Beyond Reality discussion

Well, I think we can all agree that our first two Series Discussions have been successful! First we read the Miles Vorkosigan series, one book per month, and more recently we had the pleasure of discussing the Wars of Light and Shadow series with author Janny Wurts! So why stop when we have a good thing going, right?

In this thread, I'd like to get some ideas and feedback about the format of the discussion, as well as start gathering nominations.

FORMAT: I think it's going to depend on which series we end up reading. One book per month worked well for the Vorkosigan books, because they were relatively short and quick reads. Three chapters per week worked well with the Wars of Light and Shadow because those books are much more meaty, in-depth reading material - plus we had (have!) Janny to discuss them in detail with us. If our third series ends up comprised of short-ish, fast-reading books, I'd favor the first format. If we end up reading something that has 1000 page installments, I think we should break it up into smaller chunks. If we somehow get the author to participate again, I think we should involve him or her in the discussion. What do you think? And do you have other suggestions or feedback?

NOMINATIONS --- 1) First of all, let's not pick a series that's already being being discussed in several other places. E.g. as much as I love the Malazan series, I'd hate to take up a year of our time with it, given that it's being dissected in great great detail over at www.tor.com AND it's being discussed in the "Fantasy Book Club Series" (skillfully managed by two of our members here, by the way). I've discussed this with my co-moderator Candiss, and we're not going to veto anything, but we'd really like to discourage (and, I think, will campaign quite vehemently against) anything that's already being covered in other places. Let's do something new instead!

2) Because a series discussion takes up a lot of time and work on the part of the moderators, we're going to do something new with this nomination process. There's still no need to second nominations here, but instead we will need someone (or even several someones) to volunteer as discussion leader. That person would commit to reading the books in the series, according to whatever schedule we all end up deciding on, and posting some topics for discussion as we start each new book or section. This will not take up a lot of your time (aside from reading the books), and it will mean that we have at least one person making sure that there's some discussion about the books. Candiss and I will be here to help out as always - and depending on which series wins, I think one or both of us may actually sign up to manage the discussion for some of the series, but it all depends on which ones. So - if you nominate a series you're excited about, or if you see someone nominate something that you think you'll be reading along with us, please consider volunteering to help with the discussion! If a series doesn't have at least one person to manage the discussion by the end of the nomination period, we won't accept the nomination. But please note: you can nominate something without volunteering to lead the discussion, AND you can volunteer to lead the discussion for something you haven't nominated.

How to nominate a series:

Please provide the following information along with your nomination:

1. Title of series
2. Author
3. Genre (SF or fantasy)
4. Number of books in the series
5. Brief description and/or why you're nominating the series
5. Will you be able to lead the discussion?

Each member may nominate one series, either SF or fantasy. (And by the way, our first series was SF, and the second was fantasy, so on a personal note - I'm kinda hoping we'll swing back to SF for this one, but as always it's up to your nominations and your votes!)

How to volunteer to lead the discussion for a series:

Well, just post a message here! You can volunteer to lead more than one series, because only one will win in the end.

Alrighty, that's about it. Sorry for the long message and more complicated nomination process, but given that each of the last two series kept us busy for close to a year, I think it's worth our time to figure out the details in advance and make sure we start something that works out for everyone!

NOMINATIONS SO FAR:

- The Jenny Casey series, by Elizabeth Bear (nominated by chris, who volunteers)
- The Dresden Files, by Jim Butcher (nominated by maggie, who can possibly lead, and kevin can lead)
- The Saga of Recluce, by L.E. Modesitt Jr. (nominated by jon, jon or stefan can possibly lead, author may participate)
- the Helliconia Trilogy, by Brian Aldiss (nominated by mawgojzeta, who can lead)
- the Company series, by Kage Baker (nominated by phoenixfalls, who can maybe lead or co-lead)
- The Legend of Drizzt, by R.A. Salvatore (nominated by kevin, who can lead)
- the Honor Harrington series, by David Weber (nominated by chris, who can lead)
- Chronicles of the Cheysuli, by Jennifer Roberson (nominated by kerry, kerry and shel can lead)
- the Alliance/Union series by C.J. Cherryh (nominated by Ron. Ron, Sid and Helene can lead)
- the Chanur series by C.J. Cherryh (nominated by Helene. Helene and Ron can lead)
- the Dragaeran Cycle by Steven Brust (nominated by stefan, stefan and richelle can lead)
- Darkover, by Marion Zimmer Bradley (nominated by christine; candiss, christine, chris and Sid can lead)
- Firestar, by Michael Flynn (nominated by Sid, sid and chris can lead)
- Xenogenesis, by Octavia Butler (nominated by candiss, candiss and kerry can lead)
- Pip and Flinx Adventure series, by Alan Dean Foster (nominated by kernos, still needs someone to lead)

