the reader starts laughing about how a older hero can overcome, younger, quicker antagonists?
Hagberg c..."

You've hit the nail on the head regarding two points. One, you're correct that the men McGarvey go up against underestimate him. He's far more experienced than his opponents as well.
However, he does draw attention due to having did a stint as the DCI. While he's got the skill to keep his distance between his pursuers long enough to reach his targets or kill them all if need be, he's far more overt than covert.

Michel wrote: "Samuel wrote: "Question for this thread. What's the optimum age a character can have before the reader starts laughing about how a older hero can overcome, younger, quicker antagonists?
Hagberg c..."

And regarding confrontations, due to his ego and vindictiveness, which causes him to have a compulsion to engage in confrontations, he has a tendency to try goad his enemies into gunfights, rather than doing the smart, sensible thing and shooting them in the back. The character is a boy scout/knight in shining armor who secretly enjoys the hunt for new monsters to slay.

Got the paperback version of this for holiday reading..
Might review it in 2016.