How long of a series do we generally look for? I'm assuming something like a trilogy might not be worth the effort? I don't have anything particular in mind at the moment, just curious.

As far as I'm concerned, a trilogy would be fine. We've had long series so far (12 and 8 books, respectively, at the time we discussed them) but I wouldn't mind something shorter. Minimum 3 books sounds good to me. Longer is fine. On the other end of the spectrum, I'd be nervous about starting a super-long series (e.g. the Discworld series stands at almost 40 books now) because it would tie up the group for years.
Also, the series doesn't have to be completed (obviously, based on the first 2 we read).

Is it a requirement that the group has not read any of the books in the series?

It isn't! (It's also not a requirement for our Books of the Month, by the way - as evidenced by several of our recent BotM's.)

(I know it looks like I'm sitting here refreshing this page and responding to every post immediately, but I'm actually working on a review in another window!)

Stefan wrote: "I know it looks like I'm sitting here refreshing this page and responding to every post immediately..."

:D I do find myself actually doing that sometimes, like when BotM noms go up, if I'm working on something else simultaneously. I get caught up in the running conversation!

I can't think of anything I'd like to add to Stefan's comprehensive introductory post. I was going to bring up discussion of minimum/maximum titles in the series, but Random was on the ball. I completely concur with Stefan's thoughts on "trilogy or longer", as trilogies seem to be one of the most common series lengths now, and books in trilogies tend toward meatiness.

is it any fantasy or scifi genre? even urban? I am thinking about my lately obsession with paranormal detectives..there are a couple of good series in that vein...

Well, I'll start.

1. Jenny Casey Series
2. Elizabeth Bear
3. SF
4. 3
5. Because we read Hammered awhile back for this group. It's a short series, it's interesting, it's easy to find (and on a personal and totally selflish note, I'll already have the whole thing, so hopefully, this time I'll make to the end of a series discussion.

6. yes

I thought of something not covered in the original info post, the answer to which will bear directly on whether or not I would be able to volunteer to lead anything directly (as opposed to just helping), and I imagine I can't be the only one who might wish to know:

Any thoughts on when we'd start this series read? July seems unlikely, with the whole voting process still to come. August? September? Or later still?

Tentative thoughts?

1. Dresden Files
2. Jim Butcher
3. Urban Fantasy
4. 13, but they are not long
5. Great paranormal detective series set in modern-day Chicago. HArry Dresden is a wizard trying to fight the good fight, along with an assortment of side-kicks.

6. possibly, but there are better candidates

1. The Saga of Recluce
2. L.E. Modesitt, Jr.

3. Fantasy / Epic Fantasy / backstory Science Fiction

4. Sixteen (16), with the first one recently re-issued in a special 20th anniversary edition.

5. Excerpt from Wikipedia article synopsis: "The 16 books of the series describe the changing, often confrontational, relationship between the genetic descendants of two technologically advanced cultures, representatives of which have been marooned on a sparsely inhabited world and regressed to the level of the existing inhabitants' primitive technology. Themes of gender stereotyping, sexism, ageism, racism, ethics, economics, environmentalism and politics are explored in the course of the series, which examines the world through the eyes of all its protagonists."

6. Perhaps/possibly. I am willing to ask the author to participate as well (unless someone else here knows him better than I do, which is at the 'acquaintance' level from commenting on his blog posts).

Very exciting, will have to look at my shelves and see if I can find a suitable series.

@Candiss - I had something about the tentative start date in the original message, but deleted it because I wanted to make sure we had enough time to hammer out the details. I was hoping we could get the nominations done in the next few weeks, then 2 rounds of polls, and then a few weeks to allow people to find and read the first book - so definitely not July, more likely August, possibly mid or late August.

@Jon - I've exchanged some emails with him over the years (he complimented me on some of my reviews of his works), so I could ask too. Despite the length of the series, I'd make it a point to read along because this is a series I've been meaning to read for years.

Stefan wrote: "@Candiss - I had something about the tentative start date in the original message, but deleted it because I wanted to make sure we had enough time to hammer out the details. I was hoping we could get the nominations done in the next few weeks, then 2 rounds of polls, and then a few weeks to allow people to find and read the first book - so definitely not July, more likely August, possibly mid or late August."

Ah, that sounds good (to me, at least.)

Additional note - if we go with our "one book per month" format again, I'd like to start each book in the middle of the month (e.g. the 15th) so we don't start our 2 Books of the Month AND the series book at the same time. If we go with a different format (e.g. X amount of chapters per week), it doesn't matter of course.

Starting mid-month sounds like a good idea.

Helen wrote: "Starting mid-month sounds like a good idea."

Agreed. It works well over at FBCS.

Yep. Wherever did you guys get that idea? :D

1. Helliconia Trilogy
Helliconia Spring is the first book.

2. Brian W. Aldiss
3. SF
4. Three
5. A fan of the books already, but all this recent "Game of Thrones" (HBO) and the "winter is coming" led me to think it was time to read this trilogy again - a planet with incredibly long seasons.
6. I could give it a try.

1. The Company Series (starts with In the Garden of Iden)
2. Kage Baker
3. SF
4. 8 (in the main sequence, though there are an additional 2 novels and 2 short story collections and 3 stand-alone novellas, but the short story collections & novellas are out of print and so likely ineligible for the group to read. So maybe a more accurate count would be 10)
5. Love the series and have been enjoying discussing book #1 with the group this month. :)
6. Maybe. . . though I'd prefer to be a co-discussion leader, because my life is kind of in flux right now (moving AND job searching) and I don't know how much time I'll be able to devote to the task later on.

I'd certainly love to do the Recluce series as I enjoyed the first book; having the author involved in the discussion would be icing on the cake...

1.The Legend of Drizzt
2.R.A. Salvatore
3.Fantasy
4.13 in The Legend of Drizzt, but 20 in the whole series now with 1 more coming out every fall. There are a lot of books in this series, but all of them again are realy short 300-400 page books, that are short popcorn books.
5. I love the books is for what Drizzt, the main character. Once a person reads the book, they feel so emotional connected with all the characters, especially Drizzt. He is one epic character and ride.
6. I would love to, these are my favorite books, it would be a dream come true to lead the disscussion.

If Dresden wins, I would love to be a co-leader with Maggie, I love these books as much as she does.

1. Honor Harrington
First book is On Basilisk Station
2. David Weber
3. Genre = SF
4. 12 books in the main series, with several spin-offs.
5. I read the first book a couple of months ago. I really enjoyed it, and would like to continue with the series. The books seem fairly short, so would fit nicely into the schedule for this group.
5. I would be willing to lead or co-lead the discussion if it wins.

Chris wrote: "1. Honor Harrington"

This series, or Recluce, will probably get my vote. (Not that my vote counts more than anyone else's - just saying what I'd be interested in reading and discussing!)

Also, Honor Harrington has the advantage that the e-books (along with many other Baen titles) are available online for free. (http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/)

Stefan wrote: "Chris wrote: "1. Honor Harrington"

This series, or Recluce, will probably get my vote. Honor Harrington has the advantage that the e-books (along with many other Baen titles) are available online ..."

I've been interested in this series for a while myself, and I don't normally "do" military sf. There's just something about the character that appeals to me in reviews...perhaps it's simply that I love the name Honor! (Hey...onomastic synchronicity works for me.)

I'm usually not big into military SF either, but it can be good, light entertainment. I've always been drawn to this series for some reason. Plus the short length of these books means I should be able to read along.

And now I have to consider if I want to nominate something myself, with already two other series vying for my vote...

Jon wrote: "1. The Saga of Recluce
2. L.E. Modesitt, Jr.

3. Fantasy / Epic Fantasy / backstory Science Fiction

4. Sixteen (16), with the first one recently re-issued in a special 20th anniversary edition...."

I did not know there was a 20th anniversary edition, thanks for telling me that come out today, plus there is also a limited edition coming out on August 31st.

Chris wrote: "1. Honor Harrington
First book is On Basilisk Station
2. David Weber
3. Genre = SF
4. 12 books in the main series, with several spin-offs.
5. I read the first book a cou..."

Darn it! Now I may not be able to vote for the series I nominated! :P

I've wanted to continue reading the Honor Harrington series after I read the first one two or three years ago.

Good sign of being in an interesting group: if someone nominates a book or series that makes you want to vote for their nomination rather than your own!

1. Chronicles of the Cheysuli
2. Jennifer Roberson
3. Fantasy
4. 8 (Currently in print as four omnibus editions of 2 books each)
5. I'm mostly nominating them for the purely selfish reason that I'd like to reread the series. I read it mostly as it came out in the 80s and would like to read it again. It wasn't well known, but I remember being very impressed with it
5. I'll do my very best to help lead the discussion

1 and 2. I would suggest the Alliance/Union books by C.J. Cherryh.
3. Solidly SF, grand space opera, some of it military but all political, from "Heavy Time" to "Rimrunners" (she includes many other novels and series in the same universe and timeline, but not in the Union/Alliance conflict). Not all are in print but widely available second-hand, and I believe any that are out of print are available at low cost on her website as e-books.
4. I read many but not all of these as they came out, and have been revisiting the series lately, becoming even more impressed with the grand conception of it. Some of the novels are quite short, others fairly long: "Cyteen" and "Regenesis" in particular might warrant a little extra reading time, but a month each for the other novels would probably be sufficient. (Sneaky subordinate nomination: A faster way to sample Cherryh might be to just read the "Chanur" series, five quite short novels.)
5. I would be happy to lead the discussion, or, the novels being fairly well-known, leadership could rotate, giving anyone a crack at a book they particularly love (or, of course, despise).

I'll second Cherryh's series - both of them in fact but perhaps a plus for the Chanur series. It may seem light but is really interesting. You don't often see the whole scheme of things through alien eyes, the reversal of gender role is well done and, best of best, there are no good guy/bad guy (it feels like a Chinese way of describing things : on the move, in the relations between people and not the people by themselves).

I would be willing to pitch in with being a discussion guide as needed for the Cherryh (Alliance/Union, though I don't really know the Chanur books) or Baker series, should those win (though I am also debating whether to nominate yet another series).

Alright, so I'll take that as one nomination for the Alliance/Union core series by Ron, and one for just the Chanur books by Helene. Okay?

Keep them coming folks!

Stefan wrote: "Alright, so I'll take that as one nomination for the Alliance/Union core series by Ron, and one for just the Chanur books by Helene. Okay?

Keep them coming folks!"

I can also help with the Chanur discussion, if you like,

I'm not going to nominate anything else new. I would love to participate in another series read but time is very limited with an infant in the house and I'm still 3 books behind on our last series read, which I'm determined to finish!

However, I would be willing to help lead the discussion for the Cheysuli series along with Kerry if it gets chosen - I can't even count the number of times I've read the series, it's one of my favorites :)

Any other nominations? Or ideas/suggestions regarding the discussion format? I'll leave this thread open for another few days and maybe set up the first round of the poll early next month.

I'm actually going to add a nomination myself:

1. the Dragaeran Cycle (also known as the Vlad Taltos series)
2. Steven Brust
3. Fantasy (mostly)
4. 13 in the main series, but there's also the Khaavren Romances (5 books) and the standalone Brokedown Palace. Since we discussed Brokedown Palace at some point in the past and its connection to the rest of the series is pretty vague, I'd suggest skipping it and just reading the main series and Khaavren Romances in order of publication.
5. It's one of my favorite fantasy series, about a human assassin (Vlad Taltos) who lives in the Dragaeran empire. Dragaerans look mostly human, except being considerably taller and having a much longer lifespan. They're divided in 17 noble houses, named after real or mythological animals, and often share some of the characteristics of their animals. Vlad is human but his father bought him a title in the house of Jhereg, which is more or less the crime syndicate in the Empire (and which means the Dragaerans look down on him for being human AND for being with the Jhereg).
The novels are short (usually around 300 pages) and quick reads. They're quite funny at times because Vlad is a very entertaining narrator. They focus both on Vlad's life and on his interactions with the Empire. The series is interesting in that the books internal chronology doesn't correspond to the order they were published in (e.g. the very first book, Jhereg, actually takes place quite late in the internal chronology) which means that reading each book fills in a new piece of the puzzle.
The Khaavren Romances are interesting in that they deal with what Vlad considers historical events (but because of the Dragaeran life span, they share some characters with the main series). They're also told by a different narrator, a writer of "historical romances" called Paarfi who kinda reads like Alexandre Dumas at his most verbose.
Another reason this makes a good series for discussion is that the early books in the main series are collected in a few omnibus editions (similar to the Vorkosigan series) so they're affordable and easy to find - plus you can often find the original, separate novels for very cheap in second hand stores.
5. I'd make an effort to read along and lead the discussion, as this is one of my favorite series ever.

Great - now there are 4 or 5 series I want to vote for. I love Vlad Taltos. Wow, everyone is making this choice really difficult (which is why I'm not nominating anything, myself.)

Question about the C.J. Cherryh noms: Is the Chanur series a subset/cycle of the Alliance/Union series? The series page for C.J. Cherryh just served to confuse me more, because there is no "Chanur" series listed, but I note that the first several novels of the A/U series have "Chanur" in their titles, AND there's the 5-book "Compact Space" series that has these same books. So, is it the Compact Space series that is referred to/nominated here as the Chanur series? Sorry, but perhaps I'm being dense...I just want to know what's on the table, because I've never read Cherryh and would like to!

Candiss wrote: "Great - now there are 4 or 5 series I want to vote for. I love Vlad Taltos. Wow, everyone is making this choice really difficult (which is why I'm not nominating anything, myself.)

Question abou..."
The Chanur series doesn't really belong to the Alliance/Union series. The lone human probably
comes from somewhere Alliance or Union (or worse the Mazian fleet!) but the two universes don't connect in the Chanur series. So these two series can be read independently. I'll check the "Compact" title and tell you. I never used it but I guess it might be a good title after all : there is a sort of compact between all the alien species in the Chanur series.

I just checked the series page for C.J. Cherryh and I agree : it is confusing. I'll try to be more precise than above. The Chanur/Compact series take place in the same physic universe that the U/A novels but are geographically very distant. That's why Tully is the only human of the Chanur series : this is a first contact story somehow. The development of the two series as it is now make them independent. Of course, one can better understand why the Human is so reticent to introduce his new friends to the joy of A/U politics when familiar with the other novels but it isn't a necessity to understand and enjoy the Chanur books.

I can't wait to vote. There are a few that I'm stupidly excited about :)

Oh wow...I love Vlad Taltos too....

I love that so many people have said they're going to have trouble deciding what to vote for. Means we have a solid lineup of nominations! I'll give it a few more days to see if any more nominations trickle in, and then start the polls in early July.

Darkover springs to mind, but I;m not sure it lives up to the level of the others

Darkover looks good, go ahead and nominate!

Stefan wrote: "I love that so many people have said they're going to have trouble deciding what to vote for. Means we have a solid lineup of nominations! ."

Yep. Twice I've checked in to possibly nominate a series, but then see something else I've been interested in reading, and just abstain. Voting will be tough.

Christine - I have really enjoyed what books in the Darkover universe I've read, and I love M.Z. Bradley. I agree with Helen and think it's a solid nomination.

Alrighty - then if someone (who hasn't nominated another series yet) can fill out the little 5 point questionnaire, I'll add it to the list. (In this case I really need it because I have no idea how many books there are - isn't it kind of a huge series?)

According to Darkover.com, there are 20-21 novels in the series (depending on how you count one book that was expanded and published again later.) The other books that show on the series page are omnibus editions of various cycles in the series and several anthologies with multiple authors writing "in the Darkover universe." (They also list publication order, chrono order, etc., and the info lines up with what I've found on other sites, too.)

I am not nominating the series myself, but I will offer to help lead the thing (should it win) if Christine (or someone else) wants to come back here and nominate and lead the discussion.